i'm sorry if my diff feels messy to you though, i'm open for criticism if you want to point something else out
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chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi
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Essa discussão foi tão desnecessária quanto o mod do Monstrata :/
Topic Starter
Monstrata wrote:
You're welcome to disagree. Maps that try to push the boundaries / go against the norms of the meta typically take a lot more effort to rank, but you're well aware of that.Yeah, even tho I don’t think there’s anything THAT spectacular NEW with any diff, sure I can’t rank this to celebrate anyones birthday.
My issue with many difficulties in this mapset is that you've executed these gimmicky and "creative" elements with no relation to anything standard or "normal" so there is no juxtaposition that allows these creative elements to shine. Because you’re going for a specific definition of “normal” mapping. You see, if I compare in a DJPop maps parts that are supposed to shine and parts that are not supposed do shine, I need to evaluate it differently if I were to mod one of your regular maps beucase the core used to structure the map is entirely different. Let me show you;
If a map is made on grid snap 1, fully DSed. The analisys of a part that is supposed to shine and parts that are not can’t be done with spacing concept. If visuals are also an element that’s null because of slider design limitation, the evaluation there should be on flow element, and that’s pretty straight forward if you compare how both of this plays;
https://puu.sh/y29Gk.jpg / https://puu.sh/y29Ia.jpg is pretty obvious on what is being more emphasized compared to the other one.
And that applies to any map that has an intensity component added to its composition;
In your maps for example, you have the same visual/flow in the entire map, so the only element that can be took into analysis as for the shine/non-shine thing is spacing;
Non-kiai
http://puu.sh/y29N7.jpg /
Kiai
https://puu.sh/y29RT.jpg
And that can be took into account in any map of any level of difficulty. HOWEVER you’re generically pointing that the diffs don’t have that contrast but you never mentioned that IN THE MOD itself.
On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently. It's unfortunately, because many of the mappers in this set seem to know their way around the editor. But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in. There are a lot of "oh this is cool" moments that turn into "wait why is it like this now?" two seconds after because you shift to a different pattern, or a different approach. This set to me, showcases mappers with good potential who are biting off more than they can chew by trying to introduce and set up too many creative components. This entire paragraph is just rethoric argumentation. “On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently.” Saying there’s no substance means nothing. It’s just personal criticism, it’s just like a line a movie critic would say about a specific acting of a person in a movie for example.
“But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in.” really? So you think that Mirash map suddenly becomes another map midway? If that was the case would be really simple to point that out; “Yo Mirash your map up until the second verse is one thing, when you start mapping the bridge of the song and chorus you’re totally using different stuff” Another element is that EACH diff is different. So each diff has its own concepts to be “tying them in.. Shizuku- with the reading/stack aspect, Mirash diff with flow, Bariton diff with its overlap visual, etc. And AGAIN, you didn’t mentioned in the mod where it was off, when any of the diffs just didn’t implement something accordingly.
If you want to improve your map, ask yourself why you've deviated from the "expected/standard" way of mapping for a particular element or pattern. If your answer is something along the lines of "i want to make it different" then reconsider your reasoning. If your answer is "I want to highlight X" (X being a particular instrument, the pitch, the rhythm, the emphasis, etc...) then keep. You’re assuming now that we don’t know what we’re doing because you QUICKLLY checked the diffs and couldn’t grasp it, so now it’s our fault? Even tho we did mapped accordingly to what you’re saying? Quick example
Mirash diff; 00:20:854 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) – why would you map this with straight lines and on the next section 00:23:322 (1,2,3,4,5) – make a square?! Oh that’s because the map uses a straight visual, and to make distinction of the two different measures 00:21:993 - ~ 00:22:942 - / 00:23:322 - ~ 00:24:272 -. Spacing and flow changed accordingly, also avoid the linear repetition with the song change, there’s a symmetrical patterning build here 00:24:272 (1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1) – instead of the previous free-hand design, etc, etc.
If a modder doesn’t understand a certain idea in the map, he should ASK about it. Not assume the mapper doesn’t know what he’s doing.
But then ask yourself "If i want to highlight X using method Y, do I really need to highlight X using method Z, A, B, C, D, E, F as well?" (Methods being "flow break, spacing changes, linear flow, overlaps, stacks etc....)" And hopefully your answer will be "No", or in rare cases"Yes, but only because method Y and Z relate very well to each other."
Again you didn’t ask yourself that when you modded my diff for example; you modded this section 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) – and all you could see was the visual element of it to justify its existence, but failed to notice the fact that every single object 00:18:575 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) – is upwards compared to 00:18:765 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2) – and also failed to question yourself WHY only 00:21:044 (2) – and 00:22:942 (1) – are the exception of that rule. That also applies to other concepts such as spacing, why is this group 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) – contrast between spacing on 1-2 vs 2-1 difference bigger compared to 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - , or flow , why does this part flows linear 00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) – instead of angular like the previous 1-2. So yeah, I map using everything you’re saying.
Hope you understand my position better now. I watched the vod of you modding this map, I heard “Please don’t tell me this is bubbled”, I can already understand your position pretty clearly. But what I really think that comes up with all of this is how unwilling you were to mod the map in the first place. If you really didn’t want to mod this I gave you other options, also, you could just say “Hey I don’t like any of the songs you have currently, do you mind if I own you a mod on something else in the future?” . Because honestly, anything is better compared to a mod made with bad faith.
I've come to understand your perspective better, so I'm not as afraid to put a veto. But I probably won't unless you find some random BN to yolo bubble this. “Random BN”so you find the memes towards you offensive, but saying that there are BNs who are random and BNs who are not random is not offensive when EVERY single BN is an important part of the BNG is not offensive…
Best of luck ranking this map ^^.
This was the most helpful mod that this mapset has received to date. Thank you!Monstrata wrote:
Mun's Expert
00:06:992 (1,2,3) - Why the sudden change in structure here? I don't see much of a change in structure here at all, aside from that which the music merits as it transitions into the next section.
00:11:360 (3,4) - Why stack? :S that would be because i am bad
00:21:044 (5,6) - Why the huge 1/4 jump here xp see above
00:25:980 (1,4) - Can you not overlap? lmao u got it
00:35:854 (3,4,5) - This just looks bad cuz its a different visual structure compared to just an object before. Two competing grid structures end up causing structural inconsistenties Thanks for the input! I'd like more feedback on whether the change is acceptable if possible, though
00:47:626 (2,3,4) - Why are they so close together they touch like that xd. your cs is high enough xd unclosened
00:49:525 (3,1) - Looks off visually xP make more symmetrical or something. symmetricized
lol xd lol
You guys are trying too hard to be creative, but there is no baseline "standard mapping" to deviate from though. The issue with making everything creative is, if there is nothing to deviate from, it doesn't come across as unique or special, just different. Look at Shizuku's approach if you want a good idea of how to properly implement creative elements.
xd
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meh monstrata isnt wrong in the mod
i think most of the mappers' efforts in this set r trying to be 2 creative which led them to obscure the image of their own map
i think most of the mappers' efforts in this set r trying to be 2 creative which led them to obscure the image of their own map
@mun
small point but have you considered moving all of 00:25:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - to the right a bit, lets you space out 00:27:120 (5) - which would help make it look not so different from the other 1/4 gaps (something like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9352907)
01:01:107 (1,2,3) - I also think this is a bit overspaced in context with the rest of the map, its part of the transition so i dont think it needs this big emphasis
@mirash
00:21:423 (1,2,3,4) - these doubles make no sense to me at all, i cant hear what they're supposed be following. if its an overmap...im not really understanding that either
small point but have you considered moving all of 00:25:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - to the right a bit, lets you space out 00:27:120 (5) - which would help make it look not so different from the other 1/4 gaps (something like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9352907)
01:01:107 (1,2,3) - I also think this is a bit overspaced in context with the rest of the map, its part of the transition so i dont think it needs this big emphasis
@mirash
00:21:423 (1,2,3,4) - these doubles make no sense to me at all, i cant hear what they're supposed be following. if its an overmap...im not really understanding that either
top diff:
00:25:411 - ... why did you ignore this beat? i cannot fathom a reason for why this is ignored. Can you explain this?
(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)
00:25:411 - ... why did you ignore this beat? i cannot fathom a reason for why this is ignored. Can you explain this?
(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)
I too was there for Monstrata's stream and while he may not have gone start to finish on every diff, there are like a dozens diffs on this set so it still ended up costing an hour of his time to go over what he did.
I'm usually a fan of edgy mapping (hanzer x irre eastbound & down is one of my favorites) but when the tone of the song itself is the exact opposite of edgy it has the same cringe feeling as a bunch of middle schoolers trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.
This is just a first impression (opinion) from seeing the maps on his stream so take it as you will (though I do hope you at least take a moment to ask yourself why it had to be this song that you mapped like this).
I'm usually a fan of edgy mapping (hanzer x irre eastbound & down is one of my favorites) but when the tone of the song itself is the exact opposite of edgy it has the same cringe feeling as a bunch of middle schoolers trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.
This is just a first impression (opinion) from seeing the maps on his stream so take it as you will (though I do hope you at least take a moment to ask yourself why it had to be this song that you mapped like this).
Imho I see you as quite an inexperienced mapper (dw I suck too) and whenever someone critisizes one of your maps, or just don't agree with certain aspects, you get really defensive and start bringing up loads of other maps in retaliation, and that doesn't really help much. I think if you were to truly take a step back with some humility, try out a few things other modders have brought up, you'd go a long way, not just improving your individual maps but also improving as a mapper as well
why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
do i really have to read all of this stuff... 
EDIT: Alright so, cleaned the thread a bit. Please no more memes here.
Don't make a drama out of something that didn't really look like it in the first place really. People can make arguments but at the end they are helping improving maps by modding. Both sides should just be more clear with their suggestions and answers alongisde memeing a lot less.
EDIT: Alright so, cleaned the thread a bit. Please no more memes here.
Don't make a drama out of something that didn't really look like it in the first place really. People can make arguments but at the end they are helping improving maps by modding. Both sides should just be more clear with their suggestions and answers alongisde memeing a lot less.
its sad that half of you guys cant stand a meme about monstrata´s mod...
but at the same time the other half cant stand a silly opinion about how the map starts
/4D_chess_starts
but at the same time the other half cant stand a silly opinion about how the map starts
/4D_chess_starts
Because mapping basic stuff is boring and not originalSnowNiNo_ wrote:
why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
Monstrata wrote:
Shizuku's Extra
00:10:791 (1,1) - Stacks Whoops, no one saw that one
00:25:411 - Don't understand why you dont map this. But i can understand every other part. it's just here theres also the insturment didn't feel the need to add a note since I mostly follow the percussion instruments
This is great. This is how you should map a gimmick honestly. There are overlapping/stacking/hard to read patterns but they are really well integrated. you have a baseline that is "normal" mapping so when you switch to sections that are different, they feel unique and special. Good job! Coming from you, it's a really nice thing to say. Considering for the past 2 years, you hated my mapping style since it didn't make sense at all. It's good to see that comment from you because that's when I know that I improved on mapping, even though it took so long to do so.
Thanks for modding!
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284,59,76866,2,0,L|174:68,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
255,294,77246,5,2,0:0:0:0:
284,59,77436,1,8,0:0:0:0:
255,294,77626,1,2,0:0:0:0:
284,59,77816,5,6,0:0:0:0:
270,177,78006,1,2,0:0:0:0:
255,294,78196,1,8,0:0:0:0:
284,59,78385,5,6,0:0:0:0:
284,59,78765,5,2,0:0:0:0:
270,177,78955,1,8,0:3:0:0:
270,177,79145,1,4,3:0:0:0:
442,44,79335,6,0,B|360:27|364:74|282:57,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
179,66,79715,2,0,P|227:50|283:58,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,80094,5,0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,80284,1,2,0:0:0:0:
255,294,80474,1,8,0:0:0:0:
179,66,80664,6,0,B|155:51|155:51|162:130,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,81044,2,0,B|418:118|418:118|346:85,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
229,285,81423,2,0,B|228:313|228:313|292:267,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,81803,5,2,0:0:0:0:
179,66,81993,2,0,L|189:185,1,107.999996704102,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,82373,2,0,P|327:117|371:181,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
471,105,82753,5,8,0:0:0:0:
286,56,82942,2,0,L|174:65,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
80,182,83322,5,2,0:0:0:0:
229,285,83512,1,8,0:0:0:0:
178,65,83702,6,0,B|138:49|98:65|98:65|118:49,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
343,181,84082,2,0,B|376:154|383:111|383:111|386:137,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
160,265,84461,1,2,0:0:0:0:
160,265,84556,1,8,0:0:0:0:
160,265,84651,6,0,B|166:307|200:334|200:334|176:324,1,107.999996704102,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
178,65,85031,5,8,0:3:0:0:
178,65,85411,6,0,B|240:32|304:64|304:64|280:93,1,161.999995056153,12|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
185,168,85791,2,0,P|170:117|178:64,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
385,136,86170,5,8,0:0:0:0:
185,168,86360,1,2,0:0:0:0:
372,261,86550,1,8,0:0:0:0:
175,323,86740,6,0,B|151:338|151:338|158:259,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,261,87120,2,0,B|396:276|396:276|389:197,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
202,104,87499,2,0,B|178:89|178:89|185:168,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
200,376,87879,5,2,0:0:0:0:
366,261,88069,1,8,0:0:0:0:
202,104,88259,1,2,0:0:0:0:
83,298,88449,5,8,0:0:0:0:
366,261,88639,1,2,0:0:0:0:
80,182,88829,5,8,0:0:0:0:
363,145,89018,1,2,0:0:0:0:
200,376,89208,5,8,0:0:0:0:
178,65,89398,1,2,0:0:0:0:
477,120,89588,5,8,0:0:0:0:
80,179,89778,6,0,B|126:202|173:188|173:188|141:198|125:232,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
125,231,90158,5,2,0:0:0:0:
310,116,90348,2,0,L|198:106,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
388,196,90727,5,8,0:0:0:0:
125,231,90917,1,2,0:0:0:0:
389,284,91107,1,8,0:0:0:0:
440,267,91202,1,8,0:0:0:0:
440,213,91297,1,8,0:0:0:0:
388,196,91392,1,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,91487,5,4,1:0:0:0:
125,231,91866,5,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,92056,1,0,0:0:0:0:
125,231,92436,5,0,0:0:0:0:
241,235,92626,1,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,92816,1,4,0:0:0:0:
125,231,93196,5,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,93385,1,8,0:0:0:0:
125,231,93575,5,0,0:0:0:0:
125,231,93955,5,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,94145,1,0,0:0:0:0:
241,235,94335,1,8,0:0:0:0:
200,376,94525,5,4,0:0:0:0:
203,107,94904,5,8,0:0:0:0:
200,376,95094,1,0,0:0:0:0:
203,107,95474,5,8,0:0:0:0:
201,241,95664,1,8,0:0:0:0:
200,376,95854,5,0,0:0:0:0:
203,107,96234,1,0,0:0:0:0:
357,240,96423,1,8,0:0:0:0:
201,241,96613,1,0,0:0:0:0:
45,240,96993,5,8,0:0:0:0:
201,241,97183,1,0,0:0:0:0:
201,241,97373,1,0,0:0:0:0:
124,106,97563,1,0,0:0:0:0:
@Hobbes2 if you listen closely, sounds in music start at 00:21:423 (1) - and end on 00:21:803 (4) - while it could be a stream because of strong tomb, i find the way doublets represent that sounds more appropriate here, if i'm not a total retard. i might change it though, if someone actually will convince me with something more than WHYWHYWHYitIsOvermap
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks
tbh i really can't understand doubles here too, even if i listen closely i don't get it. moving 3 at the white tick would make much more sense to meMirash wrote:
@Hobbes2 if you listen closely, sounds in music start at 00:21:423 (1) - and end on 00:21:803 (4) - while it could be a stream because of strong tomb, i find the way doublets represent that sounds more appropriate here, if i'm not a total retard. i might change it though, if someone actually will convince me with something more than WHYWHYWHYitIsOvermap
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks
also
01:16:297 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - i knew overmap with sliderend were allowed but this stream is completely out of place
01:24:461 (7,1) - also here ?? but you ignore the existing 1/4s to completely overmap inexisting sounds ?
01:25:411 (5) - nc pls
when did this become a thing ? thoses streams emphasize or express nothing in the song, i don't get it, why is this even a thingNet0 wrote:
while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms
also ppl here getting triggered easily, don't take this offensively, i'm out already do what you want
@Shizuku rly nice diff
I've never been mapping just to make every circle sense btw maybe not a good thing to tell someone what to do by your words >u<
p.s. my post with the fixed .osu is deleted holy shit
p.s. my post with the fixed .osu is deleted holy shit
Agree with Nino here..Jounzan wrote:
Because mapping basic stuff is boring and not originalSnowNiNo_ wrote:
why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
If you guys really want to be original just make original maps on original songs. But this is just my opinion tho.
I remember modded this and yeah shizuku reflected this song really well with his mapping. The rest is good but like trying too hard to be creative ends up random gimmicks and doesn't fit.
Anyway good luck with this
Delis wrote:
>u<
I mean this thread is lol. Would it work as a something worth discussion if i come to a random map thread and say something like "this map is too generic and it doesnt fits the song"? Can you quit this nonsence, and instead point everyhing you find unfittig by examples, because saying u pepel try two hard to be creative and song doesnt support it is straight retarded in case why on earth you think people will agree with your opinions when obviously liking other kind of stuff than you do lol im mad
That was my bad! Restored.Delis wrote:
I've never been mapping just to make every circle sense btw maybe not a good thing to tell someone what to do by your words >u<
p.s. my post with the fixed .osu is deleted holy shit
--nostalgic diff
00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - xd
this basically has 0 sense and doesn't hint at anything coming into the map, the song doesn't even change here so I assume you had a missclick and moved the circles a little bit too far so maybe fix?
you emphasize 00:32:056 (1) with distance - but not 00:31:297 (1) - or 00:32:816 (1) - or 00:33:765 (1) -
00:42:879 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:45:917 (1) - ^
00:36:803 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this feels honestly so weird to play and hear , why not map only voice or instrumentals ? ;f this is just an opinion tho
not sure what happend to the map past 1 minute
this is on the maps front page btw
00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - xd
this basically has 0 sense and doesn't hint at anything coming into the map, the song doesn't even change here so I assume you had a missclick and moved the circles a little bit too far so maybe fix?
you emphasize 00:32:056 (1) with distance - but not 00:31:297 (1) - or 00:32:816 (1) - or 00:33:765 (1) -
00:42:879 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:45:917 (1) - ^
00:36:803 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this feels honestly so weird to play and hear , why not map only voice or instrumentals ? ;f this is just an opinion tho
not sure what happend to the map past 1 minute
...right no wonder mapping meta sucks nice mentality you got thereNet0 wrote:
but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.
this is on the maps front page btw
Topic Starter
VINXIS wrote:
meh monstrata isnt wrong in the mod
i think most of the mappers' efforts in this set r trying to be 2 creative which led them to obscure the image of their own map
chainpullz wrote:
I too was there for Monstrata's stream and while he may not have gone start to finish on every diff, there are like a dozens diffs on this set so it still ended up costing an hour of his time to go over what he did.
I'm usually a fan of edgy mapping (hanzer x irre eastbound & down is one of my favorites) but when the tone of the song itself is the exact opposite of edgy it has the same cringe feeling as a bunch of middle schoolers trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.
This is just a first impression (opinion) from seeing the maps on his stream so take it as you will (though I do hope you at least take a moment to ask yourself why it had to be this song that you mapped like this).
You guys do know that any personal comments about me as a mapper are totally irrelevant right? You can think whatever you want, as long as you're not discussing the map itself, I don't care. So in case you case you want to comment anything about any diff, that's what you should do. Like Linada doesn't agree with a specific concept used in one of the diffs, that's how you make you point. Not generically saying "yo you're not hanzer!", "you're inexperienced", "you can't map this song in x-y way of mapping, this song can only be done with z mapping, etc" this are not valid points because you're just pointing out your own personal perspectives about mapping itself or me as a mapper rather than discussing the mapset, which is the goal of this thread.Kisses wrote:
Imho I see you as quite an inexperienced mapper (dw I suck too) and whenever someone critisizes one of your maps, or just don't agree with certain aspects, you get really defensive and start bringing up loads of other maps in retaliation, and that doesn't really help much. I think if you were to truly take a step back with some humility, try out a few things other modders have brought up, you'd go a long way, not just improving your individual maps but also improving as a mapper as well
1- The reason all of you prefer Shizuku-'s diff I already explained before in the reply of Monstrata (which seems that he would rather just ignore) But I'll explain again even tho I might sound too pretentious.Sotarks wrote:
If you guys really want to be original just make original maps on original songs. But this is just my opinion tho.
ANY song can be mapped in multiple different ways, and that's something most ppl should realize long ago. Do you want examples? Okay I'll drop a few maps of the same song that ARE mapped in completelly and entirelly different ways;
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/376552 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/440068
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55925 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55115
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/479470 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/12327
And recently my favorite example of that contrast
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/16440 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/618290
All of this maps with you take into account what elements were made differently, which concepts were adopted and which weren't will show that it's up to the mapper how they want to design their maps, and the variety of the insane diffs here only show how that is true, even for a song like Natsukoi Hanabi that tradicionally is considered pp.
This summons up my point.Jounzan wrote:
I mean this thread is lol. Would it work as a something worth discussion if i come to a random map thread and say something like "this map is too generic and it doesnt fits the song"? Can you quit this nonsence, and instead point everyhing you find unfittig by examples, because saying u pepel try two hard to be creative and song doesnt support it is straight retarded in case why on earth you think people will agree with your opinions when obviously liking other kind of stuff than you do lol im mad
[/b]
Xexxar wrote:
top diff:
00:25:411 - ... why did you ignore this beat? i cannot fathom a reason for why this is ignored. Can you explain this?(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)One object mentioned = yeah not ready for rank. Good old Xexxar :3Net0 wrote:
00:25:411 - Why isn't this mapped tho lol... It's a piano sound with no percussion; Also there's a rhythm construction here; 00:24:651 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - first you have the gap idea that should come up with all groups 00:24:651 (1,2) - /00:25:220 (3,4) - /00:25:980 (1,2) - /00:26:740 (1,2) - second, you have an increasing singletap objects groupíng from 2 00:25:031 (2,3) - to 3 00:25:601 (4,5,1,2,3,1) - to 400:27:120 (2,3,4,1) - which helps building up a bit more of tension in this section
Topic Starter
Nice sarcasm, but don't quote me without the full context of it;rakuenslove wrote:
--nostalgic diff
you emphasize 00:32:056 (1) with distance - but not 00:31:297 (1) - or 00:32:816 (1) - or 00:33:765 (1) -
00:42:879 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:43:449 (1) - 00:45:917 (1) - ^
You're comparing 3 distinct sounds there; the object emphasized with distance there is this one 00:32:056 (1) - as you said it has bigger spacing so the similar one is also spaced emphasized right here 00:30:727 (1) - , even tho leniency makes this a bit less spacing intense 00:30:348 (3) - they're still similar, you can't compare those to 00:31:297 (1) - /00:32:816 (1) - they're similar but if you check the pattern you can notice I treated them differently. Also 00:33:196 (1,1) - saying this 1/4 gap is not emphasized is just lol
00:36:803 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this feels honestly so weird to play and hear , why not map only voice or instrumentals ? ;f this is just an opinion tho
Sliders for dense vocal lines and circles to keep the rhythm along percussion? fuan ni naru kedo all are mapped with sliders and since the "do" line is bigger and mapped a reverse slider to change the flow since I'd use sliders for percussion afterwards 00:38:892 (1,2,1,1) - that's also the reason I changed combo colors there.
00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - xd
this basically has 0 sense and doesn't hint at anything coming into the map, the song doesn't even change here so I assume you had a missclick and moved the circles a little bit too far so maybe fix?
not sure what happend to the map past 1 minute
Wow posting pishifat video as argument, let's see if you watched the video and really mod the map accordingly;
spacing with jumps: spacing shouldn't be random, and must be according to the songs intensity;
More intense section 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - with 00:18:765 (2,1) - having bigger spacing compared to 00:18:955 (1,2) - compared to 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - with less contrast between the intensity of 1-2 connections to 2-1, so the spacing is accordingly, repeated element 00:20:094 (1,2,1,2) - when the song repeats itself
visuals with jumps; 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - highlight and observe, try to understand before getting all sarcastic
flow with jumps; "By continuosly using one type of flow throught one section of the song jumps can represent that section's repeated elements, and when the song change, flow change as well;
00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - snap/angular flow with increasing and decreasing spacing according to the hitsounding/music interpretation
00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - Linear motion with wide angles and a bit of a decreased spacing
There's also an element he didn't mention in the video;
positioning with jumps; objects with bigger contrast between 1-2 and 2-1 spacing are on the edges of the playfield while the ones with smaller are more on the middle 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - , objects with snare are upwards compared to the ones that are not, etc......right no wonder mapping meta sucks nice mentality you got thereNet0 wrote:
but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.
this is on the maps front page btw
I didn't change anything but thanks for the mod.Net0 wrote:
Monstrata wrote:
Uhh I really can't agree with how you map this lmao... I feel that way about a lot of maps out there, but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.
ouçam os bn gente, nenhum deles tão dizendo isso pra atacar
é pra ajudar
é pra ajudar
Topic Starter
Ué, eu to dando reply normalmente nos mods que chegaram na thread x.xNecroluttah wrote:
ouçam os bn gente, nenhum deles tão dizendo isso pra atacar
é pra ajudar
Meu amor por Necro é demais <3
Mas vc tem que dizer a outras pessoas para nao spammar o thread, Net0...
Muito amor de mim, meninos
Mas vc tem que dizer a outras pessoas para nao spammar o thread, Net0...
Muito amor de mim, meninos
why did i waste my time you dont even understand. shame. other diffs are super nice tho
Topic Starter
You post a mod full of sarcasmrakuenslove wrote:
why did i waste my time you dont even understand. shame. other diffs are super nice tho
I reply everything posted trying my best to make everything clear with how I've done stuff
You proceed to say I didn't understand the mod and say you wasted your time without mentioning anything regarding the reply...
...
..
.
there are 3 general portions in the song (Beggining of it) that gradually increase which I hope we can agree on,
first starting at 00:18:575 (1) -
second at 00:19:335 (1) -
third at 00:21:613 (1) -
the way you map is you choose to pick a spacing in the middle of the first jump sequence 00:18:765 (2,1) - that is basically equal/bigger to the 3rd sequence
essentially overshadowing the 2nd sequence 00:19:715 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
the player should have a feeling of increasing difficulty along with the song and not a feeling of relief after passing 00:18:765 (2,1) - knowing that the 2nd sequence is bassically half spacing.
but the main point that I specified in my mod is that you choose to build up the 3rd sequence(which becomes the general type of linear jump in your map) using weirdly spaced 1-2s that do not appear in the map anymore, which would be okay if this part of the song was unique , but its not.
maybe visually it looks cute but that's not all there is.
it simply doesn't reflect the song properly and it doesn't feel consistent and I hope you make some sort of change, I don't want another explanation of your map. you already explained these parts over and over... try to be a bit objective.
i could understand weird spacings in this part of the map if they somehow reflected,hinted the end of the map. but they are completely different except that stream, props on it altho you should change its angle a bit
first starting at 00:18:575 (1) -
second at 00:19:335 (1) -
third at 00:21:613 (1) -
the way you map is you choose to pick a spacing in the middle of the first jump sequence 00:18:765 (2,1) - that is basically equal/bigger to the 3rd sequence
essentially overshadowing the 2nd sequence 00:19:715 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
the player should have a feeling of increasing difficulty along with the song and not a feeling of relief after passing 00:18:765 (2,1) - knowing that the 2nd sequence is bassically half spacing.
but the main point that I specified in my mod is that you choose to build up the 3rd sequence(which becomes the general type of linear jump in your map) using weirdly spaced 1-2s that do not appear in the map anymore, which would be okay if this part of the song was unique , but its not.
maybe visually it looks cute but that's not all there is.
it simply doesn't reflect the song properly and it doesn't feel consistent and I hope you make some sort of change, I don't want another explanation of your map. you already explained these parts over and over... try to be a bit objective.
i could understand weird spacings in this part of the map if they somehow reflected,hinted the end of the map. but they are completely different except that stream, props on it altho you should change its angle a bit
Topic Starter
Thanks again for mod ^^rakuenslove wrote:
there are 3 general portions in the song (Beggining of it) that gradually increase which I hope we can agree on,
first starting at 00:18:575 (1) -
second at 00:19:335 (1) -
third at 00:21:613 (1) -
the way you map is you choose to pick a spacing in the middle of the first jump sequence 00:18:765 (2,1) - that is basically equal/bigger to the 3rd sequence
essentially overshadowing the 2nd sequence 00:19:715 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
the player should have a feeling of increasing difficulty along with the song and not a feeling of relief after passing 00:18:765 (2,1) - knowing that the 2nd sequence is bassically half spacing.
but the main point that I specified in my mod is that you choose to build up the 3rd sequence(which becomes the general type of linear jump in your map) using weirdly spaced 1-2s that do not appear in the map anymore, which would be okay if this part of the song was unique , but its not.
maybe visually it looks cute but that's not all there is.
it simply doesn't reflect the song properly and it doesn't feel consistent and I hope you make some sort of change, I don't want another explanation of your map. you already explained these parts over and over... try to be a bit objective.
i could understand weird spacings in this part of the map if they somehow reflected,hinted the end of the map. but they are completely different except that stream, props on it altho you should change its angle a bit
Now you're modding.
- I made changes on; 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - the spacing was reduced to that it won't overshadow 00:19:715 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - as the version before was, but I really want to keep the contrast between 1-2 for 2-1 bigger compared to the afterwards section. Also repositioned 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - to improve readability since I stacked the previous pattern with it.
- "using weirdly spaced 1-2s that do not appear in the map anymore" They're the core of the mapping itself, they appear in the kiai a lot, but indeed comparing the initial jump section 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - to the last one 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) - there's a distinct amount of linear flow, being drastically reduced, so I'll make the last part have more linear sections; currently there's this 90º part 01:27:689 (1,2,3,4) - which kinda falls on the ambiguous side of wheter ppl snap or make smooth motion and this 120º 01:29:398 (1,2,3) - , but I'm also now making the star here 01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - flow with linear motion, adding a bit more of consistency between the two sections.
- Since I changed the star flow, I also had to re-work the stream 01:31:107 (1,2,3,4,1) - to fit the flow better.
Hi Net0~
Nostalgic Festival:
~Good luck!
- 00:06:423 (1,2,3) - : I was curious about this unexpected wide spacing comparing these 00:00:348 (1,2,3) - , 00:03:385 (1,2,3) - .The piano rhythm isn't changing at all except the calm melody from behind, so yeah, could you explain this spacing for this specific part?In my opinion, you should keep the same spacing concept for these piano sounds like in the beginning.The background rhythm change is too quiet to modify piano sounds' spacing.
- 00:09:461 (1) - : Ctrl + G'ing this slider itself gives a better motion in my opinion.
- 00:21:234 (1,2,1,2) - : Well, using the ''right to left'' motion twice in a row is too harsh.It ruins the whole natural movement of going to ''zig zag'' mode.Why don't try Ctrl + H'ing this whole part 00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - ?It will a make a nice circular flow instead.
- 00:36:234 (8) - : This distance from the slider is quiet big and uncomfortable for this kind of a lower tone vocal.For example, you could stack it on the slidertail of 00:35:284 (5) - .
- 00:48:386 (8) - : Same thing.
- 00:50:284 (5,6) - : This doesn't sound very nice.It may follow somehow the vocal's held duration but it's still weird.You could do two things;You can simply Ctrl + G them ,which im more fan of this option, or, you can delete the slider and add a circle here 00:50:664 - .Both of these ways are better in my opinion than your choice of mapping a circle + slider.
- 01:00:727 (1) - : Why so low slider velocity?0,50 SV totally underemphasizes the vocals' tone change.The vocals are completely different and lively here.I would definitely recommend you to change the slider velocity to 1,0.
- 01:12:310 (1) - : Really harsh SV change, the player will definetely sliderbreak this.
- 01:09:651 (4,5) comparing 01:21:803 (6,7) - : Could you explain me this huge spacing difference behind the second part?I really wonder
- 01:27:689 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,1,2) - : Very, very very hard to aim.Could you nerf them a bit?
~Good luck!
Topic Starter
Nikakis wrote:
Hi Net0~
- 00:06:423 (1,2,3) - : I was curious about this unexpected wide spacing comparing these 00:00:348 (1,2,3) - , 00:03:385 (1,2,3) - .The piano rhythm isn't changing at all except the calm melody from behind, so yeah, could you explain this spacing for this specific part?In my opinion, you should keep the same spacing concept for these piano sounds like in the beginning.The background rhythm change is too quiet to modify piano sounds' spacing."The piano rhythm isn't changing at all except the calm melody from behind" you already figured the reason, the rhythm itself didn't change, but song intensity did increase.
- 00:09:461 (1) - : Ctrl + G'ing this slider itself gives a better motion in my opinion. It does, but I'm not going for a confotable motion; the fact is that the slider there is unconfortable for the song change on 00:09:461 (1) - since that's when percussion starts. Basically it's most of the time uncortable moviment or high spacing for transitions; 00:18:196 (5,1) - /00:24:082 (6,1) - /00:38:132 (6,7,1) - etc
- 00:21:234 (1,2,1,2) - : Well, using the ''right to left'' motion twice in a row is too harsh.It ruins the whole natural movement of going to ''zig zag'' mode.Why don't try Ctrl + H'ing this whole part 00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - ?It will a make a nice circular flow instead. I did some re-work on this section,
I was also kinda tilted a bit with it as it was after so many mod applications, so changed some stuff again to make it work more similar to how it was originally.- 00:36:234 (8) - : This distance from the slider is quiet big and uncomfortable for this kind of a lower tone vocal.For example, you could stack it on the slidertail of 00:35:284 (5) - .All right, I'll go with that ^^
- 00:48:386 (8) - : Same thing.
- 00:50:284 (5,6) - : This doesn't sound very nice.It may follow somehow the vocal's held duration but it's still weird.You could do two things;You can simply Ctrl + G them ,which im more fan of this option, or, you can delete the slider and add a circle here 00:50:664 - .Both of these ways are better in my opinion than your choice of mapping a circle + slider. Kinda hard to ctrol+g and keep the flow idea in the pattern, but hopefully fixed.
- 01:00:727 (1) - : Why so low slider velocity?0,50 SV totally underemphasizes the vocals' tone change.The vocals are completely different and lively here.I would definitely recommend you to change the slider velocity to 1,0.Did something to make it more overwhelming
- 01:12:310 (1) - : Really harsh SV change, the player will definetely sliderbreak this.well this is like something really special, and mostly SVs there are to follow and emphasize the vocal line which I perceived as the most important one in the entire song. It's a section players will have to read.
- 01:09:651 (4,5) comparing 01:21:803 (6,7) - : Could you explain me this huge spacing difference behind the second part?I really wonder
- 01:27:689 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,1,2) - : Very, very very hard to aim.Could you nerf them a bit?Nothing really extraordinary, just jumps imo.
~Good luck!
Thanks mod, and no, I repeat, this map is not a meme. :3
little irc mod
SPOILER
commit purpose only00:15 fabriciorby: achei q tem uns slider q dibra demaius
00:15 Net0: foi sim
00:15 Net0: opa
00:15 Net0: só falar
00:15 fabriciorby: perai
00:16 Net0: eita perai
00:16 fabriciorby: esse aqui dibra mas dps q passa ele ja da pra saber q o segundo é assim
00:16 fabriciorby: 00:33:196 (1) -
00:17 Net0: okay
00:17 fabriciorby: 01:11:930 (1) -
00:17 fabriciorby: esse aqui
00:17 fabriciorby: q eu achei q dibro mt
00:17 Net0: btfé
00:17 Net0: vou fazer assim
00:17 Net0: vou mudar esse aqui de lugar
00:18 Net0: 01:11:550 (1) -
00:18 Net0: mesmo que aumente o spacing
00:18 Net0: pra esse aqui ficar mais visivel
00:18 Net0: 01:11:930 (1) -
00:18 Net0: oq acha?
00:18 fabriciorby: 01:24:082 (1) -
00:18 fabriciorby: esse aqui é a msm coisa mas n dibra
00:18 fabriciorby: pq da pra ver o corpo entrando
00:19 fabriciorby: mas eu entendi q a ideia era deixar eles do msm tamanho msm
00:19 fabriciorby: e no outro n ta do mesmo tamanho
00:21 fabriciorby: mas eu n sei modar essa diff
00:22 Net0: Deixa eu te mostrar
00:22 Net0: https://puu.sh/y3YLX.png
00:22 Net0: ficou com aim mais difícil
00:22 Net0: so que melhorou a leitura
00:15 Net0: foi sim
00:15 Net0: opa
00:15 Net0: só falar
00:15 fabriciorby: perai
00:16 Net0: eita perai
00:16 fabriciorby: esse aqui dibra mas dps q passa ele ja da pra saber q o segundo é assim
00:16 fabriciorby: 00:33:196 (1) -
00:17 Net0: okay
00:17 fabriciorby: 01:11:930 (1) -
00:17 fabriciorby: esse aqui
00:17 fabriciorby: q eu achei q dibro mt
00:17 Net0: btfé
00:17 Net0: vou fazer assim
00:17 Net0: vou mudar esse aqui de lugar
00:18 Net0: 01:11:550 (1) -
00:18 Net0: mesmo que aumente o spacing
00:18 Net0: pra esse aqui ficar mais visivel
00:18 Net0: 01:11:930 (1) -
00:18 Net0: oq acha?
00:18 fabriciorby: 01:24:082 (1) -
00:18 fabriciorby: esse aqui é a msm coisa mas n dibra
00:18 fabriciorby: pq da pra ver o corpo entrando
00:19 fabriciorby: mas eu entendi q a ideia era deixar eles do msm tamanho msm
00:19 fabriciorby: e no outro n ta do mesmo tamanho
00:21 fabriciorby: mas eu n sei modar essa diff
00:22 Net0: Deixa eu te mostrar
00:22 Net0: https://puu.sh/y3YLX.png
00:22 Net0: ficou com aim mais difícil
00:22 Net0: so que melhorou a leitura
Topic Starter
We discussed this pattern; 00:32:816 (1,1,1) - was hard to read but predictable, but here 01:11:550 (1,1,1) - tho, difficulty wasn't balanced spacing/readability wise. It was decided that it was better to improve readability even if the spacing on the 1/4 gap was increased, since this also has a big spacing 01:23:702 (1,1,1) - for the 1/4 gap.fabriciorby wrote:
little irc modSPOILERcommit purpose only00:15 fabriciorby: achei q tem uns slider q dibra demaius
00:15 Net0: foi sim
00:15 Net0: opa
00:15 Net0: só falar
00:15 fabriciorby: perai
00:16 Net0: eita perai
00:16 fabriciorby: esse aqui dibra mas dps q passa ele ja da pra saber q o segundo é assim
00:16 fabriciorby: 00:33:196 (1) -
00:17 Net0: okay
00:17 fabriciorby: 01:11:930 (1) -
00:17 fabriciorby: esse aqui
00:17 fabriciorby: q eu achei q dibro mt
00:17 Net0: btfé
00:17 Net0: vou fazer assim
00:17 Net0: vou mudar esse aqui de lugar
00:18 Net0: 01:11:550 (1) -
00:18 Net0: mesmo que aumente o spacing
00:18 Net0: pra esse aqui ficar mais visivel
00:18 Net0: 01:11:930 (1) -
00:18 Net0: oq acha?
00:18 fabriciorby: 01:24:082 (1) -
00:18 fabriciorby: esse aqui é a msm coisa mas n dibra
00:18 fabriciorby: pq da pra ver o corpo entrando
00:19 fabriciorby: mas eu entendi q a ideia era deixar eles do msm tamanho msm
00:19 fabriciorby: e no outro n ta do mesmo tamanho
00:21 fabriciorby: mas eu n sei modar essa diff
00:22 Net0: Deixa eu te mostrar
00:22 Net0: https://puu.sh/y3YLX.png
00:22 Net0: ficou com aim mais difícil
00:22 Net0: so que melhorou a leitura
After apply the suggestion re-worked 01:23:702 (1,1) - and 01:00:727 (1,1) - for consistency both spacing wise and visual wise.
Thanks a lot for testing the map :3
Just giving an opinion not trying to start an in depth discussion. Maps like these aren't worth the effort.Net0 wrote:
(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)One object mentioned = yeah not ready for rank. Good old Xexxar :3
now it's a race of "which bn will turn a blind eye to top diff and bubble this" ResidentSleeper
Topic Starter
Yeah, we should spend more time mapping songs of games related to pedophilia, I'm totally in the wrong side here.Xexxar wrote:
Maps like these aren't worth the effort.
Jokes aside, I'll just repeat it once more, if you don't want to make MODS about anything related to any of the diffs, just meme and complain about the map in discord/twitter/reddit wherever you can find yourself a nice place to complain about things on the internet to make yourself feel better. HERE is not the place.
Also, saying "maps aren't worth the effort" only shows what a shitty mentality you have if you ever considered yourself a modder in the first place.
If you have any concerns about top diff feel free to drop a mod ^^[[Pika]] wrote:
now it's a race of "which bn will turn a blind eye to top diff and bubble this" ResidentSleeper
If you just don't like there isn't anything I can do about that, you have plenty of other maps out there that I'm sure fits your taste.