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chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi

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Topic Starter
Net0

Monstrata wrote:

Nostalgic Festival

00:00:348 (1) - Man, beginning the map at the corner of the screen is really bad for player positioning xP Especially mouse users.

Uhh I really can't agree with how you map this lmao... If you actually plan to make convincing changes to what i mentioned earlier, then you can poke me to mod the rest of the diff.

You guys are trying too hard to be creative, but there is no baseline "standard mapping" to deviate from though. The issue with making everything creative is, if there is nothing to deviate from, it doesn't come across as unique or special, just different.
I need sometime before replying this. It's so ilogic that I need to have a good rest before having enough patience for this...
Delis
Hola!

for this map I was mapping it to be someone's style that I really liked and so changing in the way that you suggested might break the concept but fixed all anyway so u all should chill out.

Gracias

https://delisha.s-ul.eu/CGhGQ9Sm
melloe
obviously the first thing he said about beginning a map in the corner is silly (mouse players can just restart and reposition, and honestly the corner is not that hard to reach in any situation, unless it's from another corner or if your area/dpi sucks), but if you can just get over that part then you'll see that he make a valid point

the jumps and distance spacing really make no sense with the music. the jumps are bizarrely emphasized and everything is sacrificed for the sake of a rigid gimmicky aesthetic principle. plus the map doesn't really have an identity, it seems to just be a large salad of visual ideas, and none of these ideas really have any relation to each other. which is what he means by saying "trying too hard to be creative." (that, and the song is as simple as they come, it really feels kind of unnatural to inject such a bounty of complex visual ideas into it, but that's more subjective)

im really not trying to rain on your parade, just offering my opinion
Bariton

Monstrata wrote:

Bariton's Insane

00:06:993 (3,1,2) - Why isn't this mapped with repeats too? the rhythm changes
00:13:639 (4,5) - Why is this a stack? Shouldn't you do a jump for the violin since you emphasize it with a jump other places ?00:13:069 (3) - 00:16:107 (2) -00:16:866 (1) - . fixed
00:18:006 (5) - The violin is suddenly mapped to a slider-end xP when you were mappign it to jumps for the 3 places i mentioned earlier fixed
00:26:740 (3) - I would recommend removing the repeat and mapping something on 00:27:310 - . but there's no strong sound in 00:27:310
00:35:854 (2,3) - Why is this stacked tho, theres a snare xP. 00:31:487 (3,4) - This is different from here? fixed
.
thanks!!
heyheyhey
osu file format v14

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Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Net0
Version:Bariton's Insane
Source:
Tags:sugar panoram a note summer festival fireworks chano Trynna Mun Bariton MkGuh Shizuku- Mirash Delis Ataraxia
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Topic Starter
Net0

Net0 wrote:

I need sometime before replying this. It's so ilogic that I need to have a good rest before having enough patience for this...
I'll probably apply 3 or 4 points mentioned about placement and emphasis, but rhythm suggestions I'm not really willing to change since I'm pretty confident with the circle rhythm adopted in the map and the sudden gaps to twist it.

I appreciate that you guys are trying to defend it, but sadly that way of doing is fun but not very polite, after all if a person is being rude and making jokes towards you, the reply shouldn't be of the same nature (even if he deserves that).

Thanks

Monstrata wrote:

Also I bookmarked this thread in case it ever gets bubbled ^^. Better let Net0 reply instead of trying to criticize my mod. I'm too good of a modder to care if the entire BR community doesn't agree, it just means your entire community is wrong.

#gangsta
#despacito
p.s: So you're gonna veto the map now for no reason?

Monstrata wrote:

You can't veto a map without hearing the other person's side first. What if they fix everything you considered an issue? Don't make this a repeat of Alien... A veto happens when you and the mapper are unable to agree on something.
Monstrata

Net0 wrote:

Net0 wrote:

I need sometime before replying this. It's so ilogic that I need to have a good rest before having enough patience for this...
I'll probably apply 3 or 4 points mentioned about placement and emphasis, but rhythm suggestions I'm not really willing to change since I'm pretty confident with the circle rhythm adopted in the map and the sudden gaps to twist it.

I appreciate that you guys are trying to defend it, but sadly that way of doing is fun but not very polite, after all if a person is being rude and making jokes towards you, the reply shouldn't be of the same nature (even if he deserves that).

Thanks

Monstrata wrote:

Also I bookmarked this thread in case it ever gets bubbled ^^. Better let Net0 reply instead of trying to criticize my mod. I'm too good of a modder to care if the entire BR community doesn't agree, it just means your entire community is wrong.

#gangsta
#despacito
p.s: So you're gonna veto the map now for no reason?

Monstrata wrote:

You can't veto a map without hearing the other person's side first. What if they fix everything you considered an issue? Don't make this a repeat of Alien... A veto happens when you and the mapper are unable to agree on something.
I probably won't veto. I've only had to veto what, one map ever? But I will like to read the opinions of BN's who support this map and at least discuss it a bit further before potential nominations, if I have the time. (Operate under the assumption I won't come back). If you find someone who genuinely supports this set, I won't try and stop you. There are some good diffs, Shizuku's especially.
Bariton
feel free to delete my diff if it's gonna be a drag to the set
Genjuro
cool map and awesome song! ;D!
Trynna
@Monstrata 00:15:537 (1,2) - nerfed the jump a bit. about more emphasis on 00:15:917 (2,3) -, as it's forcing a different movement from 00:15:537 (1,2) - i think it's pretty cool, as it's not that strong sound
01:00:348 (5,6) - I don't really get what you meant with 3/4 spacing at all but as this diff tries to say that stacked objects can be read as stacks without many trouble, the thing is no matter the spacing at all, and also it's pretty clear the pattern about making the spacing larger on 00:59:588 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -

rest fixed without many trouble i guess ??
thank

g
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Ephemeral
Can we not provoke people needlessly and also not post shitty misappropriated memes? That'd be great, thanks.
Mirash
00:05:664 (2) - i just don't like the feeling of two objects being clickable in a row in that case
00:06:993 (3) - i feel like it works well for introduction to the next part
00:17:721 (1) - it plays just like a doublet and average player of such diffs will play it just fine i think
00:21:423 (1,2,3,4) - they fit in bell sounds and red ticks are highlighted better this way
00:25:031 (1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - if you listen to that two circles at right side they are mapped to a strong drums that are also at the right side, and the rest is just 1-2-3 pattern that i think fits nicely without emphasizing every strong beats
00:30:158 (1,2,1,1,2) - well, kinda agree at this point, reduced spacings
01:07:183 - 01:13:829 - just why... what?

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Doguu
I literally uploaded a map a couple days ago where I tried to make a corner note feel appropriate even when in the beginning/at rest points where cursor should be in a neutral rest position in the middle of the screen by making the slider body go outward or in a direction that compliments the flow of jolting from the center of the screen to the corner. No I don't think it's an unrankable issue but yes I do feel it's a valid point to bring up in a mod. It just seems like an instant retry for first time plays. There was little harm to it being brought up because the point of the mod was to give ideas to improve the map. This is just an idea... Calm down ya memes xd lel :p crucify me.
Topic Starter
Net0

Monstrata wrote:

Nostalgic Festival

00:00:348 (1) - Man, beginning the map at the corner of the screen is really bad for player positioning xP Especially mouse users.
There are 3 cases which I think you can analyse the placement of the first object of the map;
1- It's irrelevant when the mapper is doing his map on free-hand style. This means that if you're a mapper that doesn't go for patterning but rather free placement with aesthetical spacing complementation that just moves around the screen as the map goes, taking the first object into analysis is just useless
2- You're actually modding the spacing of the starting pattern, in which case, you don't mention the first object, but rather you mod the pattern itself 00:00:348 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - and mention whatever it is you need to about spacing/flow/visual etc
3- You actually took into account that it's a relevant aspect when the mapper is making a playfield concept map, which is the case here. This map uses a lot of specific spots on the playfield for specific sound trasitions which is the aspect I hoped ppl would mod and suggest stuff to improve it. But since it's too subtle I guess it's just one of those things ppl may never notice (after all you need to make stuff retarded nowadays to people notice stuff in a map since everything is exaggerated when ppl think of concepts).
So yeah the reason it's placed there is because it's the starting point of the map and also the ending point of the map 01:37:563 (1) - something you could never noticed since you modded just 30 seconds of the diff , there's also the fact that whenever I wasn't on kiai, the emphasized stuff (combo 1) most of the time is placed above on the playfield, compared to the objects that follows it.

00:13:829 (5,6) - Why is this not a slider :S Considering how you mapped 00:13:069 (3,4) - . I did to avoid repetition, but you want more consistency, so I made it slider, FIXED
00:16:867 (5,6) - etc..^^
00:18:765 (2,1) - This is way too big, and it causes the jump onto 00:19:145 (2,1) - to feel totally unemphasized. Because it was intended that way. This entire pattern is made in groups 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - /00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - /00:20:094 (1,2,1,2) - /00:20:854 (1,2,1,2) - /00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) - that's my interpretation for the song there. The first group is more importantly mapped compared to the second one.
00:20:474 (1,2,1,2) - Same ideas here. Your emphasis is misplaced and you're suddenly emphasizing red ticks. It causes the jump on 00:21:423 (2,1) - to feel unimportant comparativeily cuz of the similar spacing being used earlier.I re-worked the spacing here to avoid making 2-1 transitions bigger to the consecutive 1-2
You're clearly mapping these jumps for aesthetic purposes but theyre hurting playability.Playability is fine, not using unplayable stuff here, just unsual wide angles.
00:24:272 (1,2,3,4,1) - If you rotated thsi 120 degrees it would flow so much better considering the counterclockwise movement you had earlier
~
https://puu.sh/y1DgL.png
It would, but that also would make the transition to the stream fall flat with confortable flow, you see, I'm doing a contrast there; the angles here 00:23:322 (2,3,4,5,6) - are all linear 120º but the stream moviment is sudden sharpenedto 60º 00:24:082 (6,1) - This makes it difficult while still keeping it spacing wise coherent
00:25:411 - Why isn't this mapped tho lol... It's a piano sound with no percussion; Also there's a rhythm construction here; 00:24:651 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - first you have the gap idea that should come up with all groups 00:24:651 (1,2) - /00:25:220 (3,4) - /00:25:980 (1,2) - /00:26:740 (1,2) - second, you have an increasing singletap objects groupíng from 2 00:25:031 (2,3) - to 3 00:25:601 (4,5,1,2,3,1) - to 400:27:120 (2,3,4,1) - which helps building up a bit more of tension in this section

Uhh I really can't agree with how you map this lmao... I feel that way about a lot of maps out there, but meh, ppl should be allowed to get pp with no effort.
If you actually plan to make convincing changes to what i mentioned earlier, then you can poke me to mod the rest of the diff.Whatever issues you may point that will improve the map inside its concepts I'll change it just like I did with this mod ^^, so feel free to point more stuff.

You guys are trying too hard to be creative, but there is no baseline "standard mapping" to deviate from though. The issue with making everything creative is, if there is nothing to deviate from, it doesn't come across as unique or special, just different. Look at Shizuku's approach if you want a good idea of how to properly implement creative elements.
It's creative as much as it is different. I'd say that going for a different mapping might not be creative inside your own idea Monstrata, but being different is something that this mapset is REALLY going for and something that ranked category is missing currently.

Do you know WHY you liked Shizuku- diff more?
It wasn't because of the contrast between "regular" and "irregular" sections, it's because the map itself was made with the current mapping visual/spacing standards and you could recognize your mapping there.
looking at this visual is painful for most of the current mapping/modding community
Compared to this for example
But you guys need to understand that this fact is not objectivelly "one is better compared to the other" is just preference. I don't like current visuals and so I map for the people who also don't like the current standards.

Also every single modder had its own "personal favorite" among the diffs, and that only proves how well this mapset result is because EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE INSANE DIFFS is different compared to each other, and that's how it is supposed to be.

Mirash/Delis visual is kinda similar, however delis design is more classy and oriented into Shinxyn while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms/90º flow similar to a few 2012 maps. Trynna makes everything flow linear like an insane diff, but adds some cool stuff to make it more interesting such as the double pattern visual idea 00:00:917 (3,4) - that's used in a lot of different ways in different song sections to keep the player attention while also introducing 1/2 spacing concepts similar to Delis and Mirash 00:23:322 (1,2,3,4,5) - . Bariton is a big fan of imoutosan's idea of overlapping sliders and his overall mapping is based on that while keeping the star rating low so that even new players can enjoy something a bit different. Shizuku- and Mun have a more contemporary aesthetic idea in their maps. Shizuku-'s goes for a traditional modern map but adding a reading element with stacks in it, while Mun pretty much uses a techical mapping structure whenever it's possible and the song supports it.
So yeah I don't think we're tryharding or forcing stuff in a degree that ISN'T already stablished as rankable. You see, the problem with ranking Delta Decision, Taki and Mitsuha extras, Alien and a lot of your maps is that now ,for isonomic reasons, other people can overdo stuff in an extreme way too if they have their reasoning. (if ranking process is not treated as a privilege ofc).

Now for the ppl who are saying "overreact and etc"
the problem here is that Monstrata already joked about this map and so his friends did too;

2017-09-16 01:58 Net0: omg are you really mapping that too?!
2017-09-16 02:05 Monstrata: yes!!
2017-09-16 02:06 Monstrata: do you want me to gd for you?
2017-09-16 02:06 Monstrata: ill just upload for now you're free to take it im not going to make a full set ^^
2017-09-16 02:06 Net0: well sure
2017-09-16 02:06 Net0: Where did you took the mp3?
2017-09-16 02:06 Net0: offset and stuff
2017-09-16 02:08 Monstrata: stole from ur set so it should be fine
2017-09-16 02:08 Net0: oh it's rainbows
2017-09-16 02:08 Net0: damn for a second I honestly thought it was serious
2017-09-16 02:08 Net0: you got me
2017-09-16 02:09 Net0: kinda interesting tho, even fullscreen for the entire song it can only goes as far as 7*
2017-09-16 02:14 Monstrata: lol yea
2017-09-16 02:14 Net0: rhythm op
2017-09-16 02:44 Net0: I'm kinda curious tho, why did you have my set in the first place?
2017-09-16 02:52 Monstrata: was just like "lol another natsukoi hanabi pp farm map"
2017-09-16 02:52 Monstrata: might as well make another :D
2017-09-16 02:52 Net0: hmm
2017-09-16 02:53 Net0: well it isn't :/
2017-09-16 02:54 Net0: but yeah funny meme
https://puu.sh/y27jV.mp3



So I suppose people memeing on the opposite side is just human nature. Everyone is on the wrong side in this entire situation.

So from now on, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM MEME/JOKING/MAKING PHILOSOPHICAL DIGRESSIONS ABOUT LIFE/CALLING PEOPLE "BOLUDITOS", etc and just say whatever you want about the map. Say that you liked it, say that's it's hellish garbage, but keep it ABOUT the map.

Only Mun and Shizuku- missing update, thanks mod.
Xinnoh

Net0 wrote:

while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms

Net0 wrote:

So yeah I don't think we're tryharding or forcing stuff in a degree that ISN'T already stablished as rankable.
please choose only one of these conflicting arguments
Mun
I don't like what Mirash did, but gross overmapping has repeatedly been established as rankable
Monstrata
You're welcome to disagree. Maps that try to push the boundaries / go against the norms of the meta typically take a lot more effort to rank, but you're well aware of that.

My issue with many difficulties in this mapset is that you've executed these gimmicky and "creative" elements with no relation to anything standard or "normal" so there is no juxtaposition that allows these creative elements to shine. On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently. It's unfortunately, because many of the mappers in this set seem to know their way around the editor. But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in. There are a lot of "oh this is cool" moments that turn into "wait why is it like this now?" two seconds after because you shift to a different pattern, or a different approach. This set to me, showcases mappers with good potential who are biting off more than they can chew by trying to introduce and set up too many creative components.

If you want to improve your map, ask yourself why you've deviated from the "expected/standard" way of mapping for a particular element or pattern. If your answer is something along the lines of "i want to make it different" then reconsider your reasoning. If your answer is "I want to highlight X" (X being a particular instrument, the pitch, the rhythm, the emphasis, etc...) then keep.

But then ask yourself "If i want to highlight X using method Y, do I really need to highlight X using method Z, A, B, C, D, E, F as well?" (Methods being "flow break, spacing changes, linear flow, overlaps, stacks etc....)" And hopefully your answer will be "No", or in rare cases"Yes, but only because method Y and Z relate very well to each other."

Hope you understand my position better now. I've come to understand your perspective better, so I'm not as afraid to put a veto. But I probably won't unless you find some random BN to yolo bubble this.
Mun
Honestly I have to say monstrata really has it down. That was a very well-articulated explanation of something I really can't disagree with.
Mirash
i see nothing creative in my difficulty, and i was not trying to achieve something like this
the ideas i use here is all basic, and, for what i could tell, been in use from many years ago, like 2010-11
and yeah overmapping to highlight and keep tension in music is what i like to do
Trynna
i'm sorry if my diff feels messy to you though, i'm open for criticism if you want to point something else out
igorsprite
Essa discussão foi tão desnecessária quanto o mod do Monstrata :/
Topic Starter
Net0

Monstrata wrote:

You're welcome to disagree. Maps that try to push the boundaries / go against the norms of the meta typically take a lot more effort to rank, but you're well aware of that.Yeah, even tho I don’t think there’s anything THAT spectacular NEW with any diff, sure I can’t rank this to celebrate anyones birthday.

My issue with many difficulties in this mapset is that you've executed these gimmicky and "creative" elements with no relation to anything standard or "normal" so there is no juxtaposition that allows these creative elements to shine. Because you’re going for a specific definition of “normal” mapping. You see, if I compare in a DJPop maps parts that are supposed to shine and parts that are not supposed do shine, I need to evaluate it differently if I were to mod one of your regular maps beucase the core used to structure the map is entirely different. Let me show you;
If a map is made on grid snap 1, fully DSed. The analisys of a part that is supposed to shine and parts that are not can’t be done with spacing concept. If visuals are also an element that’s null because of slider design limitation, the evaluation there should be on flow element, and that’s pretty straight forward if you compare how both of this plays;
https://puu.sh/y29Gk.jpg / https://puu.sh/y29Ia.jpg is pretty obvious on what is being more emphasized compared to the other one.
And that applies to any map that has an intensity component added to its composition;
In your maps for example, you have the same visual/flow in the entire map, so the only element that can be took into analysis as for the shine/non-shine thing is spacing;
Non-kiai
http://puu.sh/y29N7.jpg /
Kiai
https://puu.sh/y29RT.jpg
And that can be took into account in any map of any level of difficulty. HOWEVER you’re generically pointing that the diffs don’t have that contrast but you never mentioned that IN THE MOD itself.


On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently. It's unfortunately, because many of the mappers in this set seem to know their way around the editor. But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in. There are a lot of "oh this is cool" moments that turn into "wait why is it like this now?" two seconds after because you shift to a different pattern, or a different approach. This set to me, showcases mappers with good potential who are biting off more than they can chew by trying to introduce and set up too many creative components. This entire paragraph is just rethoric argumentation. “On their own, the patterns could be pretty cool, but there is no substance to them currently.” Saying there’s no substance means nothing. It’s just personal criticism, it’s just like a line a movie critic would say about a specific acting of a person in a movie for example.
“But you guys are using too many different concepts and not tying them in.” really? So you think that Mirash map suddenly becomes another map midway? If that was the case would be really simple to point that out; “Yo Mirash your map up until the second verse is one thing, when you start mapping the bridge of the song and chorus you’re totally using different stuff” Another element is that EACH diff is different. So each diff has its own concepts to be “tying them in.. Shizuku- with the reading/stack aspect, Mirash diff with flow, Bariton diff with its overlap visual, etc. And AGAIN, you didn’t mentioned in the mod where it was off, when any of the diffs just didn’t implement something accordingly.


If you want to improve your map, ask yourself why you've deviated from the "expected/standard" way of mapping for a particular element or pattern. If your answer is something along the lines of "i want to make it different" then reconsider your reasoning. If your answer is "I want to highlight X" (X being a particular instrument, the pitch, the rhythm, the emphasis, etc...) then keep. You’re assuming now that we don’t know what we’re doing because you QUICKLLY checked the diffs and couldn’t grasp it, so now it’s our fault? Even tho we did mapped accordingly to what you’re saying? Quick example
Mirash diff; 00:20:854 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) – why would you map this with straight lines and on the next section 00:23:322 (1,2,3,4,5) – make a square?! Oh that’s because the map uses a straight visual, and to make distinction of the two different measures 00:21:993 - ~ 00:22:942 - / 00:23:322 - ~ 00:24:272 -. Spacing and flow changed accordingly, also avoid the linear repetition with the song change, there’s a symmetrical patterning build here 00:24:272 (1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1) – instead of the previous free-hand design, etc, etc.
If a modder doesn’t understand a certain idea in the map, he should ASK about it. Not assume the mapper doesn’t know what he’s doing.

But then ask yourself "If i want to highlight X using method Y, do I really need to highlight X using method Z, A, B, C, D, E, F as well?" (Methods being "flow break, spacing changes, linear flow, overlaps, stacks etc....)" And hopefully your answer will be "No", or in rare cases"Yes, but only because method Y and Z relate very well to each other."
Again you didn’t ask yourself that when you modded my diff for example; you modded this section 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) – and all you could see was the visual element of it to justify its existence, but failed to notice the fact that every single object 00:18:575 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) – is upwards compared to 00:18:765 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2) – and also failed to question yourself WHY only 00:21:044 (2) – and 00:22:942 (1) – are the exception of that rule. That also applies to other concepts such as spacing, why is this group 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) – contrast between spacing on 1-2 vs 2-1 difference bigger compared to 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - , or flow , why does this part flows linear 00:21:613 (1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1) – instead of angular like the previous 1-2. So yeah, I map using everything you’re saying.
Hope you understand my position better now. I watched the vod of you modding this map, I heard “Please don’t tell me this is bubbled”, I can already understand your position pretty clearly. But what I really think that comes up with all of this is how unwilling you were to mod the map in the first place. If you really didn’t want to mod this I gave you other options, also, you could just say “Hey I don’t like any of the songs you have currently, do you mind if I own you a mod on something else in the future?” . Because honestly, anything is better compared to a mod made with bad faith.
I've come to understand your perspective better, so I'm not as afraid to put a veto. But I probably won't unless you find some random BN to yolo bubble this. “Random BN”so you find the memes towards you offensive, but saying that there are BNs who are random and BNs who are not random is not offensive when EVERY single BN is an important part of the BNG is not offensive…
Monstrata
Best of luck ranking this map ^^.
Mun

Monstrata wrote:

Mun's Expert

00:06:992 (1,2,3) - Why the sudden change in structure here? I don't see much of a change in structure here at all, aside from that which the music merits as it transitions into the next section.
00:11:360 (3,4) - Why stack? :S that would be because i am bad
00:21:044 (5,6) - Why the huge 1/4 jump here xp see above
00:25:980 (1,4) - Can you not overlap? lmao u got it
00:35:854 (3,4,5) - This just looks bad cuz its a different visual structure compared to just an object before. Two competing grid structures end up causing structural inconsistenties Thanks for the input! I'd like more feedback on whether the change is acceptable if possible, though
00:47:626 (2,3,4) - Why are they so close together they touch like that xd. your cs is high enough xd unclosened
00:49:525 (3,1) - Looks off visually xP make more symmetrical or something. symmetricized

lol xd lol

You guys are trying too hard to be creative, but there is no baseline "standard mapping" to deviate from though. The issue with making everything creative is, if there is nothing to deviate from, it doesn't come across as unique or special, just different. Look at Shizuku's approach if you want a good idea of how to properly implement creative elements.
This was the most helpful mod that this mapset has received to date. Thank you!

xd
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209,145,26360,1,8,0:0:0:0:
204,21,26550,1,8,0:0:0:0:
-11,93,26740,2,0,B|91:92|91:92|49:126,1,150,12|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
0,159,27120,1,4,3:0:0:0:
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207,287,32626,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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280,257,36234,2,0,L|282:160,1,80
351,124,36613,1,0,0:0:0:0:
146,283,36803,6,0,P|119:232|141:158,1,120,0|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
207,129,37183,1,8,0:0:0:0:
316,200,37373,2,0,P|265:227|191:205,1,120,0|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
131,87,37753,1,0,3:0:0:0:
316,200,37942,1,8,0:0:0:0:
125,303,38132,6,0,B|15:302|15:302|73:347,1,160,0|0,3:0|3:0,3:0:0:0:
125,384,38702,1,8,0:0:0:0:
215,172,38892,2,0,L|217:244,1,40
282,349,39082,1,0,0:0:0:0:
125,303,39272,6,0,L|127:231,1,40,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
216,211,39461,2,0,L|214:347,1,120,4|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
216,344,39841,5,4,0:1:0:0:
376,145,41360,1,2,0:0:0:0:
216,344,42309,5,8,0:0:0:0:
376,145,42499,1,4,3:0:0:0:
376,145,42879,6,0,P|365:199|394:283,1,134.999995880127,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
453,113,43259,1,8,0:0:0:0:
222,209,43449,6,0,P|211:263|240:347,1,134.999995880127,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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139,241,44018,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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231,113,44588,1,8,0:0:0:0:
431,111,44778,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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201,288,45348,2,0,L|205:199,1,89.9999972534181,4|8,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
205,199,45727,1,0,3:0:0:0:
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343,290,46677,2,0,P|395:285|435:297,2,89.9999972534181,0|0|8,0:0|3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
201,288,47246,1,0,0:0:0:0:
268,366,47436,5,0,3:0:0:0:
343,290,47626,2,0,L|343:210,1,80,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
193,147,48006,2,0,P|254:172|317:151,1,134.999995880127
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343,210,48765,1,0,0:0:0:0:
193,147,48955,6,0,P|230:212|210:299,1,134.999995880127,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
159,315,49335,1,8,0:0:0:0:
425,171,49525,2,0,P|372:196|296:165,1,134.999995880127,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
225,269,49905,1,0,3:0:0:0:
363,108,50094,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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466,266,51044,2,0,P|468:300|455:340,1,44.999998626709,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
329,269,51234,1,0,0:0:0:0:
261,309,51423,2,0,P|259:287|262:265,1,44.999998626709,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
399,268,51613,2,0,L|400:380,1,89.9999972534181,12|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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240,242,57310,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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142,112,60917,1,0,0:0:0:0:
135,104,61012,1,0,0:0:0:0:
130,94,61107,6,0,P|168:76|257:87,1,100,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
415,238,61487,1,0,0:0:0:0:
109,188,61677,2,0,P|88:173|67:124,1,50,4|0,2:0|2:0,2:0:0:0:
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194,186,62056,2,0,P|191:211|159:254,1,50,4|0,2:0|2:0,2:0:0:0:
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266,238,62436,6,0,P|288:227|335:357,1,200,4|0,2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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387,131,83512,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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195,249,85601,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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201,374,86550,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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289,57,89398,5,0,0:0:0:0:
262,319,89588,1,8,0:0:0:0:
273,53,89778,6,0,B|293:189|293:189|213:115,1,194.999991073609,4|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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330,11,90727,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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426,260,91107,1,12,0:0:0:0:
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326,322,91297,1,12,0:0:0:0:
275,285,91392,1,12,0:0:0:0:
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186,370,91866,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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175,359,92246,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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163,349,92626,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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208,66,93385,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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200,165,93765,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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210,153,94145,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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200,165,95664,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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200,165,96423,1,12,3:0:0:0:
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200,165,96993,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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255,114,97563,1,2,0:0:0:0:
VINXIS
meh monstrata isnt wrong in the mod

i think most of the mappers' efforts in this set r trying to be 2 creative which led them to obscure the image of their own map
Izzywing
@mun

small point but have you considered moving all of 00:25:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - to the right a bit, lets you space out 00:27:120 (5) - which would help make it look not so different from the other 1/4 gaps (something like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9352907)

01:01:107 (1,2,3) - I also think this is a bit overspaced in context with the rest of the map, its part of the transition so i dont think it needs this big emphasis

@mirash

00:21:423 (1,2,3,4) - these doubles make no sense to me at all, i cant hear what they're supposed be following. if its an overmap...im not really understanding that either
I Must Decrease
top diff:

00:25:411 - ... why did you ignore this beat? i cannot fathom a reason for why this is ignored. Can you explain this?

(also overall agree with monstrata this map isnt really fit for rank as is)
chainpullz
I too was there for Monstrata's stream and while he may not have gone start to finish on every diff, there are like a dozens diffs on this set so it still ended up costing an hour of his time to go over what he did.

I'm usually a fan of edgy mapping (hanzer x irre eastbound & down is one of my favorites) but when the tone of the song itself is the exact opposite of edgy it has the same cringe feeling as a bunch of middle schoolers trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.

This is just a first impression (opinion) from seeing the maps on his stream so take it as you will (though I do hope you at least take a moment to ask yourself why it had to be this song that you mapped like this).
_handholding
Imho I see you as quite an inexperienced mapper (dw I suck too) and whenever someone critisizes one of your maps, or just don't agree with certain aspects, you get really defensive and start bringing up loads of other maps in retaliation, and that doesn't really help much. I think if you were to truly take a step back with some humility, try out a few things other modders have brought up, you'd go a long way, not just improving your individual maps but also improving as a mapper as well
SnowNiNo_
why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
juankristal
do i really have to read all of this stuff... :(

EDIT: Alright so, cleaned the thread a bit. Please no more memes here.

Don't make a drama out of something that didn't really look like it in the first place really. People can make arguments but at the end they are helping improving maps by modding. Both sides should just be more clear with their suggestions and answers alongisde memeing a lot less.
Joe Castle
its sad that half of you guys cant stand a meme about monstrata´s mod...

but at the same time the other half cant stand a silly opinion about how the map starts

/4D_chess_starts
0034192
lmao what the fuck is going on here
Natteke desu

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
Because mapping basic stuff is boring and not original
Ayesha Altugle

Monstrata wrote:

Shizuku's Extra

00:10:791 (1,1) - Stacks Whoops, no one saw that one
00:25:411 - Don't understand why you dont map this. But i can understand every other part. it's just here theres also the insturment didn't feel the need to add a note since I mostly follow the percussion instruments

This is great. This is how you should map a gimmick honestly. There are overlapping/stacking/hard to read patterns but they are really well integrated. you have a baseline that is "normal" mapping so when you switch to sections that are different, they feel unique and special. Good job! Coming from you, it's a really nice thing to say. Considering for the past 2 years, you hated my mapping style since it didn't make sense at all. It's good to see that comment from you because that's when I know that I improved on mapping, even though it took so long to do so.
Thanks for modding!
osu file format v14

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333,80,60727,5,2,0:0:0:0:
277,282,61107,1,2,0:0:0:0:
277,282,61487,5,6,0:0:0:0:
333,80,61677,1,2,0:0:0:0:
65,103,62056,5,2,0:0:0:0:
236,143,62436,6,0,L|403:128,1,161.999995056153,6|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
477,120,63006,1,0,0:0:0:0:
257,296,63196,6,0,B|227:243|227:243|237:124,1,161.999995056153,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
242,61,63765,1,2,3:0:0:0:
242,61,63955,1,4,3:0:0:0:
397,128,64145,5,8,0:0:0:0:
257,296,64335,1,8,0:0:0:0:
154,96,64525,1,8,0:0:0:0:
372,261,64715,5,8,0:0:0:0:
278,34,64904,1,8,0:0:0:0:
156,223,65094,1,8,0:0:0:0:
397,128,65284,5,8,0:0:0:0:
154,96,65474,1,12,0:0:0:0:
397,128,65854,5,8,0:0:0:0:
275,112,66044,1,8,0:0:0:0:
154,96,66234,1,2,0:0:0:0:
154,96,66613,5,2,0:0:0:0:
397,128,66803,1,0,0:0:0:0:
397,128,67183,5,6,1:0:0:0:
156,223,67373,1,0,0:0:0:0:
278,34,67563,2,0,L|287:141,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
296,248,67942,5,0,0:0:0:0:
154,96,68132,1,2,0:0:0:0:
356,49,68322,1,8,0:0:0:0:
296,248,68512,6,0,B|312:288|296:328|296:328|280:308,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
356,49,68892,2,0,B|382:15|425:9|425:9|415:32,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
154,96,69272,2,0,B|111:89|84:56|84:56|110:52,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,32,69651,5,2,0:0:0:0:
257,296,69841,1,8,0:0:0:0:
257,296,70221,5,6,0:0:0:0:
394,132,70411,2,0,L|286:141,1,107.999996704102,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
178,150,70791,1,2,0:0:0:0:
372,261,70980,1,0,0:0:0:0:
371,38,71170,1,2,0:0:0:0:
178,150,71360,1,8,0:0:0:0:
394,132,71550,6,0,B|424:116|452:122|452:122|468:147|469:166,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
257,296,71930,2,0,B|228:278|219:250|219:250|232:224|248:214,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
467,332,72310,2,0,B|465:365|446:387|446:387|417:388|400:379,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
277,174,72689,5,0,0:0:0:0:
149,307,72879,2,0,L|257:295,1,107.999996704102,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,73259,5,6,0:0:0:0:
154,96,73449,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,295,73639,2,0,L|246:188,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
236,79,74018,1,0,0:0:0:0:
152,288,74208,2,0,B|202:306|202:306|256:294,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
132,72,74588,6,0,B|108:57|108:57|115:136,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,74968,2,0,B|418:118|418:118|346:85,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
211,328,75348,2,0,B|210:356|210:356|274:310,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,261,75727,5,2,0:0:0:0:
156,223,75917,1,8,0:0:0:0:
372,261,76107,1,0,0:0:0:0:
177,69,76297,6,0,B|147:122|147:122|157:241,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
155,222,76677,1,8,0:0:0:0:
284,59,76866,2,0,L|174:68,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
255,294,77246,5,2,0:0:0:0:
284,59,77436,1,8,0:0:0:0:
255,294,77626,1,2,0:0:0:0:
284,59,77816,5,6,0:0:0:0:
270,177,78006,1,2,0:0:0:0:
255,294,78196,1,8,0:0:0:0:
284,59,78385,5,6,0:0:0:0:
284,59,78765,5,2,0:0:0:0:
270,177,78955,1,8,0:3:0:0:
270,177,79145,1,4,3:0:0:0:
442,44,79335,6,0,B|360:27|364:74|282:57,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
179,66,79715,2,0,P|227:50|283:58,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,80094,5,0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,80284,1,2,0:0:0:0:
255,294,80474,1,8,0:0:0:0:
179,66,80664,6,0,B|155:51|155:51|162:130,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,81044,2,0,B|418:118|418:118|346:85,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
229,285,81423,2,0,B|228:313|228:313|292:267,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,81803,5,2,0:0:0:0:
179,66,81993,2,0,L|189:185,1,107.999996704102,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,132,82373,2,0,P|327:117|371:181,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
471,105,82753,5,8,0:0:0:0:
286,56,82942,2,0,L|174:65,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
80,182,83322,5,2,0:0:0:0:
229,285,83512,1,8,0:0:0:0:
178,65,83702,6,0,B|138:49|98:65|98:65|118:49,1,107.999996704102,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
343,181,84082,2,0,B|376:154|383:111|383:111|386:137,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
160,265,84461,1,2,0:0:0:0:
160,265,84556,1,8,0:0:0:0:
160,265,84651,6,0,B|166:307|200:334|200:334|176:324,1,107.999996704102,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
178,65,85031,5,8,0:3:0:0:
178,65,85411,6,0,B|240:32|304:64|304:64|280:93,1,161.999995056153,12|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
185,168,85791,2,0,P|170:117|178:64,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
385,136,86170,5,8,0:0:0:0:
185,168,86360,1,2,0:0:0:0:
372,261,86550,1,8,0:0:0:0:
175,323,86740,6,0,B|151:338|151:338|158:259,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,261,87120,2,0,B|396:276|396:276|389:197,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
202,104,87499,2,0,B|178:89|178:89|185:168,1,107.999996704102,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
200,376,87879,5,2,0:0:0:0:
366,261,88069,1,8,0:0:0:0:
202,104,88259,1,2,0:0:0:0:
83,298,88449,5,8,0:0:0:0:
366,261,88639,1,2,0:0:0:0:
80,182,88829,5,8,0:0:0:0:
363,145,89018,1,2,0:0:0:0:
200,376,89208,5,8,0:0:0:0:
178,65,89398,1,2,0:0:0:0:
477,120,89588,5,8,0:0:0:0:
80,179,89778,6,0,B|126:202|173:188|173:188|141:198|125:232,1,161.999995056153,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
125,231,90158,5,2,0:0:0:0:
310,116,90348,2,0,L|198:106,1,107.999996704102,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
388,196,90727,5,8,0:0:0:0:
125,231,90917,1,2,0:0:0:0:
389,284,91107,1,8,0:0:0:0:
440,267,91202,1,8,0:0:0:0:
440,213,91297,1,8,0:0:0:0:
388,196,91392,1,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,91487,5,4,1:0:0:0:
125,231,91866,5,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,92056,1,0,0:0:0:0:
125,231,92436,5,0,0:0:0:0:
241,235,92626,1,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,92816,1,4,0:0:0:0:
125,231,93196,5,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,93385,1,8,0:0:0:0:
125,231,93575,5,0,0:0:0:0:
125,231,93955,5,8,0:0:0:0:
357,240,94145,1,0,0:0:0:0:
241,235,94335,1,8,0:0:0:0:
200,376,94525,5,4,0:0:0:0:
203,107,94904,5,8,0:0:0:0:
200,376,95094,1,0,0:0:0:0:
203,107,95474,5,8,0:0:0:0:
201,241,95664,1,8,0:0:0:0:
200,376,95854,5,0,0:0:0:0:
203,107,96234,1,0,0:0:0:0:
357,240,96423,1,8,0:0:0:0:
201,241,96613,1,0,0:0:0:0:
45,240,96993,5,8,0:0:0:0:
201,241,97183,1,0,0:0:0:0:
201,241,97373,1,0,0:0:0:0:
124,106,97563,1,0,0:0:0:0:
Mirash
@Hobbes2 if you listen closely, sounds in music start at 00:21:423 (1) - and end on 00:21:803 (4) - while it could be a stream because of strong tomb, i find the way doublets represent that sounds more appropriate here, if i'm not a total retard. i might change it though, if someone actually will convince me with something more than WHYWHYWHYitIsOvermap
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks
Linada

Mirash wrote:

@Hobbes2 if you listen closely, sounds in music start at 00:21:423 (1) - and end on 00:21:803 (4) - while it could be a stream because of strong tomb, i find the way doublets represent that sounds more appropriate here, if i'm not a total retard. i might change it though, if someone actually will convince me with something more than WHYWHYWHYitIsOvermap
also got very tilted because of discussions i've seen, thanks
tbh i really can't understand doubles here too, even if i listen closely i don't get it. moving 3 at the white tick would make much more sense to me

also

01:16:297 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - i knew overmap with sliderend were allowed but this stream is completely out of place
01:24:461 (7,1) - also here ?? but you ignore the existing 1/4s to completely overmap inexisting sounds ?
01:25:411 (5) - nc pls

Net0 wrote:

while Mirash follows his own mapping based on overmapped rhythms
when did this become a thing ? thoses streams emphasize or express nothing in the song, i don't get it, why is this even a thing

also ppl here getting triggered easily, don't take this offensively, i'm out already do what you want


@Shizuku rly nice diff
Delis
I've never been mapping just to make every circle sense btw maybe not a good thing to tell someone what to do by your words >u<

p.s. my post with the fixed .osu is deleted holy shit
Sotarks

Jounzan wrote:

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

why do ppl try to map gimmicks
when the song isnt gimmicky at all
:thinking:
Because mapping basic stuff is boring and not original
Agree with Nino here..
If you guys really want to be original just make original maps on original songs. But this is just my opinion tho.

I remember modded this and yeah shizuku reflected this song really well with his mapping. The rest is good but like trying too hard to be creative ends up random gimmicks and doesn't fit.

Anyway good luck with this
Akitoshi

Delis wrote:

>u<
Natteke desu
I mean this thread is lol. Would it work as a something worth discussion if i come to a random map thread and say something like "this map is too generic and it doesnt fits the song"? Can you quit this nonsence, and instead point everyhing you find unfittig by examples, because saying u pepel try two hard to be creative and song doesnt support it is straight retarded in case why on earth you think people will agree with your opinions when obviously liking other kind of stuff than you do lol im mad
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