Well this is gonna be interesting...
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MAXIMUM THE HORMONE - A-L-I-E-N
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00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to
Topic Starter
I have a possible alternative in mind for it, i'll push a quick update tomorrow though after confirming with some players. I like how it plays currently because its arranged in a way where its possible for players to try alternating it instead of single tapping, but essentially the structure is set up to cause really fast counterclockwise flowing movements that break down into rotating/tornado based jumps afterwards.fufu- wrote:
00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to
new bns: pls stop ruining urselves ;w;
anyways gl
anyways gl
monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?
GaterRaider wrote:
monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?
hobbes i ranked 2 of your maps too give me some bubbles thanksGaterRaider wrote:
monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?
wtf dude, this song is pure love, I hear it when I want to sleep :3 anyways /me grabs popcornGenjuro wrote:
nice map, i like the concept used where the map is ugly to go with the ugly song, gl with rank
owoAkitoshi wrote:
What's This?
Well fuck, this coming from a guy who speed ranks trash jump maps for the sole reason of being the highest SR TV size map out there (and you probably can't even clear your map as well), is painful to read.Xexxar wrote:
This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.
Reconsider your actions.
this should be nuked
Responding to people concerns doesn't negate community negative feedback towards map.Hobbes2 wrote:
This isn't actually true, lol. Community voice matters a lot. Monstrata did respond to everyone that had a specific concern, which is why I was confident in pushing this forward.
EDIT - Just want to point out that I don't want to involve myself in drama (I didn't bubble this map to start a fight, I did it because I think it deserves to be ranked) so I'm not going to respond to any posts that aren't relevant to the map itself from now.
As I said - if something is right with ranking criteria and doesn't break guidelines, it is perfectly rankable.
Community feedback have nothing to do in this case. Only thing what people can do is play it as qualified and vote 1 star at the end.
Don't mix "community feedback" as reaction of majority towards certain event with "feedback about map" in term of modding.
yes, Loctav help us pleaseEkoro wrote:
this should be nuked
Clearly the only solution is to revoke every single BN's rights and start from scratch by giving BN permissions to all the salty 5 and 6 digit players who madpost about maps that give high PP while not being able to make a decent map themselves.
You know, because self important contrarian nerds are so much better at judging beatmap than players who have been active in the mapping community for a while.
Also really gotta love the in-fighting in the BN group, that's really appropriate to have in a public forum instead of a private discussion.
(in all seriousness though, the incivility really needs to go)
You know, because self important contrarian nerds are so much better at judging beatmap than players who have been active in the mapping community for a while.
Also really gotta love the in-fighting in the BN group, that's really appropriate to have in a public forum instead of a private discussion.
(in all seriousness though, the incivility really needs to go)
Guys can we stop the discussion, it's not going to bring us anywhere at the moment. Best is to mod it during qualified to get it DQd and have the process reset each time.
Just let Monstrata inflate his ego a little more and move on, no one will look at this map after a month or so. It doesn't leave up for enough fun or unique experience during gameplay so no actual player in the right mind will play this again.
note this is a meme dont take this too seriously
Just let Monstrata inflate his ego a little more and move on, no one will look at this map after a month or so. It doesn't leave up for enough fun or unique experience during gameplay so no actual player in the right mind will play this again.
note this is a meme dont take this too seriously
There we go once again
/me grabs popcorn and sits near the other guy with it
/me grabs popcorn and sits near the other guy with it
welcome back to Osu kynan, glad to have you here for the daily unwarranted saltKynan wrote:
Well fuck, this coming from a guy who speed ranks trash jump maps for the sole reason of being the highest SR TV size map out there (and you probably can't even clear your map as well), is painful to read.Xexxar wrote:
This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.
Reconsider your actions.
You're 96k, you have 4 pending tv size maps from 11 days ago, your opinion is shit, you have no experience in mappingMagicDragon wrote:
Clearly the only solution is to revoke every single BN's rights and start from scratch by giving BN permissions to all the salty 5 and 6 digit players who madpost about maps that give high PP while not being able to make a decent map themselves.
+we don't flame the map because of pp (I don't even know how much pp is this shit), it's just an unplayable shitmap with ugly patterns because "lol metal is disgusting anime is better so I'll shitmap this and push it to ranked because a lot of BNs suck my dick"
May I qualify this? I find myself very proficient of doing such job! I will be pleased if you would allo-
Oh...
Oh...
hi
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.
nothing more to add i guess.
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.
i find this argument really basic because everything can be treated as "jumps" or "streams" or whatever thing that comes to your mind. under those ways of thinking, we could promote 500 bpm streams as official content because it would be a very basic stream at 500 bpm (i'm obviously exaggerating for the sake of making the explanation clearer) maps are meant to be played after all.Hobbes2 wrote:
I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
nothing more to add i guess.
lol, vetoing map just because it's unplayable, then let's unrank all Mazzerin's maps.
@Kagetsu can you be more specific pls or atleast point out the issues you have with the map?
Loved when?
this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
lol what
niхуia тi рeт@рDGokateigo wrote:
I love you, finnally a good bn who does his job
It never ends
keep it in Loved please >.<
Ariana_old_1
uh. this argument is kind of strange and not really a valid reasoning imo.
consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.
aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."
consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.
aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."
you're 69k with 2 pending maps, don't act like you're even remotely good enough at mapping nor playing to be able to judge thisGokateigo wrote:
You're 96k, you have 4 pending tv size maps from 11 days ago, your opinion is shit, you have no experience in mapping
+we don't flame the map because of pp (I don't even know how much pp is this shit), it's just an unplayable shitmap with ugly patterns because "lol metal is disgusting anime is better so I'll shitmap this and push it to ranked because a lot of BNs suck my dick"
if it is so unplayable and shitty, how about you mod it or explain why you feel that way other than saying "it's ugly so it must be bad!!"
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Potentially first Beatmap thread to reach 1k posts? You decide!
I think a major difference between a 500bpm long stream (or even a stream with 32 circles) and the difficult parts of this map is that every part of this map is proved to be FCable while its almost impossible to fc a 500bpm stream with one hand two fingers......
Topic Starter
Ca you tell me how this map has been demonstrated unrankable while it was Loved? Because all those A scores with over 93% acc say otherwise... Vaxei even passed this map on DT. If Loved is any indicator, it's an indicator that people can actually play the map so yes, I really do appreciate you giving more details about your veto, and at least which areas you think require work. The map isn't overdone in any way, if you disagree please point them out. I am ranking this map because of the concept, not because I want to rank the hardest map in the game, that was over a long time ago, and you've even nominated maps with a higher star rating (and the same bpm) as this.Kagetsu wrote:
hi
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.i find this argument really basic because everything can be treated as "jumps" or "streams" or whatever thing that comes to your mind. under those ways of thinking, we could promote 500 bpm streams as official content because it would be a very basic stream at 500 bpm (i'm obviously exaggerating for the sake of making the explanation clearer) maps are meant to be played after all.Hobbes2 wrote:
I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
nothing more to add i guess.
Also 280 bpm jumps is very much approachable to top players. You really underestimate people's skill. Look at all the DT plays we have. In any case, I know you don't want to wallmod, but give me which areas are prompting you to veto, or at least tell me that I can counter the veto simply by asking another BN to nominate.
who would want something different in the ranked section like people always want, people much prefer anime tv sizes in there.
ill just remind you guys that promethean kings is ranked and it has very few passes
//800 post xd
<3
//800 post xd
<3
I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this. And yeah, 800th post hooray 
I have a shit ton of non submitted maps and a few gds so stfu ?Realazy wrote:
you're 69k with 2 pending maps, don't act like you're even remotely good enough at mapping nor playing to be able to judge this
if it is so unplayable and shitty, how about you mod it or explain why you feel that way other than saying "it's ugly so it must be bad!!"
Yeah, I think this veto was uncalled for especially without any reason given but because Kagetsu thinks it is too hard for top players.M a r v o l l o wrote:
I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this.And yeah, 800th post hooray
And you got sniped on that 800th post real good.
our real heroNaotoshi wrote:
uh. this argument is kind of strange and not really a valid reasoning imo.
consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.
aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."
Random dude giving opinions, maybe more agree:
- Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this. - I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
- PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.
brain damage wrote:
my name is what im getting from you guys here
and that could apply to that other guy you replied to. see how dumb that was?Gokateigo wrote:
I have a shit ton of non submitted maps and a few gds so stfu ?
brain damage wrote:
my name is what im getting from you guys here
in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!MaridiuS wrote:
Random dude giving opinions, maybe more agree:
- Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this.- I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
- PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.
@Kagetsu you will need to elaborate on what the issue is and how to fix it
as it stands this is a "I veto this cuz i dislike" without any explanation whatsoever because people being unable to play it atm doesnt mean people will be unable to play it in the future
so please provide more concrete reasoning for this veto
@thread
stop shitposting don't give me headaches
thanks
as it stands this is a "I veto this cuz i dislike" without any explanation whatsoever because people being unable to play it atm doesnt mean people will be unable to play it in the future
so please provide more concrete reasoning for this veto
@thread
stop shitposting don't give me headaches
thanks
Just fucking rank the map already geez, you know it's getting ranked anyway.
MONSTRATA, PAY ATTENTION HERE, THERE'S A STUFF YOU COULD FIX
btw, just noticed, you turned on widescreen but I don't see sb here so I think you should turn it off.
btw, just noticed, you turned on widescreen but I don't see sb here so I think you should turn it off.
hi
can smeone lock this shit till kagetsu responds or something
edit: widescreen is irrelevant since there's no storyboard anyway ?_?
can smeone lock this shit till kagetsu responds or something
edit: widescreen is irrelevant since there's no storyboard anyway ?_?
Not really asking for a complete change of sliders, jsut a few less curves on them, and a bit less randomness might be the way to go IMO,Eraser wrote:
in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!
Yes it's irrelevant but we usually disable it when we don't have any sb so I suggest to do so here
edit: wtf while I was typing this reply 3 new posts came lol
edit: wtf while I was typing this reply 3 new posts came lol
feel free to like, give suggestions on how you think he should instead of just spewing random words and calling me autistic then =(
Everyone can show their opinion and give suggestions if they are actually valid
Left wrote:
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Mentai wrote:
Left wrote:
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Greetings fellow person who is lapping up this cesspool of condescension, drama, toxicity, and memes
May I have some of your popcorn
Hobbes you're a fucking masochist why would you do this to yourself
...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main concerns of the map appear to be aesthetics and playability. Obviously, I probably cannot judge the latter concept very well since I'm not very good at the game (dirty 30k haitai farming scrub amirite), but many mappers in this thread seem to be discontent with, quite simply, how ugly this map is. It looks like a piece of shit, and I believe anyone who disagrees is either blatantly lying, or has terrible taste.
Personally, I also firmly believe that aesthetics is a core concept of mapping, and is not to just be ignored and done sloppily out of laziness or apathy, simply because it's "subjective" or for a petty reason like arrogance, as some people seem to accuse.
Taking that into account, though, aesthetics's main purpose is not to structure the map, but represent the song through visuals (although these can be interchangeable based on the map, but it's pretty obvious which is the case here lol).
There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)
Point being, the song should make the map, if it's a good map. Although I can't be as confident on the execution, I fully support Monstrata's concepts because of this basic reason in mapping.
As for playability, I'm out of my league here (and don't want to debate this xd), so I'll leave that to the people who are experienced with maps of this difficulty, people who are experienced playing maps of this difficulty, and of course, people who are neither but still try to act like an authority even though have not enough or even no idea of what they're talking about!(!!!)
You may say Monstrata's simply using the song as an excuse to be sloppy and lazy. Of course a map that is designed to be one of the hardest in the game in terms of sheer difficulty would be controversial if it doesn't build on a fundamental concept of mapping, but utterly destroys it. Or, maybe you're actually right. Maybe Monstrata is actually attempting to disrespect other mappers, and he intentionally mapped a meme. Or, maybe he deliberately shitmapped this song and watches with glee as how much drama this map has generated; similarly to controversial modern art, because that's what this is in the mapping world. Maybe all of these things are true.
As someone who hasn't kept up with whatever drama occurs on the forums, I am only concerned with how this map is tailored to play to the song; and if whatever outside reason others may give coincides with that, then personally I couldn't care less. What I believe doesn't matter nearly as much as some others, though.
Just a poor mapper's contribution to this shitstorm of a map thread. I was bored this morning! I'm very curious as to see how this map will progress (or lack of), along with when the thread will hit 1k posts (my bet is by this Sunday). Best of luck, Monstrata.
May I have some of your popcorn
Hobbes you're a fucking masochist why would you do this to yourself
...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main concerns of the map appear to be aesthetics and playability. Obviously, I probably cannot judge the latter concept very well since I'm not very good at the game (dirty 30k haitai farming scrub amirite), but many mappers in this thread seem to be discontent with, quite simply, how ugly this map is. It looks like a piece of shit, and I believe anyone who disagrees is either blatantly lying, or has terrible taste.
Personally, I also firmly believe that aesthetics is a core concept of mapping, and is not to just be ignored and done sloppily out of laziness or apathy, simply because it's "subjective" or for a petty reason like arrogance, as some people seem to accuse.
Taking that into account, though, aesthetics's main purpose is not to structure the map, but represent the song through visuals (although these can be interchangeable based on the map, but it's pretty obvious which is the case here lol).
There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)
Point being, the song should make the map, if it's a good map. Although I can't be as confident on the execution, I fully support Monstrata's concepts because of this basic reason in mapping.
As for playability, I'm out of my league here (and don't want to debate this xd), so I'll leave that to the people who are experienced with maps of this difficulty, people who are experienced playing maps of this difficulty, and of course, people who are neither but still try to act like an authority even though have not enough or even no idea of what they're talking about!(!!!)
You may say Monstrata's simply using the song as an excuse to be sloppy and lazy. Of course a map that is designed to be one of the hardest in the game in terms of sheer difficulty would be controversial if it doesn't build on a fundamental concept of mapping, but utterly destroys it. Or, maybe you're actually right. Maybe Monstrata is actually attempting to disrespect other mappers, and he intentionally mapped a meme. Or, maybe he deliberately shitmapped this song and watches with glee as how much drama this map has generated; similarly to controversial modern art, because that's what this is in the mapping world. Maybe all of these things are true.
As someone who hasn't kept up with whatever drama occurs on the forums, I am only concerned with how this map is tailored to play to the song; and if whatever outside reason others may give coincides with that, then personally I couldn't care less. What I believe doesn't matter nearly as much as some others, though.
Just a poor mapper's contribution to this shitstorm of a map thread. I was bored this morning! I'm very curious as to see how this map will progress (or lack of), along with when the thread will hit 1k posts (my bet is by this Sunday). Best of luck, Monstrata.
I don't really like jumps on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - considering 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - because pattern on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesn't move.. like the jumps are static in the same side of the screen unlike the others that makes a movement, it fits the song. but 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesnt do that. I think something like this would fit better and keep the idea of that moving Im talking about to fit the guitar https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8647226
01:07:259 (1) - check timing on this I think its a bit late
01:07:259 (1) - check timing on this I think its a bit late
stop stop veto popping
mod
- 00:01:621 - this sound fuck my ears, if you want to map ugly things don't do a perfect curve
- 00:17:766 (1,2,3,4) - nice curves/square for an ugly map
- 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - perfect pentagons are bad for an ugly map
- 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - back and forths fit better here and it'll be moe playable
- 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
- 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
- 01:06:090 (1) - this spinner is full of strong sounds
- 01:10:902 (1) - ^
- 01:15:702 (1) - ^
- 01:23:493 (1) - ctrl g ? + redo the pattern if you do it
- 01:25:434 (6) - map something ugly here the vocals are different
- 01:27:148 (5) - ^
- 01:28:862 (5) - ^
- 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this (and the other similar patterns) are the worst thing in the map, you can do ugly things which look good, you should do ugly slider-same slider reversed-ugly slider-... it'll look good but it'll be ugly
- 01:41:487 (1) - for all this part : nc on bpm changes
- 02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - do a normal jump maybe ? the sounds are strong and this part is pretty calm
- 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - it's not enough spaced, it's just before a fast part
- 02:51:908 (1,1) - make this possible to hit with a point where you can put your cusor and wait, it's pretty hard at 280bpm
- 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - all the transition snares have a little spacing but this one is cross screen and really hard to play, why ?
- 03:07:390 (1) - it reminds me of ugly sliders,... in the calm part
- 03:15:390 (1,2) - clockwise 03:16:390 (3,4,5,6) - counter clockwise, why ?
- 03:31:498 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ^ but goes counter clockwise/clockwise
- 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - "ugly" part callback and it's perfect squares, it should be a bit ugly
- 04:09:581 - this part is singed by the guy of the ugly part, it should be (again) a bit ugly
- 04:32:302 (1,2,3,4) - nc
- 04:33:754 (1) - (and similar sliders) no, it's just bad, all the stop stop before are 2 normal sliders, but it changes at a random moment
my opinion
gl I guessThis map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
brain damage wrote:
my name is what im getting from you guys here
wtf are you stating he never said something like that in the first placeGokateigo wrote:
This map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting
he just wanted to make a huge contrast between the first part of the song which is super messy and the second part which is calm and cute
calm your frucking tits wtf and stop making poeple say what they never said
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious. He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin did with PK, it'll be way better than this
With all the shitmaps we can see nowadays, I think this beatmap can reach the ranked section.
Because the map itself isn't bad, and the contrast between the both part is very well done. If it's how he want to express his point of view about the music, why are you trying to change Monstrata's mind?
Because the map itself isn't bad, and the contrast between the both part is very well done. If it's how he want to express his point of view about the music, why are you trying to change Monstrata's mind?
I don't think he wanted to make it ugly, but more something weird, fast and tricky, as the song would be. As I said before, it's his POV on this song.Gokateigo wrote:
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious. He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin did with PK, it'll be way better than this
i know you love Mazzerin a lot but the mapper here is Monstrata and not Mazzerin, why would he map like him.Gokateigo wrote:
He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin
You're right, Monstrata maps a lot of things like alien right ?Linada wrote:
i know you love Mazzerin a lot but the mapper here is Monstrata and not Mazzerin, why would he map like him.Gokateigo wrote:
He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin
I think it is perfectly reasonable to map it this way yet not think metal is ugly. The "beautiful part" is calm and structured with a progression and typical chords so it is mapped in an ordered way. The "metal part" has a lot going on with many seemingly random spikes of intensity, thus it is mapped in the same fashion. It doesn't mean Monstrata likes nor dislikes metal, it just means he was mapping the song.Gokateigo wrote:
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious.
Telling him to map like mazzerin won't change anything, because this song is quite different to the stuff that mazzerin maps.Gokateigo wrote:
my opinionThis map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
Monstrata didn't shitmap this map, he's explained quite clearly why he's mapped it the way this is, so stop tying to get him to change that because that's not going to happen
Tbh I never actually hated it but I can sort of understand that.Left wrote:
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
At first I thought "oh he is just trying to show that he can rank anything" but then I took a closer look.
Monstrata is making an effort to rank this and mapping it like that seems fitting for the music imo. You are all just creatin unnecessary drama.
Didn't find something wrong with the map.
In reality there isn't anything wrong with it than the fact that it's different in a way, and people need some time to digest it.
Unbubling for invalid reasons ain't gonna help either. Further discussion will only lead to more pointless arguments and salt.
why not just convert the map to ctb then rank and call it a day
gSinnoh wrote:
why not just convert the map to ctb then rank and call it a day
shouldn't have cheated retard lolzM a r v o l l o wrote:
I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this.And yeah, 800th post hooray
btw kagetsu i really don't know what's with the "this map is unplayable" this is passable easily by so many people especially by the so mentioned "top players" zz
kinda unwarranted bubble pop
i'd say monstrata mapped the first half with such weird shaped sliders is because of how chaotic it is with many chaotic screamos all over the place, and i think monstrata had done it very masterfully. you can't compare this with mazzerin's maps because the songs he is mapping are so much better organized (and also not intended to be chaotic at the first place).. well i mean you don't find the vocalist throwing tantrums on songs mazzerin mapped
at first, i thought monstrata was just a jerk who can speedrank anything at his own will, but seeing this map further makes me understand how much effort he was putting into this map. good luck on ranking this!
but you need to be able to taste it to judge whether it's bad or not. if someone don't like eating vegetables, they would mostly say that every vegetable dishes taste badSeni wrote:
You don't have to be a chef to know the dish is bad.
at first, i thought monstrata was just a jerk who can speedrank anything at his own will, but seeing this map further makes me understand how much effort he was putting into this map. good luck on ranking this!
Topic Starter
Thanks for the discussion everyone. I'll give a more detailed reply to those who posted suggestions etc...
It's been over 50 pages worth of discussion so I can't blame people for not going through the whole thread to fully understand concepts and ideas. I'll briefly summarise them here, though please take them with a grain of salt. They are summaries, please don't reply to them like they are the entirety of my mapping philosophy and approach to this map, it would discredit the paragraphs upon paragraphs that people have posted before.
As is probably quite obvious, the map is operating under the concept that harsh vocals should be mapped aesthetically to ugly sliders, while the pretty anime girl vocals are mapped basically like regular anime maps using clean and structured patterns. This song has two very obvious sections, the metal in the first half, and the pop in the second half, and dividing the aesthetic into two visual categories reflects the song very well in this aspect. I'm sure most people can agree on that.
The map does begin seemingly neat, with visual patterns and paralleling/geometric patterns. The effect is to establish a base-line "aesthetic value" for the map, so that when the vocals kick in, and become harsher, there is a very noticeable shift in visuals.
Really, the concepts aren't that difficult to understand, and I have a lot of support for them. I suppose the playability aspect is honestly what we are here to discuss. I did not intend to map this to become the "most difficult map ever", I am mapping it because I genuinely think this is a concept that is uniquely applicable to this song. It's not common to see two very different music genres being juxtaposed and blended like this. So with that being said, if there are playability issues that still haven't been covered within the last 50 odd pages, or the countless testplays i've had while ranking this map (last year, and this year) and the countless replays I've watched while it was in Loved, then please voice them.
Literally every object on this map has been highlighted and commented on by some modder or player in the past 50 pages so I can probably say quite confidently that every single object has some grounds and analysis for why its there. Of course, I can provide analysis for every single pattern here and can explain how it will be played. I really believe this map can be judged by people even if they cannot pass the map. You don't need to be able to pass a section to be able to play it too.
@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you. In any case, feel free to list the places you think require work, and how you think they can be fixed as Okorin said. I think we can work something out. I am not above changing patterns up if there is some solid counter argument. My goal is ultimately the map's concept so yes, If i absolutely need to nerf some sections, they will not impact the map's core value and I'd be willing to make the necessary changes.
That said, lets await Kagetsu's reply now and give this thread a break. Thanks everyone for participating
It's been over 50 pages worth of discussion so I can't blame people for not going through the whole thread to fully understand concepts and ideas. I'll briefly summarise them here, though please take them with a grain of salt. They are summaries, please don't reply to them like they are the entirety of my mapping philosophy and approach to this map, it would discredit the paragraphs upon paragraphs that people have posted before.
As is probably quite obvious, the map is operating under the concept that harsh vocals should be mapped aesthetically to ugly sliders, while the pretty anime girl vocals are mapped basically like regular anime maps using clean and structured patterns. This song has two very obvious sections, the metal in the first half, and the pop in the second half, and dividing the aesthetic into two visual categories reflects the song very well in this aspect. I'm sure most people can agree on that.
The map does begin seemingly neat, with visual patterns and paralleling/geometric patterns. The effect is to establish a base-line "aesthetic value" for the map, so that when the vocals kick in, and become harsher, there is a very noticeable shift in visuals.
Really, the concepts aren't that difficult to understand, and I have a lot of support for them. I suppose the playability aspect is honestly what we are here to discuss. I did not intend to map this to become the "most difficult map ever", I am mapping it because I genuinely think this is a concept that is uniquely applicable to this song. It's not common to see two very different music genres being juxtaposed and blended like this. So with that being said, if there are playability issues that still haven't been covered within the last 50 odd pages, or the countless testplays i've had while ranking this map (last year, and this year) and the countless replays I've watched while it was in Loved, then please voice them.
Literally every object on this map has been highlighted and commented on by some modder or player in the past 50 pages so I can probably say quite confidently that every single object has some grounds and analysis for why its there. Of course, I can provide analysis for every single pattern here and can explain how it will be played. I really believe this map can be judged by people even if they cannot pass the map. You don't need to be able to pass a section to be able to play it too.
@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you. In any case, feel free to list the places you think require work, and how you think they can be fixed as Okorin said. I think we can work something out. I am not above changing patterns up if there is some solid counter argument. My goal is ultimately the map's concept so yes, If i absolutely need to nerf some sections, they will not impact the map's core value and I'd be willing to make the necessary changes.
That said, lets await Kagetsu's reply now and give this thread a break. Thanks everyone for participating
i can't say i want this map to be ranked (it's fine for ranked section i guess), but i don't understand why people think this is unrankable.
Can you please say why it is unrankable? because sliders are ugly? well, they are fine because represent music almost perfectly. I can't see anything bad in expressing music through the visuals.
Some say this is unplayable. Oh, really? i had a pass on this map when i was practicing high bpm maps a lot. now im 18k btw (i didn't gain any ranks so i probably had same 4k pp back then). It's nowhere near unplayable, i really don't get this point.
so why it can't be ranked? can someone explain properly?
Can you please say why it is unrankable? because sliders are ugly? well, they are fine because represent music almost perfectly. I can't see anything bad in expressing music through the visuals.
Some say this is unplayable. Oh, really? i had a pass on this map when i was practicing high bpm maps a lot. now im 18k btw (i didn't gain any ranks so i probably had same 4k pp back then). It's nowhere near unplayable, i really don't get this point.
so why it can't be ranked? can someone explain properly?
yes please get more opinions because imo this is the only thing i really dislike about the mapMonstrata wrote:
I have a possible alternative in mind for it, i'll push a quick update tomorrow though after confirming with some players. I like how it plays currently because its arranged in a way where its possible for players to try alternating it instead of single tapping, but essentially the structure is set up to cause really fast counterclockwise flowing movements that break down into rotating/tornado based jumps afterwards.fufu- wrote:
00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to
you have a good idea with the whole counterclockwise flow but the pattern doesnt play out that well at all
i was actually unable to pass the map (with HT) until you changed it to more angled jumps
Hi guys, I'm just gonna leave this here.
DISCLAIMER I DONT ACTUALLY KNOW IF THIS IS UNRANKABLE I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE FILE IS STRETCHED IN MULTIPLE PLACES.
pls no hate mnstrato ily
DISCLAIMER I DONT ACTUALLY KNOW IF THIS IS UNRANKABLE I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE FILE IS STRETCHED IN MULTIPLE PLACES.
pls no hate mnstrato ily
This point_down map map sucks thumbsdown tbh, you shitmapped poop a huge flushed part because you point_right think thinking metal metal is disgusting nauseated_face , Mazzerin heart_eyes maps map death skull_crossbones metal metal and thinks thinking song musical_note representation projector is more important grey_exclamation than aesthetics diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside. His maps map are NOT x ugly japanese_ogre af, they are a bit ugly japanese_ogre sometimes clock10 (with really ugly japanese_ogre sounds loud_sound , not everything) but his style dark_sunglasses fits very well thumbsup to metal metal , you point_right should map map something similar to his style dark_sunglasses in the "ugly" japanese_ogre part and map map ugly japanese_ogre sliders level_slider when they are in the middle middle_finger of the calm pause_button part because you point_right can't change currency_exchange your point_right style dark_sunglasses for 2 v objects. If you point_right map map something like this point_down I'll point_left bee bee happy smile if it's ranked white_check_mark , it's just a random money_mouth shit poop map map atm alarm_clock for me point_left
oops
oops
Meanwhile, Promethean Kings is ranked :thinking:Kagetsu wrote:
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
Topic Starter
This is rankable. Actually, if you buy the album, the mp3 on the album actually has the applause at the end. Everyone's just meme'ing that I added the sound effect there and now people are believing it xD. Santa San, Nandemo Nai ya, True Blue, EOS (kamome sano rmx) Arashi no Atode all use the same techniques, and those are just my maps. I've also edited mp3's for a variety of ranked mapsets. The mp3 issue was brought up in a recent Ranking Criteria draft discussion, found at: t/602728 but it was shot down. You can check for people's arguments there if you wish, but thanks for checkingQapitol wrote:
Hi guys, I'm just gonna leave this here.
DISCLAIMER I DONT ACTUALLY KNOW IF THIS IS UNRANKABLE I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE FILE IS STRETCHED IN MULTIPLE PLACES.
pls no hate mnstrato ily
.@Kagetsu I really don't think that the Loved has proven that the map is unplayable, there are a lot of passes
Just because it's not your typical tv size anime pp dtable as fuck harumachi cancer and shit doesn't mean that it isn't playable
this is a meme
Edit: I support this map, take my star~
Just because it's not your typical tv size anime pp dtable as fuck harumachi cancer and shit doesn't mean that it isn't playable
this is a meme
Edit: I support this map, take my star~
I don't mind this map's aesthetics or concept at all, I think variety is always good and I disagree with the popular idea that a map being clean makes it good.
Gonna do a small flow and cursor movement mod since I feel like it's where the map has most flaws.
Gonna do a small flow and cursor movement mod since I feel like it's where the map has most flaws.
- 00:28:922 (1,2,3,4) - this little square kinda kills the cursor speed built up previously and aesthetically feels out of place, I think an irregular shape with a bit more spacing (same movement is fine) would be better.
- 00:32:760 (3) - I don't see much reason for this to be ctrl+Gd, this will be prone to confuse players causing a late hit, please keep in mind that with how the game works right now you need to hit this slider a bit early otherwise it will reach the first repeat and cause a sliderbreak even if it's within the hit window (first repeat is 54ms after the start so with this OD that means you'd break if you hit basically anything later than a 300).
- 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - this doesn't fit at all imo, you theme almost all sliders "ugly" and with uneven spacings but this a "perfect shape", I think this comes from you being used to mapping like this (not saying it's a bad thing) but imo this pattern is out of place here, I'd personally go with something more in tone with the map's theme and difficulty, check this for an idea: https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/HotOpulentGosling And more importantly than aesthetics, using a cursor-snap-based small jump section is a great setup for the next big one here 00:40:385 (2) - your current pattern is based on constant circle movement so it doesn't transition very well.
- 00:40:385 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I think you could improve this flow to be less awkward but it's not terrible so I wont go into detail unless requested.
- 01:01:258 (4,5,6,1) - this almost square-like flow is one of the most awkward in the whole map, this comes after a whole section of acute angled jumps, I think this can be improved, first thing that comes to mind would be 01:01:258 (4) - on x:163 y:326, 01:01:366 (5) - on x:319 y:233, 01:01:473 (6) - on x:30 y:189 and 01:01:580 (1) - a bit closer to 01:01:794 (3) - , the reduced spacing from 6 to 1 increses the emphasis of the back and forths making them more powerful.
- 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - I disagree with this shape, aesthetics aside, I don't see how this would play better than angled jumps and they would fit better imo.
Gasai_old_1
Sucks that you apparently can't be original in map making. I feel most maps these days are just the same copy and paste patterns on different bpms (awks). I like the concept of a map being mapped based on how the song is. If the song sounds chaotic, I'd like to see a chaotic map. If the song is slow and soothing, I expect a soothing map. So, if you try to stifle mappers' creativity here, then what's going to happen in the future. If you're going to bubble or veto it, give good reasons that the mapper can actually consider and implement to make the map better and that 'better' being the 'better' in your opinion and not necessarily the thousands of people playing the game.
Have you thought about mapping in a way where each pattern/combo is messy, but how the patterns/combos interact with each other on the playfield is more organized? While the song is indeed, well, "messy", it does have an overarching structure as music mostly do with just how it's structured. Since you're trying to make the patterns ugly to reflect the song, making the patterns the patterns make more organized (?? lolidk) could improve the map aesthetically while still keeping the core idea of ugly vs not ugly. You have some more structural mapping in there already. At least it sounds like a good idea in my head xd
So like idk doing something like this at 01:39:451 (1) -
The slider on its own is still ugly, but it doesn't bleed into the previous sliderpattern, so they can more easily be seen in isolation, if that makes sense.
Just a thought, and it would be quite a bit of work if you were to do this, but I might as well throw the idea out there.
So like idk doing something like this at 01:39:451 (1) -
The slider on its own is still ugly, but it doesn't bleed into the previous sliderpattern, so they can more easily be seen in isolation, if that makes sense.
Just a thought, and it would be quite a bit of work if you were to do this, but I might as well throw the idea out there.
osu! is a community based game, if a huge part the community doesn't like a map (obvious in this cse, seiously look at the user rating) the map shouldn't be ranked, especially when it uses such a controversial mappingGasai wrote:
If you're going to bubble or veto it, give good reasons that the mapper can actually consider and implement to make the map better and that 'better' being the 'better' in your opinion and not necessarily the thousands of people playing the game.
to the person that had popped the bubble
>ranking a map = literally anyone can do so if they put in the time
>ranking a high sr map = not thank hard for an experienced mapper
>ranking a map greater than 9 stars = Mazzerin
but when it comes to mr triangles here, you veto the map because of those "unplayable" cross screen jumps (with high bpm yes i read that correctly) eh?
I can give u a list of maps that literally put your sorry excuses of an argument to shame
in fact, here are 4 maps that are considered unplayable by your logic
Promethean kings
Those who from the heavens came
Yomi yori Kikoyu, Koukoku no Tou to Honoo no Shoujo
Quaver (yes its 170 but i dont see as many fc's on the map)
any tag4 when it was ranked is another good example but those dont exactly count since no one knew that touchscreens could make big peppy points
If u disqualify all of those high bpm "unplayable" mazzeirn maps, then there would actually be some backing to that claim
but who am i to give such criticism, i just click circles when im bored
>ranking a map = literally anyone can do so if they put in the time
>ranking a high sr map = not thank hard for an experienced mapper
>ranking a map greater than 9 stars = Mazzerin
but when it comes to mr triangles here, you veto the map because of those "unplayable" cross screen jumps (with high bpm yes i read that correctly) eh?
I can give u a list of maps that literally put your sorry excuses of an argument to shame
in fact, here are 4 maps that are considered unplayable by your logic
Promethean kings
Those who from the heavens came
Yomi yori Kikoyu, Koukoku no Tou to Honoo no Shoujo
Quaver (yes its 170 but i dont see as many fc's on the map)
any tag4 when it was ranked is another good example but those dont exactly count since no one knew that touchscreens could make big peppy points
If u disqualify all of those high bpm "unplayable" mazzeirn maps, then there would actually be some backing to that claim
but who am i to give such criticism, i just click circles when im bored
Gasai_old_1
I mentioned nothing about the map being ranked or not. I'm not a fan of the the map, nor do I hate it. I am just saying when making decisions, it's good to give your reason/s because what you have to add might be unique to you or a general collection of users who haven't bothered to give input. Also, I wouldn't sit on the user rating too much since everyone has the power to alter that.Gokateigo wrote:
osu! is a community based game, if a huge part the community doesn't like a map (obvious in this cse, seiously look at the user rating) the map shouldn't be ranked, especially when it uses such a controversial mappingGasai wrote:
If you're going to bubble or veto it, give good reasons that the mapper can actually consider and implement to make the map better and that 'better' being the 'better' in your opinion and not necessarily the thousands of people playing the game.
GUYS PLEASEE!!Monstrata wrote:
That said, lets await Kagetsu's reply now and give this thread a break. Thanks everyone for participating