Strykerto wrote:

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

if u look through the thread ull find the answer i believe :>

I'd rather have a more productive day tbh :>

Mini Gaunt wrote:

Iirc something about ar 10 being to much for the whinny upload part

This is probably the reason why, even though i think its a pretty dumb reason. Ur making 80% of the map difficult to read just so 20% is easier to read, and anyone who can pass that far can read AR 10 anyway. Basically, i find AR 9.7 pretty pointless unless you want it to be challenging to read.

I'm rambling about AR smh

Regardless, GL Monstrata with Rank!

Monstrata wrote:

To make the high bpm part even more messy. The central theme of this map is to create really messy sliders and patterns during the metal section, and then regress to my usual pretty and well-structured mapping style for the moe/anime stop stop winny upload section. So essentially, ugly section, then pretty section. Low AR's allow for more objects on the map, which contributes to more messiness in the metal section, and it makes the later half of the map less forced and more normal/acceptable/natural.

Hope that covers it. I might increase it to AR 10 again if enough people complain about the readability aspect though xD.

Linada wrote:

Finally

edit:
01:38:915 (1,2,3,4,5) - imo they don't really fit as kicksliders since they're on clear 1/2 since 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - are on incomprehensible screamings

yeah 👀

Hobbes2 wrote:

Hello I've come to save humanity

I actually irc'd with monstrata, but i wrote down all the points I made for clarity since it makes it easier for everyone to see whats changed without digging through a chatlog. ill let monstrata respond to this as usual so you guys can know why he rejected stuff that he did.

00:23:131 (1,2,3,4,5) - I think you could gradually make these more "ugly", (same with the later ones 00:24:842 (1,2,3,4,5) - etc etc) to ease into the "ugly" concept, instead of shooting it out all at once with 00:27:409 (1) - this mess. The vocals also kinda have that effect over time, so it would fit in that regard too. you do this later too (01:24:577 (2) -section) I think the current patterns are fine since there does need to be a reasonable baseline "structure" that gets dismantled. That said, I changed up two sliders to create small visual "hints" for the ugly stuff to come.
00:31:903 (3) - 00:31:475 (1,2,4) - are all quite clear in that the movement is downward, but because is particularly smooshed, i'd make 3 a bit more linear (while still ugly of course xd) Hmmm yea true, the movement is shorter compared to the others. Made the slider more straight.
00:36:111 - thought it weird that you skipped this vocal but the next measure maps it (00:37:715 (2,3,4)) The next measure is more intense and i'd like to create a rhythmic build up too. Next measure the pitch is noticeably higher and more stressed.
00:43:260 (5,1) - could be emphasized better, compared to these other downbeats yea
00:48:192 (3) - recommend splitting this into two, I like the repeat itself for the scream (+ the guitar is a bit more intense), but like the other guitar sounds, there's two of them on each white tick. so like things on 00:46:484 (3,4), etc, two repeat sliders would fit better here. like - Mmmm sure I can do that. Was mapping to the guitar whirring sound in the back, but i split it onto two 1/4 repeats in the later section so fixed this.
https://puu.sh/wP0rU/189f2a99b4.jpg
^Regarding this, it might also make sense to do it for the ones at like 00:29:347 (5), 00:31:049 (5), etc, since the guitar sound is the same. I think the sounds are different like, the guitar isn't as pronounced, and the hold is quite reasonable considering the density of instruments here and that buzzing sound at the back.
00:52:107 (1) - could be broken into circle+1/2 slider, consistent with...the rest of them in the area lol Yea i agree. Kept this originally because the vocal wasn't as pronounced.
00:53:096 (2) - this slider could be curved upward instead, its not a huge change but this would improve the flow from 1-2-3 in terms of allowing for better slider leniency. pretty optional lol Oh, yea good point
01:40:629 (1,2) - this gonna sound dumb but make 01:40:629 (1) - uglier than 2 because 1 still has the nasty screaming vocal whereas 2 goes back to the other one LOL okay sure.
01:46:197 (3,1) - move these closer? would be better for playability because of the timing. side note, 01:50:506 (3,1) - has a similar issue but the timing isnt as bad so..up to you on this one. same with 01:52:047 (3,1) - Yea, fixed these, ur right the timing makes the rhythm less predictable so lowering spacing helps players have more breathing room.
01:47:749 - shouldnt there be something mapped here? you skipped a sound in the guitar lol. not a lot of time until the offset shift so i can understand not mapping this tho, just wanna make sure its intentional The problem here is theres really not enough time to put something there and still expect players to click the next note, the rhythm isn't predictable due to the weirt timing. When pishi timed this he also recommended not mapping this and instead putting a larger spacing gap here to counteract the gap so thats basically what I did.
02:50:117 (2) - too clean, its part of the "ugly" combo and should be ugly made it ugly
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - I recommend starting this sequence on the top left, (so like 02:55:682 (1,2) - would be the first in the pattern), biggets reason is that the momentum the player has from 02:53:686 (1) - this super fast movement is better transitioned into the jump pattern if the first jumps are parallel to the slider. hope this makes sense lol, as it is now the momentum is kinda lost in the sharp switch in the angle. I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.

I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.

Hobbes2 wrote:

I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.

eh. the repeat slider kinda 'trains' the player with the really fast up down motion so it makes more sense for the first jump to also be up down. sure the movement to the first pair of 1-2 follows this motion, but then the turn after kinda wastes the momentum if that makes any sense.

Hobbes2 wrote:

one last thing, I'd appreciate a higher OD (even 9.7, if not 10). not really sure why yours is so low, read the thread and didnt really see a good explanation.

EDIT - and i gotta check your changes lol
EDIT2 - also, could you reply to yuii in full? makes it easier for transparency and stuff

Naotoshi wrote:

http://itsalmo.st/#alientime

Do not nominate a beatmap if you cannot reasonably judge it. Being able to reasonably play a beatmap is a core part of being able to judge a beatmap’s quality. If you are multiple tiers below the playing level of the map we may call your ability to judge it into question.

Hobbes2 wrote:

If anyone has a concern regarding my ability to judge the map, I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.

Naotoshi wrote:

he's a modder with lots of experience, more kudosu than you, an experienced mapper, and aside from all of that the map has already 50 odd pages of discussion. if you want to objectively quantify and analyze his modding ability, be my guest. after all, you nominated a similar high star map, right? you should know what it takes.

Hobbes2 wrote:

It's worth pointing out that I'm actually quite capable of playing a lot of this map.

SPOILER

hi-mei wrote:

why are u still pushing it, i dont get

community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit

[Taiga] wrote:

hi-mei wrote:

why are u still pushing it, i dont get

community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit

Community voice doesn't matter here.
If map is not breaking ranking criteria and BN/QAT decide it is rankable in term of aesthetics - it can be ranked.

fufu- wrote:

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to

GaterRaider wrote:

monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?

GaterRaider wrote:

monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?

Genjuro wrote:

nice map, i like the concept used where the map is ugly to go with the ugly song, gl with rank

Akitoshi wrote:

What's This?

Xexxar wrote:

This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.

Reconsider your actions.

Ekoro wrote:

this should be nuked

Hobbes2 wrote:

This isn't actually true, lol. Community voice matters a lot. Monstrata did respond to everyone that had a specific concern, which is why I was confident in pushing this forward.

EDIT - Just want to point out that I don't want to involve myself in drama (I didn't bubble this map to start a fight, I did it because I think it deserves to be ranked) so I'm not going to respond to any posts that aren't relevant to the map itself from now.

Ekoro wrote:

this should be nuked

Kynan wrote:

Xexxar wrote:

This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.

Reconsider your actions.

Well fuck, this coming from a guy who speed ranks trash jump maps for the sole reason of being the highest SR TV size map out there (and you probably can't even clear your map as well), is painful to read.

MagicDragon wrote:

Clearly the only solution is to revoke every single BN's rights and start from scratch by giving BN permissions to all the salty 5 and 6 digit players who madpost about maps that give high PP while not being able to make a decent map themselves.

Hobbes2 wrote:

I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.

Gokateigo wrote:

I love you, finnally a good bn who does his job

Gokateigo wrote:

You're 96k, you have 4 pending tv size maps from 11 days ago, your opinion is shit, you have no experience in mapping

+we don't flame the map because of pp (I don't even know how much pp is this shit), it's just an unplayable shitmap with ugly patterns because "lol metal is disgusting anime is better so I'll shitmap this and push it to ranked because a lot of BNs suck my dick"

Kagetsu wrote:

hi

i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.

Hobbes2 wrote:

I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.

i find this argument really basic because everything can be treated as "jumps" or "streams" or whatever thing that comes to your mind. under those ways of thinking, we could promote 500 bpm streams as official content because it would be a very basic stream at 500 bpm (i'm obviously exaggerating for the sake of making the explanation clearer) maps are meant to be played after all.

nothing more to add i guess.

Realazy wrote:

you're 69k with 2 pending maps, don't act like you're even remotely good enough at mapping nor playing to be able to judge this

if it is so unplayable and shitty, how about you mod it or explain why you feel that way other than saying "it's ugly so it must be bad!!"

M a r v o l l o wrote:

I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this. And yeah, 800th post hooray

Naotoshi wrote:

uh. this argument is kind of strange and not really a valid reasoning imo.

consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.

aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."

1. Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
   This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this.
   
2. I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
   
3. PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.

brain damage wrote:

my name is what im getting from you guys here

Gokateigo wrote:

I have a shit ton of non submitted maps and a few gds so stfu ?

brain damage wrote:

my name is what im getting from you guys here

MaridiuS wrote:

Random dude giving opinions, maybe more agree:

1. Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
   This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this.
   
2. I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
   
3. PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.

Eraser wrote:

in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!

Left wrote:

i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol

Mentai wrote:

Left wrote:

i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol