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MAXIMUM THE HORMONE - A-L-I-E-N
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Topic Starter
I realy think the kicksliders fit the music here. Using 1/2 circles is the exact same rhythm, the kicksliders add the emphatic and visual effect that really matches the song here lol.Linada wrote:
Finally
edit:
01:38:915 (1,2,3,4,5) - imo they don't really fit as kicksliders since they're on clear 1/2 since 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - are on incomprehensible screamings
yeah 👀
Hello I've come to save humanity
I actually irc'd with monstrata, but i wrote down all the points I made for clarity since it makes it easier for everyone to see whats changed without digging through a chatlog. ill let monstrata respond to this as usual so you guys can know why he rejected stuff that he did. edit: some stuff here also wasnt in the irc lol
00:23:131 (1,2,3,4,5) - I think you could gradually make these more "ugly", (same with the later ones 00:24:842 (1,2,3,4,5) - etc etc) to ease into the "ugly" concept, instead of shooting it out all at once with 00:27:409 (1) - this mess. The vocals also kinda have that effect over time, so it would fit in that regard too. you do this later too (01:24:577 (2) -section)
00:31:903 (3) - 00:31:475 (1,2,4) - are all quite clear in that the movement is downward, but because is particularly smooshed, i'd make 3 a bit more linear (while still ugly of course xd)
00:36:111 - thought it weird that you skipped this vocal but the next measure maps it (00:37:715 (2,3,4))
00:43:260 (5,1) - could be emphasized better, compared to these other downbeats
00:48:192 (3) - recommend splitting this into two, I like the repeat itself for the scream (+ the guitar is a bit more intense), but like the other guitar sounds, there's two of them on each white tick. so like things on 00:46:484 (3,4), etc, two repeat sliders would fit better here. like -
https://puu.sh/wP0rU/189f2a99b4.jpg
^Regarding this, it might also make sense to do it for the ones at like 00:29:347 (5), 00:31:049 (5), etc, since the guitar sound is the same.
00:52:107 (1) - could be broken into circle+1/2 slider, consistent with...the rest of them in the area lol
00:53:096 (2) - this slider could be curved upward instead, its not a huge change but this would improve the flow from 1-2-3 in terms of allowing for better slider leniency. pretty optional lol
01:40:629 (1,2) - this gonna sound dumb but make 01:40:629 (1) - uglier than 2 because 1 still has the nasty screaming vocal whereas 2 goes back to the other one
01:46:197 (3,1) - move these closer? would be better for playability because of the timing. side note, 01:50:506 (3,1) - has a similar issue but the timing isnt as bad so..up to you on this one. same with 01:52:047 (3,1) -
01:47:749 - shouldnt there be something mapped here? you skipped a sound in the guitar lol. not a lot of time until the offset shift so i can understand not mapping this tho, just wanna make sure its intentional
02:50:117 (2) - too clean, its part of the "ugly" combo and should be ugly
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - I recommend starting this sequence on the top left, (so like 02:55:682 (1,2) - would be the first in the pattern), biggets reason is that the momentum the player has from 02:53:686 (1) - this super fast movement is better transitioned into the jump pattern if the first jumps are parallel to the slider. hope this makes sense lol, as it is now the momentum is kinda lost in the sharp switch in the angle.
I actually irc'd with monstrata, but i wrote down all the points I made for clarity since it makes it easier for everyone to see whats changed without digging through a chatlog. ill let monstrata respond to this as usual so you guys can know why he rejected stuff that he did. edit: some stuff here also wasnt in the irc lol
00:23:131 (1,2,3,4,5) - I think you could gradually make these more "ugly", (same with the later ones 00:24:842 (1,2,3,4,5) - etc etc) to ease into the "ugly" concept, instead of shooting it out all at once with 00:27:409 (1) - this mess. The vocals also kinda have that effect over time, so it would fit in that regard too. you do this later too (01:24:577 (2) -section)
00:31:903 (3) - 00:31:475 (1,2,4) - are all quite clear in that the movement is downward, but because is particularly smooshed, i'd make 3 a bit more linear (while still ugly of course xd)
00:36:111 - thought it weird that you skipped this vocal but the next measure maps it (00:37:715 (2,3,4))
00:43:260 (5,1) - could be emphasized better, compared to these other downbeats
00:48:192 (3) - recommend splitting this into two, I like the repeat itself for the scream (+ the guitar is a bit more intense), but like the other guitar sounds, there's two of them on each white tick. so like things on 00:46:484 (3,4), etc, two repeat sliders would fit better here. like -
https://puu.sh/wP0rU/189f2a99b4.jpg
^Regarding this, it might also make sense to do it for the ones at like 00:29:347 (5), 00:31:049 (5), etc, since the guitar sound is the same.
00:52:107 (1) - could be broken into circle+1/2 slider, consistent with...the rest of them in the area lol
00:53:096 (2) - this slider could be curved upward instead, its not a huge change but this would improve the flow from 1-2-3 in terms of allowing for better slider leniency. pretty optional lol
01:40:629 (1,2) - this gonna sound dumb but make 01:40:629 (1) - uglier than 2 because 1 still has the nasty screaming vocal whereas 2 goes back to the other one
01:46:197 (3,1) - move these closer? would be better for playability because of the timing. side note, 01:50:506 (3,1) - has a similar issue but the timing isnt as bad so..up to you on this one. same with 01:52:047 (3,1) -
01:47:749 - shouldnt there be something mapped here? you skipped a sound in the guitar lol. not a lot of time until the offset shift so i can understand not mapping this tho, just wanna make sure its intentional
02:50:117 (2) - too clean, its part of the "ugly" combo and should be ugly
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - I recommend starting this sequence on the top left, (so like 02:55:682 (1,2) - would be the first in the pattern), biggets reason is that the momentum the player has from 02:53:686 (1) - this super fast movement is better transitioned into the jump pattern if the first jumps are parallel to the slider. hope this makes sense lol, as it is now the momentum is kinda lost in the sharp switch in the angle.
Topic Starter
thanks for saving humanity from aliensHobbes2 wrote:
Hello I've come to save humanity
I actually irc'd with monstrata, but i wrote down all the points I made for clarity since it makes it easier for everyone to see whats changed without digging through a chatlog. ill let monstrata respond to this as usual so you guys can know why he rejected stuff that he did.
00:23:131 (1,2,3,4,5) - I think you could gradually make these more "ugly", (same with the later ones 00:24:842 (1,2,3,4,5) - etc etc) to ease into the "ugly" concept, instead of shooting it out all at once with 00:27:409 (1) - this mess. The vocals also kinda have that effect over time, so it would fit in that regard too. you do this later too (01:24:577 (2) -section) I think the current patterns are fine since there does need to be a reasonable baseline "structure" that gets dismantled. That said, I changed up two sliders to create small visual "hints" for the ugly stuff to come.
00:31:903 (3) - 00:31:475 (1,2,4) - are all quite clear in that the movement is downward, but because is particularly smooshed, i'd make 3 a bit more linear (while still ugly of course xd) Hmmm yea true, the movement is shorter compared to the others. Made the slider more straight.
00:36:111 - thought it weird that you skipped this vocal but the next measure maps it (00:37:715 (2,3,4)) The next measure is more intense and i'd like to create a rhythmic build up too. Next measure the pitch is noticeably higher and more stressed.
00:43:260 (5,1) - could be emphasized better, compared to these other downbeats yea
00:48:192 (3) - recommend splitting this into two, I like the repeat itself for the scream (+ the guitar is a bit more intense), but like the other guitar sounds, there's two of them on each white tick. so like things on 00:46:484 (3,4), etc, two repeat sliders would fit better here. like - Mmmm sure I can do that. Was mapping to the guitar whirring sound in the back, but i split it onto two 1/4 repeats in the later section so fixed this.
https://puu.sh/wP0rU/189f2a99b4.jpg
^Regarding this, it might also make sense to do it for the ones at like 00:29:347 (5), 00:31:049 (5), etc, since the guitar sound is the same. I think the sounds are different like, the guitar isn't as pronounced, and the hold is quite reasonable considering the density of instruments here and that buzzing sound at the back.
00:52:107 (1) - could be broken into circle+1/2 slider, consistent with...the rest of them in the area lol Yea i agree. Kept this originally because the vocal wasn't as pronounced.
00:53:096 (2) - this slider could be curved upward instead, its not a huge change but this would improve the flow from 1-2-3 in terms of allowing for better slider leniency. pretty optional lol Oh, yea good point
01:40:629 (1,2) - this gonna sound dumb but make 01:40:629 (1) - uglier than 2 because 1 still has the nasty screaming vocal whereas 2 goes back to the other one LOL okay sure.
01:46:197 (3,1) - move these closer? would be better for playability because of the timing. side note, 01:50:506 (3,1) - has a similar issue but the timing isnt as bad so..up to you on this one. same with 01:52:047 (3,1) - Yea, fixed these, ur right the timing makes the rhythm less predictable so lowering spacing helps players have more breathing room.
01:47:749 - shouldnt there be something mapped here? you skipped a sound in the guitar lol. not a lot of time until the offset shift so i can understand not mapping this tho, just wanna make sure its intentional The problem here is theres really not enough time to put something there and still expect players to click the next note, the rhythm isn't predictable due to the weirt timing. When pishi timed this he also recommended not mapping this and instead putting a larger spacing gap here to counteract the gap so thats basically what I did.
02:50:117 (2) - too clean, its part of the "ugly" combo and should be ugly made it ugly
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - I recommend starting this sequence on the top left, (so like 02:55:682 (1,2) - would be the first in the pattern), biggets reason is that the momentum the player has from 02:53:686 (1) - this super fast movement is better transitioned into the jump pattern if the first jumps are parallel to the slider. hope this makes sense lol, as it is now the momentum is kinda lost in the sharp switch in the angle. I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.
I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.eh. the repeat slider kinda 'trains' the player with the really fast up down motion so it makes more sense for the first jump to also be up down. sure the movement to the first pair of 1-2 follows this motion, but then the turn after kinda wastes the momentum if that makes any sense.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.
Topic Starter
Okay got the new jump testplayed by Dunois. He agrees the upward movement feels better so i'll fix it to how you suggested. I guess I can kinda see that since yea those three sliders kinda give people the idea that the next movement should be upward so even tho the jump downward looks like it flows well upward is what the player will be thinking is the next movement. Okay pro analysisHobbes2 wrote:
I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.eh. the repeat slider kinda 'trains' the player with the really fast up down motion so it makes more sense for the first jump to also be up down. sure the movement to the first pair of 1-2 follows this motion, but then the turn after kinda wastes the momentum if that makes any sense.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.
one last thing, I'd appreciate a higher OD (even 9.7, if not 10). not really sure why yours is so low, read the thread and didnt really see a good explanation.
EDIT - and i gotta check your changes lol
EDIT2 - also, could you reply to yuii in full? makes it easier for transparency and stuff
EDIT3 - lol he edited his other reply to yuii instead of making a new one
EDIT - and i gotta check your changes lol
EDIT2 - also, could you reply to yuii in full? makes it easier for transparency and stuff
EDIT3 - lol he edited his other reply to yuii instead of making a new one
Topic Starter
OD 9.4 is adequate in terms of dealing with notelock. This map is very largely 1/2 rhythm based so really the only sections that use 1/4 rhythms at this high of a bpm are 02:36:797 - 02:43:239 - . OD 9.4 is enough to counteract the potential notelocking here. A really good thread about notelocking can be found here: t/334458Hobbes2 wrote:
one last thing, I'd appreciate a higher OD (even 9.7, if not 10). not really sure why yours is so low, read the thread and didnt really see a good explanation.
EDIT - and i gotta check your changes lol
EDIT2 - also, could you reply to yuii in full? makes it easier for transparency and stuff
Basically at 280 bpm the recommended minimum OD is 9.3 to avoid notelocking. I went with 9.4 for safe measure but this basically guarantees there will not be any instance of notelocking considering some parts of the map are indeed over 280 bpm (but only for really short sections). 01:44:564 - Is the highest bpm in the map (300) but it's mapped as sliders so theres really no chance of notelocking realistically.
Also, replied to Yuii's mod in full.
https://emojipedia.org/extraterrestrial-alien/
Rebubbling for safety
I've read through this thread and all of the concerns have been properly addressed, so let's give it a go. If anyone has a concern regarding my ability to judge the map, I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
Regarding the aesthetics, I love the concept of this map, using the idea of 'ugly' aesthetics to create contrast. I think it's done well.
So, yeah lol
Rebubbling for safety
I've read through this thread and all of the concerns have been properly addressed, so let's give it a go. If anyone has a concern regarding my ability to judge the map, I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
Regarding the aesthetics, I love the concept of this map, using the idea of 'ugly' aesthetics to create contrast. I think it's done well.
So, yeah lol
i wont close thisNaotoshi wrote:
http://itsalmo.st/#alientime
hey it's ar 10 now good job Proud OF you
i still think od should be like 9.7 or something but whatev
i still think od should be like 9.7 or something but whatev
Do not nominate a beatmap if you cannot reasonably judge it. Being able to reasonably play a beatmap is a core part of being able to judge a beatmap’s quality. If you are multiple tiers below the playing level of the map we may call your ability to judge it into question.
This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.Hobbes2 wrote:
If anyone has a concern regarding my ability to judge the map, I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
Reconsider your actions.
he's a modder with lots of experience, more kudosu than you, an experienced mapper, and aside from all of that the map has already 50 odd pages of discussion. if you want to objectively quantify and analyze his modding ability, be my guest. after all, you nominated a similar high star map, right? you should know what it takes.
An action that I regretted and did not repeat. (also I could pass that map)Naotoshi wrote:
he's a modder with lots of experience, more kudosu than you, an experienced mapper, and aside from all of that the map has already 50 odd pages of discussion. if you want to objectively quantify and analyze his modding ability, be my guest. after all, you nominated a similar high star map, right? you should know what it takes.
why are u still pushing it, i dont get
community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit
community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit
I do think I'm reasonably capable of judging this map. The concepts used in this map, like I said earlier, are not very difficult to understand. They aren't something I don't usually map or mod. Can I pass this map? No. Can I understand it? Yes.
It's worth pointing out that I'm actually quite capable of playing a lot of this map. The parts I fail on would be the extended jump sections, which make up about 5% of the map maybe? The reason I fail these patterns isn't because I don't know how they play, but because I lack the speed necessary to land them. So discrediting my ability to judge this map because of these sections is a bit of a stretch. For those sections, I can analyze the patterns in the editor and be confident in saying they're fine. Not to mention, I did watch quite a few replays of this map when it was Loved.
I understand your concern, but hopefully you can understand my position as well.
It's worth pointing out that I'm actually quite capable of playing a lot of this map. The parts I fail on would be the extended jump sections, which make up about 5% of the map maybe? The reason I fail these patterns isn't because I don't know how they play, but because I lack the speed necessary to land them. So discrediting my ability to judge this map because of these sections is a bit of a stretch. For those sections, I can analyze the patterns in the editor and be confident in saying they're fine. Not to mention, I did watch quite a few replays of this map when it was Loved.
I understand your concern, but hopefully you can understand my position as well.
nice map, i like the concept used where the map is ugly to go with the ugly song, gl with rank
Community voice doesn't matter here.hi-mei wrote:
why are u still pushing it, i dont get
community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit
If map is not breaking ranking criteria and BN/QAT decide it is rankable in term of aesthetics - it can be ranked.
This isn't actually true, lol. Community voice matters a lot. Monstrata did respond to everyone that had a specific concern, which is why I was confident in pushing this forward.[Taiga] wrote:
Community voice doesn't matter here.hi-mei wrote:
why are u still pushing it, i dont get
community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit
If map is not breaking ranking criteria and BN/QAT decide it is rankable in term of aesthetics - it can be ranked.
EDIT - Just want to point out that I don't want to involve myself in drama (I didn't bubble this map to start a fight, I did it because I think it deserves to be ranked) so I'm not going to respond to any posts that aren't relevant to the map itself from now.
00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to
Topic Starter
I have a possible alternative in mind for it, i'll push a quick update tomorrow though after confirming with some players. I like how it plays currently because its arranged in a way where its possible for players to try alternating it instead of single tapping, but essentially the structure is set up to cause really fast counterclockwise flowing movements that break down into rotating/tornado based jumps afterwards.fufu- wrote:
00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to
new bns: pls stop ruining urselves ;w;
anyways gl
anyways gl
monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?
GaterRaider wrote:
monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?
hobbes i ranked 2 of your maps too give me some bubbles thanksGaterRaider wrote:
monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?
wtf dude, this song is pure love, I hear it when I want to sleep :3 anyways /me grabs popcornGenjuro wrote:
nice map, i like the concept used where the map is ugly to go with the ugly song, gl with rank
owoAkitoshi wrote:
What's This?
Well fuck, this coming from a guy who speed ranks trash jump maps for the sole reason of being the highest SR TV size map out there (and you probably can't even clear your map as well), is painful to read.Xexxar wrote:
This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.
Reconsider your actions.
this should be nuked
Responding to people concerns doesn't negate community negative feedback towards map.Hobbes2 wrote:
This isn't actually true, lol. Community voice matters a lot. Monstrata did respond to everyone that had a specific concern, which is why I was confident in pushing this forward.
EDIT - Just want to point out that I don't want to involve myself in drama (I didn't bubble this map to start a fight, I did it because I think it deserves to be ranked) so I'm not going to respond to any posts that aren't relevant to the map itself from now.
As I said - if something is right with ranking criteria and doesn't break guidelines, it is perfectly rankable.
Community feedback have nothing to do in this case. Only thing what people can do is play it as qualified and vote 1 star at the end.
Don't mix "community feedback" as reaction of majority towards certain event with "feedback about map" in term of modding.
yes, Loctav help us pleaseEkoro wrote:
this should be nuked
Clearly the only solution is to revoke every single BN's rights and start from scratch by giving BN permissions to all the salty 5 and 6 digit players who madpost about maps that give high PP while not being able to make a decent map themselves.
You know, because self important contrarian nerds are so much better at judging beatmap than players who have been active in the mapping community for a while.
Also really gotta love the in-fighting in the BN group, that's really appropriate to have in a public forum instead of a private discussion.
(in all seriousness though, the incivility really needs to go)
You know, because self important contrarian nerds are so much better at judging beatmap than players who have been active in the mapping community for a while.
Also really gotta love the in-fighting in the BN group, that's really appropriate to have in a public forum instead of a private discussion.
(in all seriousness though, the incivility really needs to go)
Guys can we stop the discussion, it's not going to bring us anywhere at the moment. Best is to mod it during qualified to get it DQd and have the process reset each time.
Just let Monstrata inflate his ego a little more and move on, no one will look at this map after a month or so. It doesn't leave up for enough fun or unique experience during gameplay so no actual player in the right mind will play this again.
note this is a meme dont take this too seriously
Just let Monstrata inflate his ego a little more and move on, no one will look at this map after a month or so. It doesn't leave up for enough fun or unique experience during gameplay so no actual player in the right mind will play this again.
note this is a meme dont take this too seriously
There we go once again
/me grabs popcorn and sits near the other guy with it
/me grabs popcorn and sits near the other guy with it
welcome back to Osu kynan, glad to have you here for the daily unwarranted saltKynan wrote:
Well fuck, this coming from a guy who speed ranks trash jump maps for the sole reason of being the highest SR TV size map out there (and you probably can't even clear your map as well), is painful to read.Xexxar wrote:
This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.
Reconsider your actions.
You're 96k, you have 4 pending tv size maps from 11 days ago, your opinion is shit, you have no experience in mappingMagicDragon wrote:
Clearly the only solution is to revoke every single BN's rights and start from scratch by giving BN permissions to all the salty 5 and 6 digit players who madpost about maps that give high PP while not being able to make a decent map themselves.
+we don't flame the map because of pp (I don't even know how much pp is this shit), it's just an unplayable shitmap with ugly patterns because "lol metal is disgusting anime is better so I'll shitmap this and push it to ranked because a lot of BNs suck my dick"
May I qualify this? I find myself very proficient of doing such job! I will be pleased if you would allo-
Oh...
Oh...
hi
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.
nothing more to add i guess.
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.
i find this argument really basic because everything can be treated as "jumps" or "streams" or whatever thing that comes to your mind. under those ways of thinking, we could promote 500 bpm streams as official content because it would be a very basic stream at 500 bpm (i'm obviously exaggerating for the sake of making the explanation clearer) maps are meant to be played after all.Hobbes2 wrote:
I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
nothing more to add i guess.
lol, vetoing map just because it's unplayable, then let's unrank all Mazzerin's maps.
@Kagetsu can you be more specific pls or atleast point out the issues you have with the map?
Loved when?
this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
lol what
niхуia тi рeт@рDGokateigo wrote:
I love you, finnally a good bn who does his job
It never ends
keep it in Loved please >.<
Ariana_old_1
uh. this argument is kind of strange and not really a valid reasoning imo.
consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.
aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."
consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.
aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."
you're 69k with 2 pending maps, don't act like you're even remotely good enough at mapping nor playing to be able to judge thisGokateigo wrote:
You're 96k, you have 4 pending tv size maps from 11 days ago, your opinion is shit, you have no experience in mapping
+we don't flame the map because of pp (I don't even know how much pp is this shit), it's just an unplayable shitmap with ugly patterns because "lol metal is disgusting anime is better so I'll shitmap this and push it to ranked because a lot of BNs suck my dick"
if it is so unplayable and shitty, how about you mod it or explain why you feel that way other than saying "it's ugly so it must be bad!!"
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Potentially first Beatmap thread to reach 1k posts? You decide!
I think a major difference between a 500bpm long stream (or even a stream with 32 circles) and the difficult parts of this map is that every part of this map is proved to be FCable while its almost impossible to fc a 500bpm stream with one hand two fingers......
Topic Starter
Ca you tell me how this map has been demonstrated unrankable while it was Loved? Because all those A scores with over 93% acc say otherwise... Vaxei even passed this map on DT. If Loved is any indicator, it's an indicator that people can actually play the map so yes, I really do appreciate you giving more details about your veto, and at least which areas you think require work. The map isn't overdone in any way, if you disagree please point them out. I am ranking this map because of the concept, not because I want to rank the hardest map in the game, that was over a long time ago, and you've even nominated maps with a higher star rating (and the same bpm) as this.Kagetsu wrote:
hi
i'm vetoing this because i think it doesn't fit the ranked section, this map has proven to be unplayable while being in the loved section and it's pretty clear that even though people can pass it, its playability is far from being acceptable.
i do agree that the map concept is cool and i liked how you managed to structure your irregular shapes to represent the tougher sections of the music, but at the same time, i dislike how overdone the map is. you might be thinking that distance is subjective, and there's no limit to express the song intensity, which is in part true. what most of people would agree with, though, is that 280~ bpm full screen jumps aren't approachable even for the top part of the playerbase.i find this argument really basic because everything can be treated as "jumps" or "streams" or whatever thing that comes to your mind. under those ways of thinking, we could promote 500 bpm streams as official content because it would be a very basic stream at 500 bpm (i'm obviously exaggerating for the sake of making the explanation clearer) maps are meant to be played after all.Hobbes2 wrote:
I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.
nothing more to add i guess.
Also 280 bpm jumps is very much approachable to top players. You really underestimate people's skill. Look at all the DT plays we have. In any case, I know you don't want to wallmod, but give me which areas are prompting you to veto, or at least tell me that I can counter the veto simply by asking another BN to nominate.
who would want something different in the ranked section like people always want, people much prefer anime tv sizes in there.
ill just remind you guys that promethean kings is ranked and it has very few passes
//800 post xd
<3
//800 post xd
<3
I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this. And yeah, 800th post hooray 
I have a shit ton of non submitted maps and a few gds so stfu ?Realazy wrote:
you're 69k with 2 pending maps, don't act like you're even remotely good enough at mapping nor playing to be able to judge this
if it is so unplayable and shitty, how about you mod it or explain why you feel that way other than saying "it's ugly so it must be bad!!"
Yeah, I think this veto was uncalled for especially without any reason given but because Kagetsu thinks it is too hard for top players.M a r v o l l o wrote:
I think everyone can make mistake, so imo Kagetsu should remove his veto because he didn't provide any really valid reason. Sad that I amn't a member of BNG, I would nominate this.And yeah, 800th post hooray
And you got sniped on that 800th post real good.
our real heroNaotoshi wrote:
uh. this argument is kind of strange and not really a valid reasoning imo.
consider that throughout osu's history, players have been constantly improving.
remember this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/1173 was once considered very difficult, and is now more or less trivial.
similarly, freedom dive was mapped under the premise of being impossible to pass, and here we are with numerous fcs on it.
a bit ago, ephemeralfetish attempted to rank the empress, an 8.78 star map which was also ridiculously hard to play, containing 270 bpm deathstreams; you supported it.
not to mention promethean kings like... exists. which is, as we can see from the leaderboard on that one, significantly harder than this map; one of the highest plays is a 65% acc pass done entirely by mashing.
aside from the fact that this argument has been proven again and again to be invalid in rankability, you didn't really suggest any solutions. should he just nerf the ending ("ending") jumps from being fullscreen? he's already done that, but are they not nerfed enough? is the concept of a high sr 280 bpm map inherently unrankable? please elaborate so he has the opportunity to respond rather than just being slammed into a brick wall that says "too hard, vetoed, bye."
Random dude giving opinions, maybe more agree:
- Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this. - I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
- PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.
brain damage wrote:
my name is what im getting from you guys here
and that could apply to that other guy you replied to. see how dumb that was?Gokateigo wrote:
I have a shit ton of non submitted maps and a few gds so stfu ?
brain damage wrote:
my name is what im getting from you guys here
in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!MaridiuS wrote:
Random dude giving opinions, maybe more agree:
- Since osu! is completely community driven game, and QAT's functions are much less utilized, I believe that maps should follow the community's stuff.
This map caused a lot of controversy, and after being passive for a while, people were alright with that. But even with that much spiked hate for the map (be it logical, or blind hate), you still go to rank this map, causing even more controversy and hate. Usually when a maps gets in a ranking state, everybody is happy with that, sometimes there's controversy like in HW maps, but it gets somewhat more agreement with mappers and players. This is complete chaos, we're not even close to understanding how much people are happy or mad with this map. Meaning I think monstrata you should chill out, and move on, even if it may look unjustified to you, that's how the world works against masses. So I think you should just let this map go, I don't see much accomplished by ranking this.- I usually like to say, if a mapper bases his map on overlaps, he can't simply get away with every possible overlap. Not every overlap is good, and sometimes its just too extreme. Similar thing I could say for this map, as you kinda term it as "ugly", which i could kinda agree on some sliders. If you say its based on that, that doesn't mean you can go with the ugliest sliders ever, but should be toned down a bit to have some aesthetic value over some "art" "song is going like that" stuff.
- PS, I think the playability is fine, it follows logical patterns fitting the intensity of the song. Rhythm perfectly follows it, it's just the ugly sliders that i'm against of.
@Kagetsu you will need to elaborate on what the issue is and how to fix it
as it stands this is a "I veto this cuz i dislike" without any explanation whatsoever because people being unable to play it atm doesnt mean people will be unable to play it in the future
so please provide more concrete reasoning for this veto
@thread
stop shitposting don't give me headaches
thanks
as it stands this is a "I veto this cuz i dislike" without any explanation whatsoever because people being unable to play it atm doesnt mean people will be unable to play it in the future
so please provide more concrete reasoning for this veto
@thread
stop shitposting don't give me headaches
thanks
Just fucking rank the map already geez, you know it's getting ranked anyway.
MONSTRATA, PAY ATTENTION HERE, THERE'S A STUFF YOU COULD FIX
btw, just noticed, you turned on widescreen but I don't see sb here so I think you should turn it off.
btw, just noticed, you turned on widescreen but I don't see sb here so I think you should turn it off.
hi
can smeone lock this shit till kagetsu responds or something
edit: widescreen is irrelevant since there's no storyboard anyway ?_?
can smeone lock this shit till kagetsu responds or something
edit: widescreen is irrelevant since there's no storyboard anyway ?_?
Not really asking for a complete change of sliders, jsut a few less curves on them, and a bit less randomness might be the way to go IMO,Eraser wrote:
in other words: plz change your sliders to nice looking curves with blankets because fuck your core idea of this map!
Yes it's irrelevant but we usually disable it when we don't have any sb so I suggest to do so here
edit: wtf while I was typing this reply 3 new posts came lol
edit: wtf while I was typing this reply 3 new posts came lol
feel free to like, give suggestions on how you think he should instead of just spewing random words and calling me autistic then =(
Everyone can show their opinion and give suggestions if they are actually valid
Left wrote:
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Mentai wrote:
Left wrote:
i hated this map before, but now i support this map lol
Greetings fellow person who is lapping up this cesspool of condescension, drama, toxicity, and memes
May I have some of your popcorn
Hobbes you're a fucking masochist why would you do this to yourself
...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main concerns of the map appear to be aesthetics and playability. Obviously, I probably cannot judge the latter concept very well since I'm not very good at the game (dirty 30k haitai farming scrub amirite), but many mappers in this thread seem to be discontent with, quite simply, how ugly this map is. It looks like a piece of shit, and I believe anyone who disagrees is either blatantly lying, or has terrible taste.
Personally, I also firmly believe that aesthetics is a core concept of mapping, and is not to just be ignored and done sloppily out of laziness or apathy, simply because it's "subjective" or for a petty reason like arrogance, as some people seem to accuse.
Taking that into account, though, aesthetics's main purpose is not to structure the map, but represent the song through visuals (although these can be interchangeable based on the map, but it's pretty obvious which is the case here lol).
There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)
Point being, the song should make the map, if it's a good map. Although I can't be as confident on the execution, I fully support Monstrata's concepts because of this basic reason in mapping.
As for playability, I'm out of my league here (and don't want to debate this xd), so I'll leave that to the people who are experienced with maps of this difficulty, people who are experienced playing maps of this difficulty, and of course, people who are neither but still try to act like an authority even though have not enough or even no idea of what they're talking about!(!!!)
You may say Monstrata's simply using the song as an excuse to be sloppy and lazy. Of course a map that is designed to be one of the hardest in the game in terms of sheer difficulty would be controversial if it doesn't build on a fundamental concept of mapping, but utterly destroys it. Or, maybe you're actually right. Maybe Monstrata is actually attempting to disrespect other mappers, and he intentionally mapped a meme. Or, maybe he deliberately shitmapped this song and watches with glee as how much drama this map has generated; similarly to controversial modern art, because that's what this is in the mapping world. Maybe all of these things are true.
As someone who hasn't kept up with whatever drama occurs on the forums, I am only concerned with how this map is tailored to play to the song; and if whatever outside reason others may give coincides with that, then personally I couldn't care less. What I believe doesn't matter nearly as much as some others, though.
Just a poor mapper's contribution to this shitstorm of a map thread. I was bored this morning! I'm very curious as to see how this map will progress (or lack of), along with when the thread will hit 1k posts (my bet is by this Sunday). Best of luck, Monstrata.
May I have some of your popcorn
Hobbes you're a fucking masochist why would you do this to yourself
...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main concerns of the map appear to be aesthetics and playability. Obviously, I probably cannot judge the latter concept very well since I'm not very good at the game (dirty 30k haitai farming scrub amirite), but many mappers in this thread seem to be discontent with, quite simply, how ugly this map is. It looks like a piece of shit, and I believe anyone who disagrees is either blatantly lying, or has terrible taste.
Personally, I also firmly believe that aesthetics is a core concept of mapping, and is not to just be ignored and done sloppily out of laziness or apathy, simply because it's "subjective" or for a petty reason like arrogance, as some people seem to accuse.
Taking that into account, though, aesthetics's main purpose is not to structure the map, but represent the song through visuals (although these can be interchangeable based on the map, but it's pretty obvious which is the case here lol).
There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)
Point being, the song should make the map, if it's a good map. Although I can't be as confident on the execution, I fully support Monstrata's concepts because of this basic reason in mapping.
As for playability, I'm out of my league here (and don't want to debate this xd), so I'll leave that to the people who are experienced with maps of this difficulty, people who are experienced playing maps of this difficulty, and of course, people who are neither but still try to act like an authority even though have not enough or even no idea of what they're talking about!(!!!)
You may say Monstrata's simply using the song as an excuse to be sloppy and lazy. Of course a map that is designed to be one of the hardest in the game in terms of sheer difficulty would be controversial if it doesn't build on a fundamental concept of mapping, but utterly destroys it. Or, maybe you're actually right. Maybe Monstrata is actually attempting to disrespect other mappers, and he intentionally mapped a meme. Or, maybe he deliberately shitmapped this song and watches with glee as how much drama this map has generated; similarly to controversial modern art, because that's what this is in the mapping world. Maybe all of these things are true.
As someone who hasn't kept up with whatever drama occurs on the forums, I am only concerned with how this map is tailored to play to the song; and if whatever outside reason others may give coincides with that, then personally I couldn't care less. What I believe doesn't matter nearly as much as some others, though.
Just a poor mapper's contribution to this shitstorm of a map thread. I was bored this morning! I'm very curious as to see how this map will progress (or lack of), along with when the thread will hit 1k posts (my bet is by this Sunday). Best of luck, Monstrata.
I don't really like jumps on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - considering 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - because pattern on 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesn't move.. like the jumps are static in the same side of the screen unlike the others that makes a movement, it fits the song. but 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - doesnt do that. I think something like this would fit better and keep the idea of that moving Im talking about to fit the guitar https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8647226
01:07:259 (1) - check timing on this I think its a bit late
01:07:259 (1) - check timing on this I think its a bit late
stop stop veto popping
mod
- 00:01:621 - this sound fuck my ears, if you want to map ugly things don't do a perfect curve
- 00:17:766 (1,2,3,4) - nice curves/square for an ugly map
- 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - perfect pentagons are bad for an ugly map
- 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - back and forths fit better here and it'll be moe playable
- 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
- 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
- 01:06:090 (1) - this spinner is full of strong sounds
- 01:10:902 (1) - ^
- 01:15:702 (1) - ^
- 01:23:493 (1) - ctrl g ? + redo the pattern if you do it
- 01:25:434 (6) - map something ugly here the vocals are different
- 01:27:148 (5) - ^
- 01:28:862 (5) - ^
- 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this (and the other similar patterns) are the worst thing in the map, you can do ugly things which look good, you should do ugly slider-same slider reversed-ugly slider-... it'll look good but it'll be ugly
- 01:41:487 (1) - for all this part : nc on bpm changes
- 02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - do a normal jump maybe ? the sounds are strong and this part is pretty calm
- 02:25:494 (1,2,3,4,5) - it's not enough spaced, it's just before a fast part
- 02:51:908 (1,1) - make this possible to hit with a point where you can put your cusor and wait, it's pretty hard at 280bpm
- 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - all the transition snares have a little spacing but this one is cross screen and really hard to play, why ?
- 03:07:390 (1) - it reminds me of ugly sliders,... in the calm part
- 03:15:390 (1,2) - clockwise 03:16:390 (3,4,5,6) - counter clockwise, why ?
- 03:31:498 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ^ but goes counter clockwise/clockwise
- 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - "ugly" part callback and it's perfect squares, it should be a bit ugly
- 04:09:581 - this part is singed by the guy of the ugly part, it should be (again) a bit ugly
- 04:32:302 (1,2,3,4) - nc
- 04:33:754 (1) - (and similar sliders) no, it's just bad, all the stop stop before are 2 normal sliders, but it changes at a random moment
my opinion
gl I guessThis map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
brain damage wrote:
my name is what im getting from you guys here
wtf are you stating he never said something like that in the first placeGokateigo wrote:
This map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting
he just wanted to make a huge contrast between the first part of the song which is super messy and the second part which is calm and cute
calm your frucking tits wtf and stop making poeple say what they never said
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious. He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin did with PK, it'll be way better than this
With all the shitmaps we can see nowadays, I think this beatmap can reach the ranked section.
Because the map itself isn't bad, and the contrast between the both part is very well done. If it's how he want to express his point of view about the music, why are you trying to change Monstrata's mind?
Because the map itself isn't bad, and the contrast between the both part is very well done. If it's how he want to express his point of view about the music, why are you trying to change Monstrata's mind?
I don't think he wanted to make it ugly, but more something weird, fast and tricky, as the song would be. As I said before, it's his POV on this song.Gokateigo wrote:
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious. He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin did with PK, it'll be way better than this
i know you love Mazzerin a lot but the mapper here is Monstrata and not Mazzerin, why would he map like him.Gokateigo wrote:
He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin
You're right, Monstrata maps a lot of things like alien right ?Linada wrote:
i know you love Mazzerin a lot but the mapper here is Monstrata and not Mazzerin, why would he map like him.Gokateigo wrote:
He can make a contrast with difficulty, like Mazzerin
I think it is perfectly reasonable to map it this way yet not think metal is ugly. The "beautiful part" is calm and structured with a progression and typical chords so it is mapped in an ordered way. The "metal part" has a lot going on with many seemingly random spikes of intensity, thus it is mapped in the same fashion. It doesn't mean Monstrata likes nor dislikes metal, it just means he was mapping the song.Gokateigo wrote:
If you make a contrast with beautiful/ugly mapping you obviously think one part is ugly and the other one is beautiful, seems obvious.
Telling him to map like mazzerin won't change anything, because this song is quite different to the stuff that mazzerin maps.Gokateigo wrote:
my opinionThis map sucks tbh, you shitmapped a huge part because you think metal is disgusting, Mazzerin maps death metal and thinks song representation is more important than aesthetics. His maps are NOT ugly af, they are a bit ugly sometimes (with really ugly sounds, not everything) but his style fits very well to metal, you should map something similar to his style in the "ugly" part and map ugly sliders when they are in the middle of the calm part because you can't change your style for 2 objects. If you map something like this I'll bee happy if it's ranked, it's just a random shit map atm for me
Monstrata didn't shitmap this map, he's explained quite clearly why he's mapped it the way this is, so stop tying to get him to change that because that's not going to happen