MrMenda wrote:

Seems this is coming back? (Nao's mod)

P.D.: This thread is pure gold, I loved it from the beginning to the end

pishifat wrote:

no memes here

unloved as requested

Naotoshi wrote:

[this is a loved map why am i modding]
00:19:486 (1) - minor but wouldnt it make sense to separate these more visually cuz drums Can't really separate them xP. I think it's fine as is.

00:55:579 (1) - makes sense to have flow break here right? but it's still a ccw cursor motion The whole section doesn't actually utilize flowbreaks that much. The sliders are set up so that if you use slider-leniency they should actually flow well, which is what you see here when you see ccw cursor motion instead of flowbreak.

00:59:444 - how come these spacings are now larger than the phrase right before? like this is looking like quaver to me >.> increase in spacing but same in song Agreed. Actually some people pointed it out earlier, so I made some more spacing adjustments to make the spacing more justified

01:24:363 (1) - shouldnt this b a repeat slider too No, because the drums kick in here.

01:43:490 (1,2) - add more gray points Yea, did this with some other sliders too.

02:39:463 (10,1) - you should rearrange this pattern a bit so that these are stacked - it's done that way the other times, and a 1/1 jump here is kinda weird Yea agreed. Remapped this pattern.

04:37:276 (3,1) - see if you can avoid this overlap? I can't xP It's blanketing the T, but I changed some of the previous patterns to set up the symmetry a bit better.

Mismagius wrote:

00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Why is this symmetric? Everyone knows symmetry is beautiful, so this doesn't apply to the concept of the map. Move one of the notes 1 grid left so it's not symmetrical anymore.
01:24:577 (2,3,4,5) - Same here.

quaternary wrote:

Is it just me, or is the timing is a little bit late starting from 03:53:600 ? Adjusted offset slightly.

I get lots of 100s and if I play the song in the editor, it doesn't match well. Especially the reverse arrow on 04:33:754 (1) - , it sounds super late. It's on sync with the vocal which iswhat im folllowing given the S T O P sliders xD

Edit: You might also want to use a custom sound to mute the sliderticks on 04:45:311 (1) - Fixed this

fieryrage wrote:

04:44:784 (1) - isnt the bpm here 120 lo

1. 00:33:832 (4) - Not sure if this is irrelevant, but red sliderpoint goes 1 pixel offgrid. Better safe than sorry!
2. 00:35:361 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - That old post was actually me just meme'ing, but in this case it really doesn't make sense to make 2 perfect triangles (unless you're memeing as well). Even for beat emphasis purposes, I believe spacing 00:35:790 (1) - more will make this pattern not.. "stand out" in a bad way.
3. 00:38:784 (5,6) - I know the whole point of the map is to make use of "unusual" or ugly patterns, but from a player standpoint, I'd really like if these two were ctrl+g'd so it's more comfortable to play while keeping the aesthetics like that & not ruining the emphasis. If you apply this, then I suppose ctrl+g'ing (7,8) will be necessary as well.
4. I'm going to assume that the slightly unadjusted stacks such as 00:44:663 (4,6) - and 00:47:449 (3,1) - are intentional to keep with the map's aesthetic, so I won't really be bugging you with these
5. 00:53:425 (1,2,3,4) - If you're actually taking my symmetry-meme post seriously, then I guess these should be un-symmetrified as well.
6. 01:06:090 (1) - and 01:10:902 (1) - and 01:15:702 (1) - I personally feel like the first beat on these should be clickable, as it's a pretty strong one and presents a change in rhythm.
7. 01:25:434 (6) - Pretty much every slider in all the other occasions of this rhythm were more curved/bizarre to emphasize the scream properly, however this one looks fairly normal. May want to change it up a bit
8. 01:28:862 (5) - ^ Same. I know inconsistency may be intentional, but in these cases it just feels awkward since it was like 6 times of weird sliders and 2 times of fairly normal sliders.
9. 01:52:133 (1) - As much as the path is -technically- clear, I tend to misread this slider because of the sharp curve at the start. Personally, I'd like it to be something like this, where it keeps a similar aesthetic while not being as frustrating for the player.
10. 02:11:659 (2) - Well, this is much more offgrid, but I guess it's not off the playfield. Again, better safe than sorry! Anyways, my big issue here is that this slider is pretty much perfectly blanketing with the previous one, and this looks... aesthetically nice. Not memeing here, but it kinda contrasts a bit with the rest of the map, since I believe it's the only time where it happens.
11. 02:27:612 (1) - Similar issue to 01:52, but in this case, well, it's kinda deserving of an unusual shape.
12. 02:30:492 (8) - Same issue, but ugh I just keep sliderbreaking here. Honestly I feel like this doesn't need to be emphasized so much with the shape you're using, IMO it wouldn't be too bad if you just used a similar shape as the other sliders in the combo.
13. 02:44:569 (1) - For the intensity of the song, this slider seems fairly simple in my opinion. Maybe make it a more exotic shape, like all the others in this section? This one really stands out.

Mismagius wrote:

1. 00:33:832 (4) - Not sure if this is irrelevant, but red sliderpoint goes 1 pixel offgrid. Better safe than sorry! Thats fine.
2. 00:35:361 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - That old post was actually me just meme'ing, but in this case it really doesn't make sense to make 2 perfect triangles (unless you're memeing as well). Even for beat emphasis purposes, I believe spacing 00:35:790 (1) - more will make this pattern not.. "stand out" in a bad way. These are fine xP. Not literally everything has to be messed up. It's actually good that these aren't messy yet so you can see the structure actually breaking apart.
3. 00:38:784 (5,6) - I know the whole point of the map is to make use of "unusual" or ugly patterns, but from a player standpoint, I'd really like if these two were ctrl+g'd so it's more comfortable to play while keeping the aesthetics like that & not ruining the emphasis. If you apply this, then I suppose ctrl+g'ing (7,8) will be necessary as well. No i disagree, keeping them like this is better for play. It's got better flow and plays on wide angle movement that slowly becomes bigger and sharper.
4. I'm going to assume that the slightly unadjusted stacks such as 00:44:663 (4,6) - and 00:47:449 (3,1) - are intentional to keep with the map's aesthetic, so I won't really be bugging you with these Yea.
5. 00:53:425 (1,2,3,4) - If you're actually taking my symmetry-meme post seriously, then I guess these should be un-symmetrified as well. This is fine imo because theres not enough symmetry to make it feel like a pattern. also the entry and ext movement going to this and comout out of this pattern are not symmetrical so the effect is really lost imo,
6. 01:06:090 (1) - and 01:10:902 (1) - and 01:15:702 (1) - I personally feel like the first beat on these should be clickable, as it's a pretty strong one and presents a change in rhythm. I still want enough time for players to be able to spin at a relatively slower speed. The current time frame doesn't allow for a lot of spin time and forcing players to spin extrmeely fast to get 300 on these sounds isn't good. The forcing of high speed movement doesn't really fit xp
7. 01:25:434 (6) - Pretty much every slider in all the other occasions of this rhythm were more curved/bizarre to emphasize the scream properly, however this one looks fairly normal. May want to change it up a bit It's necessary in order to establish structure being broken as the vocals intensify.
   
8. 01:28:862 (5) - ^ Same. I know inconsistency may be intentional, but in these cases it just feels awkward since it was like 6 times of weird sliders and 2 times of fairly normal sliders. ^ The shift begins at 01:30:362 - for example.
9. 01:52:133 (1) - As much as the path is -technically- clear, I tend to misread this slider because of the sharp curve at the start. Personally, I'd like it to be something like this, where it keeps a similar aesthetic while not being as frustrating for the player. Okay changed it.
10. 02:11:659 (2) - Well, this is much more offgrid, but I guess it's not off the playfield. Again, better safe than sorry! Anyways, my big issue here is that this slider is pretty much perfectly blanketing with the previous one, and this looks... aesthetically nice. Not memeing here, but it kinda contrasts a bit with the rest of the map, since I believe it's the only time where it happens. Made it not perfectly blanket, but the slider is fine offgrid...
11. 02:27:612 (1) - Similar issue to 01:52, but in this case, well, it's kinda deserving of an unusual shape. You kinda answered it. This is fine.
12. 02:30:492 (8) - Same issue, but ugh I just keep sliderbreaking here. Honestly I feel like this doesn't need to be emphasized so much with the shape you're using, IMO it wouldn't be too bad if you just used a similar shape as the other sliders in the combo. This is fine. If you sliderbreak then it's just you honestly xP.
13. 02:44:569 (1) - For the intensity of the song, this slider seems fairly simple in my opinion. Maybe make it a more exotic shape, like all the others in this section? This one really stands out. The shape doesn't really create more intensity anyways xP. I think the curve-based shape is fine, and using red nodes and bumps isn't necessary, nor does that contribute to the effect you want anyways imo.

Rest is the normal part where things get pretty consistent and there's not anything important to mention there, I guess

good luck

F1r3tar wrote:

technically, this isn't at least 5:00 drain time since you've got over four seconds of silence after the second spinner

Pachiru wrote:

MrMenda wrote:

Seems this is coming back? (Nao's mod)

P.D.: This thread is pure gold, I loved it from the beginning to the end

he is just memeing

Yuii- wrote:

00:00:838 (1) - would rather not have this as a normal addition, too much volume for what you're mapping to. either go with soft sampleset or run a lower volume. could also not silence the sliderslider, that's quite e
also, both sliderticks and sliderslides being silent at the beginning pogchamp reduced the volume to 20%
feedback there pls
01:01:151 (3,4,5,6) - no contrast between 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ? hey, this was mapped in 2016!! I made the jumps smaller here and more rotational to contrast with the vertical/zigzag movement of the later jumps.
01:24:577 (2) - minor but i thought you were aiming for non-repeat vocal sliders with new combos and stuffzzz Nao convinced me otherwise,
cuz basically even tho there's a drum beat, the vocal doesn't kick in until the measure after which is what really counts in terms of rhythmic contrast here.
01:33:991 - you better lower the volume of the dumbos ticks reduced the volume to 35%
01:37:737 (6) - you'd probably say how you're trying to map it consistently with 01:36:022 (5) - but (6) sounds actually very different, both guitar, drums and vocals have a bigger prominence at the white tick. so maybe a 1/2 repeat? I'd prefer the 1/1 slider here just because the vocal is snapped rather weirdly, and I think the current bend helps capture the sound pretty well. Also the 1/1 rhythm is more consistent with the rest of the structure here.
Lastly it creates a buffer for the 1/4 kickslider section afterwards
02:13:776 (1,2,3) - too much Yea, made the jumps smaller
03:13:946 - you 5% Done

you know what to do

Monstrata wrote:

For Loctav's Love.

Strykerto wrote:

Can you explain the reasoning for AR 9.7 instead of 10, unless you want this to be a reading challenge.

You've probably mentioned why in the previous 47 pages somewhere, but fuc that

Strykerto wrote:

Can you explain the reasoning for AR 9.7 instead of 10, unless you want this to be a reading challenge.

You've probably mentioned why in the previous 47 pages somewhere, but fuc that

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

if u look through the thread ull find the answer i believe :>

Mini Gaunt wrote:

Iirc something about ar 10 being to much for the whinny upload part

Strykerto wrote:

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

if u look through the thread ull find the answer i believe :>

I'd rather have a more productive day tbh :>

Mini Gaunt wrote:

Iirc something about ar 10 being to much for the whinny upload part

This is probably the reason why, even though i think its a pretty dumb reason. Ur making 80% of the map difficult to read just so 20% is easier to read, and anyone who can pass that far can read AR 10 anyway. Basically, i find AR 9.7 pretty pointless unless you want it to be challenging to read.

I'm rambling about AR smh

Regardless, GL Monstrata with Rank!

Monstrata wrote:

To make the high bpm part even more messy. The central theme of this map is to create really messy sliders and patterns during the metal section, and then regress to my usual pretty and well-structured mapping style for the moe/anime stop stop winny upload section. So essentially, ugly section, then pretty section. Low AR's allow for more objects on the map, which contributes to more messiness in the metal section, and it makes the later half of the map less forced and more normal/acceptable/natural.

Hope that covers it. I might increase it to AR 10 again if enough people complain about the readability aspect though xD.

Linada wrote:

Finally

edit:
01:38:915 (1,2,3,4,5) - imo they don't really fit as kicksliders since they're on clear 1/2 since 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - are on incomprehensible screamings

yeah 👀

Hobbes2 wrote:

Hello I've come to save humanity

I actually irc'd with monstrata, but i wrote down all the points I made for clarity since it makes it easier for everyone to see whats changed without digging through a chatlog. ill let monstrata respond to this as usual so you guys can know why he rejected stuff that he did.

00:23:131 (1,2,3,4,5) - I think you could gradually make these more "ugly", (same with the later ones 00:24:842 (1,2,3,4,5) - etc etc) to ease into the "ugly" concept, instead of shooting it out all at once with 00:27:409 (1) - this mess. The vocals also kinda have that effect over time, so it would fit in that regard too. you do this later too (01:24:577 (2) -section) I think the current patterns are fine since there does need to be a reasonable baseline "structure" that gets dismantled. That said, I changed up two sliders to create small visual "hints" for the ugly stuff to come.
00:31:903 (3) - 00:31:475 (1,2,4) - are all quite clear in that the movement is downward, but because is particularly smooshed, i'd make 3 a bit more linear (while still ugly of course xd) Hmmm yea true, the movement is shorter compared to the others. Made the slider more straight.
00:36:111 - thought it weird that you skipped this vocal but the next measure maps it (00:37:715 (2,3,4)) The next measure is more intense and i'd like to create a rhythmic build up too. Next measure the pitch is noticeably higher and more stressed.
00:43:260 (5,1) - could be emphasized better, compared to these other downbeats yea
00:48:192 (3) - recommend splitting this into two, I like the repeat itself for the scream (+ the guitar is a bit more intense), but like the other guitar sounds, there's two of them on each white tick. so like things on 00:46:484 (3,4), etc, two repeat sliders would fit better here. like - Mmmm sure I can do that. Was mapping to the guitar whirring sound in the back, but i split it onto two 1/4 repeats in the later section so fixed this.
https://puu.sh/wP0rU/189f2a99b4.jpg
^Regarding this, it might also make sense to do it for the ones at like 00:29:347 (5), 00:31:049 (5), etc, since the guitar sound is the same. I think the sounds are different like, the guitar isn't as pronounced, and the hold is quite reasonable considering the density of instruments here and that buzzing sound at the back.
00:52:107 (1) - could be broken into circle+1/2 slider, consistent with...the rest of them in the area lol Yea i agree. Kept this originally because the vocal wasn't as pronounced.
00:53:096 (2) - this slider could be curved upward instead, its not a huge change but this would improve the flow from 1-2-3 in terms of allowing for better slider leniency. pretty optional lol Oh, yea good point
01:40:629 (1,2) - this gonna sound dumb but make 01:40:629 (1) - uglier than 2 because 1 still has the nasty screaming vocal whereas 2 goes back to the other one LOL okay sure.
01:46:197 (3,1) - move these closer? would be better for playability because of the timing. side note, 01:50:506 (3,1) - has a similar issue but the timing isnt as bad so..up to you on this one. same with 01:52:047 (3,1) - Yea, fixed these, ur right the timing makes the rhythm less predictable so lowering spacing helps players have more breathing room.
01:47:749 - shouldnt there be something mapped here? you skipped a sound in the guitar lol. not a lot of time until the offset shift so i can understand not mapping this tho, just wanna make sure its intentional The problem here is theres really not enough time to put something there and still expect players to click the next note, the rhythm isn't predictable due to the weirt timing. When pishi timed this he also recommended not mapping this and instead putting a larger spacing gap here to counteract the gap so thats basically what I did.
02:50:117 (2) - too clean, its part of the "ugly" combo and should be ugly made it ugly
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - I recommend starting this sequence on the top left, (so like 02:55:682 (1,2) - would be the first in the pattern), biggets reason is that the momentum the player has from 02:53:686 (1) - this super fast movement is better transitioned into the jump pattern if the first jumps are parallel to the slider. hope this makes sense lol, as it is now the momentum is kinda lost in the sharp switch in the angle. I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.

I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.

Hobbes2 wrote:

I think the current angle is quite reasonable... The player ihas a really fast downward movement built up from the repeat slider so the jump downward should be natural.
Also it sets up a nice angle for the final 3 jumps. Ehh... I can get some testplays if you think its a problem.

eh. the repeat slider kinda 'trains' the player with the really fast up down motion so it makes more sense for the first jump to also be up down. sure the movement to the first pair of 1-2 follows this motion, but then the turn after kinda wastes the momentum if that makes any sense.

Hobbes2 wrote:

one last thing, I'd appreciate a higher OD (even 9.7, if not 10). not really sure why yours is so low, read the thread and didnt really see a good explanation.

EDIT - and i gotta check your changes lol
EDIT2 - also, could you reply to yuii in full? makes it easier for transparency and stuff

Naotoshi wrote:

http://itsalmo.st/#alientime

Do not nominate a beatmap if you cannot reasonably judge it. Being able to reasonably play a beatmap is a core part of being able to judge a beatmap’s quality. If you are multiple tiers below the playing level of the map we may call your ability to judge it into question.

Hobbes2 wrote:

If anyone has a concern regarding my ability to judge the map, I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.

Naotoshi wrote:

he's a modder with lots of experience, more kudosu than you, an experienced mapper, and aside from all of that the map has already 50 odd pages of discussion. if you want to objectively quantify and analyze his modding ability, be my guest. after all, you nominated a similar high star map, right? you should know what it takes.

Hobbes2 wrote:

It's worth pointing out that I'm actually quite capable of playing a lot of this map.

SPOILER

hi-mei wrote:

why are u still pushing it, i dont get

community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit

[Taiga] wrote:

hi-mei wrote:

why are u still pushing it, i dont get

community is against it, youre just making ur life worse by iconing such shit

Community voice doesn't matter here.
If map is not breaking ranking criteria and BN/QAT decide it is rankable in term of aesthetics - it can be ranked.

fufu- wrote:

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) no pLEASE bring back the old jumps these pentagons are so hard to play and snap to

GaterRaider wrote:

monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?

GaterRaider wrote:

monstrata ranked 42,9% of Hobbe2's maps. Gotta return some favors now that you're a BN, huh?

Genjuro wrote:

nice map, i like the concept used where the map is ugly to go with the ugly song, gl with rank

Akitoshi wrote:

What's This?

Xexxar wrote:

This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.

Reconsider your actions.

Ekoro wrote:

this should be nuked

Hobbes2 wrote:

This isn't actually true, lol. Community voice matters a lot. Monstrata did respond to everyone that had a specific concern, which is why I was confident in pushing this forward.

EDIT - Just want to point out that I don't want to involve myself in drama (I didn't bubble this map to start a fight, I did it because I think it deserves to be ranked) so I'm not going to respond to any posts that aren't relevant to the map itself from now.

Ekoro wrote:

this should be nuked

Kynan wrote:

Xexxar wrote:

This isnt how this rule works. You're hopelessly below this maps difficulty and a brand new beatmap nominator. If you think you're exempt from this rule simply because the difficulty is "only jumps and high bpm" you're incorrect.

Reconsider your actions.

Well fuck, this coming from a guy who speed ranks trash jump maps for the sole reason of being the highest SR TV size map out there (and you probably can't even clear your map as well), is painful to read.

MagicDragon wrote:

Clearly the only solution is to revoke every single BN's rights and start from scratch by giving BN permissions to all the salty 5 and 6 digit players who madpost about maps that give high PP while not being able to make a decent map themselves.

Hobbes2 wrote:

I'd respond with the fact that this map in itself isn't actually that complex. The difficulty itself comes from the high bpm + jumps more than anything. The play-ability concerns I had were addressed in my mod.

Gokateigo wrote:

I love you, finnally a good bn who does his job

Gokateigo wrote:

You're 96k, you have 4 pending tv size maps from 11 days ago, your opinion is shit, you have no experience in mapping

+we don't flame the map because of pp (I don't even know how much pp is this shit), it's just an unplayable shitmap with ugly patterns because "lol metal is disgusting anime is better so I'll shitmap this and push it to ranked because a lot of BNs suck my dick"