1. 00:51:198 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - sidenote the whistles here overlap each other so annoyingly when they're put on such high bpm 1/4, it actually takes away from the gameplay experience imo so what i would suggest is using a shorter whistle so that they don't overlap as noticeably

hi-mei wrote:

monstrata

right now

Mir wrote:

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar This is just visuals. The "slight spacing change" isn't being used to create emphasis. You won't feel any emphatic difference when hitting those specific notes because of their spacing.

00:45:876 (1,2,3) - I think this rhythm would fit the drums and piano better, what you have right now kinda.. doesn't really fit imo http://i.imgur.com/KpXKhZk.png What? No... this fits perfectly

00:44:812 (1,2,3,4) - all ignoring the 1/4, you could use 1/4 sliders here? I don't want to use 1/4's. 1/2 works better in building up the song.

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking. I want this to be a stream map. THey are definitely supported in the song and the rhythm being used is in no way confusing.

1. 00:51:198 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - sidenote the whistles here overlap each other so annoyingly when they're put on such high bpm 1/4, it actually takes away from the gameplay experience imo so what i would suggest is using a shorter whistle so that they don't overlap as noticeably

Uh.. I jsut disagree. THey're maybe annoying to you, but they fit very well for me.

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg What? They're following the drum. And it really helps to separate this rhythm from the rest of the streams.

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream It doesn't lower in intensity. Listen to the 1/4's they are still there. You are basing the "lack of intensity" on the fact that the high piano note is held which is subjective at best.

00:56:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - this ncing seems to be inconsistent with 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - but again my point about rhythm here and other places My bad. But i'm not dq'ing unless theres a valid reason. lets see...

01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds Theyre definitely kicksliders... just listen to the kick rhythm.

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow.

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well That's too bad.

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams.

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes It's the same as all the others. I think your idea of intensity just differs from mine. I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc...

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo ^

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais That's the idea. it's freedom dive esque in that aspect and i really like it. i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting.

Minor stuff:

- 00:09:890 (3) - 00:10:821 (2) - missing whistle? No theyre there on purpose. spamming all whistles sounds bad. 3 is consistent with 00:10:821 (2) - anyways.
- 00:20:599 (5,7) - removing the hitsounds here would actually sound better imo since the song has no noticeable drum here Uh no... disagree.
- 00:38:027 (2) - 1/6 here you could have taken advantage of Yea i don' want to xP.

Overall the map in its current state I think does not represent the song in the best way it can and as it stands actually chooses to ignore it in both kiais and through lack of differentiation between instruments in various places. The streams have very little emphasis spacing-wise and the infrequent direction changes, while some are present and work, don't really do much to help the emphasis. The rhythm in the kiai ignores the song pretty obviously especially when the same rhythm as 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - was mapped like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - in a non-kiai section.

Monstrata wrote:

Mir wrote:

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar This is just visuals. The "slight spacing change" isn't being used to create emphasis. You won't feel any emphatic difference when hitting those specific notes because of their spacing. um.. you do feel the difference, this is quite noticeable and does have an impact on gameplay. even if you say it's only aesthetics it's inconsistent with 00:39:491 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - aesthetically too, and since this map's core concept is apparently consistency, that breaks the concept.

00:45:876 (1,2,3) - I think this rhythm would fit the drums and piano better, what you have right now kinda.. doesn't really fit imo http://i.imgur.com/KpXKhZk.png What? No... this fits perfectly

00:44:812 (1,2,3,4) - all ignoring the 1/4, you could use 1/4 sliders here? I don't want to use 1/4's. 1/2 works better in building up the song.

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking. I want this to be a stream map. THey are definitely supported in the song and the rhythm being used is in no way confusing. That's exactly the problem, the song is using complex rhythm but the map isn't representing it. They're supported in the song by background noises sure, but if you map only the background noises you end up ignoring what makes the song.. the song, which is the problem I have with your rhythm. You can have it be a stream map in all the other places, but this doesn't rhythm doesn't really fit here. This rhythm is also separating the stanzas - they're different phrases. This is also - if I didn't misread - a concept of your map, and it's breaking it

1. 00:51:198 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - sidenote the whistles here overlap each other so annoyingly when they're put on such high bpm 1/4, it actually takes away from the gameplay experience imo so what i would suggest is using a shorter whistle so that they don't overlap as noticeably

Uh.. I jsut disagree. THey're maybe annoying to you, but they fit very well for me.

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg What? They're following the drum. And it really helps to separate this rhythm from the rest of the streams. If it's separating the rhythm you want, you may as well make 00:53:061 (1,2,1,2) - circles instead of 1/4 sliders because what you're doing with these is blending different rhythm 00:53:593 (1,2,1,2) - with the same objects, which is exactly what you're telling me you want to avoid. you even said earlier that "1/2 works better in building up the song."

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream It doesn't lower in intensity. Listen to the 1/4's they are still there. You are basing the "lack of intensity" on the fact that the high piano note is held which is subjective at best. I'm having a hard time understanding how a held piano warrants a stream then, because blending the lower and upper layer of the music for this change is in essence ignoring the separation of these stanzas, which is also, as you said, a concept of your map

00:56:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - this ncing seems to be inconsistent with 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - but again my point about rhythm here and other places My bad. But i'm not dq'ing unless theres a valid reason. lets see...

01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds Theyre definitely kicksliders... just listen to the kick rhythm. okay, 01:02:240 (4,5,6) - aren't 1/4 drums in the song after all, your hitsound mislead me. this entire section is 1/2 drums, in which case why not make them all circles instead since, again, you said above "1/2 works better in building up the song."

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow. because the way you have it right now isn't expressing them to the fullest potential, that's why it would be hard to change

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well That's too bad. Uhm, excuse me? Can you at least give me a reason as to why you don't want to do this, instead of saying "That's too bad." and letting it drop?

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams. you have stream everywhere else it's just 3 notes that you'd be sacrificing, and it would improve the emphasis altogether. it's still a stream map

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes It's the same as all the others. I think your idea of intensity just differs from mine. I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc... okay that's a good aim and I respect that but you're sacrificing emphasizing the song itself for making the map challenging. you're misrepresenting the song because you want to just have one massive stream that players have to click that doesn't follow the intensity of the music. emphasizing this would give a challenge, and it would test the players endurance to adapt to this change as well

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo ^ ^

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais That's the idea. it's freedom dive esque in that aspect and i really like it. i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting. but what you're doing is making predictable and uninteresting rhythm that's ignoring the song - the song itself is unpredictable, just look at the places i pointed out where you ignore that unpredictable nature to put in your predictable streams. you're doing the exact thing you want to avoid doing, just without the emphasis part. your rhythm is predictable because it's all 1/4 deathstreams, and it's uninteresting because it's all 1/4 deathstreams.

Minor stuff:

- 00:09:890 (3) - 00:10:821 (2) - missing whistle? No theyre there on purpose. spamming all whistles sounds bad. 3 is consistent with 00:10:821 (2) - anyways.
- 00:20:599 (5,7) - removing the hitsounds here would actually sound better imo since the song has no noticeable drum here Uh no... disagree.
- 00:38:027 (2) - 1/6 here you could have taken advantage of Yea i don' want to xP.

Overall the map in its current state I think does not represent the song in the best way it can and as it stands actually chooses to ignore it in both kiais and through lack of differentiation between instruments in various places. The streams have very little emphasis spacing-wise and the infrequent direction changes, while some are present and work, don't really do much to help the emphasis. The rhythm in the kiai ignores the song pretty obviously especially when the same rhythm as 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - was mapped like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - in a non-kiai section.

[]

Sorry... I think we just have differing views on how intensity should function, and you should really consider the idea behind this map more. Look at Nakagawa kanon's freedom dive. you'll see a lot of aesthetics are borrowed there. as well, the map is a test of consistency and stamina. it's not trying to delegate different spacings to match the exact pitch and intensity of every section of music. It's looking more broadly at whole stanxas, and less narrowly at specific patterns and rhythms.

Mir wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar This is just visuals. The "slight spacing change" isn't being used to create emphasis. You won't feel any emphatic difference when hitting those specific notes because of their spacing. um.. you do feel the difference, this is quite noticeable and does have an impact on gameplay. even if you say it's only aesthetics it's inconsistent with 00:39:491 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - aesthetically too, and since this map's core concept is apparently consistency, that breaks the concept. You feel the difference not because of the spacing but because of the angle shift. The map uses a very consistent rhythm. I use aesthetic changes such as turns and dips in streams to create variety and difficulty in tracking the stream movement.

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking. I want this to be a stream map. THey are definitely supported in the song and the rhythm being used is in no way confusing. That's exactly the problem, the song is using complex rhythm but the map isn't representing it. They're supported in the song by background noises sure, but if you map only the background noises you end up ignoring what makes the song.. the song, which is the problem I have with your rhythm. You can have it be a stream map in all the other places, but this doesn't rhythm doesn't really fit here. This rhythm is also separating the stanzas - they're different phrases. This is also - if I didn't misread - a concept of your map, and it's breaking it Just because i'm not following the layer you think is the dominant layer doesn't mean I'm not following the song... Also looking at the rhythms you "want" me to map instead,
there would be very few places where streams would actually fit because the layer you believe is the strongest does not allow for stream mapping, only triplet spam, and that's not something I consider reflective of the song at all.

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg What? They're following the drum. And it really helps to separate this rhythm from the rest of the streams. If it's separating the rhythm you want, you may as well make 00:53:061 (1,2,1,2) - circles instead of 1/4 sliders because what you're doing with these is blending different rhythm 00:53:593 (1,2,1,2) - with the same objects, which is exactly what you're telling me you want to avoid. you even said earlier that "1/2 works better in building up the song." Those examples aren't even related... you're taking my words out of context now. These are fine as kicksliders. They function as 1/2 clicking breaks in between streams and map the drum rhythm here.1-2-3--- 1-2-3--- 1-2-stream...

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream It doesn't lower in intensity. Listen to the 1/4's they are still there. You are basing the "lack of intensity" on the fact that the high piano note is held which is subjective at best. I'm having a hard time understanding how a held piano warrants a stream then, because blending the lower and upper layer of the music for this change is in essence ignoring the separation of these stanzas, which is also, as you said, a concept of your map Because the piano layer you're following isn't the layer I consider dominant. It's exactly why I don't use triplet spam rhythms too because those rhythms would reflect the piano sound you envision no? Hopefully you see my perspective now. Also just because a sound is held doesn't mean you just map it. You can default to following other sounds, especially if those other sounds are what I consider more dominant to begin with. Slapping a 2/1 slider here is a mistake, i'm sure you can agree.


01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds Theyre definitely kicksliders... just listen to the kick rhythm. okay, 01:02:240 (4,5,6) - aren't 1/4 drums in the song after all, your hitsound mislead me. this entire section is 1/2 drums, in which case why not make them all circles instead since, again, you said above "1/2 works better in building up the song." Why not make all 1/2 circles? What? Why not make them all kicksliders? It's the same argument... Think of their function rhythmically. It's the 1/2 clicks. The kicksliders are there to maintain intensity because using 1/2 circles feels far too light for this bpm and rhythm density.

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow. because the way you have it right now isn't expressing them to the fullest potential, that's why it would be hard to change I'm fine with it. I think ht expresses them adequately. Feel free to give me ideas if you think there is a better way to map them that doesn't interfere with my consistent spacing structure and flow. Otherwise I am keeping because all of these 1/3 streams are necessary in this sort of aesthetic because they are trying to constrict mapper's movement through tighter and tighter angles. Breaking structure here for the sake of mapping some drums "more properly" ends up detracting from the player experience here. I don't think theres a need to express these sounds differently because fundamentally,
that would suggest that I am trying to emphasize those sounds, or highlight them, and that's not my intention.

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well That's too bad. Uhm, excuse me? Can you at least give me a reason as to why you don't want to do this, instead of saying "That's too bad." and letting it drop? It's just a consistent stream until near the end because only that section is where the song drops slightly in intensity.

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams. you have stream everywhere else it's just 3 notes that you'd be sacrificing, and it would improve the emphasis altogether. it's still a stream map Its unnecessary for the same reasons I mentioned earlier with regard to those 1/3 streams. It causes a lot more damage just to follow notes that I don't think are important and worth highlighting anyways. As well, highlighting them is counterintuitive to my rhythm choice to begin with...

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes It's the same as all the others. I think your idea of intensity just differs from mine. I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc... okay that's a good aim and I respect that but you're sacrificing emphasizing the song itself for making the map challenging. you're misrepresenting the song because you want to just have one massive stream that players have to click that doesn't follow the intensity of the music. emphasizing this would give a challenge, and it would test the players endurance to adapt to this change as well I think i'm interpretting it just fine. There is no correct way to interpret the song. I disagree strongly with how you think it should be interpreted. You are welcome to map your own version if you believe my interpretation won't express the song the best. But my interpretation has strong ideas and mapping techniques behind it too. Please don't discredit my map just because you disagree with it.

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo ^ ^ ^

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais That's the idea. it's freedom dive esque in that aspect and i really like it. i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting. but what you're doing is making predictable and uninteresting rhythm that's ignoring the song - the song itself is unpredictable, just look at the places i pointed out where you ignore that unpredictable nature to put in your predictable streams. you're doing the exact thing you want to avoid doing, just without the emphasis part. your rhythm is predictable because it's all 1/4 deathstreams, and it's uninteresting because it's all 1/4 deathstreams. Similar to what I already stated earlier.


[]

Sorry... I think we just have differing views on how intensity should function, and you should really consider the idea behind this map more. Look at Nakagawa kanon's freedom dive. you'll see a lot of aesthetics are borrowed there. as well, the map is a test of consistency and stamina. it's not trying to delegate different spacings to match the exact pitch and intensity of every section of music. It's looking more broadly at whole stanxas, and less narrowly at specific patterns and rhythms.

The stuff I didn't reply to I'm fine with the "explanations" for.

Monstrata, come on.

If you want to compare different maps (which is never a good idea, I think we both know using other maps for justifying things on a different map isn't very solid reasoning) Nakagawa Kanon mapped the melody of Freedom Dive, but you ignore this song's melody. How could you compare that? In Freedom Dive: 01:47:974 - look at this kiai, it follows the melody in the song to a T, it does it consistently and in a challenging way that emphasizes everything in a reasonable way. Your map really isn't doing that very much, and I think you know that.

I'm sorry Monstrata, but I'm inclined to disagree with a lot of what you replied to me with, and the way you replied came across quite condescending. I would appreciate if we could treat each other with a bit of respect here, we're both trying to make this the best map it can be, so let's try to come to a compromise where that's possible.

Mun wrote:

Making a map to be "like Freedom Dive" is... interesting. Freedom Dive was ranked in mid-2012, and in the 5 years since its ranking (a week ago today), it has garnered the attention of tens of thousands of players: being one of the first maps ever to hold a 700pp play, and the first map ever to have an 800pp score.

However, though this map has stayed one of osu!'s iconic maps throughout the ages (I got into this game after watching cooker's 700pp play on it), its age began to show years ago. Modelling a map after an extremely flawed map that could never make it through The Great Filter the ranking process today won't turn out well, no matter how you try to spin it. There's not much theming going on here at all - it's just making a generic stream map represent a song really well in the sense that both are intolerable.

hi-mei wrote:

theres nothing super bad with this map, cmon guys
he mapped backgrounds cuz he wanted to, yes it doesnt really work but well, its his right to do w/e he wants if its inside the borders of rc

i dont see any significant problems here except hitsounding, but who cares, everyone uses their own skins with hitsounds

its just another mediocre map, let it go

Natsu wrote:

But Monstratita is right a mapper is free to follow any track that they want, so you need to take that in mind before modding something

You feel the difference not because of the spacing but because of the angle shift. The map uses a very consistent rhythm. I use aesthetic changes such as turns and dips in streams to create variety and difficulty in tracking the stream movement.

Just because i'm not following the layer you think is the dominant layer doesn't mean I'm not following the song... Also looking at the rhythms you "want" me to map instead,
there would be very few places where streams would actually fit because the layer you believe is the strongest does not allow for stream mapping, only triplet spam, and that's not something I consider reflective of the song at all.

Those examples aren't even related... you're taking my words out of context now. These are fine as kicksliders. They function as 1/2 clicking breaks in between streams and map the drum rhythm here.1-2-3--- 1-2-3--- 1-2-stream...

Because the piano layer you're following isn't the layer I consider dominant. It's exactly why I don't use triplet spam rhythms too because those rhythms would reflect the piano sound you envision no? Hopefully you see my perspective now. Also just because a sound is held doesn't mean you just map it. You can default to following other sounds, especially if those other sounds are what I consider more dominant to begin with. Slapping a 2/1 slider here is a mistake, i'm sure you can agree.

I'm fine with it. I think ht expresses them adequately. Feel free to give me ideas if you think there is a better way to map them that doesn't interfere with my consistent spacing structure and flow. Otherwise I am keeping because all of these 1/3 streams are necessary in this sort of aesthetic because they are trying to constrict mapper's movement through tighter and tighter angles. Breaking structure here for the sake of mapping some drums "more properly" ends up detracting from the player experience here. I don't think theres a need to express these sounds differently because fundamentally, that would suggest that I am trying to emphasize those sounds, or highlight them, and that's not my intention.

It's just a consistent stream until near the end because only that section is where the song drops slightly in intensity.

Its unnecessary for the same reasons I mentioned earlier with regard to those 1/3 streams. It causes a lot more damage just to follow notes that I don't think are important and worth highlighting anyways. As well, highlighting them is counterintuitive to my rhythm choice to begin with...

I think i'm interpretting it just fine. There is no correct way to interpret the song. I disagree strongly with how you think it should be interpreted. You are welcome to map your own version if you believe my interpretation won't express the song the best. But my interpretation has strong ideas and mapping techniques behind it too. Please don't discredit my map just because you disagree with it.

1. 00:46:941 - until 00:58:315 - respecting the stronger song of the drums, making 1/4 slider jumps when necessary, like 00:50:666 (1,2,3,4) - and still ignoring piano songs like 00:53:526 - 00:54:058 - for gives more emphasis in the drums,
2. 00:58:382 - until the end of first kiai - certainly not following the drums, with clearly ignored in 01:00:644 - until 01:01:708 - with musically speaking are the same beat than 00:53:061 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - for example.

Tarrasky wrote:

last diff, just a little question

1. 00:46:941 - until 00:58:315 - respecting the stronger song of the drums, making 1/4 slider jumps when necessary, like 00:50:666 (1,2,3,4) - and still ignoring piano songs like 00:53:526 - 00:54:058 - for gives more emphasis in the drums,
2. 00:58:382 - until the end of first kiai - certainly not following the drums, with clearly ignored in 01:00:644 - until 01:01:708 - with musically speaking are the same beat than 00:53:061 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - for example.

Can you explain, in your perspective, why this inconsistency? Because, in my opinion, the map must be at least consistent with moments that are musically the same, there's no why you add these notes for example 00:58:382 (1,2) - and being completely unstable with 00:49:868 (5,6,7,8) - that is the same song (you have added a normal sample clap in here 00:58:515 (2) - just because is a sliderjump? and in 00:50:000 (7) - that is the same song there aren't these hitsounds).

Adiopulse wrote:

I'm not here to ruin the game, I'm here to ruin your game

me while modding this

Atsuro's Extra

00:07:229 note should be here
00:07:296 (9,10) this should just be on slider

00:07:562 suggest using this for better accent of the notes https://puu.sh/wA1hz/16c46a7095.png

00:11:885 in this pause section you could really benefit from mapping those low base/synth sounds with sliders and give you a really good entry into 00:20:333

00:33:637 this is part is wrong, here's how it should look like https://puu.sh/wA1NB/0669599a2b.png the 8 combo note was on a `1/4 snap and should be on a 1/6 at 00:33:992

00:34:369 add a note here

00:38:027 should be a small 3 1/6 stream instead of the 2 1/4 you have here to better reflect the piano

00:43:149 add a note here

00:52:794 (3) this doesn't really make sense to me really, the kick back doesn't even align with the big kick at 00:53:061

01:00:245 something HAS to accent this kick, you do it for the rest in this combo

01:01:309 (3) another awk slider like last time

01:15:411 (10) no reason for this to kick back

4 Dickerinosion

00:03:304 should be like this to match the rhythm https://puu.sh/wA46B/c62395b45c.png What? nope, its supposed to be a triplet to match the other triplets.

to stay consistent with your changing direction of the stream 00:24:058 (1) this should be accented more like the ones prior clockwise to counterclockwise flow shift.
00:25:588 (8) ^ ^

I find that you are very inconsistent with the gimmick

Net0 wrote:

The only thing I'd request to change in this mapset is the last diff name. Why four dimensions top diff name if your map is not a tribute or similar to the original Freedom Dive map? (not saying Blue Zenith is similar either, but I wasn't really involved with mapping when that got ranked). If it's just because it's a xi song I'm ok with that as long as the next mappers who want to rank xi stuff will also be capable of using that diff name.

HighTec wrote:

aoiuzhfnojklsnhfsek

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

mfw everyone can write an essay except me

unko wrote:

every diff in this sucks