• 
  00:15:013 (13,14,15) - d d k?
  
  00:38:357 (10) - change to k?
  
  00:39:468 (11) - change to d?
  
  00:50:585 (2) - change to d?
  
  00:56:977 (11) - ^
  
  00:58:366 (12) - change to k?

• 
  00:20:571 (1) - change to d
  
  00:30:853 (14) - delete...?
  
  00:48:639 (4) - ^
  
  00:48:917 (5) - change to d
  
  00:57:810 (3) - ^

• 
  00:04:452 (13) - move to 00:04:313 - ?
  
  00:08:898 (13) - change to d and move to 00:08:760 - ?
  
  00:39:468 (11) - change to D ?
  
  00:48:917 (9) - ^ same as 00:47:250 (1) -
  
  01:01:423 (10,11) - ctrl+G ?

• 
  00:10:462 (5,6,7,8,9) - i think k k d kd is better
  
  00:21:856 (6,7) - ctrl+G ?

• 
  00:26:303 (7,8,9,10) - i think this pattern is good
  

Sanawieck wrote:

hi! M4M from your quere

[Kantan]

• 
  00:15:013 (13,14,15) - d d k? > no, vocal pitch goes down, k k d suits more.
  
  00:38:357 (10) - change to k? > consistent on-beat D, no change.
  
  00:39:468 (11) - change to d? > vocal high-pitch, k is preferred.
  
  00:50:585 (2) - change to d? > k for drum kick, no change
  
  00:56:977 (11) - ^ > variation, D D seems too boring.
  
  00:58:366 (12) - change to k? > consistent on-beat D again.

[Futsuu]

• 
  00:20:571 (1) - change to d > high-pitch accompaniment behind the strong base drum --> K
  
  00:30:853 (14) - delete...? > keep it to maintain a better note spread with Muzukashii
  
  00:48:639 (4) - ^ > nope, but this time is Kantan with Futsuu.
  
  00:48:917 (5) - change to d > drum kick blah blah bah
  
  00:57:810 (3) - ^ > ~_~

[Muzukashii]

• 
  00:04:452 (13) - move to 00:04:313 - ? > no, it's on the drum kick concretely.
  
  00:08:898 (13) - change to d and move to 00:08:760 - ? > same situation as stated above.
  
  00:39:468 (11) - change to D ? > as this section only contains the Finishers (different from Oni/ Inner Oni, they have other accompaniments surrounding these D/K there), so I would like to use K here to show the overall note flow.
  
  00:48:917 (9) - ^ same as 00:47:250 (1) - > nope, strong preparation for emphasizing upcoming D at 00:49:473 -
  
  01:01:423 (10,11) - ctrl+G ? > nope, it does not sound good to me.

[Oni]

• 
  00:10:462 (5,6,7,8,9) - i think k k d kd is better > 00:11:018 - high pitch melody --> kat, no change.
  
  00:21:856 (6,7) - ctrl+G ? > similar case in Muzukashii's suggestion, rejected here as well.

[Alien Inner Oni]

• 
  00:26:303 (7,8,9,10) - i think this pattern is good
  > Higher density for Vocal+Instrument, lower density for Instrument Only, I am following this mapping concept very strictly.

Good Luck !!! >w<

1. I thought "Alien Inner Oni" was a GD... lol... can you name it just "Alien Oni" ?

1. 00:32:799 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - I don't recommend you make these 1/1 triplets identical. They are very different vocals in the music, so I recommend you map them different;y to avoid repetition here. Consider kkd ddD, dkd ddD, or dkd kkD (this one is best imo), and the lyrics will be mapped more accurately and interestingly.
2. 00:41:692 (13) - Consider switching this to a k because it's a very sharp and intense vocal.
3. 01:26:064 (8) - I don't see what justifies the sudden use of 1/6 here. You should be consistent with the other occurrence this pattern is seen 01:26:064 (8) - here, and instead map this on the following white tick, since it's not a finisher or a cymbal or anything like that.

1. 00:18:070 (5) - imo this seems to be a random time to start implementing 1/2 patterns. If you're going to use one here, then I recommend adding one
2. 00:13:623 - here so that the futsuu player will be more likely to expect it the second time the pattern occurs, especially to prepare the futsuu player to the many more 1/2 that are about to come.
3. 00:30:853 - Consider removing this 1/2 pattern, as all of your previous 1/2 patterns have been used to map the vocals in the song, this one is not. Removing it would make the first section more tidy, as all of the 1/2 patterns will be because of the lyrics.
4. 01:10:038 (2) - Since you made tons of 1/6 notes accurately snapped in this difficulty, it doesn't make much sense to map this on the white tick just for the drum, when that would be the only time you've done this in the kiai. (You do this a lot in your Muzu, but that makes sense because the player will be expecting it since you do it a lot.)
   
   ~

   

1. 00:15:291 (13) - Move this to 00:15:198 - here because this beat is more of the vocal beat than the other. You're also not missing any important drums there.
2. 00:21:404 (3) - Same as above, move this 1/6 backwards for the same reason.
3. 00:23:350 (10,11) - Ctrl+g this, it's more accurate to the vocals and it gets the k on the snare.
4. 00:28:526 (13,14) - I recommend you ctrl+g this too, Since you're willing to make an exception to the k = snare rule back here - >00:17:132 (4,5,6,7) -, then you should be able to do it again here if it makes the vocals much more accurate.
5. 00:57:532 (4) - Consider switching to d because it's a weak note.

1. 00:15:846 (18) - Consider switching to d because the vocal pitch is falling, plus it's not interrupting the drums.
2. 00:19:633 (16) - Consider switching to k, similar reasoning as above.
3. 00:25:851 (5,6) - consider ctrl+g here because the pitch is rising and it seems more consistent with 00:17:132 (6,7,8,9,10) - this

1. 00:11:956 - consider adding something here since it's your highest difficulty
2. 00:25:851 (5,6) - same as oni
3. 01:09:760 (2,3) - ^ ctrl+g for the vocal pitch

Jonawaga wrote:

hello M4M here~
[General]

1. I thought "Alien Inner Oni" was a GD... lol... can you name it just "Alien Oni" ?
   
   > Keep "Inner" to state a clear difficulty naming spread.

[Kantan]

1. 00:32:799 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - I don't recommend you make these 1/1 triplets identical. They are very different vocals in the music, so I recommend you map them different;y to avoid repetition here. Consider kkd ddD, dkd ddD, or dkd kkD (this one is best imo), and the lyrics will be mapped more accurately and interestingly.
   
   > I have been using 1/1 triplets from 00:11:678 - , and it is expected that I continue to use them at 00:31:687 - actually. Yes they have different vocals, but if i follow them perfectly, then that'd not be no longer a kantan. In order to avoid repetition and slightly fitting to my previous mapping style, 00:33:354 - is changed to d now for the sake of pitch flow.
   
2. 00:41:692 (13) - Consider switching this to a k because it's a very sharp and intense vocal.
   
   > Nice catch, changed.
   
3. 01:26:064 (8) - I don't see what justifies the sudden use of 1/6 here. You should be consistent with the other occurrence this pattern is seen 01:26:064 (8) - here, and instead map this on the following white tick, since it's not a finisher or a cymbal or anything like that.
   
   > It is not the first appearance for the 1/6 3/16 beatsnap note, there's one at 01:10:501 - . The intention of strictly following the music is that there are extremely strong vocals at these two timings. Players will not sense it due to a relatively lenient OD setting and spacing provided before these weird snapped notes.

[Futsuu]

1. 00:18:070 (5) - imo this seems to be a random time to start implementing 1/2 patterns. If you're going to use one here, then I recommend adding one 00:13:623 - here so that the futsuu player will be more likely to expect it the second time the pattern occurs, especially to prepare the futsuu player to the many more 1/2 that are about to come.
   
   > I agree completely, changed.
   
2. 00:30:853 - Consider removing this 1/2 pattern, as all of your previous 1/2 patterns have been used to map the vocals in the song, this one is not. Removing it would make the first section more tidy, as all of the 1/2 patterns will be because of the lyrics.
   
   > You spotted it well, but I wanna keep it to stay a better note spread across difficulty. Kept.
   
3. 01:10:038 (2) - Since you made tons of 1/6 notes accurately snapped in this difficulty, it doesn't make much sense to map this on the white tick just for the drum, when that would be the only time you've done this in the kiai. (You do this a lot in your Muzu, but that makes sense because the player will be expecting it since you do it a lot.)
   
   ~

   
   
   > That is 3/16 actually, fixed now. Well spotted.

[Muzukashii]

1. 00:15:291 (13) - Move this to 00:15:198 - here because this beat is more of the vocal beat than the other. You're also not missing any important drums there.
   
   > 00:15:291 - is more prominent than 00:15:198 - , I have to give up the latter otherwise the spacing of notes will go against RC.
   
2. 00:21:404 (3) - Same as above, move this 1/6 backwards for the same reason. > different cases, but you spotted it correctly, shifted to the new timing at 00:21:300 - .
3. 00:23:350 (10,11) - Ctrl+g this, it's more accurate to the vocals and it gets the k on the snare.
   
   > vocal pitch is well compromised in the current patterns, no change.
   
4. 00:28:526 (13,14) - I recommend you ctrl+g this too, Since you're willing to make an exception to the k = snare rule back here - >00:17:132 (4,5,6,7) -, then you should be able to do it again here if it makes the vocals much more accurate.
   
   > Here's the mapping method: vocal comes first, then instrumental part, esp.ly in the calm part of instruments (from 00:11:678 - to 00:29:464 - ). You can see that I followed the snare rule nice in Oni, but not in Muzukashii, because I used some accompaniments in Oni but not able to do so in Muzukashii. So, I decided to follow more vocals than the instruments in Muzukashii to strike a balance. No change after all.
5. 00:57:532 (4) - Consider switching to d because it's a weak note.
   
   > changed due to mirror pattern with 01:06:425 (4,5,6) - , applied in Oni as well.

[Oni]

1. 00:15:846 (18) - Consider switching to d because the vocal pitch is falling, plus it's not interrupting the drums. > wanna emphasize 00:16:124 - rather than the general vocal pitch flow by using two 1/1 kats before it.
2. 00:19:633 (16) - Consider switching to k, similar reasoning as above. > nice, changed.
3. 00:25:851 (5,6) - consider ctrl+g here because the pitch is rising and it seems more consistent with 00:17:132 (6,7,8,9,10) - this > variation purpose here lol, no change.

[Inner Oni]

1. 00:11:956 - consider adding something here since it's your highest difficulty > common gap at this timing, not going to put any notes as it serves as a break.
2. 00:25:851 (5,6) - same as oni > definitely having 3 dk patterns are really bad in terms of flow in game-play
3. 01:09:760 (2,3) - ^ ctrl+g for the vocal pitch > fixed in all difficulties if applicable

overall good map
call me back when you get more sp

1. Buff kantan a lot
2. Buff Futsuu just a bit
3. Buff Muzu quite a lot
4. Oni and Inner can let it be.

Zpmzpm wrote:

Hi, NM request from my queue.
WAW you have good ears
[General]
This is what I feel:
Kantan >>>> Futsuu >> Muzukashii >>>>> Oni >>> Inner Oni
- 2 >'s is standard spread

1. Buff kantan a lot
2. Buff Futsuu just a bit
3. Buff Muzu quite a lot
4. Oni and Inner can let it be.

I think kantan can use some basic 1/2's or 3/4s, Futsuu can use some 3/8s and Muzu can use a little bit of 3/16 as well.

> I was thinking about the spread when started mapping it. I consider Kantan as a very basic Beginner which consists of 1/1 only if possible. Futsuu is the real Kantan actually but as we all know the SR system is kinda broken, so I adopt different mapping channels in the easier difficulties. Speaking of Kantan, it only contains the most impt elements of the music, while in Futsuu, it contains all elements actually, but still the prominent elements are taken.

> Back to the current version, I would say that the spreading itself looks not really good because of different musical elements are used in different difficulties. Considering the note spread, the current one should still be fine. I dont want to overdo the difficulties themselves obviously, so Muzukashii will not contain any 3/16 patterns.

[Kantan]
00:10:566 (8) - weird enough to be that offbeat, thats the problem of the song tbh. anyways, this along with a lot of other small places doesn't fit into the song.

> I forgot to fix it here, lol. Fixed now.
[Futsuu]
The slow SV makes everything look slow paced - which is clearly what the song is NOT showing. try to fix it with either 1.2x or 1.25x

> 1.2x SV is used now.

01:13:373 (4) - 01:11:150 (4) - why k? this clearly has lower pitch than next notes

> the vocal stay in a relatively high pitch position, that's why they are all mapped as kat.

[Alien inner]
Hi pp
I think you are overcrowding notes here, such a jumpy and fast paced feel but it even feels slower than an average 175bpm beatmap, use 1.6 or 1.7 i think is better

> That's too fast if people use HR, and I think 1.4x can show the 3/16 just in a right spacing effect during game play.
00:08:065 (20) - I think this should be 1/16 later
01:23:690 (20) - ^

> Missing the instrumental part here and there seems weird, and the vocal itself is delayed there I guess.... No change.

thats about it i guess
good mapset, like the offbeat and jumpy feel of it

Skylish wrote:

to avoid any possible DQ issues.

Surono wrote:

Skylish wrote:

to avoid any possible DQ issues.

avoid my love pls > accept your dem plz

>Inner
* 00:03:618 - 01:19:209 - kat? > no, k does not sound good for the skippy rhythm here and there
* 01:19:580 (23) - but 00:04:267 (25) - demm. move this to left as dkddk. just 1 this that inconsistent > Changed 00:04:267 (25) -to d now for consistency
* 00:11:956 - add notes cuz vocal, 00:46:972 - d k 1/2. mostly empty spot are nonvocal ye? > These are common gaps, no note should be put.

>Futsuu
* 00:19:367 (8) - and how this dem cant be detected as unsnapped? xd btw change this don? good alteration sounds between 00:18:348 (6,7,8) -

> Shifted all 1/12 patterns back to 3/16 for consistency, changed 00:19:355 - to d as well.

* 00:47:528 - add kat here, cuz far with muzu and to buff density futsuu from kantan. > good, changed

>Kantan
* 00:02:229 - add here kat, 00:02:785 - similar sounds and dem this part empty.. 00:06:675 - don > No, I want to keep them with such big gaps. First point is keeping a good-looking note spread with Futsuu, second point is keeping that part very clean for patterns building up after 00:09:455 -
* 01:17:819 - 01:22:266 - > same then

so thats why kantan rip sr cuz simple snap lo, are u sure applied this snapping style for kantan? just wonder with follow da music but a bit simpler like futsuu I guess since kantan has many longer gaps.

> RIP SR sys., don't rip me dem `L_`

Surono wrote:

slowplayback just catch 00:48:778 - thism move to 00:48:825 - 1/12. wew wtf 1/69. ohh just realized some notes are 1/12 so in the 1/16 looks unsnap lo
you forget to add (TV size) on Kantan diff.

crazy snapping orz

edit:
Inner Fixed with snap 3/16 or sht fkin snapping lol and aaa title of kantan fixed
bpm 108, is ma fav. number <3

Skylish condition btw

Zpmzpm wrote:

who popped? or meta change pop?

Sinnoh wrote:

why isn't the top diff called dragon inner oni

Sinnoh wrote:

why isn't the top diff called dragon inner oni

Nwolf wrote:

you sure this isn't 1/6 doublets?

Skylish wrote:

To be fair, this song is alike to Yumemiyo Otome, vocal has a certain delay everywhere, while the instrumental part is concrete solidly.

Skylish wrote:

Let's say: 00:01:291 (6) - this is in 3/16. If I use 1/6 beat snap: it will fall at 00:01:303 - (this is what I got at the very first stage while mapping). I feel that it's a bit late already, it's not noticeable in game play, and match our common sense of off-beat patterns. However, 3/16 is more accurate.

Maybe you think that this 12 ms difference are not so noticeable, so just using 1/6 is fine and suits players' expectation. Here's another issue: the overall rhythm feeling in these so called 1/6 doublets will be a bit rushy. (and this was how I figured that 1/6 might not be correct after the first trial). I don't know how to explain that rushy feeling, but there it is in the case of 1/6 instead of 3/16.

mangomizer wrote:

Tbh there's nothing much to worry about. Majority of snappings are 3/16th, better to stay consistent.

mangomizer wrote:

Magno's words

MINOR CONCERN: Timing case.

I believe the some of 3/16ths should be 1/6ths instead. I'm using "transition" to justify the snappings:

You can test this by listening at 25% speed - if you press play, and you hear a CLEAR pitch or sound transition, that means the timing point is early, because the note takes place BEFORE the transition. If you don't hear a note transition, it is either late (requires further testing), or exactly on the boundary. I believe the majority of the snappings are 1/6th actually as many of your snappings are (slightly) early, though there are boundary cases. The following timing points are just examples littered throughout the map.

00:03:792 - listen for the kick after
00:06:015 - ^
01:18:549 (15) - pitch transtion

Tbh there's nothing much to worry about. Majority of snappings are 3/16th, better to stay consistent.

Maybe I am overlooking into things, but one thing I can say for certain is that you need to be as consistent as possible when you are following lyrics or music, or at least, not as varying. There are some places where you map to voice transitions, other times when you map to bass and kicks.

k3v227 wrote:

k3v's words

(Preface: I have played the original map and a 1/6 version of it.)

----------------------------------------------------------------

tl;dr: all 3/16 -> 1/6 snapping


How was the 3/16 snap derived? If you're going to say that 1/6 isn't correct then how do you know 3/16 is correct? Just because it's the next available snap? A "better feeling" snap doesn't imply it's correct at this precise level of snapping. How do you know the snap isn't +1ms or -1ms from 3/16, or more? Musically speaking you are putting yourself in a very strange position because you can't really prove what the correct snapping should be.

I think there is a far greater burden of proof to demonstrate that 3/16 is the true rhythm for this song and it hasn't come close to being met yet. In terms of music theory it is such a crazy idea that is just being accepted here as though it's not crazy. Name any other song that has 3/16 rhythms and has a swing-feel to it? I can't think of one.

Musically speaking 3/16 doesn't make mathematical sense for this song. This song has a swing-feel so it is devised into 1/3, 1/6, 1/12, etc. It would be highly unlikely to encounter a 3/16 rhythm in a swing-feel jazz song. So why would it occur here in an anime song? It seems most likely that this isn't the case.

Skylish wrote:

To be fair, this song is alike to Yumemiyo Otome, vocal has a certain delay everywhere, while the instrumental part is concrete solidly.

Yeah that map isn't snapped correctly either. Using rhythms other than 1/3, 1/6, 1/12, etc. in a swing-feel song is pretty rare and also pretty obvious when it happens. Based on that map you mislead yourself into believing that the vocals had common time rhythms, and that is probably the case for this song too.

Skylish wrote:

Let's say: 00:01:291 (6) - this is in 3/16. If I use 1/6 beat snap: it will fall at 00:01:303 - (this is what I got at the very first stage while mapping). I feel that it's a bit late already, it's not noticeable in game play, and match our common sense of off-beat patterns. However, 3/16 is more accurate.

Maybe you think that this 12 ms difference are not so noticeable, so just using 1/6 is fine and suits players' expectation. Here's another issue: the overall rhythm feeling in these so called 1/6 doublets will be a bit rushy. (and this was how I figured that 1/6 might not be correct after the first trial). I don't know how to explain that rushy feeling, but there it is in the case of 1/6 instead of 3/16.

Just because 3/16 "feels" better than 1/6 doesn't mean it actually is 3/16. Your senses are probably just wrong, plain and simple. If they were right, that would mean you are aware of an almost nonsensical rhythm in song that is ahead of its time. This seems unlikely, and you'd need to provide substantial proof. Additionally 25% playback speed isn't completely reliable for determining proper snapping this precise. 25% playback speed can't be fully conclusive for determining if 3/16 is correct here because we're talking about a very small difference in snapping and it would be too subjective.

Niko-nyan wrote:

Hello, i am passing by to check the snapping

00:00:735 - It's too early to be placed here, it should be on 1/6 snap
00:01:013 - ; 00:01:291 - ; 00:01:569 ; for example, and many more on this map ......

this might be a worse one but please try with all of the snap divisor on the editor, which one is the best snap to go.

maziari1105 wrote:

Taiko is a rhythm game, not a sequencer imo.

Surono wrote:

I belive all synth or something like instrument are 1/16 but yeah vocal is late or idk... niko just pointout 1 to me but really if theres many 1/6, niko could point out them and can be discussed more. but really its about consistency snapping in this map..