I lost PP and rank after I improved my combo + acc on a map. Peppy pls
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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E m i
Ehm after tryharding this map for a week I got only 188 pp from this play S3RL - Bass Slut (Original Mix) at Fort's light insane. It's a way too inappropriate considering it requies some 263 bpm single tapping/alternating and tricky patterns but with small spacing between them.
Just as skillful as it should be.
PP gain is based on accuracy, combo, and diff, but also on your ranking.
great job :^)
PP gain is based on accuracy, combo, and diff, but also on your ranking.
great job :^)
nonexistent accReynBolt wrote:
Ehm after tryharding this map for a week I got only 188 pp from this play S3RL - Bass Slut (Original Mix) at Fort's light insane. It's a way too inappropriate considering it requies some 263 bpm single tapping/alternating and tricky patterns but with small spacing between them.
I had a song with no full combo complete but with high acc , then I did it with full combo but with a little bit less of accuracy than before, and I lost pp and ranks ..
I'm done .. why ?
I'm done .. why ?
Combo has a linear scaling with pp but acc scales exponentially. Just look at Tillerino's pp-graphs on reddit.
What happened? whether the performance pp has been obtained may be reduced by the osu? I experienced it, pp perfomance i somehow reduced because of what?? 
Probably because you set a higher-score lower-pp score on a map you already had a score on
combo should have a scaling based on map difficulty spread of the map on a combo axis.
you can calculate what combo is required to guarantee a guy fcd a hard part in a map for sure.
calculate the easiest part he could have fcd for 10, 20, 30, 40, --- , 100% combo, make the combo pp scale based on that
this would only result in profit, unless you look at replay data for the specific points at which combo was lost.
so this would make getting 75% combo on a map with the hard part in the middle worht more than 75% combo in a map with the hard part in the end. makes sense. it was suggested earlier but i just wrote it again
you can calculate what combo is required to guarantee a guy fcd a hard part in a map for sure.
calculate the easiest part he could have fcd for 10, 20, 30, 40, --- , 100% combo, make the combo pp scale based on that
this would only result in profit, unless you look at replay data for the specific points at which combo was lost.
so this would make getting 75% combo on a map with the hard part in the middle worht more than 75% combo in a map with the hard part in the end. makes sense. it was suggested earlier but i just wrote it again
No.-Zayto wrote:
DT is over rated
OD 9.75 is difficult so no, it's not.
Judging from your level of play of DT being Suklapallit or lower, I'd say yes.-Zayto wrote:
DT is over rated
Just wonderin why do some of my scores have a star next to them?
Because your score is top 500 on that map. People can download your replay of that map just by clicking the stardGeist wrote:
Just wonderin why do some of my scores have a star next to them?
I just lost some pp, because I got a HR-Score (94.32% accuracy with FC) which replaced a DT-Score (86.62%, not FC).
The HR-play had a higher score and therefore was submitted. But the pp-rating of the HR-play was so low, that it doesn't even show up in my top ranks.
Kind of frustrating, even if the pp-rating is just a number on the screen.
I just wish, that there was a way to select a previous score and resubmit it again.
Otherwise I always have to be worried for my pp, if I play a map with a different mod.
The HR-play had a higher score and therefore was submitted. But the pp-rating of the HR-play was so low, that it doesn't even show up in my top ranks.
Kind of frustrating, even if the pp-rating is just a number on the screen.
I just wish, that there was a way to select a previous score and resubmit it again.
Otherwise I always have to be worried for my pp, if I play a map with a different mod.
The fix for this is underway.mrburns123 wrote:
I just lost some pp, because I got a HR-Score (94.32% accuracy with FC) which replaced a DT-Score (86.62%, not FC).
The HR-play had a higher score and therefore was submitted. But the pp-rating of the HR-play was so low, that it doesn't even show up in my top ranks.
Kind of frustrating, even if the pp-rating is just a number on the screen.
I just wish, that there was a way to select a previous score and resubmit it again.
Otherwise I always have to be worried for my pp, if I play a map with a different mod.
E m i
For years.uberpancake wrote:
The fix for this is underway.mrburns123 wrote:
I just lost some pp, because I got a HR-Score (94.32% accuracy with FC) which replaced a DT-Score (86.62%, not FC).
The HR-play had a higher score and therefore was submitted. But the pp-rating of the HR-play was so low, that it doesn't even show up in my top ranks.
Kind of frustrating, even if the pp-rating is just a number on the screen.
I just wish, that there was a way to select a previous score and resubmit it again.
Otherwise I always have to be worried for my pp, if I play a map with a different mod.
osu!next will never come out
@Khelly: Players are preselecting maps based on the pp they give. Good maps might not get as much recognition due to a low reward while Tillerino keeps leading players into a one-way road of pp-maps. The problem is not that pp-maps are bad, the problem is that maps that don't follow a style that favors pp will see significantly less plays in favor of pp-maps for that reason.you are overthinking this way too hard, people will always come up with new ideas to make new sorts of maps and everyone maps in his own way.
On the other hand new players will grow up with exactly that maptype in mind and guess what happens if they map something - they will replicate exactly that type of map without ever seeing something else. Over time diversity in maps will die.
While this is more of a worst-case-scenario I'm 100% sure that this happens on a smaller scale and the longer it happens the larger the effect.
there will always be pp maps because some maps are just easier to fc with high diff (in terms of pp system) then others, but nonetheless people will keep making bad ass maps in the future
Idea about changing OD and therefore pp gained.
First of all, let me explain what I think OD is and why it's needed. OD (Overall Difficulty) is a numerical value which dictates how accurately one has to press the circles and sliders. OD for sliders is more lenient, as you can press the slider beginning in the whole time window, and still receive a 300 for it, assuming you don't miss the ending and/or the slider ticks. OD is necessary so we can calculate accuracy and through it a miss can be defined (not hitting in time/hitting to early).
Now that's cleared, I'll explain how I see OD working at the moment. Currently, no matter how accurately you click the circles, if OD is 7, there really is no distinction even if you click as if OD was 9. What I mean is, with OD 7 one can press quite sloppily, and still gets the same amount of pp as one, who clicks very accurately.
What I want to change is that base OD of a map will remain, to keep calculating scores as is, but change the way pp is gained depending on how accurately you can click. Also, make OD user definable (for their convenience, so they can see when they start messing up), but OD can only be set as the what the mapper has set it, or above that. So basically, when a map gives 100 pp with OD 7 and 100% accuracy, when a user FCs the map with 100% accuracy and OD 9, they get 110 pp (random pp values). So if two players FC SS the map, but one does it with OD 7, the other with OD 9, they will get the same score, but the OD 9 player gets higher pp for it.
However, I don't want to calculate pp from user set OD, but rather the timing standard of their clicks. By timing standard I mean the absolute value of time difference between each click and time when it's supposed to be clicked added up and then divided by the amount of circles.
Basically Timing Standard = abs(real time - click time) *clicks / circles.
I used circles because currently sliders don't depend much on timing, but could be added as well.
And that Timing Standard would be used to calculate pp instead of accuracy based on OD. Minimum PP gained from FC SSing a map with mapper set OD will stay the same, just that the more accurate one clicks, the more pp they will get.
Sorry for the sloppy English, just wanted to get the idea across.
First of all, let me explain what I think OD is and why it's needed. OD (Overall Difficulty) is a numerical value which dictates how accurately one has to press the circles and sliders. OD for sliders is more lenient, as you can press the slider beginning in the whole time window, and still receive a 300 for it, assuming you don't miss the ending and/or the slider ticks. OD is necessary so we can calculate accuracy and through it a miss can be defined (not hitting in time/hitting to early).
Now that's cleared, I'll explain how I see OD working at the moment. Currently, no matter how accurately you click the circles, if OD is 7, there really is no distinction even if you click as if OD was 9. What I mean is, with OD 7 one can press quite sloppily, and still gets the same amount of pp as one, who clicks very accurately.
What I want to change is that base OD of a map will remain, to keep calculating scores as is, but change the way pp is gained depending on how accurately you can click. Also, make OD user definable (for their convenience, so they can see when they start messing up), but OD can only be set as the what the mapper has set it, or above that. So basically, when a map gives 100 pp with OD 7 and 100% accuracy, when a user FCs the map with 100% accuracy and OD 9, they get 110 pp (random pp values). So if two players FC SS the map, but one does it with OD 7, the other with OD 9, they will get the same score, but the OD 9 player gets higher pp for it.
However, I don't want to calculate pp from user set OD, but rather the timing standard of their clicks. By timing standard I mean the absolute value of time difference between each click and time when it's supposed to be clicked added up and then divided by the amount of circles.
Basically Timing Standard = abs(real time - click time) *clicks / circles.
I used circles because currently sliders don't depend much on timing, but could be added as well.
And that Timing Standard would be used to calculate pp instead of accuracy based on OD. Minimum PP gained from FC SSing a map with mapper set OD will stay the same, just that the more accurate one clicks, the more pp they will get.
Sorry for the sloppy English, just wanted to get the idea across.
I'm just a simpuru guy that likes rhythm games and doesn't take ranks and mis-rhythms toooooooo seriously... but I wish I could keep my (-) 50,000 rank going above the (+) 50,000 rank Q _ Q
Well yeah, I'm pretty much the same. All I want is to stay in country #50, anything else is just a bonus. I just thought that the high level players would find that a nice change, since it's actually there where it would matter.bunnyluvr3000 wrote:
I'm just a simpuru guy that likes rhythm games and doesn't take ranks and mis-rhythms toooooooo seriously... but I wish I could keep my (-) 50,000 rank going above the (+) 50,000 rank Q _ Q
That's a long wall of text for asking acc to be determined by unstable rate instead of accuracy %. It's been suggested/asked before, and i believe UR isn't saved anywhere (that's why you have to rewatch a replay to check it) so it can't be used right now.Hedgeturtle wrote:
Idea about changing OD and therefore pp gained.
First of all, let me explain what I think OD is and why it's needed. OD (Overall Difficulty) is a numerical value which dictates how accurately one has to press the circles and sliders. OD for sliders is more lenient, as you can press the slider beginning in the whole time window, and still receive a 300 for it, assuming you don't miss the ending and/or the slider ticks. OD is necessary so we can calculate accuracy and through it a miss can be defined (not hitting in time/hitting to early).
Now that's cleared, I'll explain how I see OD working at the moment. Currently, no matter how accurately you click the circles, if OD is 7, there really is no distinction even if you click as if OD was 9. What I mean is, with OD 7 one can press quite sloppily, and still gets the same amount of pp as one, who clicks very accurately.
What I want to change is that base OD of a map will remain, to keep calculating scores as is, but change the way pp is gained depending on how accurately you can click. Also, make OD user definable (for their convenience, so they can see when they start messing up), but OD can only be set as the what the mapper has set it, or above that. So basically, when a map gives 100 pp with OD 7 and 100% accuracy, when a user FCs the map with 100% accuracy and OD 9, they get 110 pp (random pp values). So if two players FC SS the map, but one does it with OD 7, the other with OD 9, they will get the same score, but the OD 9 player gets higher pp for it.
However, I don't want to calculate pp from user set OD, but rather the timing standard of their clicks. By timing standard I mean the absolute value of time difference between each click and time when it's supposed to be clicked added up and then divided by the amount of circles.
Basically Timing Standard = abs(real time - click time) *clicks / circles.
I used circles because currently sliders don't depend much on timing, but could be added as well.
And that Timing Standard would be used to calculate pp instead of accuracy based on OD. Minimum PP gained from FC SSing a map with mapper set OD will stay the same, just that the more accurate one clicks, the more pp they will get.
Sorry for the sloppy English, just wanted to get the idea across.
Sorry if this is not really related to Performance Points but I will submit it anyway... I was looking on https://web.archive.org at old osu! sites out of pure curiosity, I selected the earliest date I could find, which was 11th October 2008, and I obviously saw the site had changed a massive amount. Although once looking through the site in its entirety I realized there was no sort of ranking system or PP system as a matter of fact. I continued to a random date, 13th September 2008, and looked at the player ranking. I saw the usual people like Saturos, tobebuta and Cyclone e.t.c But one thing I realized straight away is there are tiny red or green arrow's and a number next to a players name, surely indicating whether they have gone down or up in ranks recently. Go too https://web.archive.org/web/20080913014 ... yerranking for the example I am looking at here.
Conclusion
I would really think it would be a good idea too reintroduce those rank down/upscale arrows and the amount of ranks they have down/up-scaled because it might not seem like it but It really does interest people like me who wants an easy way too view a players progress (without going on to https://web.archive.org and doing it manually)
Thanks ^_^ xxx
Conclusion
I would really think it would be a good idea too reintroduce those rank down/upscale arrows and the amount of ranks they have down/up-scaled because it might not seem like it but It really does interest people like me who wants an easy way too view a players progress (without going on to https://web.archive.org and doing it manually)
Thanks ^_^ xxx
Quick overral suggestions here...
Increase PP gained with Lower AR +HD.
Drastically increase AR 9,8+ PP on easier beatmaps when player gets lower accuracy (being able to FC HR at that level is impressive).
Decrease PP gained by lower BPM DT beatmaps, increase PP gained by higher BPM DT beatmaps.
Either Increase PP gained with flashlight, or decrease its score multiplier (I dislike the fact that there are a lot of #1 players with lower PP gained from that beatmap).
Drastically increase DT score multiplier, to something like x2,5 (I did a few calculations about PP gained for that), increase HR score multiplier to x1,2, increase HT multiplier to x0,45, increase EZ multiplier to x0,65, and increase NF multiplier to x0,7 to match PP gained (Except for NF).
(I'm aware of Score v2 current multipliers)
Increase PP gained with Lower AR +HD.
Drastically increase AR 9,8+ PP on easier beatmaps when player gets lower accuracy (being able to FC HR at that level is impressive).
Decrease PP gained by lower BPM DT beatmaps, increase PP gained by higher BPM DT beatmaps.
Either Increase PP gained with flashlight, or decrease its score multiplier (I dislike the fact that there are a lot of #1 players with lower PP gained from that beatmap).
Drastically increase DT score multiplier, to something like x2,5 (I did a few calculations about PP gained for that), increase HR score multiplier to x1,2, increase HT multiplier to x0,45, increase EZ multiplier to x0,65, and increase NF multiplier to x0,7 to match PP gained (Except for NF).
(I'm aware of Score v2 current multipliers)
The ppv2 system works fine, but in my opinion in some sense it doesn't cooperate with current score system very well.
The thing is: on a same map, a play with much higher pp is highly possible to be blocked by a play with lower pp because of the score if the higher pp play isn't a fc one.
For example, Totori (aka rustbell)'s score on Remote Control [Max Control] HDDT: 608pp, 1563/1774 combo, 54,566,762 score.
Meanwhile, another friend of mine has a score like this: Remote Control [Max Control] No mod: 285pp, 1774/1774 combo(fc), 61,293,280 score (MUCH higher than Totori's score, but significantly less pp).
Which means, if Totori fced that map in no mod or even in just hd somet ime earlier, his brilliant HDDT score NEVER has a chance to be uploaded and added to his pp. In other words, a 280pp performance blocks a 600+pp performance. That totally doesn't make sense to me (and I believe to many others as well).
My recommendation will be, either modify current score (or pp) system to make sure that a play with higher pp can always beat another play with lower pp, or make we players be able to alter our own plays on bp list so that the rising players don't have to worry that their possible 2mod/3mod plays that worth 500+/600+ pps will be blocked by current 100/200 pp no mod fcs.
I know that I'm not the first one who come up with this opinion, but up to now I haven't seen much progress on this (or there actually is, in that case it'll be my bad XD). Right before I send this post, some tell me that "Just get used to it, it's common." But common doesn't mean reasonable. I love this game, and since it's becoming more and more confusing to me and some of my friends, I feel that I need to bring this topic to light again. I will be extremely happy if the update is on the way
The thing is: on a same map, a play with much higher pp is highly possible to be blocked by a play with lower pp because of the score if the higher pp play isn't a fc one.
For example, Totori (aka rustbell)'s score on Remote Control [Max Control] HDDT: 608pp, 1563/1774 combo, 54,566,762 score.
Meanwhile, another friend of mine has a score like this: Remote Control [Max Control] No mod: 285pp, 1774/1774 combo(fc), 61,293,280 score (MUCH higher than Totori's score, but significantly less pp).
Which means, if Totori fced that map in no mod or even in just hd somet ime earlier, his brilliant HDDT score NEVER has a chance to be uploaded and added to his pp. In other words, a 280pp performance blocks a 600+pp performance. That totally doesn't make sense to me (and I believe to many others as well).
My recommendation will be, either modify current score (or pp) system to make sure that a play with higher pp can always beat another play with lower pp, or make we players be able to alter our own plays on bp list so that the rising players don't have to worry that their possible 2mod/3mod plays that worth 500+/600+ pps will be blocked by current 100/200 pp no mod fcs.
I know that I'm not the first one who come up with this opinion, but up to now I haven't seen much progress on this (or there actually is, in that case it'll be my bad XD). Right before I send this post, some tell me that "Just get used to it, it's common." But common doesn't mean reasonable. I love this game, and since it's becoming more and more confusing to me and some of my friends, I feel that I need to bring this topic to light again. I will be extremely happy if the update is on the way
The harder the mods , the more pp it gives. thats how i see it
Well, maybe someone already asked this, so, sorry but i will re-ask it.
Why, when i score a 98% acc in a 3,5/4,3 song, im not earning any pp? and, the "weight" i recieve is of 1% when i strike those scores in MY FIRST TRY.
Here is a ss
https://gyazo.com/ddbbe7d0d09affcd4926f1fec0bb6994
Thanks for reading, i want to know why im not weigthing normal. Cause, for example, "Tranquility "In my room" <- that one is a 3,7 stars difficulty and i weigthed it in a 100%, i dont really understand the system :l
Why, when i score a 98% acc in a 3,5/4,3 song, im not earning any pp? and, the "weight" i recieve is of 1% when i strike those scores in MY FIRST TRY.
Here is a ss
https://gyazo.com/ddbbe7d0d09affcd4926f1fec0bb6994
Thanks for reading, i want to know why im not weigthing normal. Cause, for example, "Tranquility "In my room" <- that one is a 3,7 stars difficulty and i weigthed it in a 100%, i dont really understand the system :l
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Performance_Points check "Weightage system".Lugli wrote:
... i dont really understand the system :l
I was thinking about why old map is not high pp enough, and I concluded that's because it doesn't apply changing the shape
For example
linear shape is easier than
bending shape
(Ignore the difficulty from distance between the circle, I can't find the different shape with same distance)
It also can make slider hard with adding tick
For example
linear slider is easier than
bending shape
I wonder does pp already apply this concept
For example
linear shape is easier than
bending shape
(Ignore the difficulty from distance between the circle, I can't find the different shape with same distance)
It also can make slider hard with adding tick
For example
linear slider is easier than
bending shape
I wonder does pp already apply this concept
I think that your rank placement should have some effect on your PP gained, not a lot of an effect, but maybe like 5-10% difference. that might also encourage players to play levels that are new or less popular. I also hear FL has the same PP multiplier as hidden... obviously, flashlight is much harder than hidden, i think it should be a little bit higher
E m i
destroyerwilly wrote:
I think that your rank placement should have some effect on your PP gained, not a lot of an effect, but maybe like 5-10% difference. that might also encourage players to play levels that are new or less popular. I also hear FL has the same PP multiplier as hidden... obviously, flashlight is much harder than hidden, i think it should be a little bit higher
Posted: 2 years agoMomiji wrote:
Hidden bonus = 18% aim, 2% accuracy
Flashlight bonus = 50% aim, 2% accuracy
Why do you lose what looks like to be around a thousand points for hitting 100s and 50s now? For newbies, at least, that doesn't look promising at all, to me.
Maybe make it so you can still get an S after like 1 or 2 misses? Like, every other game mode is just as forgiving :/ I have had this complaint from long time players before
Is there a minimum required acc to even get pp? I got a 96.92% S on a 2.8 star map that I've never played before and didn't gain a single point...
There is no minimum accuracy required. However, if the map is easier then your top plays, you may not receive as much or any significant amount of pp. In your case though, because of your rank, you probably didn't receive the pp because of your connection to Bancho
I've never had any issues with my connection to Bancho that I'm aware ofSandy Hoey wrote:
There is no minimum accuracy required. However, if the map is easier then your top plays, you may not receive as much or any significant amount of pp. In your case though, because of your rank, you probably didn't receive the pp because of your connection to Bancho
am I just playing maps that are considered "too easy"? It seems like 1/2 the maps I've been playing (including ones recommended from Tillerino) I just don't get pp for at all, and if I do it's like, 5 pp tops...It could also be that you aren't donig as well as you think you are. Just because you have decent acc and an S doesn't mean that you didn't break your combo somewhere and didn't get the FC.
It makes me sad to see people having a full list of top plays barely reaching over 1 minute in length. In most online games I know, when there is one thing that trumps every other form of play, they will nerf said method in a way. I would love to see something similar happen to osu!.
At the moment a lot of mappers know how to optimize their maps for maximum pp gains. This has both positive and negative effects. I personally believe we should take a closer look and define what a healthy meta should be. Before the optimisation of mapping, doubletime used to be somewhat healthy iirc. I noticed that nowadays, you will get looked down upon when you only have dubbeltime in your top plays.
Personally, my logic tells me that this meta can't be right. Hopefully we won't have to spam 1 minute maps in order to climb the rankings. (Sure, git gut may be a response for this. But climbing becomes really hard and demotivating if everybody around you only plays 1 minute maps for easy 500 pp plays). I'm not sure if I'm the only one that feels this way though.
At the moment a lot of mappers know how to optimize their maps for maximum pp gains. This has both positive and negative effects. I personally believe we should take a closer look and define what a healthy meta should be. Before the optimisation of mapping, doubletime used to be somewhat healthy iirc. I noticed that nowadays, you will get looked down upon when you only have dubbeltime in your top plays.
Personally, my logic tells me that this meta can't be right. Hopefully we won't have to spam 1 minute maps in order to climb the rankings. (Sure, git gut may be a response for this. But climbing becomes really hard and demotivating if everybody around you only plays 1 minute maps for easy 500 pp plays). I'm not sure if I'm the only one that feels this way though.
To be fairly honest usually those 1 minute high pp play maps are usually played with mods and at least to me are super difficult to get high accuracy onPittigbaasje wrote:
It makes me sad to see people having a full list of top plays barely reaching over 1 minute in length. In most online games I know, when there is one thing that trumps every other form of play, they will nerf said method in a way. I would love to see something similar happen to osu!.
At the moment a lot of mappers know how to optimize their maps for maximum pp gains. This has both positive and negative effects. I personally believe we should take a closer look and define what a healthy meta should be. Before the optimisation of mapping, doubletime used to be somewhat healthy iirc. I noticed that nowadays, you will get looked down upon when you only have dubbeltime in your top plays.
Personally, my logic tells me that this meta can't be right. Hopefully we won't have to spam 1 minute maps in order to climb the rankings. (Sure, git gut may be a response for this. But climbing becomes really hard and demotivating if everybody around you only plays 1 minute maps for easy 500 pp plays). I'm not sure if I'm the only one that feels this way though.
I want to say that I do not mean to disrespect whatsoever.Fanboy wrote:
To be fairly honest usually those 1 minute high pp play maps are usually played with mods and at least to me are super difficult to get high accuracy onPittigbaasje wrote:
It makes me sad to see people having a full list of top plays barely reaching over 1 minute in length. In most online games I know, when there is one thing that trumps every other form of play, they will nerf said method in a way. I would love to see something similar happen to osu!.
At the moment a lot of mappers know how to optimize their maps for maximum pp gains. This has both positive and negative effects. I personally believe we should take a closer look and define what a healthy meta should be. Before the optimisation of mapping, doubletime used to be somewhat healthy iirc. I noticed that nowadays, you will get looked down upon when you only have dubbeltime in your top plays.
Personally, my logic tells me that this meta can't be right. Hopefully we won't have to spam 1 minute maps in order to climb the rankings. (Sure, git gut may be a response for this. But climbing becomes really hard and demotivating if everybody around you only plays 1 minute maps for easy 500 pp plays). I'm not sure if I'm the only one that feels this way though.
From my experience, there seemed to be a huge variety of maps you can efficiently gain ranks from at the lower amounts of total performance points. However once you reach those borders of difficulty (ar10+, od10) alternatives are becoming more and more scarce. Furthermore, by no means did I say all 1 minute maps are easy, nor irrelevant. I'm sure people enjoy actually listening the music in there. (so do I, from time to time)
What bothers me is that they are picked deliberately to be mapped in a certain way so they yield the maximum amount they can give. And with the way pp is calculated at the moment, they are just too easy for the amount of performance points they give.
Performance points are the only true in game reward you get for playing the game. Players of any game will always try to optimise the way they get their rewards. Mappers feed the community with what they want. So neither are to blame. I feel like the only thing that can restore balance is to adjust the pp calculations.
It's very hard or impossible to balance the pp system to the point where there is no imbalanced mapping styles. The best solution would be to get rid of it altogether.
I agree that it is very hard. Impossible, perhaps. However, I don't think that it has to be perfect in order for it to be fun and inviting to climb. Players will find the best way again eventually, and when that time comes, a small tweak can yet again solve the new problem with ease. Leaving the formula almost unchanged for years just doesn't seem right to me.B1rd wrote:
It's very hard or impossible to balance the pp system to the point where there is no imbalanced mapping styles. The best solution would be to get rid of it altogether.
Sometimes I get better scores and lose PP... Otherwise everything's fine!
yeah i came back from a long break and noticed that theres mappers who straight up make metronome ar9.1-9.5 jump maps with high OD. its actually really gross some of these maps even get ranked, i think theres some serious circlejerk going on in this games mapping community and severely damaging this kind of mapping would do wonders for the game in the long run
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7954422
Looks about right - perfect pp formula, perfect pp system, everything is in place
:thinking:
Looks about right - perfect pp formula, perfect pp system, everything is in place
:thinking:
Caradine
Hello... Where I can know about pp formula for definite map? If it possible at all.
Short rant... yet again... how pp formula is complete horseshit garbage:
All 3 maps are over 5 min long. Marathon size maps.
Now sit tight:
"Los" - around 1:40, NOT EVEN 5*
haitai - 40 seconds
OD is same for all of them.
Wish incoming osu!lazer brings complete rework of this bullshit.
All 3 maps are over 5 min long. Marathon size maps.
Now sit tight:
"Los" - around 1:40, NOT EVEN 5*
haitai - 40 seconds
OD is same for all of them.
Wish incoming osu!lazer brings complete rework of this bullshit.
Los is higher OD, higher accuracy and with HD so it gives more pp. haitai is higher star rating but significantly shorter so it gives less pp.
What is the problem?
What is the problem?
Weighting of map length = 30s or 5 min... doesn't matter for formula.
Sliders are non-existent for pp formula - main fucking issue.
Pretty much everything with pp formula.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1226973 - 99,40% acc FC with HD gives 374pp (amount of players able to pull this - can count on 2 hands)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/591987 - 100% HDDT gives 363pp (amount of players able to pull this - A LOT)
Please, if someone tell me that 20s harumachi HDDT is harder than 5min USAO... must visit mental doctor asap.
Sliders are non-existent for pp formula - main fucking issue.
Pretty much everything with pp formula.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1226973 - 99,40% acc FC with HD gives 374pp (amount of players able to pull this - can count on 2 hands)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/591987 - 100% HDDT gives 363pp (amount of players able to pull this - A LOT)
Please, if someone tell me that 20s harumachi HDDT is harder than 5min USAO... must visit mental doctor asap.
Length is absolutely involved in pp values of a map, just not as much as you seem to want it.
Sliders are existent in pp formula. It looks at the shortest possible path you can take. The problem is that 1: it doesnt take into account that you have to follow the sliderball and 2: a jump will always be faster than a slider.
Map length is a difficult subject because how are you going to accurately use it in pp calculation? Should a map that's twice as long give twice as much pp? Then you will soon end up with superinflated pp ratings just because that 4* map is 20 minutes. Should a map that's similar star rating but longer always be worth more pp, even if the od is lower? When length weighting was first added people complained that it was too strong so it got nerfed, now you think it's not strong enough. It's not just something where you change 1 number and be done with it.
Also you could work on your attitude.
Sliders are existent in pp formula. It looks at the shortest possible path you can take. The problem is that 1: it doesnt take into account that you have to follow the sliderball and 2: a jump will always be faster than a slider.
Map length is a difficult subject because how are you going to accurately use it in pp calculation? Should a map that's twice as long give twice as much pp? Then you will soon end up with superinflated pp ratings just because that 4* map is 20 minutes. Should a map that's similar star rating but longer always be worth more pp, even if the od is lower? When length weighting was first added people complained that it was too strong so it got nerfed, now you think it's not strong enough. It's not just something where you change 1 number and be done with it.
Also you could work on your attitude.
Map length is just weighted too little in comparison to how aim and speed values are weighted. Consistency is... lets be honest, one of harder skills to maintain because human nature of nerves and stress has his role in it. How many people out of all players in rank range from 50 to 10k are able to consistently play with high accuracy and FC in 10-20 tires marathon size maps and how many are able to do this to 1 min maps. While rank going up, more people starting to be able to play longer maps but it is still an issue if you gained your ranks by playing exclusively TV-Size maps.
Map length should have bigger impact for pp just because it is way easier to pull out 200pp score from daidai dt spamming it over and over than from for example this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53554?m=0 - OD9 7 min vs OD 9.7 2 min map.
Here is one thing:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53554?m=0 - 99% = ~220pp
daidai genome DT only 93% acc fc = ~223pp
Now, difficulty wise - pulling 99% on Emotional Skyscraper ~ World's End is wayyy harder than pulling 93% fc on daidai genome.
Sorry for my attitude, issues with pp formula still driving me out, even that I don't play actively anymore due this particular issue.
Map length should have bigger impact for pp just because it is way easier to pull out 200pp score from daidai dt spamming it over and over than from for example this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53554?m=0 - OD9 7 min vs OD 9.7 2 min map.
Here is one thing:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53554?m=0 - 99% = ~220pp
daidai genome DT only 93% acc fc = ~223pp
Now, difficulty wise - pulling 99% on Emotional Skyscraper ~ World's End is wayyy harder than pulling 93% fc on daidai genome.
Sorry for my attitude, issues with pp formula still driving me out, even that I don't play actively anymore due this particular issue.
so far so good until the PerformancePlus launched.
Here is an example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38235 I have 94.46% on DTFC and got 262pp, but the same score there are more than 310pp in the PP+
Now I'm in meditation, why the beatmap contains TONS of streams still gives less pp than a many stupid jumps like daidai gonome?
I'm really really care about the streams take up how many percentage weight in the pp system, to fc a beatmap with many high speed streams is not easy for most people, but many people can jump easily even with the touchscreen.
Here is an example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38235 I have 94.46% on DTFC and got 262pp, but the same score there are more than 310pp in the PP+
Now I'm in meditation, why the beatmap contains TONS of streams still gives less pp than a many stupid jumps like daidai gonome?
I'm really really care about the streams take up how many percentage weight in the pp system, to fc a beatmap with many high speed streams is not easy for most people, but many people can jump easily even with the touchscreen.
Because distance spacing on streams is short and for pp formula "it is worth nothing".
Yet, getting good acc on stream heavy map like River styx is super hard in comparison to 1-3x 100 daidai HDDT.
99% acc fc river styx gives same pp as HDDT 1 x 100 on daidai.
Amount of people able to pull out 99% acc fc on river styx - not many...
1 x 100 HDDT daidai - well... every single 4-digit pp farmer.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yet, getting good acc on stream heavy map like River styx is super hard in comparison to 1-3x 100 daidai HDDT.
99% acc fc river styx gives same pp as HDDT 1 x 100 on daidai.
Amount of people able to pull out 99% acc fc on river styx - not many...
1 x 100 HDDT daidai - well... every single 4-digit pp farmer.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I know it was changed before ppv2 was implemented but wouldn't it be good to have a percentage of the pp gained come from the actual rank achieved on leader board of a map? I see a couple of problems that my young brain can't find solutions for, like people constantly refreshing the new ranked maps page. I thought that maybe some sort of proportion could be set for players played and time the map has been out or something but then that would make people wait for everyone else to play it. If someone does find a solution to solve this issue, would this idea still be nice?
This is how ppv1 worked and it was shit.Tilt on English wrote:
I know it was changed before ppv2 was implemented but wouldn't it be good to have a percentage of the pp gained come from the actual rank achieved on leader board of a map? I see a couple of problems that my young brain can't find solutions for, like people constantly refreshing the new ranked maps page. I thought that maybe some sort of proportion could be set for players played and time the map has been out or something but then that would make people wait for everyone else to play it. If someone does find a solution to solve this issue, would this idea still be nice?
ppv2 is also shit.
Only autistics who mindlessly play 99%+ always FC get pp.
rest is screwed.
Only autistics who mindlessly play 99%+ always FC get pp.
rest is screwed.
I played this game a lot in the past years and stopped playing it actively about a year ago. I found my skill cap I guess. The game gives no more reward for my plays. In the 4 digit ranks it's not enough to fc 5.4* maps with under 99.5% to get any pp.
Also the fact that you must full combo the maps AND get very high accuracy makes it even more unattractive in higher ranks. You can't play this game casual (1 hour max. per day) if you want some kind of positive feedback for playing it.
I just want this 'reward feeling' back when passing maps even with like 92% on long streaming maps etc. Or if I combo break just once in the middle of a map. Absolute no reward even with 99.90%. But all I get is a -1 rank after every map tho.
I just wanted to share my thoughts about this never ending topic even though I have no idea how to make it better or more rewarding. But I think many people get stuck and stop playing actively cause these reasons.
Also the fact that you must full combo the maps AND get very high accuracy makes it even more unattractive in higher ranks. You can't play this game casual (1 hour max. per day) if you want some kind of positive feedback for playing it.
I just want this 'reward feeling' back when passing maps even with like 92% on long streaming maps etc. Or if I combo break just once in the middle of a map. Absolute no reward even with 99.90%. But all I get is a -1 rank after every map tho.
I just wanted to share my thoughts about this never ending topic even though I have no idea how to make it better or more rewarding. But I think many people get stuck and stop playing actively cause these reasons.
If you're not improving you shouldn't be ranking up over players who are.Hydrano wrote:
I played this game a lot in the past years and stopped playing it actively about a year ago. I found my skill cap I guess. The game gives no more reward for my plays. In the 4 digit ranks it's not enough to fc 5.4* maps with under 99.5% to get any pp.
Also the fact that you must full combo the maps AND get very high accuracy makes it even more unattractive in higher ranks. You can't play this game casual (1 hour max. per day) if you want some kind of positive feedback for playing it.
I just want this 'reward feeling' back when passing maps even with like 92% on long streaming maps etc. Or if I combo break just once in the middle of a map. Absolute no reward even with 99.90%. But all I get is a -1 rank after every map tho.
I just wanted to share my thoughts about this never ending topic even though I have no idea how to make it better or more rewarding. But I think many people get stuck and stop playing actively cause these reasons.
E m i
tell that to SyeruP who SSes all stream maps below 200bpm with HDHRKiciuk wrote:
ppv2 is also shit.
Only autistics who mindlessly play 99%+ always FC get pp.
rest is screwed.
tell that to Epiphany who gets 50 ur on everything
tell that to My Aim Trash who gets 60 ur on hardcore bursty 270~285bpm maps
tell that to KeigoClear who seemingly never gets 100s on 180-240bpm streams
tell that to XII who gets 80 ur on everything 290-320bpm doesn't matter how streamy it is.
tell that to all the people who had to get 70 ur on long ass OD7 marathons to SS them, for 2 more pp than some 100 ur 2x100 score.
tell that to fuckin Cookiezi who ssed this: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/102999?m=0
with 59 ur (od10.3 ss tier) just to receive some retarded 300 pp range score.
Overall, you began to imply that acc is overrated and I bet 310bpm stream maps and 420bpm alt maps are overrated too because they're DT
Underrated postMomiji wrote:
tell that to SyeruP who SSes all stream maps below 200bpm with HDHR
tell that to Epiphany who gets 50 ur on everything
tell that to My Aim Trash who gets 60 ur on hardcore bursty 270~285bpm maps
tell that to KeigoClear who seemingly never gets 100s on 180-240bpm streams
tell that to XII who gets 80 ur on everything 290-320bpm doesn't matter how streamy it is.
tell that to all the people who had to get 70 ur on long ass OD7 marathons to SS them, for 2 more pp than some 100 ur 2x100 score.
tell that to fuckin Cookiezi who ssed this: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/102999?m=0
with 59 ur (od10.3 ss tier) just to receive some retarded 300 pp range score.
Overall, you began to imply that acc is overrated and I bet 310bpm stream maps and 420bpm alt maps are overrated too because they're DT
^Kiciuk wrote:
ppv2 is also shit.
Only autistics who mindlessly play 99%+ always FC get pp.
rest is screwed.
One of reasons why I don't admit of being a polish citizen
Acc should always have highest value in pp formula, right after it combo.
E m i
Why not make miss count stronger? Missing 4 times as much (8 miss vs 2 miss) will eat like 10% of the pp, while halving your combo will eat 50% of the aim pp.[Taiga] wrote:
^Kiciuk wrote:
ppv2 is also shit.
Only autistics who mindlessly play 99%+ always FC get pp.
rest is screwed.
One of reasons why I don't admit of being a polish citizen
Acc should always have highest value in pp formula, right after it combo.
Actually I don't mind combo being the most important, but how many times more important than miss count should it be? Twice as important, 4 times as important? I think twice as important would be ok but what the game does currently is not even funny.
Extra:
1. Misses subtract a percentage of the total pp. Missing 5% of circles in a 200 combo map (10 misses) will result in a reduction significantly lesser than missing 2% of circles in a 5000 combo map for example. One more mechanism of making short maps overrated
2. Combo doesn't consider the difficulty of the map over time, spike placement is a mechanism for making maps overrated -.-
AgreedKiciuk wrote:
ppv2 is also shit.
Only autistics who mindlessly play 99%+ always FC get pp.
rest is screwed.
My main complaint is the huge amount of pp given at higher accuracy at high OD even if the map is really short *cof cof OKDAD or Elmo and the Monster Coockie eater*
Instead of basing almost everything accuracy pp at OD, instead focus at giving larger pp rewards from longer maps which aren't that high OD at all. Retrying on shorter maps still getting a lucky try with higher accuracy gives people pp which they don't deserve at all because of no constancy.
While we see OD7.5 maps which are x1700 combo that gives less from accuracy scaling than silly OD+9.75 (OD8 or higher +DT) maps of under x300 combo which is kinda absurd. Accuracy at higher OD needs to be LESS EXPONENTIAL mostly because pp is not a lineal system and there is the huge mistake of making accuracy an exponential variable. While I complain too about that 97-98% HR values are extremely low but that at +99% they start becoming so overrated.
Maybe you don't know, but in some DT/HR maps with OD close to 10 and at least x850 combo length if there are the right amount of hit circles, the diference between a 95% and 100% acc is over 100 pp !! which the difference between 99% and 100% is almost the half than in 95% to 100% !!. The problem actually is by under-rewarding accuracy below 98% at higher OD but kinda over-rewarding high accuracy at that OD.
And the problem is even bigger the lower stars a map has. As I said, pp rewards doesn't work lineally and that's the problem of actual pp accuracy values. For some people a 98% acc 200 pp values +0.01 pp but 275 pp 99.50% is like +40 or even +60 pp (which CAN happen in the cases of x850 maps with 4.8 - 5.3 stars with OD between OD9 and OD10)
Apart, that I'm completely agree with that some stuff done with lower acc but still FC are satisfactory but not so well rewarded in pp.
Instead of basing almost everything accuracy pp at OD, instead focus at giving larger pp rewards from longer maps which aren't that high OD at all. Retrying on shorter maps still getting a lucky try with higher accuracy gives people pp which they don't deserve at all because of no constancy.
While we see OD7.5 maps which are x1700 combo that gives less from accuracy scaling than silly OD+9.75 (OD8 or higher +DT) maps of under x300 combo which is kinda absurd. Accuracy at higher OD needs to be LESS EXPONENTIAL mostly because pp is not a lineal system and there is the huge mistake of making accuracy an exponential variable. While I complain too about that 97-98% HR values are extremely low but that at +99% they start becoming so overrated.
Maybe you don't know, but in some DT/HR maps with OD close to 10 and at least x850 combo length if there are the right amount of hit circles, the diference between a 95% and 100% acc is over 100 pp !! which the difference between 99% and 100% is almost the half than in 95% to 100% !!. The problem actually is by under-rewarding accuracy below 98% at higher OD but kinda over-rewarding high accuracy at that OD.
And the problem is even bigger the lower stars a map has. As I said, pp rewards doesn't work lineally and that's the problem of actual pp accuracy values. For some people a 98% acc 200 pp values +0.01 pp but 275 pp 99.50% is like +40 or even +60 pp (which CAN happen in the cases of x850 maps with 4.8 - 5.3 stars with OD between OD9 and OD10)
Apart, that I'm completely agree with that some stuff done with lower acc but still FC are satisfactory but not so well rewarded in pp.
I think making the PP gain of using mods like HD and DT less. i see the skill involved in using every mod but some of them feel very overweighted pp wise.
Hidden should not give any bonus pp. It is a vision mod that basically becomes a preference at AR9 and higher. It doesn't make the map any harder 99% of the time yet adds loads of PP.
https://puu.sh/yXzIE/97309fb326.png 30% bonus aim PP so basically yes since AR11 is only used on the very balanced TV size "aim" maps out there, and we all know it's definitely not memorization so it's totally normal that it gives that much of a bonus XD. Not to mention the ridiculous bonus for OD11 too even on low acc but that's normal too right ?
Also it's basically the last thing Tom ever did with PP, 3 years ago. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog?category=pp
Also it's basically the last thing Tom ever did with PP, 3 years ago. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog?category=pp
agreed on the accuracy thing at least. high accuracy on low OD(SS/single digit 100s on marathons) is underrated as well
AR11 +30% WTF! I never knew that. Seems a bit excessive.
HD is free pp on almost every map that is already a pp map, because the patterns are super easy. In my experience it only makes streams harder the spacier they are. And, I am less capable of reading triples in big jumps when playing HDHR. This is just a personal thing but it is definitely caused by HD.
HD is free pp on almost every map that is already a pp map, because the patterns are super easy. In my experience it only makes streams harder the spacier they are. And, I am less capable of reading triples in big jumps when playing HDHR. This is just a personal thing but it is definitely caused by HD.
is it ever realistic to believe that sliders will be properly weighted?
I highly doubt it. It's too difficult and too much work for the small team that osu has.
So in 2-3 years every top score will be hdhrdt and anyone who can't read ar11 wont be able to compete. Shouldn't AR be a preference like it is in mania? You could just as easily give +30% pp for low AR because some people find it harder to aim there.Kynan wrote:
https://puu.sh/yXzIE/97309fb326.png 30% bonus aim PP so basically yes since AR11 is only used on the very balanced TV size "aim" maps out there, and we all know it's definitely not memorization so it's totally normal that it gives that much of a bonus XD. Not to mention the ridiculous bonus for OD11 too even on low acc but that's normal too right ?
Also it's basically the last thing Tom ever did with PP, 3 years ago. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog?category=pp
Tom94 wrote:
Hello everyone,
please leave your feedback for the Standard mode performance ranking here. Every suggestion is appreciated!
Changes to the system are documented in the changelog.
Its very good!
Does acount standing can affect off pp gaining?? because in my dashboard historitical i get 26pp but in profile it's only counted 6 pp idk it's going so hard to gainning pp
I do not get the right amount of pp that I should earn
In my profile it shows that I won 12 but in fact I did not get any pp
Help
In my profile it shows that I won 12 but in fact I did not get any pp
Help
Hello:) here is a old map, i just back this game want to Rank it.
I hope i can get some advise for rank. thanks.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/634927/#osu/1347057
I hope i can get some advise for rank. thanks.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/634927/#osu/1347057
Mec wrote:
Hello:) here is a old map, i just back this game want to Rank it.
I hope i can get some advise for rank. thanks.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/634927/#osu/1347057
not the place to ask
Why don't make PP scores works as the same way as ranked score? Making one PP score per mapset would help very much in the most polemic PP problem nowadays: the farming (especially in those maps where the only purpose they exist is for PP farming)
Is it possible that in due time, something will be done to balance DT and FL pp wise?
They both propose a 0.12 increase in score yet they yield such a different pp value that it makes FL worthless to someone who can go fast. As well as making it seem as if someone with good memory is equivalent in skill to a rather, very fast play. It also blocks off people from setting higher pp scores on a map that they already have a FL score on. Unsurprisingly that's the case I'm in in fact.
Say you were to take 2 notes. Each note is hit for 300 score, then multiplied by each mod (and combo) to 1008 score. However the PP value they have could easily be drastically different, so why isn't the score as well? It makes setting better pp scores (for example, on a map that you really love to play) pretty hard if you want to mod it a bit.
They both propose a 0.12 increase in score yet they yield such a different pp value that it makes FL worthless to someone who can go fast. As well as making it seem as if someone with good memory is equivalent in skill to a rather, very fast play. It also blocks off people from setting higher pp scores on a map that they already have a FL score on.
Say you were to take 2 notes. Each note is hit for 300 score, then multiplied by each mod (and combo) to 1008 score. However the PP value they have could easily be drastically different, so why isn't the score as well? It makes setting better pp scores (for example, on a map that you really love to play) pretty hard if you want to mod it a bit.
This hasn't been the case for quite a while now. osu! saves all scores made with different mod combinations and the one that's worth the most pp is the one that gets used.Portall wrote:
It also blocks off people from setting higher pp scores on a map that they already have a FL score on.Unsurprisingly that's the case I'm in in fact.
Because score predates pp by about 7 years.Portall wrote:
Say you were to take 2 notes. Each note is hit for 300 score, then multiplied by each mod (and combo) to 1008 score. However the PP value they have could easily be drastically different, so why isn't the score as well? It makes setting better pp scores (for example, on a map that you really love to play) pretty hard if you want to mod it a bit.
The pp system seems way too favoured towards high ar maps atm with jumps. I also feel like EZ could get a buff and FL plays could be appreciated more by the pp system. Apart from that I think the recent HD nerf was much needed. The system is very complex which means it is hard to be tampered with and I think the state of the system is fine atm but these issues above need to be addressed.
Tom94 wrote:
Hello everyone,
please leave your feedback for the Standard mode performance ranking here. Every suggestion is appreciated!
Changes to the system are documented in the changelog.
Honestly the pp system should go by actual graphics over the programming, maybe make sliders more worth your time, more pp heavy farm maps will be more enjoyable
Playing Hard Songs is worthless.
Speed and difficulty already needed a buff now there irrelevant due to speed accuracy changes. Simply surviving a harder song then your used to with any accuracy is much harder then nearly full combing a much easy song with a insured high accuracy.
Example:
After 3 attempts to survive ("Make a move")insane 4.9 stars, i did it! with a inevitably low accuracy and combo who cares it was difficult for me. because of low accuracy you get 14pp which might as while be a slap in the face or even trying.
to proof a point
My first try of ("Black and White")hard 3.4 stars i got 94% and 38pp. I didn't even full combo it and got double the points of a much harder beat map.
Returning the speed accuracy to what it was would make this problem less critical, but ideally it should be changed in the opposite directions to encourage player to improve there ability's not just perfect the easiest songs they can full combo.
Speed and difficulty already needed a buff now there irrelevant due to speed accuracy changes. Simply surviving a harder song then your used to with any accuracy is much harder then nearly full combing a much easy song with a insured high accuracy.
Example:
After 3 attempts to survive ("Make a move")insane 4.9 stars, i did it! with a inevitably low accuracy and combo who cares it was difficult for me. because of low accuracy you get 14pp which might as while be a slap in the face or even trying.
to proof a point
My first try of ("Black and White")hard 3.4 stars i got 94% and 38pp. I didn't even full combo it and got double the points of a much harder beat map.
Returning the speed accuracy to what it was would make this problem less critical, but ideally it should be changed in the opposite directions to encourage player to improve there ability's not just perfect the easiest songs they can full combo.
Star rating is not meant to reflect difficulty to pass but simply difficulty to full combo. To that end, pp is mostly rewarded based on combo, with some concessions for partial combo and a focus on accuracy.