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Newbie Game 15: Rise From The Ashes [Game over!]

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Zexion
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
Zexion
"I've never seen a mod being so mentioned in a non-bastard game"

Votecount 2.5
-[Jess]- [2] - Sakura, B1rd
Frostings [1] - abraker
rEdo [0] -
Hika [0] -
Sakura [0] -
abraker [0] -
B1rd [0] -
beeboy123 [0] -

No Lynch [0] -
Not Voting [5] - -[Jess]-, Frostings , rEdo, beeboy123, Hika
With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Day 2 ends on Feb 23th, 22:00 UTC.
Sakura and beeboy123 are V/LA until Feb 20th.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Sakura defends Frosting
Frosting defends Hika
Sakura attacks Hika

*Raises eyebrow*
-[Jess]-
1,086 posts
Joined March 2014
-[Jess]-
Sigh,the dead is real
Will post some of my thought on this tmr since I am tried
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
smh.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
I'm at work and I have class right after. I'll be happy to respond when the people who we've said needed to post, decides to post. Smh.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Some people were supposedly waiting for me and only Hika and abraker ever replied.
Hmm...
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Oh wait Frosty and B1rd did as well
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Actually I think you posted a good amount. I was referring to bboy and Jess.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
I'm sort of just waiting to hear what other people think over my comments about beeboy being scummy
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
My current main question is "Does anyone have any reason to believe Jess is town?"
I already got your opinions on Hika.
Zexion
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
Zexion
@Sakura, beeboy: do you consider a 24h day extention neccesary?

Votecount 2.6
-[Jess]- [2] - Sakura, B1rd
Frostings [1] - abraker
rEdo [0] -
Hika [0] -
Sakura [0] -
abraker [0] -
B1rd [0] -
beeboy123 [0] -

No Lynch [0] -
Not Voting [5] - -[Jess]-, Frostings , rEdo, beeboy123, Hika
With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.


Frostings has been prodded.
rEdo has been prodded.
Day 2 ends on Feb 23th, 22:00 UTC.
Sakura and beeboy123's V/LA are over. Prod timer is reset for beeboy123.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Sakura wrote:

My current main question is "Does anyone have any reason to believe Jess is town?"
I already got your opinions on Hika.
I have no reason to believe Jess is scum either unfortunately. She is a hard read

But did she screw up with voting for someone like that before? Better question is she always this clueless about what is going on?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Zexion wrote:

@Sakura, beeboy: do you consider a 24h day extention neccesary?

Based on what I've read, people are going everywhere and there's no cohesion.
So i'd say yes to that extension.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

abraker wrote:

Sakura wrote:

My current main question is "Does anyone have any reason to believe Jess is town?"
I already got your opinions on Hika.
I have no reason to believe Jess is scum either unfortunately. She is a hard read

But did she screw up with voting for someone like that before? Better question is she always this clueless about what is going on?
The former, i think she has, but i cant recall. The later, yes. I cannot say whether it's true she's clueless or just pretending tho, since it always comes across as such, but i have no way to know what's going in her head.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
From experience we should be reaching a consensus by the time there's 48h left on the clock, to have enough time to analyze anything left over or in case a player turns out to town it up when being roped.
As people say, alignment is much easier to read at the face of pressure.
Btw for some reason i thought it was 4 to lynch and not 5 to lynch i completely forgot about the lack of death during the night.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
But seriously we have about a lil less than 3 days remaining with 5 people not voting, one of those not even being around yet. Assuming bee's town, that means there's 7 votes 2 of which are scum that are currently active, and that means that EVERY SINGLE TOWN PLAYER must vote to lynch.
I hope bee comes around and gives some insight sooner or later. I'd also like the people not voting to put their vote somewhere.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
I'd like to lynch Jess today, she's probably the safest bet
We have a free lynch right now so it'll save us the trouble of having choosing between her and someone else later on when it actually matters
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings

-[Jess]- wrote:

Sigh,the dead is real
Will post some of my thought on this tmr since I am tried
Though I'd like to hear what she has to say
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Actually, why are you saying it's dead when we had a ton of content @ Jess

you're not even trying anymore
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Hika wrote:

Actually, why are you saying it's dead when we had a ton of content @ Jess

you're not even trying anymore
I was hoping that was a typo much like many other things she writes
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
I'm *pretty* sure a policy lynch on Jess is an alright move for us today. I'm tired of her not talking.

Vote: -[Jess]-

Sorry for my inactivity earlier, was busy with a job talk.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Still feel uncomfortable voting on Jesse due to the lack of info. I am staying on Frostings unless I get evidence that is as good or better than what I got for him.

Also it kinda feels weird that nobody questioned my vote in him. Can somebody at least point out if I have any faults in my reasoning?
-[Jess]-
1,086 posts
Joined March 2014
-[Jess]-

Hika wrote:

Actually, why are you saying it's dead when we had a ton of content @ Jess

you're not even trying anymore
Because everyone won't listen of my word,they just want to get a "safe lynch" for me and help scum to lynch a town

Two of people voted reason is because my vote in D1 make them think it is a scum move and My action in past make them think they should PL Jess again is a right move.they just saying whom player are scum for them and still want to vote me.Just why would you think it's is a right move to lynch a town player?why don't you vote the one that you think it is more scummy than me?
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

-[Jess]- wrote:

Because everyone won't listen of my word,they just want to get a "safe lynch" for me and help scum to lynch a town

Two of people voted reason is because my vote in D1 make them think it is a scum move and My action in past make them think they should PL Jess again is a right move.they just saying whom player are scum for them and still want to vote me.Just why would you think it's is a right move to lynch a town player?why don't you vote the one that you think it is more scummy than me?
I had to read this twice to full understand.

Because:
a) You're not contributing at all. We are listening, and we want to listen to you, but it just seems like you have nothing constructive to say.
b) You hammered without even talking to anyone about this (I know you posted a few hours earlier you're gonna hammer if nobody else does)
c) The reason people vote you over the people they find scummy is to (quoting Frostings here) "save us a headache later". The behavior from b) is an outright scum move or a vanillia idiot one. So even if you actually do flip town, it's at least going to make the game progress instead of stagnating like it's happening right now. But I guess it's not just because of you, but because of bboy's inactivity.

My reads are not as clear as I want them to be, that's why my vote sits on you.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I would say something, but rEdo's pretty much said what i wanted to say.
Only thing to add is Jess you keep saying PL this, PL that, you made something scum would do, and are doing something scum does (lots of words, zero contribution, just being self preserving, not scumhunting). In your eyes, why should I believe you're town when you've been acting like scum does? from my PoV you have higher chance of flipping scum than town.
-[Jess]-
1,086 posts
Joined March 2014
-[Jess]-
So that all my fault for not contribute enough ,I can understand that why it's all happen to me and since I am very terrible at say out of my thoughts
vote:Jess If you want to
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
...well you're not gonna do yourself any favours by self-voting and sulking (or town, for that matter). Jess, maybe you should consider that if you made more of an effort to improve your gameplay you wouldn't always end up in situations like this in the first place.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123

Zexion wrote:

@Sakura, beeboy: do you consider a 24h day extention neccesary?
No thanks Kappa Ya.

I'll post tonight once I can put time into this game without worrying about needing to do anything else.
I should have posted last night but I forgot oops?

No hammer until I am back pls.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59109
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
What's funny is that while that is a self-vote related topic some of the things pointed out such as:

Thor665 wrote:

Why should I be allowed to get away with that? Why should town need to try to sort out whether someone is a derp town or a vile scum just due to a single vote?
Can apply pretty much to most of what Jess does.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
I ain't hammering that due to wanting to hear bboy.
Afterward, we can hammer her because sulking ain't gonna save your "town" behind at the end of the day.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

-[Jess]- wrote:

So that all my fault for not contribute enough ,I can understand that why it's all happen to me and since I am very terrible at say out of my thoughts
vote:Jess If you want to
Jess, why...

Either you are a scum who now sees no way out
Or you are the second most unfortunate and extremely stupid townie
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
Who's the first one?
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Dawnsday, I assume.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Jess takes the cake because she hammered him without explanantion, actually.
-[Jess]-
1,086 posts
Joined March 2014
-[Jess]-
Sorry for getting emotional
unvote
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Btw i'd still advise against putting Jess at L-1, she can self-hammer to cut off discussion before we hear from bee.
Zexion
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
Zexion
Votecount 2.7
-[Jess]- [3] - Sakura, B1rd, rEdo (L-2)
Frostings [1] - abraker
rEdo [0] -
Hika [0] -
Sakura [0] -
abraker [0] -
B1rd [0] -
beeboy123 [0] -

No Lynch [0] -
Not Voting [4] - Frostings, beeboy123, Hika, -[Jess]-
With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.


Deadline for Day 2 has been extended by 24 hours!
Day 2 ends on Feb 24th, 22:00 UTC.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
Prod Dodge
Been busy all day :(
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123

rEdo wrote:

Beeboy, explain why do you think I'm conftown. Tell me who's scum.
Because you would have been CC'd by now if you were scum. A bullet proof has no reason to not CC and I don't think a doc would value there action over lynching conf scum.

B1rd wrote:

Firstly, I think beeboy is suspicious. The first reason maybe isn't objective but it's been a personal tell of mine that have achieved results in the past: everyone usually jokes at the start, but when someone continues a jokes past its worth, or continues to act not serious, that is an indicator that that person is scum. And that's what he did with the whole 'I'm mason' thing. The other reason is that he pretty much was a fence sitter the whole first day, and the second day he hasn't done much except jump on bandwagons of already suspicious people. This seems like typical scummy behaviour.
I said I wasn't a mason 16 posts into the game so I didn't really do what you were saying at all.
I mean I am pretty sure I said Dawnsday was town all of day 1 so I am not exactly sure what I fence sat on.
And all I have done this day phase was the vote counter claim and ask people questions. I don't see how voting a counter claim is scummy and I don't know why you are referring to bandwagons as a plural when I haven't voted anyone else.
Like literally nothing you said is true.

-[Jess]- wrote:

About "now I see why dawn is scum"
It means nothing that he trust a people who only said and read it as town,I don't know how to said and my mind is unclear.I thought he was in L-2 so I voted to push him.
That all
I'd vote Jess for this considering she declared intent to hammer earlier so idk why she would suddenly think Dawnsday is at L-2.

B1rd wrote:

I'm wondering why beeboy suddenly VL/A'd right after Sakura in exactly the same way, it could just be a coincidence but it could also him buying himself time to think of way to get out of the heat he's in.
This is against the rules.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
Uh anyway I kinda suck at catching up I think that was everything directed at me?
Anyway I'll post my reads in a bit.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
Hika - could be scum. I don't get the whole obbession with not wanting to be copped. The only time I have actually seen this happen with a town player before was when that player was a commuter and didn't want to claim ascetic cause they thought they could block a NK.

Sakura - I am pretty sure Sakura is town here. Pretty sure she would be more apathetic if she was scum in this game after a decently sized break from mafia. And as scum I find her reads to feel more like attempts at pushing people and doing things (like her read on me in musical mafia in that 1/2 day before she replaced out) rather then actual attempts at solving the game.

abraker - I don't think abraker is actually trying to push people for someone with such a high volume of posts. It is a scum tell for me when people have such a high volume of posts without ever really pushing people or changing the pace of the game. so he could also be scum.

-[Jess]- - I literally don't understand how Jess would think Dawnsday wasn't at L-1 when she declared intent on an earlier page.

Frostings - I think Frosting defending Hika isn't something scum would do, it's a defense that I'd imagine would bring on more questions and attention he wouldn't want. He is also generating content and moving the game forward so he is prolly town.

B1rd - I think B1rd's attempts of solving the game and the fact he is push me in general to develop his read is pretty town but I also think his read on me is total garbage which evens that out.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
Scum team is Jess + abraker/Hika
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
I'll vote Jess if no one has any problems in a decent chunk of hours. (like tomorrow morning
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
nice try
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
also my thoughts didn't change even after bboy' post sadly. So we're gonna wait until D3.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Hika wrote:

Also heads up, I'll have a list of reads when I get more posts from bboy.
Still waiting
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
yeah you can wait I'm at work
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Buuuut for now I'm gonna say scum team is probably you and frosty
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
And btw I will have a better confirmation on that day 3
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Sakura wrote:

Hika wrote:

Keep pushing me as not town and I might have to vote you because you'll just suddenly turn to scummy for me :^)
what's with the sudden OMGUS threat? Am I also going to suddenly turn to scummy for you as well? :^)
lol called it.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
stuff happens
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

beeboy123 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

I'm wondering why beeboy suddenly VL/A'd right after Sakura in exactly the same way, it could just be a coincidence but it could also him buying himself time to think of way to get out of the heat he's in.
This is against the rules.
I'm not gonna read/reply to everything at this point in time, but I've read every rule, and there is nothing that remotely pertains to this.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
4.9 I'd be loopholing the prod system by abusing VLA.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Faking V/LA is against the rules yes. bee wouldnt do something like that.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings

Hika wrote:

Buuuut for now I'm gonna say scum team is probably you and frosty
lol wtf where did this come from
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Beeboy reads as town for me. Idk why a scum would want to fake a role to be questioned throughout the game later. That will be a handicap from the start. Also dawn claimed the fake role and turned town, so I can believe Beeboy is town despite the fake claim.

I always fear that scum can be good at acting. I tend to ignore statements "scum wouldn't do x" or "x is not something scum would do" because of this.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
how are people STILL going on about the mason claim
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
Also I don't really like where the reads are going
Many are automatically assuming Jess is scum
While there's obviously good reason to think that, I don't think anyone here can actually read her all that well
The ones reading her as scum are probably unprepared for a potential but unsurprising townflip from Jess and it's messing up a lot of the scumpartner reads
I would really like to take this game on in Day 3, but if Jess flips town and scum's not afk then it'd be MyLo on D3 already
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Also a thought.

If we are in a setup with a doctor, then unless the player protected self, then the player should 100% know the player they protected is townie
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
An analysis in changes of town reads before and after the 1st day should hint whether rEdo is really bulletproof townie or not.
If the analysis does work, we might figure out a scum, a doctor, and a townie sEdo is not bulletproof townie
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
forgot "if" between townie and the sEdo typo
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Doctor's cant protect themselves generally, but that's 100% the case on matrix 6 (and newbie games).
Why would a doctor fakeclaim 1shot BP? if rEdo's scum then he should've been counter claimed already, scum know who they shot (unless they no killed which is all sorts of wtf).
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Hmm it didnt occure to me that if rEdo was fake claiming, then the actual bulletproof townie must have counter claimed by now since that townie has nothing loose (that townie would live when shot)

Alright so rEdo is confirmed town then?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

abraker wrote:

Hmm it didnt occure to me that if rEdo was fake claiming, then the actual bulletproof townie must have counter claimed by now since that townie has nothing loose (that townie would live when shot)

Alright so rEdo is confirmed town then?
or the townie's a doctor (doctor can CC 1shot BP since they cant be together in the same setup).
rEdo's indeed conf town until someone CCs, and if someone flips town doctor or BP then... rEdo's pretty much confscum.

But i highly doubt anyone wouldnt have CC'd yet, and i'd take any CC to rEdo at this point as a scum claim because they've had all the time in the world to CC.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
it doesn't make sense to fakeclaim anything at the start of Day 2 after the D1 and N1 events whether you're scum or town. rEdo is 99% telling the truth
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
It is a posibility. Denying possibilities will drive you away from the truth.
While i disagree that scum wouldnt fake claim at that point, i do think that town would've CC'd by now regardless.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
I have a townread on Hika. rEdo is conftown, and I'm getting good vibes from beeboy and Sakura

By PoE scum is among Jess abraker and B1rd from my PoV
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

abraker wrote:

I always fear that scum can be good at acting. I tend to ignore statements "scum wouldn't do x" or "x is not something scum would do" because of this.
^
By the way this is a good mindset to have, I remembered GIF mentioning something like that in lovers mafia, which im re-reading right now to compare Hika's scumgame from there to Hika's game here, just in case.
But when i came across this: p/4504905 and the followups it reminded me of what you said.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Hika wrote:

nah if I was scum I wouldn't have voted

keep it in mind

Hika wrote:

I'm live on a computer in a approximately 2 hours max.
I'll answer this for you shortly.

Mind you, the not voting thing is a 50% thing.
I kinda want to revisit these statements after re-reading lovers mafia.
For starters the first statement turns out to be a lie, the 2nd statement completely invalidates the first with the 50% thing, since then it's not a meta tell, so why was it mentioned in the first place?

Hika wrote:

literally said I don't care

I'm VT
believe it or not, if you're surprised I'm sorry
wasting an investigative check on me is pointless, and to a doctor, it's pointless to protect me
I don't do anything but vote. If me not being VT doesn't help then sorry but I literally claimed my role D1, all before this soooo
This also feels all kinds of wrong to me, i know bee already mentioned about hika being worried about investigatives on her, I don't see why it's pointless to protect her if she's town.

Then there's all her soft-defense / soft-attack switching with Jess and never commiting to either one, which is how some people feel with their scum partner specially if it's Jess.

The difference tho, her posts seemed to lack more dedication in lovers mafia, like less fire, could be the case of a different partner i guess (GIF was pretty much doing all the work back then), but it's something that could be alignment related.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
Since I'm gonna get NK'd tonight, it's time for a proper readlist. But hey, I'm gonna pretty much reinvent the wheel here.
  1. Sakura. I can't imagine her being scum. She seems to be genuinely trying to solve the game.
  2. B1rd. I'm getting nice town read vibes coming from B1rd. At first I was suspicious of him being scum, but that changed over time.
  3. Frostings' posts so far express a logic that's almost 1-1 to mine, literally nothing he wrote is something I don't agree with. Since I believe I have a town thinking, Frostings should be town as well. What is more, I can't really any arguments confirming he's scum.
  4. Hika seems to be sort of overprotective when it comes to herself, but that's pretty much how she played in the other games. That thing with her counter-claiming me as a VT seems to be a huge flaw in logic in townie's thinking. Hey, did you see that word? Yes, the one you're thinking of!
  5. Jess. Do I have to comment on this one?
  6. abraker seems to be a guy who incoherently tries to softpush certain people which actually are my townreads (Frostings, Hika), which of course means two things: he's either scum or I'm completely wrong at reading this game. I'm not convinced to his words though, especially considering he's been doing lots of posting that's not even necessary for the game to progress. I'd also like to note his inactivity on day 1 where his vote has already been placed on a town player and that haven't changed every since.
  7. beeboy. For some reason most people (myself included) assumed from the beginning of the game that beeboy is town. I've seen this happen way too many times (especially in the Hoenn Mafia) - a scum player posts nothing but accurate analysis at beginning of the day 1 and woo, he gets towncred for that. I have more reasons to believe he's scum than to believe he's town.
I've considered a No-Lynch for today, but that would mean just me getting NK-d, and that's literally no information for town. I believe the safest bet right here is Jess, even though I have a feeling that she's gonna townflip. That self-vote thing seems to be an AtE used by bad scum players, but I don't think she's even capable of doing that, considering all of her games... >_>"

I see the scumteam in {Jess, beeboy, {Frostings | abraker}}. Jess is put in this set for complete safety, to be honest.

Unvote
Vote: beeboy123

I'd like everyone to rethink the Jess lynch. I started to doubt it's necessary.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

rEdo wrote:

I see the scumteam in {Jess, beeboy, {Frostings | abraker}}. Jess is put in this set for complete safety, to be honest.
Let me corrent myself: {Jess, beeboy, {Hika | abraker}}. I just reminded myself of the fact that beeboy didn't even question Hika's counterclaim to me and voted me right off the bat.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

rEdo wrote:

. I'm not convinced to his words though, especially considering he's been doing lots of posting that's not even necessary for the game to progress. I'd also like to note his inactivity on day 1 where his vote has already been placed on a town player and that haven't changed every since.
Well now that I have this mafia topic open on my phone and computer and I am subbed to the topic, I can't really miss it. My activity mirrors that ofthe rest of OT. Though I started shitposts slightly more after Jess recent posts just because I got intoxicated by the stupidity (couldn't take it seriously). I just chose my vote at random on day 1 based on judgement on an avatar and remained on Dawn because his stupidity mislead everyone including me to vote for him. I already told everyone why I am voting on Frostings and even challenged someone to argue my vote which nobody did.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

abraker wrote:

Well now that I have this mafia topic open on my phone and computer and I am subbed to the topic, I can't really miss it. My activity mirrors that ofthe rest of OT. Though I started shitposts slightly more after Jess recent posts just because I got intoxicated by the stupidity (couldn't take it seriously). I just chose my vote at random on day 1 based on judgement on an avatar and remained on Dawn because his stupidity mislead everyone including me to vote for him. I already told everyone why I am voting on Frostings and even challenged someone to argue my vote which nobody did.
By OT you mean Off-Topic?

You have never explained why your vote on Dawnsday stayed on him, though. At least I can't read that from your ISO instead of that one post where you pointed his flaws concerning him not being a new player. But that was more of a direct attack rather the in-game one.

Your vote on Frostings was indeed sort of ignored by the other players, which is worrying, but Frostings himself pretty much answered your every doubt and you haven't properly replied to him ever since.

afk for ~4-6h ive got classes
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

rEdo wrote:

[*]Hika-Snip- That thing with her counter-claiming me as a VT seems to be a huge flaw in logic in townie's thinking. Hey, did you see that word? Yes, the one you're thinking of!
What do you think of my theory that she saw Mafia Goon on the vertical line and thought it'd counterclaim you? Makes more sense to me since there's no VT on either line.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika

beeboy123 wrote:

4.9 I'd be loopholing the prod system by abusing VLA.
This is why I can't pin point you both being scum because he would've probably said something against it. He meaning zexion.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

rEdo wrote:

By OT you mean Off-Topic?
yea

rEdo wrote:

You have never explained why your vote on Dawnsday stayed on him, though
I just did?

abraker wrote:

I just chose my vote at random on day 1 based on judgement on an avatar and remained on Dawn because his stupidity mislead everyone including me to vote for him.
Or are you referring to me saying anything back then and not now?

rEdo wrote:

but Frostings himself pretty much answered your every doubt and you haven't properly replied to him ever since.
Because I am not sure what to reply with. Even if he partially refuted my arguements, I have nothing of such sort for other players yet. My vote remains unless somebody shows correlations, coincidence or evidence between actions and mafia and demonstrates the other choice(s) correlate, coincide, or are evident of actions and townies.

I don't move unless a strong force makes me move
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Also Sakura, for my defense statement, or "defense" statement towards Jess.

I just thought it would be fair if she could play with all of us, however, her consistent "I'll post tomorrow" or self voting things don't generate anything but toxic and anti town moves for actual town if she IS town. Simply by asking everyone to shift their attention to others during the witch hunt on Jess helps us generate conversation for the other things that actually do matter. I'm sure we ALL, rather scum or town, would be okay with lynching her, simply because we have so much content and actually put effort in this game.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,356 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Also hold on. Either I forgot where Frostings refuted my vote or you are pulling my leg. I wouldn't be complaining that nobody is questioning my vote if at least one opposed it.

abraker wrote:

Frostings wrote:

People were questioning my vote and so I explained it after people already had votes on him for similar reasons that I had
I must have missed something. Who was questioning you?
I never got an answer to this iirc
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

beeboy123 wrote:

I said I wasn't a mason 16 posts into the game so I didn't really do what you were saying at all.
I mean I am pretty sure I said Dawnsday was town all of day 1 so I am not exactly sure what I fence sat on.
And all I have done this day phase was the vote counter claim and ask people questions. I don't see how voting a counter claim is scummy and I don't know why you are referring to bandwagons as a plural when I haven't voted anyone else.
Like literally nothing you said is true.
Fence sitting is the wrong word. However, a lot of the time scum usually like to have one on a bandwagon, one off it. And like rEdo mentions, they also like to get town cred from accurate analysis at the start, and they don't have any incentive to push a lynch rather than just makes themselves look like townies. You fit both these bills. And what have you done to make me think you're town? You've done pretty much nothing in the way of serious scumhunting, besides floating around and asking a few questions.

So a lot of people so far seem to be townreading beeboy, but I'd like some more explanation of this rather than just "good vibes".
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

abraker wrote:

My vote remains unless somebody shows correlations, coincidence or evidence between actions and mafia and demonstrates the other choice(s) correlate, coincide, or are evident of actions and townies.

I don't move unless a strong force makes me move
Umm

abraker wrote:

Beeboy reads as town for me. Idk why a scum would want to fake a role to be questioned throughout the game later. That will be a handicap from the start. Also dawn claimed the fake role and turned town, so I can believe Beeboy is town despite the fake claim.

I always fear that scum can be good at acting. I tend to ignore statements "scum wouldn't do x" or "x is not something scum would do" because of this.
This was kinda late.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
bboy + frosty
or bboy + Jess

are my corrected scumteam reads.

Just currently reading interactions thus far and hopefully soon, I can re-read thread!
I also have a doctor's appt around 4pm EST so pls bear with me guys! I think I have the flu ):
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Sakura wrote:

My current main question is "Does anyone have any reason to believe Jess is town?"
I already got your opinions on Hika.
Not really, and since my strongest townreads were the first ones to vote her that gives me a good feeling about a jess lynch. And I think that's the best we're gonna get at this point, town is really disjointed at the moment with everyone having different reads, I imagine it's a playground for the scum to sway the vote in any direction they please, if we wasn't voting jess.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
My TR on bee has been weakening as of late, but part of it is paranoia coz me and beeboy usually tend to not agree on townreads, and his latest reads list seems to mirror mine more or less.
(I had already mentioned TRs on him, b1rd and Frosty, and with the rEdo CC out of the way that would make rEdo town, leading to a PoE of Hika/Jess/abraker)
I was half expecting him to fight me on the Jess lynch and say Jess is town or something.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Hika wrote:

bboy + frosty
or bboy + Jess

are my corrected scumteam reads.

Just currently reading interactions thus far and hopefully soon, I can re-read thread!
I also have a doctor's appt around 4pm EST so pls bear with me guys! I think I have the flu ):
What happened with your SR on me?
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
I actually deduced it from your VLA.
you both can't go at the same time, zexion would've said smth about it.

But out of you and bboy, is suspect bboy is scummier than you.
It's just, I haven't seen very many interactions with you and frosty to make me believe that you both are townies.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Oh i msread corrected as "current".
I still would like to know what made you change your mind on me.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123

rEdo wrote:

rEdo wrote:

I see the scumteam in {Jess, beeboy, {Frostings | abraker}}. Jess is put in this set for complete safety, to be honest.
Let me corrent myself: {Jess, beeboy, {Hika | abraker}}. I just reminded myself of the fact that beeboy didn't even question Hika's counterclaim to me and voted me right off the bat.
Ok so as scum Hika would basically have no reason to commit to a counter claim on your bullet proof.
It isn't like you are a full bullet proof or a cop with a doctor still alive (literally anything that would be worth dying to get lynched) scum could literally just kill you N2 if you are a bullet proof and there is nothing anyone could do about it so I just made the assumption that Hika was the town in the situation in addition to the fact she sort of sorted some kind of PR.

Was I correct, no but to say I didn't question it when in my mind there was literally nothing to question is kinda silly.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
I ninja you silly willy
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Also sorry Sakura, I meant to say I suspect bboy* not is suspect bboy.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123

rEdo wrote:

[*]beeboy. For some reason most people (myself included) assumed from the beginning of the game that beeboy is town. I've seen this happen way too many times (especially in the Hoenn Mafia) - a scum player posts nothing but accurate analysis at beginning of the day 1 and woo, he gets towncred for that. I have more reasons to believe he's scum than to believe he's town.[/list]
.
I would argue my reads are more then just factual analysis but meh.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
vote: jess
anyway I said I would do this so ima do this.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Also Sakura, do you actually think Hika is scum? Because if you have a strong case, that's all well and good. But if you're just going to relentlessly pursue a small chance that she's scum when most others don't think so, I feel like that's just gonna break up the cohesion of town, especially when you're one of the most conftown at the moment and could take a strong leading role in scumhunting.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Jess on L-1 right?
I can hammer if everyone's ready to end the day in a few hours.
beeboy123
183 posts
Joined June 2013
beeboy123
Jess is on L-2 cause rEdo is voting me now.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
That's right. Jess unvoted herself too.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

Hika wrote:

Jess on L-1 right?
I can hammer if everyone's ready to end the day in a few hours.
I'm 90% sure Jess is gonna flip town due to her going emotional and voting herself. That's not what I've seen earlier, and I don't think she would do that.

I'll catch up (especially answer Sakura) in a few moments, sort of busy with uni work now.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
Frosty post something I know you're here
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

B1rd wrote:

Also Sakura, do you actually think Hika is scum? Because if you have a strong case, that's all well and good. But if you're just going to relentlessly pursue a small chance that she's scum when most others don't think so, I feel like that's just gonna break up the cohesion of town, especially when you're one of the most conftown at the moment and could take a strong leading role in scumhunting.
I did something like that back on Sunday.
But all people said is that her "townslip" made it impossible for her to be scum.
At the top of that post also showed a potential "scumslip" in the form of CCing as Mafia Goon.

I'm not 100% sure on her being scum, if anything it's more like... 50-60%, what i do know is that players always do something for a reason, whether the reason is subconcious or concious could heavily lead to alignment relevant information, which is why i still wonder "why did she CC as VT, when there wasn't a VT on either of the row or the column".
The same could be said about her constant rejecting of PRs using their abilities on her, and her false meta call that was later invalidated anyway before anyone investigated it in depth.
Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings
I'm fine with the Jess lynch, but I also do have a feeling she might flip town
I'm afraid though if we vote anyone else and we mislynch, we'll eventually be stuck in Lylo with Jess alive, and if she's town, scum can easily play the "Lynch Jess instead of me" card for the win
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