Wh1teh wrote:

[SHD]

01:12:945 - 01:18:087 - all of this is only 2hand jumps, hands etc. requires stupid amount of control. Otherwise in this kiai section you give a lot of 12 and 34 jumps for the player to "reset" control so to say, I think you should do that at least once in the highlighted area.

01:34:373 - http://puu.sh/sK06M/da12d9f44f.png I can't believe that this anchor is intentional.

03:06:945 - http://puu.sh/sK0qB/12ada9a002.png this looks really gay, it's maybe not that bad but it can be pretty awkward to play, also u have this going on with the other hand at the same time http://puu.sh/sK0tY/6658e542b8.png

Gekido- wrote:

Wh1teh wrote:

[SHD]

01:12:945 - 01:18:087 - all of this is only 2hand jumps, hands etc. requires stupid amount of control. Otherwise in this kiai section you give a lot of 12 and 34 jumps for the player to "reset" control so to say, I think you should do that at least once in the highlighted area.

01:34:373 - http://puu.sh/sK06M/da12d9f44f.png I can't believe that this anchor is intentional.

03:06:945 - http://puu.sh/sK0qB/12ada9a002.png this looks really gay, it's maybe not that bad but it can be pretty awkward to play, also u have this going on with the other hand at the same time http://puu.sh/sK0tY/6658e542b8.png

Didn't check to see if there were any inconsistencies in layering throughout the map, but the main problems I have with the SHD are the 2nd and 3rd points that Wh1teh brought up.

01:34:373 - You do state that the anchors are intentional, but I do not understand the meaning behind them. Personally I think that an anchor on the right hand like that isn't justified, but if you can provide reasoning for it, I can try to understand the meaning behind it. In my opinion, it would be best to divide the density up evenly between both hands. Something like this may work better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6787384
Otherwise, I'd suggest replacing the quads here with hands, and still evenly spreading out the density between both hands.

03:06:945 - I can understand from the music why this is the way you mapped it, but splitting up anchors between both hands is very cruel (feels like I am playing the difficult part in Sewing Machine). I think something like this would work better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6787332

I am pretty much fine with the rest of the map, I understand why most of it is mapped how it is. Good luck of getting this re-qualified, I enjoyed playing it.

Blocko wrote:

Seeing as there is discussion going on, I've disqualified this set for now.

Please keep discussion civilized and make sure all concerns on the beatmap are covered.



On a side note, difficulty names with + on them are not allowed because that kind of naming was scrapped years ago.

Why was it scrapped? Why isn't the -/+ diff naming not allowed despite not being in the rules, and somewhat making sense?

Basically it leads to confusion as to what a difficulty should be named. If the -/+ diff naming scheme is allowed in ranking, we're gonna have to draw a line as to what defines an Insane+ or Hard- or Normal+ whatever. That will take a lot of time to do and makes difficulty naming a lot more complicated than it should be.

Anyway, calling a difficulty MX+ just because it's slightly harder than MX but easier than SC wouldn't really make sense. Why not just call it MX?

Please decide on using either MX or SC, not MX+, SC- or anything in between.

Manwon wrote:

I have removed +.
LeiN-'S MX+ / LeiN'-S MX fix.

Reba wrote:

Manwon wrote:

I have removed +.
LeiN-'S MX+ / LeiN'-S MX fix.

만원님 안녕하세요. LeiN-'s MX 로 바꿀수가 없는게 이미 만원님의 MX 가 있기 때문에 동일한 난이도를 표현하는것으로 되어 디퀄요소가 됩니다.
예를들어 지금의 LeiN-'s MX를 LeiN-'s SC 로 하고 현재의 SC를 EX 같은 다른 난이도로 표기하시면 좋을거같습니다. 거꾸로 LeiN-'s EX 와 그냥 SC를 두셔두 좋구요.
수고하세용

Blocko wrote:

Seeing as there is discussion going on, I've disqualified this set for now.

Please keep discussion civilized and make sure all concerns on the beatmap are covered.



On a side note, difficulty names with + on them are not allowed because that kind of naming was scrapped years ago.

Why was it scrapped? Why isn't the -/+ diff naming not allowed despite not being in the rules, and somewhat making sense?

Basically it leads to confusion as to what a difficulty should be named. If the -/+ diff naming scheme is allowed in ranking, we're gonna have to draw a line as to what defines an Insane+ or Hard- or Normal+ whatever. That will take a lot of time to do and makes difficulty naming a lot more complicated than it should be.

Anyway, calling a difficulty MX+ just because it's slightly harder than MX but easier than SC wouldn't really make sense. Why not just call it MX?

Please decide on using either MX or SC, not MX+, SC- or anything in between.

Evening wrote:

SHD

01:33:087 (93087|0) - would suggest something like this to avoid that 12 2 12 1 12 2 12 anchor which is really awkward to play: http://puu.sh/sSdWq/5ed0a159e2.jpg

03:14:337 (194337|1,194337|0,194445|2,194552|0,194552|1) - suggesting this just to balance left and right: http://puu.sh/sSe28/4c659ea6f4.jpg


otherwise, others look fine to me, poke me when you check these suggestions

LastExceed wrote:

Such a great map! finally a hard map that isn't just [12] [34] spam. Too bad it won't get ranked... expect a DQ with "overdone" as reason in the next few minutes

LastExceed wrote:

bad it won't get ranked... expect a DQ with "overdone" as reason in the next few minutes.

Feerum wrote:

Greetings and grats on Qualify!

I'm here because i would like to discuss about the SHD difficulty before this get's moved into the Ranked section.

I think in my eye's the SHD difficulty is a little bit overdone. You have basically every noise mapped with a double to kinda "force" a even higher difficulty than the SC.
The SC difficulty is already on his limit or at least pretty close to it.
I don't want to say that you have to delete the difficulty because that would be also the wrong way, i just think you could delete few notes to let the difficulty make somehow sense, letting it follow more than just the hihat with the doubles.

Let me give you a few examples:

Let me start for this from here 00:41:230 - . This is the first part where you start using only doubles and hands.
00:41:337 (41337|0) - , 00:42:195 (42195|3) - , 00:42:623 (42623|2) - , 00:43:052 (43052|0) - , 00:43:909 (43909|3) - , 00:44:337 (44337|3) - , 00:44:766 (44766|3) - , 00:45:623 (45623|0) - , 00:46:052 (46052|2) - , 00:47:337 (47337|1) - , 00:47:766 (47766|0) - , 00:48:195 (48195|0) - and so on!
With this you would follow with your jumps the melody without destroying your pattern too much. You can even keep the single note jacked to the previous hand (to keep consistency with your jack pattern here)

As next let me jump to the first Kiai section. here you could do something similar just with deleting less notes, basically where you have only a hihat keep it with single note.
01:08:766 (68766|3) - , 01:09:623 (69623|1) - , 01:10:480 (70480|2) - (to avoid the triple jack), 01:11:337 (71337|0) - , 01:12:195 (72195|2) - , 01:13:052 (73052|0) - , 01:13:909 (73909|2) - , 01:14:766 (74766|2) - (because i think jack on 4, following with jack on 3 can be pretty ass), 01:15:623 (75623|3) - and so on.
Let the doubles follow the melody, not just everything with doubles (even hi-hat's which are not that strong that they need a double to emphasize it)

- Ok.
The part you mentioned has been edited with a single note.
If you misunderstand me, please suggest an image.


Now a little bit mod for the calm part (which is actually my favorite part here haha):

01:46:802 - You have here a note missing. You have it in SC and it's the same noise like 01:45:945 - .
01:47:445 - Same thing here.
01:50:659 - here too.

- fix

02:02:873 - What is with here? You have mapped in in SC but not in SHD? - I hear a subtle sound. SC is not my pattern. Just modified.
02:06:087 (126087|3) - About this note. The SHD is the only difficulty where this note exist. There is a noise and can be mapped. I would suggest you to add it to the other difficulty's (at least SC/MX) - fix

02:08:659 (128659|1) - This note is a bit weird. The noise here isn't clearly audible. I would suggest you to delete this note. NM and LeiN's MX doesn't have it too. - fix

02:41:230 - The suggestion from the first kiai apply's here too.

I modified it the same way as the first kiai.
If you misunderstand
Please attach an image and tell us exactly what you want to fix. please.


02:51:302 (171302|1,171302|2,171302|0) - This hand here is wrong placed. You doesn't have a kick sound, either the melody you mapped with your quads. Removing one note solves the problem. - I heard a subdued sound. However, it was corrected.

03:20:016 (200016|0,200016|3,200016|2,200445|1,200445|0,200445|3) - Can i ask why you did add here hands? There is nothing different than all the time. Would suggest keeping it doubles. - fix
Why you added hands from 03:16:373 - could be justified for the extra vocals. Not very audible but i would say it's okay because it's clearly something different. / According to the sound of the vocal sound.
It has been modified.

03:36:087 - From here a similar suggestion like i made in the first part would apply pretty good, even when it's a bit more /
00: 06: 970 - I have not changed this part the same.
It is because of intention. I think if I was the same, I could get bored with it.

04:05:043 (245043|0) - To all these notes you placed on a 1/16 beat. I am 99% sure they should be 1/12 snap. Using 1/16 is slightly too early. When i go to 04:05:052 - and let the music start with 25% playback rate i can clearly hear that the sound begins here.
This apply's for all notes you placed on a 1/16 beat. - fix

04:16:587 - Missing kick hitsound in all difficulty's - fix

That's all. Like i said and other said it already too before the first disqualify. I think the SHD is slightly overdone. It's not that much as i first thought but i highly suggest you to delete these notes and let it follow more than just the hi-hat's. Also few missing notes and the snapping.

With these suggestion you would still have an difficulty which is harder than the SC and doesn't seems randomly mapped with doubles because that's what i thought when i saw the difficulty first.

I am curious what you think about my concern, please let me know!
Waiting for your reply!


..
If you have a problem, please speed up your feedback. please.

LastExceed wrote:

bad it won't get ranked... expect a DQ with "overdone" as reason in the next few minutes.

Dear LastExceed. It's interesting to see after our discussion in discord that you think i would directly disqualify this beatmap. This is not how it work. Here is a link to my QAT-Blog post so that you can see and read again how this everything even works.
http://osuqat.tumblr.com/post/152196956 ... d-beatmaps

Also, there's no need to move our "discussion" now here (:

Feerum wrote:

Greetings and grats on Qualify!

I'm here because i would like to discuss about the SHD difficulty before this get's moved into the Ranked section.

I think in my eye's the SHD difficulty is a little bit overdone. You have basically every noise mapped with a double to kinda "force" a even higher difficulty than the SC.
The SC difficulty is already on his limit or at least pretty close to it.
I don't want to say that you have to delete the difficulty because that would be also the wrong way, i just think you could delete few notes to let the difficulty make somehow sense, letting it follow more than just the hihat with the doubles.

Let me give you a few examples:

Let me start for this from here 00:41:230 - . This is the first part where you start using only doubles and hands.
00:41:337 (41337|0) - , 00:42:195 (42195|3) - , 00:42:623 (42623|2) - , 00:43:052 (43052|0) - , 00:43:909 (43909|3) - , 00:44:337 (44337|3) - , 00:44:766 (44766|3) - , 00:45:623 (45623|0) - , 00:46:052 (46052|2) - , 00:47:337 (47337|1) - , 00:47:766 (47766|0) - , 00:48:195 (48195|0) - and so on!
With this you would follow with your jumps the melody without destroying your pattern too much. You can even keep the single note jacked to the previous hand (to keep consistency with your jack pattern here)

As next let me jump to the first Kiai section. here you could do something similar just with deleting less notes, basically where you have only a hihat keep it with single note.
01:08:766 (68766|3) - , 01:09:623 (69623|1) - , 01:10:480 (70480|2) - (to avoid the triple jack), 01:11:337 (71337|0) - , 01:12:195 (72195|2) - , 01:13:052 (73052|0) - , 01:13:909 (73909|2) - , 01:14:766 (74766|2) - (because i think jack on 4, following with jack on 3 can be pretty ass), 01:15:623 (75623|3) - and so on.
Let the doubles follow the melody, not just everything with doubles (even hi-hat's which are not that strong that they need a double to emphasize it)

Now a little bit mod for the calm part (which is actually my favorite part here haha):

01:46:802 - You have here a note missing. You have it in SC and it's the same noise like 01:45:945 - .
01:47:445 - Same thing here.
01:50:659 - here too.

02:02:873 - What is with here? You have mapped in in SC but not in SHD?
02:06:087 (126087|3) - About this note. The SHD is the only difficulty where this note exist. There is a noise and can be mapped. I would suggest you to add it to the other difficulty's (at least SC/MX)

02:08:659 (128659|1) - This note is a bit weird. The noise here isn't clearly audible. I would suggest you to delete this note. NM and LeiN's MX doesn't have it too.

02:41:230 - The suggestion from the first kiai apply's here too.

02:51:302 (171302|1,171302|2,171302|0) - This hand here is wrong placed. You doesn't have a kick sound, either the melody you mapped with your quads. Removing one note solves the problem.

03:20:016 (200016|0,200016|3,200016|2,200445|1,200445|0,200445|3) - Can i ask why you did add here hands? There is nothing different than all the time. Would suggest keeping it doubles.
Why you added hands from 03:16:373 - could be justified for the extra vocals. Not very audible but i would say it's okay because it's clearly something different.

03:36:087 - From here a similar suggestion like i made in the first part would apply pretty good, even when it's a bit more

04:05:043 (245043|0) - To all these notes you placed on a 1/16 beat. I am 99% sure they should be 1/12 snap. Using 1/16 is slightly too early. When i go to 04:05:052 - and let the music start with 25% playback rate i can clearly hear that the sound begins here.
This apply's for all notes you placed on a 1/16 beat.

04:16:587 - Missing kick hitsound in all difficulty's

That's all. Like i said and other said it already too before the first disqualify. I think the SHD is slightly overdone. It's not that much as i first thought but i highly suggest you to delete these notes and let it follow more than just the hi-hat's. Also few missing notes and the snapping.

With these suggestion you would still have an difficulty which is harder than the SC and doesn't seems randomly mapped with doubles because that's what i thought when i saw the difficulty first.

I am curious what you think about my concern, please let me know!
Waiting for your reply!

LastExceed wrote:

bad it won't get ranked... expect a DQ with "overdone" as reason in the next few minutes.

Dear LastExceed. It's interesting to see after our discussion in discord that you think i would directly disqualify this beatmap. This is not how it work. Here is a link to my QAT-Blog post so that you can see and read again how this everything even works.
http://osuqat.tumblr.com/post/152196956 ... d-beatmaps

Also, there's no need to move our "discussion" now here (:

Evening wrote:

Well, since everyone is arguing about how this is technically mapped over it's limit, how would you define this particular "limit" in this case then?

riktoi wrote:

Since this was disqualified again, wouldn't it be better to just rename Ex to SC? Considering a difficulty name as Ex(treme) would suggest something way harder than SHD(Super Hard if i got that right). This is how I see it, you don't have to change it but think about it for some time.

SanadaYukimura wrote:

A map suppose to use different amount of notes in different section to show the different intensity of the music, yes all the note which placed on 1/4 aren't ghost note, but using double for every sound you heard is just so wrong. Like I mention above about the intensity, try to think if someone map "Dango Daikazoku" and spam triple pattern through the map, that's what we call awkward. Instead of using double for all the 1/4 kick sound, I want you to reconsider and revaluate different sound/instruments you heard in this song and by using different amount of notes/pattern to show that difference.
Beside that, most of the jacks pattern in map doesn't make any sense to me tbh. All I can think of is that you want to increase the difficulty of this map. Every song have a limit, even its a low BPM song, it doesn't give you the right to use such "undefined jacks" through the map. Of course prove me wrong if you can explain every single jack you use in this map. My understanding about jacks is to use them only if the sounds are the same pitch or there are some catchy/main sounds which I want to emphasize them. It would be nice if you can share your understanding about the usage of jacks.
Good luck.

Feerum wrote:

04:05:043 (245043|0) - To all these notes you placed on a 1/16 beat. I am 99% sure they should be 1/12 snap. Using 1/16 is slightly too early. When i go to 04:05:052 - and let the music start with 25% playback rate i can clearly hear that the sound begins here.
This apply's for all notes you placed on a 1/16 beat.

Feerum wrote:

Yo o/

I actually talked with Manwon at christmas but i had to cut of the talk because, yeah simply because it was christmas

Alright so like i already said him i'm still not really satisfied about the changes. The main points, the kiai, got basically ignored without a proper answer why.
I don't want to destroy your difficulty or something but i really think the Kiai Times are a bit overdone and somehow we need to find an agreement here or the mapset never get's moved forward.

So, since you didn't like my suggestion let me make another one and i would be really happy when someone who can speak korean could explain it to him what i mean or translate because in our IRC talk i kinda saw that he has little problems to understand english or at least to reply in english.
Don't want to let this get graved or something.

Alright so. My other suggestion would be that we make a little build-up. Instead just to delete all marked notes i said in my last mod you can keep the last kiai how it is. The music get's more exciting and strong from 02:41:230 - to 03:32:659 - so i can agree with leaving it how it is. This represents the song "okay" so there is no really need to change it.

From 00:06:945 - i would really like to see you follow my suggestion. The Music isn't that exciting/exhausting (i can't find the right word ?_?) or strong like in the kiai so "hi-hat only" should be really keep'd as single note.

For this Kiai here 01:08:659 - i also stay behind my suggestion how i made it. I simply don't see why you should keep here straight jumps through the whole part. I mean like 01:09:623 - is actually even a ghost note. There isn't even a hihat in the melody. Nothing. And when it's so quiet you can't even hear it. 01:12:195 - same like here but i think it would destroy the complete flow of the kiai and with it the beatmap and this is what i don't want. That's why i suggest you single notes at least for only hihat sounds.

Hope someone can translate it to him. I can even help you with getting it back to ranked but we really need to find somehow an agreement here :/

LastExceed wrote:

is it just me or is the download broken? no matter if i use normal download or osu!direct, i get a broken mapset

Feerum wrote:

Yo o/

I actually talked with Manwon at christmas but i had to cut of the talk because, yeah simply because it was christmas

Alright so like i already said him i'm still not really satisfied about the changes. The main points, the kiai, got basically ignored without a proper answer why.
I don't want to destroy your difficulty or something but i really think the Kiai Times are a bit overdone and somehow we need to find an agreement here or the mapset never get's moved forward.

So, since you didn't like my suggestion let me make another one and i would be really happy when someone who can speak korean could explain it to him what i mean or translate because in our IRC talk i kinda saw that he has little problems to understand english or at least to reply in english.
Don't want to let this get graved or something.

Alright so. My other suggestion would be that we make a little build-up. Instead just to delete all marked notes i said in my last mod you can keep the last kiai how it is. The music get's more exciting and strong from 02:41:230 - to 03:32:659 - so i can agree with leaving it how it is. This represents the song "okay" so there is no really need to change it.

From 00:06:945 - i would really like to see you follow my suggestion. The Music isn't that exciting/exhausting (i can't find the right word ?_?) or strong like in the kiai so "hi-hat only" should be really keep'd as single note.

For this Kiai here 01:08:659 - i also stay behind my suggestion how i made it. I simply don't see why you should keep here straight jumps through the whole part. I mean like 01:09:623 - is actually even a ghost note. There isn't even a hihat in the melody. Nothing. And when it's so quiet you can't even hear it. 01:12:195 - same like here but i think it would destroy the complete flow of the kiai and with it the beatmap and this is what i don't want. That's why i suggest you single notes at least for only hihat sounds.

Hope someone can translate it to him. I can even help you with getting it back to ranked but we really need to find somehow an agreement here :/

Evening wrote:

seems like the single note "hat" thing is fixed

Fresh Chicken, gentle reminder to qualify 24 hours **after** this

10:36 AM UTC +0

Fresh Chicken wrote:

Evening wrote:

seems like the single note "hat" thing is fixed

Fresh Chicken, gentle reminder to qualify 24 hours **after** this

10:36 AM UTC +0

Thanks Gentleman Evening.

Qualified on 10:36 AM UTC +0!