21:01 Shiirn: k him
21:01 Shiirn: hi
21:01 Mir: hiiii
21:01 Shiirn: 00:20:211 (5) - stack this on 00:21:334 (4) - 's end
21:01 Shiirn: 00:20:415 (6) - and 00:21:538 (5) - can both blanket that point and be on the same "track"
21:01 Shiirn: 00:22:048 (7) - needs to blanket 00:21:538 (5) - better
21:02 Mir: wait second one
21:02 Mir: I don't get what you mean by "on the same track"
21:02 Shiirn: if they both blanket that point at the same distance
21:03 Shiirn: they'll basically be the same slider except one is longer
21:03 Mir: ohh
21:03 Mir: isn't that already how it is
21:03 Shiirn: no
21:03 Shiirn: they're not clean
21:04 Shiirn: they're somewhat close but they're not anywhere near actually exact
21:04 Mir: alright well
21:04 Mir: i think i did it
21:04 Mir: fixed that last blanket too
21:05 Shiirn: 01:10:823 (4) - move this a bit down and to the right, by like ~15 pixels
21:05 Shiirn: just so it's further away from01:10:211 (2) -
21:05 Shiirn: 01:10:619 (3,6) - same here just make sure they don't touch eachother
21:05 Mir: done
21:05 Shiirn: so u gotta move 6
21:05 Mir: yeah done
21:05 Shiirn: but moving 3 can work too
21:05 Shiirn: since
21:05 Shiirn: 01:11:027 (5) - isn't under 2's end
21:05 Shiirn: either stack 5 udner the end or unstack 3 to be consistent
21:05 Mir: stacked 5
21:06 Shiirn: k
21:06 Mir: 01:12:048 (3,1) - fixed stack too
21:06 Shiirn: aye
21:09 Mir: the main issue of the set atm
21:09 Mir: is advanced
21:09 Mir: LOL
21:09 Mir: yuii said too much slider-leniency-dependant flow
21:14 Shiirn: 01:41:231 (3,4,5) - you don't really need to have 5 oint at
21:15 Shiirn: sec afk
21:15 Shiirn: <5min
21:15 Mir: alright
21:16 Shiirn: k
21:16 Mir: wbg
21:16 Mir: wb*
21:16 Shiirn: you dont need to have 5 point at 6,7,1
21:16 Shiirn: just for flow
21:17 Shiirn: atm it looks weird with 3,4 going down
21:17 Mir: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
21:17 Mir: i can already sense
21:17 Mir: the anal modders
21:17 Mir: saying ctrl+g 5
21:17 Shiirn: well
21:17 Shiirn: you can always do something like
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/661856221:17 Shiirn: also fuck those modders
21:18 Shiirn: 01:47:354 (1) - intentionally 1/8?
21:18 Shiirn: 01:46:129 (1) - ^
21:18 Mir: nope
21:18 Mir: fixed
21:19 Shiirn: k let's look at advanced
21:19 Mir: i already
21:19 Mir: change
21:19 Mir: stuff wasdfasdg
21:19 Mir: should I revert?
21:19 Mir: cuz I still can
21:19 Shiirn: maybe?
21:19 Shiirn: idk what the problems were
21:19 Mir: slider-leniency-dependant flow
21:19 Shiirn: 00:08:885 (3) - i like these
21:20 Shiirn: tho
21:20 Shiirn: uhhh
21:20 Shiirn: that's buzzwors
21:20 Shiirn: leniency?
21:20 Shiirn: lol
21:20 Mir: like
21:20 Mir: you know
21:20 Mir: YOU KNOW
21:20 Shiirn: i know what slider leniency is
21:20 Mir: yeah like
21:20 Shiirn: i don't fucking know what it has to do with advanced level diffs
21:20 Mir: too much flow depends on
21:20 Mir: abusing slider leniency
21:20 Shiirn: sounds like a crock of shit
21:21 Shiirn: revert and let me see
21:21 Shiirn: keep ur current just in case
21:21 Mir: righto
21:21 Mir: reverted
21:21 Shiirn: gotta update
21:21 Shiirn: or give me the .osu
21:21 Mir: 00:10:517 (6,1) - fixed blanket
21:21 Mir: LOL
21:21 Mir: ok
21:22 Mir: updated
21:22 Mir: 00:18:987 (4,5,6) - eg this
21:22 Mir: probably
21:24 Shiirn: 00:18:987 (4,5,6) - i see no problem with this
21:25 Mir: yuii's reasoning was
21:25 Shiirn: 00:27:354 (1,2,3) - what did u replace these with?
21:25 Mir: "players at this level don't know about slider leniency"
21:25 Shiirn: bullshit
21:25 Mir: also i replaced nothing
21:25 Mir: just made the curve of 3 less sharp
21:25 Shiirn: not knowing about slider leniency does nothing
21:25 Shiirn: like
21:25 Shiirn: he's talking about the whole slider ball track thing and for distance after a sldier ends thing right
21:26 Shiirn: not actual OD leniency
21:26 Shiirn: like
21:26 Mir: yeah
21:26 Shiirn: slider leniency = the fact that sliders can't get 100 or 50s and thus are OD0, abusing that to make weird snaps play right
21:26 Mir: like the "you can move out of the actual slider as long as you're in the follow circle" thing
21:26 Mir: not od leniency
21:26 Shiirn: sliderBALL leniency = the fact that slider follow circles are huge and allow for a lot more movement
21:26 Mir: yeah sliderBALL leniency ;w; sorry
21:26 Shiirn: nah its yuii too
21:27 Shiirn: i'm not seeing any places
21:27 Shiirn: where u have excessive spacing after a slider
21:27 Mir: i don't, it's all snapped
21:27 Mir: i think what he meant was
21:27 Shiirn: then what is the problem
21:27 Mir: moving from note to note
21:27 Mir: in some places
21:27 Mir: for a new player, could be weird
21:27 Shiirn: 00:27:966 (2,3,4) - was his problem that
21:28 Shiirn: there's no real "flow" from the backkick of 3 into 4?
21:28 Shiirn: because that's fucking stupid
21:28 Mir: no his problem was
21:28 Mir: the actual visual curve of 3 is so similar to 4
21:28 Mir: it might be hard to play
21:28 Mir: lol
21:28 Mir: so i made it less sharp
21:28 Shiirn: that actualyl makes sense, if players were fucking stupid
21:28 Mir: ._.
21:28 Shiirn: which they are so let's coddle them
21:29 Shiirn: why not make 3 a linear rather than curve
21:29 Mir: I don't see why not
21:29 Shiirn: just ctrl+click that grey node
21:29 Shiirn: bam
21:29 Shiirn: independently different
21:29 Mir: lol
21:29 Mir: well that's that fixed
21:30 Shiirn: i think that worry
21:30 Shiirn: is really fucking dumb
21:30 Shiirn: tbh
21:30 Shiirn: the #1 thing i hate about editor armchairs is how they profess to understanding how people can get confused/fucked up
21:30 Shiirn: just because things aren't perfectly clear from an editor standpoint
21:31 Shiirn: 00:51:844 (4) - what was yuii's problem with this?
21:31 Mir: the flow resulting from said slider
21:31 Mir: went from there to top right
21:31 Mir: which he felt was bad flow
21:32 Shiirn: ...
21:32 Shiirn: so?
21:32 Shiirn: what the fuck it's fine
21:32 Mir: same
21:32 Mir: i thought "it makes no difference i might as well change it to appease him"
21:32 Shiirn: 00:50:211 (1,2,3) - cascades clockwise down
21:32 Shiirn: 00:51:844 (4,5,6,7,1) - goes counterclockwise back up
21:32 Shiirn: and it swaps off at the same time the music swivels back
21:32 Mir: yeah
21:32 Shiirn: yeah
21:32 Shiirn: "problem" my ass
21:34 Mir: well
21:34 Shiirn: 01:54:293 (2,4) - ew they're touching
21:34 Mir: I can reply to that
21:34 Mir: fixifixfixifxifixfixfixif
21:34 Shiirn: put it on the same track as 01:56:334 (6) -
21:35 Shiirn: move 01:53:885 (1) - to be evenly spaced after that aye
21:36 Mir: changed the whole flow in that section
21:36 Mir: wasn't a fan of it to begin with
21:36 Shiirn: uh ok
21:36 Mir: yuii's change
21:36 Mir: LOL
21:36 Shiirn: well
21:36 Shiirn: if yuii was annoyed at the lower diffs
21:36 Shiirn: did u mention i focused mainly on the top diff until later
21:37 Mir: nope
21:37 Mir: i didn't mention anything about papayapa as a whole
21:37 Mir: i just said "shiirn is busy irl so we're not doing much atm"
21:37 Mir: "no big deal"
21:37 Shiirn: lol
21:37 Mir: am i wrong? ;-;
21:37 Shiirn: well it's also because the atmosphere in this game
21:37 Shiirn: is so fucking dead atm
21:38 Shiirn: well i could certainly spend more time going over things with you but
21:38 Shiirn: let me be clear here
21:38 Mir: your motivation is dipping
21:38 Mir: it seems
21:38 Shiirn: part of what i intend to teach you as a mapper
21:38 Shiirn: isn't purely "how to map"
21:38 Shiirn: i'm here to help guide you as a mapper
21:38 Shiirn: not tell you how to map
21:38 Shiirn: and as a mapper
21:38 Shiirn: you are going to face the ranking system
21:38 Shiirn: and the community
21:39 Shiirn: and part of learning about those things
21:39 Shiirn: includes learning how to manage disagreements over concepts that are basically up to opinion
21:39 Mir: Hmm
21:39 Shiirn: and when you're a new mapper
21:39 Shiirn: and spam new mappers to mod your map
21:39 Shiirn: and, to an extent
21:39 Shiirn: some BNs
21:39 Shiirn: you get
21:39 Shiirn: a bazillion different opinions and suggestions
21:40 Shiirn: because your style is not concrete, and everyone has a suggestion to "make the map better"
21:40 Shiirn: part of learning as a mapper is to recognize what changes ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE MAP
21:40 Shiirn: and what changes are just the modder injecting THEIR values or feelings into the map
21:40 Shiirn: this is why i've avoided telling you how to map certain sections, because then it'd be ME mapping it, not you
21:41 Shiirn: i've focused on keeping you consistent within your own intentions
21:41 Shiirn: you wanted to follow the vocals, but had the clicks in the wrong place to do that
21:41 Shiirn: so i pointed out how to fix that
21:41 Mir: mhm
21:41 Shiirn: yuii's suggestions are the prime of
21:42 Shiirn: "his opinions"
21:42 Shiirn: when you see things like
21:42 Shiirn: "you should know how to fix this" etc etc
21:42 Shiirn: they're just filling the air with bullshit
21:42 Mir: fair enough
21:42 Mir: so I can keep most of what i have here then?
21:42 Shiirn: generally speaking
21:43 Shiirn: for every mod you get
21:43 Shiirn: ask yourself three questions on EVERY point they make
21:43 Shiirn: A) Is this suggestion a clear-cut fix? e.g. new combo, blanket fix, missnap, etc. If so, and you agree with it, fix it. If you don't agree, don't fix it. If it's not clear, go to B.
21:44 Shiirn: B) Is this suggestion telling you how THEY would map the section, or is it enhancing how YOU would map it? Generally speaking, you want to avoid being TOLD how to do a section, unless you try it and REALLY REALLY like it, in which case do it by all means
21:45 Shiirn: but don't change things just to satisfy other people even if you don't really care either way
21:45 Mir: ^ roger that (iswhativebeendoingasdasd)
21:45 Shiirn: C) are they justifying themselves? Look at yuii's post. On one line, he says "This is hard to read because the visuals are bad", then a few lines later "Patterns like this one are very, very hard to read due to how"
21:45 Shiirn: Notice how in the second one HE SAYS GOD DAMN WHY
21:45 Mir: yeah
21:46 Shiirn: so it's very easy to see whether you agree with him or not
21:46 Shiirn: the first one is just ~his opinion~ and is much more nuanced and harder to respond to, in which case you ask for clarification or justify your current choice
21:46 Shiirn: like the second one was probably a good one
21:46 Shiirn: the first was probably just a big irritation
21:47 Mir: Hmm
21:47 Mir: but how do I distinguish between "opinion" and "suggestion"
21:47 Mir: like
21:47 Mir: "i would do this"
21:47 Mir: and "i suggest this"
21:48 Shiirn: simple enough, usually
21:48 Shiirn: if the suggestion significantly changes how that pattern/combo/etc plays
21:48 Shiirn: it's them trying to rework the pattern into something THEY like
21:48 Shiirn: if it changes things more subtly, e.g. just changes how the cursor moves a bit, or makes the pattern neater
21:48 Shiirn: it's uusally helping your own style form
21:49 Mir: Hmm okay
21:49 Shiirn: "There are 11 seconds that were mapped in only one side of the screen. That is not the best idea because it makes a whole section rather tedious to play since everything is mapped on a small part of the playing field."
21:49 Shiirn: i hate this
21:49 Shiirn: i swear to god
21:49 Shiirn: im gonna make a map
21:49 Shiirn: where the entire map
21:49 Mir: monstrata
21:49 Shiirn: is on one side of the screen
21:49 Mir: already did
21:50 Shiirn: well fuck
21:50 Mir: he mapped exclusively on one side for some part
21:50 Mir: then on the other
21:50 Mir: and at the end used both
21:50 Shiirn: [hard] 01:05:313 (2,3) - what r u donig
21:50 Mir: WTF
21:50 Mir: IS TAHT
21:51 Mir: fixed
21:51 Mir: hoyl
21:51 Shiirn: 01:22:864 (1,2) - make 1 angle further out left or parallel to 2
21:51 Mir: parallel it is
21:52 Shiirn: 01:24:497 (1) - curves are actually important here, to be consistent with how you map this part of the pattern
21:52 Shiirn: 01:27:762 (1) - ^
21:52 Mir: so use cruves
21:52 Mir: curves*
21:52 Shiirn: 01:44:905 (3,4,5,6,1) - cunts will complain that this isn't a perfect pentagon so use the geometry tool
21:52 Shiirn: yeah
21:53 Shiirn: 01:52:660 (2,4) - stacking
21:53 Mir: fixed
21:53 Mir: so nothing about spacing of patterns here?
21:54 Mir: cuz yuii complained about that too
21:55 Shiirn: they're fine
21:55 Shiirn: the increased spacing is in good spots
21:55 Shiirn: you fixed most of the weirdo overlaps
21:55 Mir: yeshyesh
21:56 Shiirn: there u go'
21:56 Mir: what about insane
21:56 Mir: or you wanna stop there
21:57 Shiirn: let's glance at it
22:04 Shiirn: sorry got distracted
22:04 Shiirn: by drama in mentorship
22:04 Shiirn: LOL
22:04 Mir: LOL
22:05 Shiirn: 00:04:497 (1,2) - should use 3/4 slider and 1/4 slider like u did everywhere else no?
22:06 Mir: hm
22:06 Mir: yeah
22:06 Mir: done
22:07 Mir: 00:26:129 (1,1) - fixed blanket -cries-
22:07 Shiirn: \o
22:07 Shiirn: i dint even notice
22:08 Mir:
22:09 Shiirn: 00:24:089 (1) - ctrl+g? multiple reasons: 1: helps seperate 1 and 2 so it doesnt seem like there's 1/4 space between them instead of 1/2, 2: makes 1 and 2 face the same direction for the similar noise
22:09 Mir: i don't see why not, makes sense, was also wondering about that spacing
22:10 Shiirn: 00:25:109 (5) - move this between 1 and 2 instead of under 1
22:10 Shiirn: dont worry about the angle
22:10 Shiirn: its fine
22:10 Shiirn: 00:25:313 (6) - move a bit to the right to avoid touching 4
22:10 Mir: wha
22:10 Mir: that angle tho
22:10 Mir: but okay
22:10 Mir: i like how it gets wider as the intensity goes up anyways
22:11 Shiirn: works too
22:11 Mir: asdasd brb
22:11 Shiirn: 00:27:762 (2) - ctrl+g for the same reason as before? 2,3,4 looks like 1/4 spacing
22:11 Shiirn: ok
22:16 Mir: back sorry ;w;
22:16 Shiirn: hi
22:16 Mir: i did that but
22:16 Mir: ohnvm
22:16 Mir: yep done~
22:20 Shiirn: 00:41:334 (3,4) - too far away
22:21 Mir: blanketed that with 2
22:21 Mir: 00:41:844 (5) - opinions on kickslider here?
22:21 Mir: instead of a circle
22:24 Shiirn: should have one
22:25 Mir: added
22:33 Shiirn: 01:07:150 (2,4) - u really gotta work on
22:33 Shiirn: not overlapping
22:33 Mir: i swear
22:33 Mir: it's not
22:33 Mir: intentional
22:33 Shiirn: 01:21:946 (4,1) -
22:33 Shiirn: e_E
22:34 Mir: eheh...
22:34 Mir: ... fixed..
22:34 Mir: 01:26:742 (3,7) - fixed
22:34 Mir: 01:31:640 (3,6) - fixed
22:35 Shiirn: ok
22:35 Mir: 01:37:966 (2,6) - fixed
22:36 Mir: 01:56:129 (4) - what do you think about removing this entirely
22:36 Shiirn: should be fine
22:36 Shiirn: good, even
22:36 Mir: spacing tho
22:36 Mir: would it still be okay?
22:37 Shiirn: its fine
22:37 Mir: okay
22:37 Mir: alright if you want
22:37 Mir: post log
22:37 Shiirn: nah
22:38 Shiirn: i dont need kd
22:38 Mir: okay~
22:42 Mir: imma save and post
22:42 Mir: anyways
22:42 Mir: so it's there
22:42 Shiirn: lol ok