does not seem accurate, it has nothing to do with snapping imo, but about whether the distance been recognized as a jump and have a followpoint on it if it is not a NC jump
Jumps should be used to highlight certain sounds in the music. Because playing a jump pattern puts more pressure on the player, they naturally fit better for highlighting certain sounds.Then what about altering this to "Jumps and antijumps ..." ?
We'll look into that. It is supposed to be a guideline, mainly because of the slider border / hitcircleoverlay and dark hues part.appleeaterx wrote:
my 2cDo not use solid black combo colors, slider border color or hitcircleoverlay. Solid black is impossible to see with 100% background dim. Dark hues (below ~50 luminosity) should be avoided for asier approach circle readability on low background dim.Using "Do not use" more or less indicates something as a rule rather than a guideline. This confused me a bit, allowed in some cases or not? Personally, I prefer it being a rule, but I doubt anyone would really do this nowadays.
It is supposed to be a guideline. It shouldn't be done for a whole map probably, but for some objects (like long sliders on very calm songs) it might be fine to do so, for example on this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/148404 on the highest difficulty.Avoid silencing both slider ticks and slider slides together. Low volume or blending sound samples are similarly discouraged when inaudible. If a slider tick does not snap to a distinct sound, it can be inaudible.Just clarifying, this is now a guideline instead of a rule if I understand correctly? Always thought myself that no feedback on sliders at all kind of destroys the purpose of a slider, but it seems some mappers really prefer to have both silences in some cases.
Kicksliders have been intentionally left out because of the confusion they create. We defined 'short repeated sliders' and 'buzz sliders' and these will be used for the whole Ranking Criteria consistently.maybe also define what a kickslider is, as there was some confusion previously what it actually is due to confliting terms of wiki / community view lolol
Good to see that things are being done now, finally.
Will look into it.Shad0w1and wrote:
does not seem accurate, it has nothing to do with snapping imo, but about whether the distance been recognized as a jump and have a followpoint on it if it is not a NC jump
Will look into it.Endaris wrote:
Then what about altering this to "Jumps and antijumps ..." ?
I don't see how antijumps are inherently different in "hightlighting certain sounds".
Or differently said, I can't quite grasp why you would include a guideline for the usage of the gameplayelement "jump" when you wouldn't include a guideline for the gameplayelement "antijump".
This is osu!standard criteria. But without the difficulty-specific things, that's why 'General'. Probably should clarify this in the thread title.Nerova Riuz GX wrote:
I assume this is just a part of the general rc? or these rules are all of them? cuz things like videos, hitsounds, and metadatas are not mentioned here.
Also, comparing to the old rc, shouldn't the "No two hitobjects on the same tick" rules be in content? or they will be moved to mode specific criteria because of osu mania?
it seems weird to have far less informations than the old rc tbh.
What about the use of NCs for regaining HP? This can be really useful to be done in a rythmical way.Desperate-kun wrote:
Ensure that your combos are not unreasonably short or long. Combos should reflect patterns expressed in the song, such as bars of music or vocal/instrumental phrases.
Important parts of the song should always be properly represented in each difficulty. Skipping over important parts of the song can lead to random moments of idling where the player feels like they should be playing something, which may make the map uncomfortable or boring to play.Just my 2c
This is just an exception to a rule, it seems weird to include this in Guidelines imo. Everything else is saying "avoid x" but this is saying "don't avoid x". It'd be better to move this to Rules, or even a separate section titled something like "Exceptions to Global Ruleset". Also add sliderticks into the list :vRC wrote:
The end of a spinner (or even the entire spinner), the sliding sound of a slider, and the end of a slider can be silent. While hitsounds must be audible, these elements are not actively clicked and therefore do not always need feedback.
because to me that just seems like a tutorial-esque tip for newer mappers, but there are soo many reasons to 'break' this guideline, the most convenient example being that you want to express a holding sound that happens to start on a weaker beat than it ends (isn't that what sliders were originally for lol), that it seems weird to me to add it here, it sounds rather scary with the "can be acceptable" and allDesperate-kun wrote:
- Sliders should begin on stronger beats and end on equal or weaker sounds. Stressing important sounds through clicking is more natural to play than stressing unimportant sounds.
- Avoid beginning ¼ sliders on unsupported blue ticks. Often white/red ticks should be prioritized even if the same sound sample is used for blue ticks. If there is a distinctly important sound on the blue tick, however, beginning a ¼ slider there can be acceptable.
What exactly do you mean? Putting a mean pattern and justifying it by it giving back a lot of hp when being played correctly or something like that ?Krimek wrote:
What about the use of NCs for regaining HP? This can be really useful to be done in a rythmical way.Desperate-kun wrote:
Ensure that your combos are not unreasonably short or long. Combos should reflect patterns expressed in the song, such as bars of music or vocal/instrumental phrases.
But we haveTess wrote:
Hanzer streams should not be mapped by anyone that isn't Hanzer
I saw the part mentioned about not overmapping, but what about undermapping? Something likeImportant parts of the song should always be properly represented in each difficulty. Skipping over important parts of the song can lead to random moments of idling where the player feels like they should be playing something, which may make the map uncomfortable or boring to play.Just my 2c
We'll look into thatUndeadCapulet wrote:
This is just an exception to a rule, it seems weird to include this in Guidelines imo. Everything else is saying "avoid x" but this is saying "don't avoid x". It'd be better to move this to Rules, or even a separate section titled something like "Exceptions to Global Ruleset". Also add sliderticks into the list :vRC wrote:
The end of a spinner (or even the entire spinner), the sliding sound of a slider, and the end of a slider can be silent. While hitsounds must be audible, these elements are not actively clicked and therefore do not always need feedback.
Everything else is great, all the problem rules got moved out, and the guidelines section is actually useful for new mappers now. Good job
But if you have exhaustive reasoning to break these 2, it's okay to do so. Exhaustive doens't mean it has to be long it just has to exhaust the arguments available against it so it doesn't forbid stuff like that it discourages its usage in general.Bonsai wrote:
I'm just a bit surprised by this being in the guidelinesbecause to me that just seems like a tutorial-esque tip for newer mappers, but there are soo many reasons to 'break' this guideline, the most convenient example being that you want to express a holding sound that happens to start on a weaker beat than it ends (isn't that what sliders were originally for lol), that it seems weird to me to add it here, it sounds rather scary with the "can be acceptable" and allDesperate-kun wrote:
- Sliders should begin on stronger beats and end on equal or weaker sounds. Stressing important sounds through clicking is more natural to play than stressing unimportant sounds.
- Avoid beginning ¼ sliders on unsupported blue ticks. Often white/red ticks should be prioritized even if the same sound sample is used for blue ticks. If there is a distinctly important sound on the blue tick, however, beginning a ¼ slider there can be acceptable.
I mean this isn't a compendium of tips and tricks for new mappers, it's a list of rather objective stuff that should be avoided breaking at all costs, right?
Other than that this seems good to me
The list of possible alternatives is not the only option it can be. As long as it correctly determines the difficulty, you can basically use whatever you'd like. The list only shows very frequently used names.pinataman wrote:
These rules look both reasonable and helpful for newer mappers. Thank you QAT's for revisiting this subject.
The one issue I have is with naming. Recently, there has been a trend to include a 'Light Insane' type of difficulty in between Hard and Insane. Can this be added to the list of recognized names? Or perhaps even, can we take the opportunity to add another name for this level of difficulty to make this a more authentic difficulty level, preferably one that starts with an 'I' to go with the red 'I' icon like 'Intense' or 'Intermediate'?
This does not have to be a mean pattern. Let's take for an example a longslider or a spinner, and the HP drops down, but followed up by a build-up pattern or whatever. You can use more NCs to get the HP back; e.g. you were playing NCs all 4/1 but at this special part you're using NCs all 1/1 so you can build up your HP way faster.Okorin wrote:
What exactly do you mean? Putting a mean pattern and justifying it by it giving back a lot of hp when being played correctly or something like that ?
No, hold sliders are unrankable because they DON'T have a visible slider border. Need to adjust that wording.fastmarkus wrote:
Hello! Can someone enlighten me here: are now hold sliders rankable? if yes, how do you make a slider border (i don't understand much about mapping, sorry if it is a dumb question) for that? or was this rule already applied?
I got that impression after reading this sentence:"Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end. Sliders which overlap themselves in a way that makes any section unreadable or ambiguous cannot be used, such as burai sliders and hold sliders without straightforward slider borders. Perfectly overlapping slider bodies must give enough time to fully read each slider’s path"
We'll take this into consideration, however it seems like an edge case in which a guideline could be broken. After all NCs are used to make certain things more readable too etc.Krimek wrote:
This does not have to be a mean pattern. Let's take for an example a longslider or a spinner, and the HP drops down, but followed up by a build-up pattern or whatever. You can use more NCs to get the HP back; e.g. you were playing NCs all 4/1 but at this special part you're using NCs all 1/1 so you can build up your HP way faster.Okorin wrote:
What exactly do you mean? Putting a mean pattern and justifying it by it giving back a lot of hp when being played correctly or something like that ?
This stuff is part for difficulty-specific ranking criteria (hint: yes it's on the draft) which will be released once we're done with putting our values through testing (we're currently producing a bunch of maps that break the values we came up with to see if the values we came up with make sense)abraker wrote:
I think there should be a rule regarding that all consecutively stacked notes and slider ends must be snapped to distinced sound or at least have equal snapping intervals because that can lead to confusing patterns otherwise.
The difficulty naming is part of the General Ranking Criteria which applies to all game modes, this is the Ranking Criteria draft which applies to the game mode osu! specifically, so this part is untouched for now.Seni wrote:
You didn't make it very clear if it would still be allowed to use a custom name for the hardest difficulty in a mapset or not. I don't think being permitted to use only the basic names would allow for much variety or creativity, since the hardest difficulty is most often the focus point of a mapset anyway. Having all the hardest difficulties named Expert or Ultra would be really dull.
Will discuss ninja spinners.Cherry Blossom wrote:
I don't know if it was already mentioned by someone else.
But this current Rules/Guidelines doesn't talk about ninja spinners, or not enough explicit about it.
This rule "Spinners must be long enough for Auto to achieve 1000 bonus score. Shorter spinners are unreasonably difficult to complete."
And guildeline "Spinners should be used when they fit the music. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard." are not enough explicit about what is a "ninja spinner", and if it's rankable or not.
By ninja spinners i mean a very short spinner (assume auto can still achieve at least 1000) but in a place where it is not predictable, and for sure, it is suprising for the player and he might combobreak.
The term "ninja spinner" should be added.
Edit, and did you talk about giving enough time after spinners, in easier diffs ?
2B maps aren't allowed, since the General (as in for all modes) Ranking Criteria still disallows two objects at the same time for standard.abraker wrote:
So according to the rules, 2B maps are now allowed? And non moving sliders?
2B is forbidden by General criteria. Non moving sliders are forbidden due to:abraker wrote:
So according to the rules, 2B maps are now allowed? And non moving sliders?
Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end.
Both slider border and body colors must be manually set or not set. Setting only one may conflict with a user’s custom skin choices.Can you please elaborate this?
I think it's meant that if you set for example a red sliderborder and a user has a red slidertrack in their own skin the sliderborder won't be visible anymore thus skinning both is mandatory if you skin one.Sieg wrote:
Both slider border and body colors must be manually set or not set. Setting only one may conflict with a user’s custom skin choices.Can you please elaborate this?
When a user set one of those in their skin (or both) and a mapper sets only one of them, they might end up being the same color.Sieg wrote:
Both slider border and body colors must be manually set or not set. Setting only one may conflict with a user’s custom skin choices.Can you please elaborate this?
Ohhhh I was thinking that in terms of visibility. Like for example, a slider fully in view has a visible path from start to end, but not necessarily has the velocity or consistent velocity which can indicate the time the path starts and the time the path ends.Desperate-kun wrote:
Quote:
Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end.
No, this one is for preventing burai and hold sliders like explained after the bold text.abraker wrote:
Ohhhh I was thinking that in terms of visibility. Like for example, a slider fully in view has a visible path from start to end, but not necessarily has the velocity or consistent velocity which can indicate the time the path starts and the time the path ends.Desperate-kun wrote:
Quote:
Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end.
So if you use custom slider skin element in your map you must set sliderborder, if you have sliderborder set you must set sliderbody? This means sliderbody cannot use combo colors and forced to a single color until feature for this will be implemented by the devs, right?Desperate-kun wrote:
It's a bit unfortunate that it's not possible to force the slidertrack taking the color of the combo colors automatically, like it is in the default skin. We will do our best to make the devs implement this, and then we can remove this rule. But for now, we want to ensure maximum compatibility with player's skins.
Unfortunately, yes. If someone doesn't find a workaround for this (which I highly doubt will happen).Sieg wrote:
So if you use custom slider skin element in your map you must set sliderborder, if you have sliderborder set you must set sliderbody? This means sliderbody cannot use combo colors and forced to a single color until feature for this will be implemented by the devs, right?Desperate-kun wrote:
It's a bit unfortunate that it's not possible to force the slidertrack taking the color of the combo colors automatically, like it is in the default skin. We will do our best to make the devs implement this, and then we can remove this rule. But for now, we want to ensure maximum compatibility with player's skins.
We consulted this and we cannot do this right now. We have no ability to change required values in .osu file for making these work completely, once that is possible, we'll bring the rule. We are aware this causes an issue, but for now, it's only fixable via forcing the default skin (which changes way too many things, if we basically want to change one value). There's one guideline requiring default skin as preferred too, so I agree it doesn't make sense to stay. I planned to create a feature request for this so that we can complete the skinning rules.quaternary wrote:
You might want to add a guideline about using custom numbers in your beatmap skin.
If the player has a HitCircleOverlap or ScoreOverlap value set in their skin.ini and uses the beatmap skin, osu! will use the player's Overlap settings with the beatmap skin's numbers, which, more often than not, just makes a mess...
uh, alright, but this is such a huge limiting in skining to cover just a few edgy cases that may occurDesperate-kun wrote:
Unfortunately, yes. If someone doesn't find a workaround for this (which I highly doubt will happen).Sieg wrote:
So if you use custom slider skin element in your map you must set sliderborder, if you have sliderborder set you must set sliderbody? This means sliderbody cannot use combo colors and forced to a single color until feature for this will be implemented by the devs, right?
will discuss this againSieg wrote:
uh, alright, but this is such a huge limiting in skining to cover just a few edgy cases that may occur
1. there is a typo.
Avoid excessive composition differences in similar sections of a song. The basic spacing and rhythm should similar, while patterning can vary. This is to ensure players do not get confused when playing the same rhythm twice.
> should BE similar
2.
Avoid beginning ¼ sliders on unsupported blue ticks. Often white/red ticks should be prioritized even if the same sound sample is used for blue ticks. If there is a distinctly important sound on the blue tick, however, beginning a ¼ slider there can be acceptable.
probably would want to emphasize that blue tick sound should be more distinct than red/white to start a slider there
3.
Spinners should be used when they fit the music. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard.
3rd sentence refers to 1st so its better like this
Spinners should be used when they fit the music. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections.
4.
Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed.
probably should add that this mostly applies to lower diffs
Will discuss.grumd wrote:
copy pasting this
not sure what was fixed already1. there is a typo.Already fixed.
Avoid excessive composition differences in similar sections of a song. The basic spacing and rhythm should similar, while patterning can vary. This is to ensure players do not get confused when playing the same rhythm twice.
> should BE similargrumd wrote:
2.
Avoid beginning ¼ sliders on unsupported blue ticks. Often white/red ticks should be prioritized even if the same sound sample is used for blue ticks. If there is a distinctly important sound on the blue tick, however, beginning a ¼ slider there can be acceptable.
probably would want to emphasize that blue tick sound should be more distinct than red/white to start a slider there
3.
Spinners should be used when they fit the music. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard.
3rd sentence refers to 1st so its better like this
Spinners should be used when they fit the music. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections.
4.
Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed.
probably should add that this mostly applies to lower diffs
Each map must use at least two different custom combo colors unless the default skin is forced.Koiyuki wrote:
i think custom combo color have to be used, which can be added to the rule 2 in general.
also it seems changing .osu file is not banned, from my side we can allow some of the changing by .osu file like sv, str, lr and some of the slider go through the timing section(red line)......
other seems fine.