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IAHN - Transform (Original Mix)

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Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest
oh I see, my PC is too shit for recording xd
btw, I screenshoted a replay before and I decided to post it, Xilver had an HR testplay before (stalking one day lmao) and he did survive to those butterflies but not FCing it. I think the map is not FCable but it's fully playable.

l1mi wrote:

Really nice mapping, but why is it qualified? is it a new trend to place notes outside the board. (didnt even laugh at that point almost expected it)
this is an aspire entry, a mapping contest that breaks ranking criteria
Last edited by Underforest , edited 2 times in total.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
I think it depends on framerate, too. Testing HR+Relax on my laptop, I need HP3.6 or lower to pass the butterfly sliders, but some people have reported luck with 3.8 or 3.9 - I'll test this more when I get home in a few hours.
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
diraimur
i fail to confirm that map is impossible to hr
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5682945
im guessing i could pass it because slider leniency i had is more because of cs0, but i *think* its possible to pass with cs 4.5 hr too

edit: its definitely because of cs0, so this proves nothing at all, we still need an actual cs4.5 hr pass
Last edited by diraimur , edited 1 time in total.
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest
another 2nd survivor
riktoi
711 posts
Joined September 2014
riktoi
right now there's so much conflicting information that it becomes hard to find out what is different in this map to others. Could it be different osu! versions or different settings? Could it be framerate dependant? Or could it just be flat out luck or incapability/capability on some people's side?

MillhioreF wrote:

I think it depends on framerate, too. Testing HR+Relax on my laptop, I need HP3.6 or lower to pass the butterfly sliders, but some people have reported luck with 3.8 or 3.9 - I'll test this more when I get home in a few hours.
return soon ez hero
Last edited by riktoi , edited 2 times in total.
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN

Monstrata wrote:

This doesn't actually change how the slider is played though. The reason you're getting 100's isn't because of the slider's path, its the notelocking and slider-head window. Whether I have zigzags on the body or not, it won't affect the outcome because only the slider-head, and slider-tail are being factored in.
that's not true, though. play a fast enough slider by holding only the start and the very end and you'll end up getting 100s anyway(might be dependent on framerate... or whether the slider isn't fast enough). Ekoro's shoe has a slider like this at the end which demonstrates that it doesn't necessarily mean i'm not hitting the sliderstart. spamming as hard as i can on a map with the current butterfly sliders on HT also results in a ton of 100s.

on my diff, that effect is somewhat alleviated(and could probably be done away with entirely with a well researched implementation). that's why i can pass it, and not the original.

e: in this video, look at how he aims at the fast circular sliders; he's not aiming at the exact end, but a bit further into it. that's a strategy that i think demonstrates what kind of aiming is required to 300 extremely fast sliders like this.

Monstrata wrote:

You mentioned deleting half of the map. That seriously affects HP drain too though. HP drain is really complex because it also takes into account the entire map's object density, as well as the NC frequency in the map, so removing half of the map already skews the HP drain substantially when comparing it to the full version. (Think of Cookiezi's spinner fail on my Road of Resistance map, except so much of the map was deleted, along with NC rhythms, that the map ended up draining more than it was supposed to. Here the song is shorter, and you've only deleted half, and not 95% so HP drain should be higher than it actually is).
in all cases i'm aware of, the HP drain can only increase because of this, which is also true for the case you just mentioned. i doubt it has an effect on my edit, since i can pass it just fine even if that effect is present here.

i also can't tell if there's a difference in HP between my practice diff for the original sliders and the full map. either way, i don't think it can be done, which is why i'm suggesting it be changed in the first place.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Have people tried placing their cursor such that you barely hit the sliderhead, but your cursor is further inside the sliderbody on the sliderend side? Also, is the only strat for this basically just mashing as fast as they can? Controlled streaming might work as well as long as you hold down your keys long enough.
Although all that's just speculation; I don't have the ability to playtest right now :(
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN


this is accurate enough streaming to be unaffected by notelock(i don't have to do any extra taps, i hit the final circle), and i still can't do it
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
Got home and did some more tests of my own - it's mostly unaffected by framerate (I have maybe one or two extra 300s on 0.7ms vs 4.2ms) and almost definitely impossible - I used relax to ensure notelock didn't happen. Maybe hitting early changes the outcome slightly, but I still doubt it.

HP3.6 seems to be right around the border of possibility - the bar empties right as you hit the next note, so I'm not sure if it's a pass or not. HP3.5 is definitely passable, though.

I'll ask some people higher up in the chain how they feel about this, but I strongly suggest implementing something like in -GN's difficulty; disallowing an entire difficulty-increasing mod is just mean in my opinion.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
The GN slider-thing is just not something I want to do :P. And HP 3.5 is too low for me to feel comfortable with implementing. Play this on nomod please. The entire butterfly animation is lost when you turn on HR and I think that's the highlight of this map. Having it flipped just looks really weird for me. The animation is set up so that the butterfly will spread its wings and appear to fly. That whole effect is lost when you have it upside down. It's not that I don't want this to be passable on HR, but I'm not going to make an exception for it especially since the map takes a huge aesthetic hit when the HR mod is applied.

If you want a challenge, there are plenty of other maps to play where HR doesn't actually mess up the aesthetic value of the map to such a degree.
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN

Monstrata wrote:

The GN slider-thing is just not something I want to do :P
why not? it's the perfect compromise here... i want it to be possible to HR the full map, that's all. nobody's gonna think worse of your map just because the butterfly sliders are upside down when played with a difficulty modifier the map wasn't intended for. the effect isn't lost, you can make out it's a butterfly even if it's upside down, there's nothing wrong with it.

please apply my slider concept. there's nothing wrong with it.
Froslass
Beatmap Nominator
9,342 posts
Joined July 2008
Froslass
To be honest, I appreciate the aesthetic value of this map and don't plan on playing it with HR, but the only thing that's gonna change if you don't nerf the HP drain is the fact that your map is going to have lots of HRNF scores instead of HR ones.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
It really looks bad on Auto cuz you end up seeing it vibrating up and down instead of seeing auto just playing through the whole thing. Also its really hard to set up the overlaps (the ones you have are no where near good, sorry). And the sliders look horrible on HR, that's my call as a mapper. It needs to be upright for you to really appreciate the shape. As well, it needs to be expanding upward, not downward.

Sorry, that's my final decision. No HR.
cr1mmy
194 posts
Joined April 2011
cr1mmy
Please, delete those breaks, they causing lags -,-
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
If you're playing on unlimited, the breaks do force you back down to your frame limiter. Just gotta eat that though, or set a custom frame limiter high enough that you don't notice the drop (or don't play on unlimited)
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
On an unrelated note, Millhi, I beat your minesweeper time.
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
This map is truly amazing
Franc[e]sco
189 posts
Joined August 2009
Franc[e]sco
IMO the slider heads (not the tails tho) should have a louder hitsound in the slider spam sections so that the player at least has some sound feedback to keep rhythm. other than that, awesome map and I'm so excited to see something like this qualified
Frc
363 posts
Joined July 2014
Frc
2016, when how the map looks is more important than how the map plays.

And I'm not talking about the "unrankable" things, I know it's an Aspire map
Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Hollow Wings
very, very, very good.
idke
Former osu! Champion: 2019
107 posts
Joined July 2014
idke
can you actually lower the hp so then you can pass it with hr

one of the rules say "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" and does not limit itself to nomod

sometimes its better to do what the community wants, even when the mapper wants his own way, especially now when it only affects HP and not the actual mapped part of the map
lightr
287 posts
Joined October 2011
lightr
really fantastic
Battle
2,875 posts
Joined February 2014
Battle
lol the rule just says that it needs to be passed without nofail mod, there's literally nothing that says it needs to be passable with other mods
Hinsvar
osu! Alumni
3,826 posts
Joined December 2011
Hinsvar

idke wrote:

one of the rules say "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" and does not limit itself to nomod
Uhm, the rule exactly only says "without the NoFail mod", and doesn't mention any other mods... though admittedly, it'd be cooler if you can use any mod you want to pass the map.

(or did I miss something?)
Battle
2,875 posts
Joined February 2014
Battle
naw fam
Mint
1,611 posts
Joined February 2013
Mint
HR can sometimes destroy the concept & thought behind the map. I think this is applicable here.
If Monstrata does not want to change the HP just for that, I feel that you have to respect his choice. You can always edit HP yourself if you want to play HR so bad.

Good job and congrats. You deserved it.
Natsu
8,100 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
I'm with monstrata in this case, the map won for the design and creativity in no mod, while mods are an important thing in game... in this case I think reducing the hp do more bad than good, since HR destroy the visuals of the map o.o.. and considering this is an aspire map, I guess is better to keep the mapper's way.
unko
521 posts
Joined March 2014
unko
:!:
Last edited by unko , edited 3 times in total.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Generally maps are designed to be played on NoMod, therefore the argument HR doesn't work for this map is invalid. That's why the point "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" is mentioned because that's hilarious if a ranked map can only be played with a score reduce or has a mod requirement to be played properly.

If you're looking for pp or want to challenge yourself with HR Mod, look for another beatmap. This one doesn't suits well.
izeraoS
izeraoS
Should have went full trollmode and just put sliders and shit outside the playzone, i mean you won the contest so regardless of how dogshit the map is, it will get ranked.
Rilene
2,105 posts
Joined April 2014
Rilene
.
Last edited by Rilene , edited 1 time in total.
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN

Stefan wrote:

Generally maps are designed to be played on NoMod, therefore the argument HR doesn't work for this map is invalid.
the point i'm trying my hardest to make is that while it's not a requirement(even though i'd argue it should be), limiting the players because of the HP mechanic is a bullshit thing to do, as it removes an entire way to enjoy the map, and simply limits the challenge of the map for no good reason.

Stefan wrote:

If you're looking for pp or want to challenge yourself with HR Mod, look for another beatmap. This one doesn't suits well.
i'm terribly sorry for saying this, but you have no basis for this - you're a rank 130k player. you don't get to claim this map isn't well suited for HR. 6 stars is way outside of your ability to judge playability of maps. because that's what you're doing, right?

Natsu wrote:

I'm with monstrata in this case, the map won for the design and creativity in no mod, while mods are an important thing in game... in this case I think reducing the hp do more bad than good, since HR destroy the visuals of the map o.o.. and considering this is an aspire map, I guess is better to keep the mapper's way.
the map doesn't suddenly flip upside down when you're on nomod if the sliders are altered to allow HR passes, using the concept i illustrated earlier. the intended experience of the map does not change in this case, i just don't think players should be limited in this way.

appleeaterx wrote:

If Monstrata does not want to change the HP just for that, I feel that you have to respect his choice. You can always edit HP yourself if you want to play HR so bad.
it's not the same thing. you should realize this. you remove the possibility of any HR scores reaching the top scores set on the map, an achievement that should (ideally) reflect the effort/ability put into the map by the players.

come on. the strongest reason argued against this is "it looks weird/different when auto plays GN's quickly edited proof of concept", which i should add, can be done in a much more tasteful way if you alter the zigzag to cover a smaller area. is that REALLY all the reason you need to deny me?
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
No, the main reason is that I don't want to lower the HP. It's already low enough so that you only need some skill to pass the map. Most people 30k can eventually pass this map. Any lower and there's literally no penalty to messing up any of the elements I've used. If you can just pass everything, theres no challenge to different patterns, and it makes the map less memorable. You are far too high ranked to appreciate slowly getting through different stages of a map in an effort to finally get a run that passes it.

We've said all thats needed to be said about this discussion, and my decision remains clear: HP will not be lowered. Thanks for your concerns though, but I'd appreciate if you didn't go into this discussion expecting a change.
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN
don't tell me you forgot about the slider science already. i'm not talking about HP.

Monstrata wrote:

You are far too high ranked to appreciate slowly getting through different stages of a map in an effort to finally get a run that passes it.
that's rude. i'll have you know i had trouble passing apparition up until i finally did it yesterday night.

i'm also not "expecting" anything. i'm just trying my damn hardest to convince you your map should be passable on HR.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
No, I don't want to implement those sliders. What I have works, and creating those up/down vibration movements is not something I want do implement. Additionally the entire slider thing is extremely hard to implement correctly. You can already see how off your slider-ends are when you look at them in editor, and thats already overlooking how unprecise the nodes are. You can't just zigzag them, they have to be perfectly vertical, or the butterfly body's horizontal vibrations, which simulate it fluttering, are completely covered. Something like this requires .osu editing in order to properly implement, and it additionally would have to be applied to every butterfly slider. Also, it would look really bad anyways because the up/down movement can be seen in editor and on HT. I'm not going to implement it. It's far too tedious and time consuming to implement it just to satisfy a few HR players who won't even be playing the sliders how I wanted them played.
idke
Former osu! Champion: 2019
107 posts
Joined July 2014
idke

Monstrata wrote:

If you can just pass everything, theres no challenge to different patterns, and it makes the map less memorable.
if you can't pass a literal impossible map with a mod, theres no challenge or a point to playing the map. really, there isnt a point to not let someone play a mod that was clearly implemented in the game to give experienced players a bigger challenge, even when it ruins the aesthetic value for a map because lets face it, it ruins the aesthetic value for every single map, and not only do most players not even give a single shit about the looks or beauty of the map, they mostly care about having it be playable. really, changing the hp to 3.5 or so won't make it less memorable, because though passing will be somehow easier, achieving a combo will still be as challenging
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg
^
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
good for ctb
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I don't get why players must go out of their way to convince mostrata that this map needs to be HR-able. Is the standard gamemode having a map deficit? You ran out of things to HR? You keep knocking on a door to a club that will not open for you because it is not for you. I like the concept that certain maps are made for players who enjoy the art for what the map is and not players looking to get a good score on. It gives a bit more color and diversity to the existing ranked maps.

TL;DR: Have some taste
Ninmi
16 posts
Joined November 2013
Ninmi

abraker wrote:

I like the concept that certain maps are made for players who enjoy the art for what the map is and not players looking to get a good score on. It gives a bit more color and diversity to the existing ranked maps.
Why is it being pushed in to the core ranking system when it is very clearly not made for that? If you can't play this map properly in ranked, then it does not belong in ranked. In no way should an artists vision obstruct the core gameplay in a way that this clearly seems to. You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.
Abyssal
40 posts
Joined January 2015
Abyssal

Ninmi wrote:

abraker wrote:

I like the concept that certain maps are made for players who enjoy the art for what the map is and not players looking to get a good score on. It gives a bit more color and diversity to the existing ranked maps.
Why is it being pushed in to the core ranking system when it is very clearly not made for that? If you can't play this map properly in ranked, then it does not belong in ranked. In no way should an artists vision obstruct the core gameplay in a way that this clearly seems to. You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.

Because this won the Aspire contest? Literally the whole concept of the Aspire contest is to break practically all rules of mapping. And as i've been told by other "mappers" - "As long as it plays nomod, then what's the issue"
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Ninmi wrote:

Why is it being pushed in to the core ranking system when it is very clearly not made for that? If you can't play this map properly in ranked, then it does not belong in ranked. In no way should an artists vision obstruct the core gameplay in a way that this clearly seems to. You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.
To set it apart from other graveyard maps. It won the Aspire contest for crying outloud. Currently there is no better catagory to put creative playable maps not optimized for playability. Also while not made for gameplay, don't you still wonder how you would do against others on it?


Abyssal wrote:

You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.
Saying that art belongs in the graveyard is like stepping it with your foot. That can hurt any creator's feelings, and more over when it is something as great as this. I am not the creator, and I felt a very offensive vibe from this statement.

Edit: Charles left because players think "drawings" like these belong in the graveyard. I don't blame him. Obviously there is a great divide of opinion here between players who have taste and appriciate the art and players who can want to make scores and can't care less about the art. There needs to be a split in catagory of maps, otherwise this shitstorm will continue. At this point, I am waiting for this thread to be locked.
Last edited by abraker , edited 4 times in total.
Niroe
51 posts
Joined February 2015
Niroe
But, there IS a fix for passing it with HR, -GN proposed it, and if Monstrata don't want to implement it because it's "too tedious", "too time consuming" and that he just don't want to finish cleaning his map, then that shouldn't belong to Ranked map, Aspire or not.

There is a fix that don't change the experience, if he doesn't want to apply it, there is no excuse and that's all.

The good side is that it show us how Monstrata treat his map and the extand of the time and effort he want to spend in, that would be the kind of guy to won a ping-pong match 21 to 5 and finally when the arbiter say to him that he need to re-do the last point because there was an error, even knowing that he will win again, he take the cup and flee away, showing us his middle finger in the process.

That's extremly childish, and there is no "but".
Natsu
8,100 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Niroe wrote:

But, there IS a fix for passing it with HR, -GN proposed it, and if Monstrata don't want to implement it because it's "too tedious", "too time consuming" and that he just don't want to finish cleaning his map, then that shouldn't belong to Ranked map, Aspire or not.

There is a fix that don't change the experience, if he doesn't want to apply it, there is no excuse and that's all.

The good side is that it show us how Monstrata treat his map and the extand of the time and effort he want to spend in, that would be the kind of guy to won a ping-pong match 21 to 5 and finally when the arbiter say to him that he need to re-do the last point because there was an error, even knowing that he will win again, he take the cup and flee away, showing us his middle finger in the process.

That's extremly childish, and there is no "but".
Mods aren't taken in consideration for ranked maps, aspire or any other map, if the mapper want to fix then is up to him, but the mapper believe the map get hurt on the intended way of no mod, then you guys should respect the mapper decision and move on. GN's suggestion hurt the design of the map and the HP fix hurt the no mod intended way.

You already pointed your suggestion the mapper disagree with it and provide you valid explains, move on guys there are thousand of maps that can be played with hr, also is monstrata map, no your map, you can do suggestions, but you can't force him to hurt his work because of you, the map still can be played with hr + no fail.
Straw Hat
41 posts
Joined September 2014
Straw Hat
great map :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Ninmi
16 posts
Joined November 2013
Ninmi

Abyssal wrote:

Because this won the Aspire contest? Literally the whole concept of the Aspire contest is to break practically all rules of mapping. And as i've been told by other "mappers" - "As long as it plays nomod, then what's the issue"
If the contest was about breaking ranked rules, then maybe the maps should not be ranked. I was really puzzled as to why repeating sliders that don't use the actual repeat mechanism and circles outside of the play area were suddenly allowed, but I guess this is the culprit. I am heavily in favour of winning maps like these rather getting their own leaderboard and other sorts of prestige attached to them.
melloe
275 posts
Joined February 2013
melloe
just play the map, not everything has to be hr. it may not seem much to you but for the mapper it is asking a lot to tell him to change his sliders in a way he doesnt want to. honestly if i put all that work into pretty butterfly sliders i would not want even want to add those zigzags to it, it's totally understandable

that being said, lowering hp will not affect "memorability," what a silly notion, nobody is going to say "aw man that was too easy to pass, fuck that map i'm gonna forget all about it, it was nothing special!" and if you cant pass the map on hp4 then it's probably because you cant read it, and in all likelihood cant pass on hp3 either

abraker wrote:

Charles left because players think "drawings" like these belong in the graveyard. I don't blame him. Obviously there is a great divide of opinion here between players who have taste and appriciate the art and players who can want to make scores and can't care less about the art. There needs to be a split in catagory of maps, otherwise this shitstorm will continue. At this point, I am waiting for this thread to be locked.
hi could you not misrepresent charles, nothing mentioned in his podcast even remotely resembles your elitist conception of art and taste
Athrun
1,049 posts
Joined December 2013
Athrun
Not even sure about the future of this...
Nyanaro
Beatmap Nominator
246 posts
Joined March 2014
Nyanaro
I am no expert in how the editor works, but can't you just add ''breaks'' like you did in some parts of the map at the butterfly sliderstream so that you can survive the map without losing HP so that you could pass it on HR?
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
I'll reconsider HP 3.5. Can we stop stop drama upload? Thanks~

I'll make my decision at the end of the day, cuz I got stuff to do~ Feel free to redirect your salt to p/5343206.
Yunomi
292 posts
Joined May 2014
Yunomi
from my modqueue
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru

Nyanaro wrote:

I am no expert in how the editor works, but can't you just add ''breaks'' like you did in some parts of the map at the butterfly sliderstream so that you can survive the map without losing HP so that you could pass it on HR?
this actually sounds like a plausible fix
Cylux
20 posts
Joined August 2014
Cylux


I studied the sliders a bit with automod since all of you seem to get different results with the auto mod.

The answer to this is, that it depends on many factors:
1. Your FPS-Limit (I got the best Accuracy with VSync)
2. The speed you are viewing the play (0,5x 1x or 2x)
3. The Mods you are using (Nomod, HR, DT, HRDT and HDHRDT are all giving completly different results)

I tested many possibilities and got dozens of different results with this. Also it seems to be impossible to get a SS with HRDT, no matter which settings you choose. A nomod SS or HR SS is possible with the right options though.

But nevertheless the most strange thing is the play I just got with 20fps as you see at the #1 Spot. 4 combopoints are missing but it has only 3x 100s.
Osu Mapman
2,514 posts
Joined August 2012
Osu Mapman
lmao this thread

well, there is an idea which could prevent shitstorm like this one: What if same what happened to TAG maps would happen to further aspire winner's maps? Still, there will be people who will cry about how unpassable 2b mapping with hr/fl/ezhd/potato mods (while not being able to do even nomod), but there will be less of them, because of no pepe immo.
Battle
2,875 posts
Joined February 2014
Battle
It's not even an issue with pp tbh because it's probably going to be pretty underweighted compared to its difficulty like Charles' map. Besides that the acc is definitely going to drop since the sliders make it guaranteed that a few 100s are going to happen z
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN

EvilElvis wrote:

Still, there will be people who will cry about how unpassable 2b mapping with hr/fl/ezhd/potato mods (while not being able to do even nomod), but there will be less of them, because of no pepe immo.
who are you referring to here? is pp the only reason to care about the map being passable on hr?
Spaghetti
1,118 posts
Joined August 2014
Spaghetti

Kibbleru wrote:

Nyanaro wrote:

I am no expert in how the editor works, but can't you just add ''breaks'' like you did in some parts of the map at the butterfly sliderstream so that you can survive the map without losing HP so that you could pass it on HR?
this actually sounds like a plausible fix
i still second this
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
What do the breaks even do except giving warningarrows and lag?
Mindwaves
69 posts
Joined September 2010
Mindwaves
So i just looked at the map and Hum...
Do anyone remenber how HP work in this game anymore???

like...
Why in f**king hell of all this drama, has nobody propose to just change all the note in the butterfly to new combo, making it passable with HR, cause that's how new combo WORK!?!
Then you just have the make the new combo be the same colour has the previous note where before the change, this way the map look exactly the same and GG!

I just tested it and it with HR and it work perfectly, with literraly NO need to change the HP, the slider, the look, or the playability of the map!
Basically the only change required is to add new combo colour.(and maybe not even, cause you can probably just edit color using the osu file)
Last edited by Mindwaves , edited 1 time in total.
Froslass
Beatmap Nominator
9,342 posts
Joined July 2008
Froslass

Mindwaves wrote:

So i just looked at the map and Hum...
Do anyone remenber how HP work in this game anymore???

like...
Why in f**king hell of all this drama, has nobody propose to just change all the note in the butterfly to new combo, making it passable with HR, cause that's how new combo WORK!?!
Then you just have the make the new combo be the same colour has the previous note where before the change, this way the map look exactly the same and GG!

I just tested it and it with HR and it work perfectly, with literraly NO need to change the HP, the slider, the look, or the playability of the map!
Basically the only change required is to add new combo colour.

this actually makes a whole lot of sense lol
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
It was all a lie.
Last edited by Monstrata , edited 1 time in total.
Lasse
osu! Alumni
3,648 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse

Monstrata wrote:

Uh, how exactly do you add more NC's without messing up the combo colors? Lol
by editing the .osu http://i.imgur.com/zHr1JdS.jpg
the fourth value has to be set to 118* for each slider you want to nc with the same color as before

for 01:11:260 (2) - it would be 256,192,71433,118,0......... in the file

*value will be different for circles, but that obviously doesn't matter here since it's only sliders
Xilver15
Former osu! Champion: 2015
514 posts
Joined August 2013
Xilver15
hi uuuh i've been getting mentions here so

i did play the map with hr a couple of times but i had nf on on all of them, pretty sure i didn't pass any of my runs because i thought the map wasn't passable with hr? sadly i can't find the replay but i'm sure i played hrnf on all of my hr runs

not gonna give any opinions on this matter, just saying i don't have a pass on the map with hr lol
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Huh, so thats how it works. Assuming doubling the NC will fix the HP drain i'll implement the change. Can someone confirm? I'll contact a QAT when I get home from work (2 hours?).

Confirmed through my imagination so someone feel free to DQ this now (or in 2 hours when I get back home?) i'll update with the changes and get quadruple rebubbles~.

Quick, someone post "We did it!" on Reddit for free karma!
Last edited by Monstrata , edited 2 times in total.
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite
you should probably add aspire contest and its characteristics to your map description to avoid idiots from posting nonsense
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Lol. Good idea haha.
Battle
2,875 posts
Joined February 2014
Battle
or just use a ss of what loctav said in the last aspire thread lol

Mindwaves
69 posts
Joined September 2010
Mindwaves
by editing the .osu http://i.imgur.com/zHr1JdS.jpg
the fourth value has to be set to 118* for each slider you want to nc with the same color as before
Pfiuu thanks a lot, i knew there was a way to do it by editing the .osu but didn't have the courage to try finding to good one more then 10 minutes(so much number :V), you save my sanity :p

Confirmed through forum pm so someone feel free to DQ this now (or in 2 hours when I get back home?) i'll update with the changes and get quadruple rebubbles~.
Nice.
Hopefully there while be no more problem in the future :)

you should probably add aspire contest and its characteristics to your map description to avoid idiots from posting nonsense
Ahahah good luck with that, i'm sure even writing it in the map description wouldn't work!
And speaking of which... *Go see map description of both aspire map*
Yep, i knew it :p
I also just notice Evanescent and this map almost have the same SR, pretty sure it's not on purpose but the the gimmicky feeling of it pass pretty well^^
Remyria
365 posts
Joined June 2012
Remyria

Battle wrote:

or just use a ss of what loctav said in the last aspire thread lol

It would make sense if there WAS a "gimmick category" (which is a very popular request in feature requests). So why not just adding it instead of put it in the same basket as the other ranked maps? Since rules are differents, the category should be as well. EDIT: And by the same time, a couple very nice unranked maps could gain in visibility by going in that category.
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite

Mindwaves wrote:

you should probably add aspire contest and its characteristics to your map description to avoid idiots from posting nonsense
Ahahah good luck with that, i'm sure even writing it in the map description wouldn't work!
And speaking of which... *Go see map description of both aspire map*
Yep, i knew it :p
I also just notice Evanescent and this map almost have the same SR, pretty sure it's not on purpose but the the gimmicky feeling of it pass pretty well^^
Including a short summary and highlighting the important bits would still help for those confused what the map is about.
I know the official tournament and winner page are linked there already, but not everyone is going to bother reading through the walls of text.
Suisei Hosimati
3,049 posts
Joined March 2013
Suisei Hosimati
Inb4 some kind of nazi mods might just come here splitting blah blahs with his rude insults and abusing his powers by locking this thread

And the drama goes on and on and on...
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
5,050 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
as requested, Monstrata will make the butterfly sliders more unrankable than they already are so people can pass the map
allein
Beatmap Nominator
832 posts
Joined March 2015
allein
oh lel
Not Jeef
28 posts
Joined December 2014
Not Jeef

Okorin wrote:

as requested, Monstrata will make the butterfly sliders more unrankable than they already are so people can pass the map
Does this mean that the map wont get approved?

I hope not
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
New fix is confirmed passable by Xilver. We went with the solution proposed by Mindwaves, with help from Lasse. NC pattern is now every slider, instead of every two, so you get twice the HP recovery you normally would. Total HP drain is slightly higher now due to increased NC density, but it doesn't seem to amount to anything. Hopefully everyone's happy now.
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest

My_acc-X_X wrote:

Does this mean that the map wont get approved?

I hope not
This is an aspire entry, the map is the winner from this contest so it will get approved ASAP
Go away if you don't have anything useful to say, thanks
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
5,050 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
okay, here have that flame back. It's HR'able with very little effort on those sliders as they will first give you 100% hp regardless of what you do and then only drain you to ~50%.

if you fail these now it probably isn't monstrata's fault anymore
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest
the community wins, as always :P

gratz again \:D/
allein
Beatmap Nominator
832 posts
Joined March 2015
allein
gg haha
Nishizumi
1,092 posts
Joined March 2013
Nishizumi
why don't you add butterfly into tags ? lol jk

yeay gratz
Haruto
1,823 posts
Joined December 2013
Haruto

Underforest wrote:

the community wins, as always :P

gratz again \:D/
hr will make the butterfly sliders looks ugly tho but why x_x
anyways regrats senpai <3
Lince Cosmico_old
Lince Cosmico_old

Underforest wrote:

the community wins, as always
Witch
27 posts
Joined October 2013
Witch
tbh,Mendes is unHR-able.
DiamondRain
DiamondRain

Witch wrote:

tbh,Mendes is unHR-able.
true, but its been ranked ages ago so you cant change that.
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest

DiamondRain wrote:

true, but its been ranked ages ago so you cant change that.
It's ranked about 3 hours ago, I think there's no issue with it
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
5,050 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
They were obviously talking about mendes, which was ranked in 2010...
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest
oh I see
Osu Mapman
2,514 posts
Joined August 2012
Osu Mapman

-GN wrote:

EvilElvis wrote:

Still, there will be people who will cry about how unpassable 2b mapping with hr/fl/ezhd/potato mods (while not being able to do even nomod), but there will be less of them, because of no pepe immo.
who are you referring to here? is pp the only reason to care about the map being passable on hr?
i actually didn't said thats t h e o n l y r e a s o n, basically i said that i believe thats the MAIN reason why people complain about this. I hope i'm wrong at this point but peperoni in my opinion have really strong influence on how most of the community meet map (not exactly this one, but every map) and i think if this certain map hadn't potential for giving pp there were way less complaints about how passable this map on HR is. Also, let's be honest, there not that many people who can pass the map with hr and there won't be many in the future, but because of current playerbase mindset (which is fine at all, but in some cases like this one i found it pretty weird personally) people who w o n ' t b e a b l e e v e r p a s s i t w i t h H R, start to complain (most of them even don't have idea what's Aspire contest is actually) together with people who actually good enough to do it only because these certain pros wasn't able to pass map with mod (map being special case) due to its settings what i found pretty much wrong.

But well, since there is new fixes and everybody happy about them (i hope), i think there is no need in this discussion anymore (at least not in this thread)
Kensuke
Beatmap Nominator
1,878 posts
Joined April 2014
Kensuke
more drama?
riktoi
711 posts
Joined September 2014
riktoi
nah
LordRaika
Elite Mapper
1,438 posts
Joined September 2013
LordRaika
i really agree on a map that can be enjoyable, its even FCable-wise with technical skills + gameplay understanding. love this!



creativity can goes way beyond any limitation since rule limits most of the things you can do...




^^b gratz!!!
6 9_old_1
6 9_old_1
This is flatout cancer
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest
Please don't say nothing if you don't have nothing positive to comment, thanks
AncuL
1,114 posts
Joined March 2013
AncuL
Editor understanding at whole new level
grats!
C00L
1,078 posts
Joined September 2014
C00L
just to point out that when you scroll back on this note 01:36:348 (1) - it takes you right back here 01:25:313 (8) - and when its playing even here - 00:51:692 (1) - haha

i have no idea if this has been posted before, it's a pretty bug lol
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Yea lol. Cuz the BPM is 1.359 xD
C00L
1,078 posts
Joined September 2014
C00L
drunk editor :roll:
AustinsGuitar
61 posts
Joined April 2014
AustinsGuitar
00:11:175 - sliders are kinda "unfair" or "not timed corectly" :3 just saying. good luck on your map otherwize.

ps: not happy with the direction.
unko
521 posts
Joined March 2014
unko
when do i get a new computer so i can acually play it
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
When you upgrade from Microsoft Vista
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