very, very, very good.
Uhm, the rule exactly only says "without the NoFail mod", and doesn't mention any other mods... though admittedly, it'd be cooler if you can use any mod you want to pass the map.idke wrote:
one of the rules say "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" and does not limit itself to nomod
the point i'm trying my hardest to make is that while it's not a requirement(even though i'd argue it should be), limiting the players because of the HP mechanic is a bullshit thing to do, as it removes an entire way to enjoy the map, and simply limits the challenge of the map for no good reason.Stefan wrote:
Generally maps are designed to be played on NoMod, therefore the argument HR doesn't work for this map is invalid.
i'm terribly sorry for saying this, but you have no basis for this - you're a rank 130k player. you don't get to claim this map isn't well suited for HR. 6 stars is way outside of your ability to judge playability of maps. because that's what you're doing, right?Stefan wrote:
If you're looking for pp or want to challenge yourself with HR Mod, look for another beatmap. This one doesn't suits well.
the map doesn't suddenly flip upside down when you're on nomod if the sliders are altered to allow HR passes, using the concept i illustrated earlier. the intended experience of the map does not change in this case, i just don't think players should be limited in this way.Natsu wrote:
I'm with monstrata in this case, the map won for the design and creativity in no mod, while mods are an important thing in game... in this case I think reducing the hp do more bad than good, since HR destroy the visuals of the map o.o.. and considering this is an aspire map, I guess is better to keep the mapper's way.
it's not the same thing. you should realize this. you remove the possibility of any HR scores reaching the top scores set on the map, an achievement that should (ideally) reflect the effort/ability put into the map by the players.appleeaterx wrote:
If Monstrata does not want to change the HP just for that, I feel that you have to respect his choice. You can always edit HP yourself if you want to play HR so bad.
that's rude. i'll have you know i had trouble passing apparition up until i finally did it yesterday night.Monstrata wrote:
You are far too high ranked to appreciate slowly getting through different stages of a map in an effort to finally get a run that passes it.
if you can't pass a literal impossible map with a mod, theres no challenge or a point to playing the map. really, there isnt a point to not let someone play a mod that was clearly implemented in the game to give experienced players a bigger challenge, even when it ruins the aesthetic value for a map because lets face it, it ruins the aesthetic value for every single map, and not only do most players not even give a single shit about the looks or beauty of the map, they mostly care about having it be playable. really, changing the hp to 3.5 or so won't make it less memorable, because though passing will be somehow easier, achieving a combo will still be as challengingMonstrata wrote:
If you can just pass everything, theres no challenge to different patterns, and it makes the map less memorable.
Why is it being pushed in to the core ranking system when it is very clearly not made for that? If you can't play this map properly in ranked, then it does not belong in ranked. In no way should an artists vision obstruct the core gameplay in a way that this clearly seems to. You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.abraker wrote:
I like the concept that certain maps are made for players who enjoy the art for what the map is and not players looking to get a good score on. It gives a bit more color and diversity to the existing ranked maps.
Ninmi wrote:
Why is it being pushed in to the core ranking system when it is very clearly not made for that? If you can't play this map properly in ranked, then it does not belong in ranked. In no way should an artists vision obstruct the core gameplay in a way that this clearly seems to. You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.abraker wrote:
I like the concept that certain maps are made for players who enjoy the art for what the map is and not players looking to get a good score on. It gives a bit more color and diversity to the existing ranked maps.
To set it apart from other graveyard maps. It won the Aspire contest for crying outloud. Currently there is no better catagory to put creative playable maps not optimized for playability. Also while not made for gameplay, don't you still wonder how you would do against others on it?Ninmi wrote:
Why is it being pushed in to the core ranking system when it is very clearly not made for that? If you can't play this map properly in ranked, then it does not belong in ranked. In no way should an artists vision obstruct the core gameplay in a way that this clearly seems to. You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.
Saying that art belongs in the graveyard is like stepping it with your foot. That can hurt any creator's feelings, and more over when it is something as great as this. I am not the creator, and I felt a very offensive vibe from this statement.Abyssal wrote:
You're free to draw paintings in the graveyard.
Mods aren't taken in consideration for ranked maps, aspire or any other map, if the mapper want to fix then is up to him, but the mapper believe the map get hurt on the intended way of no mod, then you guys should respect the mapper decision and move on. GN's suggestion hurt the design of the map and the HP fix hurt the no mod intended way.Niroe wrote:
But, there IS a fix for passing it with HR, -GN proposed it, and if Monstrata don't want to implement it because it's "too tedious", "too time consuming" and that he just don't want to finish cleaning his map, then that shouldn't belong to Ranked map, Aspire or not.
There is a fix that don't change the experience, if he doesn't want to apply it, there is no excuse and that's all.
The good side is that it show us how Monstrata treat his map and the extand of the time and effort he want to spend in, that would be the kind of guy to won a ping-pong match 21 to 5 and finally when the arbiter say to him that he need to re-do the last point because there was an error, even knowing that he will win again, he take the cup and flee away, showing us his middle finger in the process.
That's extremly childish, and there is no "but".
If the contest was about breaking ranked rules, then maybe the maps should not be ranked. I was really puzzled as to why repeating sliders that don't use the actual repeat mechanism and circles outside of the play area were suddenly allowed, but I guess this is the culprit. I am heavily in favour of winning maps like these rather getting their own leaderboard and other sorts of prestige attached to them.Abyssal wrote:
Because this won the Aspire contest? Literally the whole concept of the Aspire contest is to break practically all rules of mapping. And as i've been told by other "mappers" - "As long as it plays nomod, then what's the issue"
hi could you not misrepresent charles, nothing mentioned in his podcast even remotely resembles your elitist conception of art and tasteabraker wrote:
Charles left because players think "drawings" like these belong in the graveyard. I don't blame him. Obviously there is a great divide of opinion here between players who have taste and appriciate the art and players who can want to make scores and can't care less about the art. There needs to be a split in catagory of maps, otherwise this shitstorm will continue. At this point, I am waiting for this thread to be locked.
this actually sounds like a plausible fixNyanaro wrote:
I am no expert in how the editor works, but can't you just add ''breaks'' like you did in some parts of the map at the butterfly sliderstream so that you can survive the map without losing HP so that you could pass it on HR?
who are you referring to here? is pp the only reason to care about the map being passable on hr?EvilElvis wrote:
Still, there will be people who will cry about how unpassable 2b mapping with hr/fl/ezhd/potato mods (while not being able to do even nomod), but there will be less of them, because of no pepe immo.
i still second thisKibbleru wrote:
this actually sounds like a plausible fixNyanaro wrote:
I am no expert in how the editor works, but can't you just add ''breaks'' like you did in some parts of the map at the butterfly sliderstream so that you can survive the map without losing HP so that you could pass it on HR?