Kuo Kyoka wrote:

nora2r - B.B.K.K.B.K.K. (Extended Mix) [OsuMania Modding]

===

Beatmap Nominator Modding / Iconning

Mod Requested by victorica_db

[Generals]
- BPM: Okay
- Offset: 505 is more fit then
- AiMod: Okay
- Tags: Okay
- BG: Okay
- Kiai: Okay
- Metadata: Okay
- Folder’s problem: Fine
- Hitsound: soft-hitwhistle.wav is delayed, here is your fixer: http://puu.sh/noty4/6564d7d1b6.wav
- Timing: Okay
- Other: Okay

Column
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |

“Here come of some suggest for your map, I always check fullmap, if I’m too tried I will come back soon, or only check that keys by the request! And remember to reply the mod when you’re accepcted it or not! And dont forget my kuds if my suggest is useful ~ Thanks for requested me ~
means I will come back

[Bass Kick]

SPOILER

• how about change name to: BASS KICK
  cap will be more fit with the title
  Hitsound is quite hard to hearing well, increase it to 50%
  00:00:862 (862|1,1568|1,2274|1,2980|1,3686|1,4392|1,5098|1,5804|1,6157|1,6862|1,7568|1,8274|1,8980|1,9686|1,10392|1,11098|1) - how about move this to 8th column, as it's only for kick sound, no other sound than this on 1/1 here, only have hihat but it's on 1/2
  01:30:421 (90421|4,90686|4) - it's higher pitch than 01:29:715 (89715|4,89980|4) - , move this to another column to make it fit with music i prefer now
  02:03:686 - making this will be more fit with music: http://puu.sh/notbJ/f69ededc2a.jpg
  02:11:362 - low kick, you also mapped two kickes on here 02:11:627 - so on there add one more note
  02:14:980 - from to 02:20:274 - are unsnapped, make it blank is the best resolution thenbut i dont want to blank it i i check the snap
  04:13:921 - my suggestion is http://puu.sh/noton/3ea1448706.jpg for patterns and also pitch

[Overall]
man, i love this song, also your map constructed so well, i'm very love itfix all thanks
call me back soon

Feerum wrote:

Requested Check


Column: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |
======================================================
Red means Unrankable stuff
Big means Important stuff
Normal are Suggestions
// means comments
======================================================

Hello victorica_db
Check as requested

General

Artist: Right
Title: Right
Source: Right
Tags: Right
AiMod: Right
Background: Right
BPM/Offset: Right
mp3/Hitsounds: Two hitsounds have some delay. I cut it for you. | click
Other: -

Bass Kick

00:38:093 (38093|3) - Move this to 3 to avoid here 00:38:093 (38093|3,38269|3) - a 1/2 beat Jack. You don't have any 1/2 jack in this part so.. this shouldn't be one too.
00:45:593 (45593|4) - You really want to have this note here? I mean sure there is a sound but it's really not audible on 100% playback, what is Normal while playing. Please Consider to remove it because it doesn't feel like a 1/4 note should be here.
00:55:387 (55387|1) - I highly recommend to remove this. The tripple is not a bad idea but you started it on the wrong place. This Triple here is fine 00:56:622 (56622|1,56799|3,56975|5) - since you emphasize the ending of a Part or rather a part where the music starts to get louder.
01:25:210 (85210|0) - Missing Finish Hitsound?
02:10:916 (130916|2,130916|7,131004|6,131004|4) - -> 02:12:328 (132328|7,132328|4,132416|6) - are same but you have different amount of notes. Add or Remove a note.
03:07:563 (187563|5,187563|7,187563|2) - Why here three notes? It's the only triple in this part.
03:30:857 (210857|1) - Why has this kick only single note? pretty sure it's same like 03:25:210 (205210|7,205210|1) - .
03:42:152 (222152|4,222328|4,222504|4,222681|4) - Please try to arrange here a bit the notes. This is just uagh.
03:51:328 (231328|3,231504|3,231681|3,231857|3) - Same thing here, recommend to CTRL + G these 03:51:857 no(231857|3,231946|2) - .
03:53:269 (233269|3) - Move to 5, better playability.
03:54:681 (234681|3,234857|4,235034|3) - CTRL + H here.
04:12:681 - Missing note? You used always doubles on the red beats.
04:04:563 - Here too?
03:57:857 - Too?
04:03:504 - Here too?
04:07:740 - ?
04:14:093 (254093|7,254093|3) - Either you have here a Note too much or 04:14:446 - is a missing note, see 03:59:975 (239975|5,240328|5) - .
04:28:299 (268299|4) - -> 04:22:652 (262652|6,262652|4) - ?_? They are absolute same.
04:41:093 (281093|3,281181|2,281269|4,281357|3) - I'm pretty sure you should remove here the "finish" hitsound.
04:56:799 (296799|5) - move to 7 to avoid 04:56:269 (296269|5,296446|5,296622|5,296799|5) - .
05:03:857 (303857|0) - Uh for what this scratch here. Seems kinda random placed.
05:17:093 (317093|0) - Also this one, the previous one i understand because of the cymbal but for what this one?mistake xD
05:17:004 (317004|4,318416|4,319828|4) - When you mapped all these only with single note you should keep consistency and remove 05:21:240 (321240|4) - ?

Ok that's all.
Maybe recheck the kiai 2-3 Times after apply my mod, it seems pretty inconsistent for me.
Call me back then

Feerum wrote:

Alright, recheck time. Looks like i "overlook" some minor things.

[Bass Kick]
00:23:269 (23269|4,23269|6) - You should delete one note here. See 00:24:681 - , 00:26:093 - etc.k
I saw from here 01:08:269 - to 01:13:916 - you used two notes on some red beats. Like 01:08:446 - , 01:09:857 - . I mean i have no problem with that, but before you used only 1 Note. and later, from 01:13:916 - you start again using only one note?one note one sound i have check it xD
01:19:740 (79740|6,79740|2) - Delete one note? See also 01:21:152 - , 01:22:563 - etc.k
01:39:593 (99593|3,99593|6) - One note too much? See 01:36:769 - , 01:38:181 - etc.change to 2 notes
01:42:681 (102681|5,102681|2,102769|1,102769|6) - -> 01:44:093 (104093|7,104093|5,104181|3) - inconsistency in notes. Delete a nite here. 01:42:769 - i think it is fine
02:59:093 (179093|7,179269|5) - Jack these Pattern to keep consistency with your Style here k
03:05:975 - Missing note?k
03:12:681 - Delete a note? See 03:15:504 - and 03:18:328 - etc.kk
03:30:946 - Delete a Note? See 03:25:299 - .k
04:55:652 (295652|3,295652|5) - Delete a note here? See 04:58:475 - .
05:00:593 - Not sure but i think here's a note missing.i think nothing here xD


Okay, these should solve the last inconsistency errors.
Call me back

Feerum wrote:

Hm.. i don't know why but.. i'm still not really satisfied with the Map now.
I mean yeah i will qualify it probably and sorry for such a nazi mod of me but i want to be sure everything will be fine.
So here are some last suggestions:

[Bass Kick]
03:27:857 (207857|4,207857|6,207857|2) - This should be definitely only two Notes. It's pretty same like 03:25:034 - and 03:26:446 - .there is one more sound
03:26:622 - should have only two notes. Has only kick here, no clap.
04:28:299 - I think here's a note missing, according to 04:22:652 (262652|4,262652|6) -
04:45:240 (285240|6,285240|4) - This one is somehow strange for me. It's literally same like 04:48:063 - and 04:50:887 - .. Please delete a note here to keep it consistent.
little selfchange
Ok, that's really the last thing.
Sorry not sorry for nazi mod. Hehe.

Call me back

iJinjin wrote:

Damn I wish the alternating scratch issue gets solved quickly so that I won't have too many problems playing that scratch jack section. Very solid map otherwise, good job ^^

SPOILER

victorica_db wrote:

i wont change that part. the technical problem is not my issue.i have already say it again and again to u in other map

victorica_db wrote:

it is unmeaningness to disscuss with u about this.problem

victorica_db wrote:

i dont know why u always do this kind of thing in almost every my 8k map

MeowPaz wrote:

victor is truly hardwork think about this part.then became this the best.
you cant only use your finger talk about it.or thinking

peroperoplayer wrote:

you want it to go for ranking right? then look through why he said these patterns don't work, you guys just circlejerking like idiots won't change the fact the game is terrible at handling dual scratching, if a high ranker player says they can't enjoy/can't play it properly due to limitations, then actually listen and make changes or say why you don't want to change instead of thinking you can get away with shit.

SanadaYukimura wrote:

since when the map quality decide by the high rank player

SanadaYukimura wrote:

since when the map quality decide by the high rank player

Spy wrote:

snip

Spy wrote:

Is there any BMS ★9dan player coming to teach how to mapping

Rumia- wrote:

may you fly

puxtu wrote:

yes please fly far away and never comeback again

pocket-Gao wrote:

cant play 8K = have no right to meme

plz stop

xanibabe wrote:

02:16:034 (136034|0,136299|0,136607|0,136916|0,137210|0,137446|0,137681|0,137916|0) - While I understand the reasoning behind the scratch jacks, I don't think it's playable.
It is definitely playable. It is hard but absolutely manageable.

It's all on one column so the player will most likely attempt to read this as a jack and expect consistent spacing, however the spacing is not consistent throughout the section.
It doesn't look like a consistent spacing jack at all, especially with a high scroll speed. A player with good reading skill should notice that easily.

Sure it follows the song, but so would a stair pattern spread across all fingers or a trill or some other pattern that could be much more readable and playable.
I agree and indeed maybe some players prefer a easier/more readable pattern, but it is not mandatory for vitorica to provide such a pattern. He has his own pattern in mind and he likes it, and it is totally reasonable and playable. I don't see the necessity for victorica to make any change.

Gekido- wrote:

Okay my opinion is going to be the same whether or not the dual-scratch functionality is good or not. I don't think that having a bunch of scratches at a non-consistent speed is a good idea.
It is definitely not player-friendly but whether it is a good idea or not is very subjective. Think about jack/LN walls or any other "controversial" pattern in general. There are always people out there against certain patterns that they don't like or they believe improper. In my opinion, the pattern "having a bunch of scratches at a non-consistent speed" is challenging(however, fits the overall difficulty of this chart), but pretty fun at the same time and follows the music well.

You don't see that on really any other maps whether it is 8k or any other keymode.
There are actually plenty of BMS charts that have this patterns I believe.

It's like the same as mapping the drums all to one key and making a completely unnecessary jack. In this case it is especially bad because the scratches do not follow a consistent speed, and it makes it really hard to read. There is no reason for it here in my opinion. I would suggest using a stair pattern instead that leads into a scratch hold as the last note, as this would be much easier to read and much more justifiable.
As I said above, I do believe a stair pattern would be much better, but I also would like to remind all modders/players to respect victorica's opinions. This is after all his map.

Choofers wrote:

the scratch-jacks are unable to be played due to an inherent issue with the osu!mania engine
you need to fix them
Mapper has no responsibility to fix any game issue.

victorica_db wrote:

,可以 可以
烦的一比

victorica_db wrote:

i only want to say nice DQ which is impossible for me to do rerank again because i wont change that part. never.although thats as your said that the osu mania itself cant do scratch well

victorica_db wrote:

]1.it is the part to connect the early Part
2.scratch pattern is the best way to express this part in my opinion
3.it just a normal pattern for 7+1 map
4.it just follow the rc

victorica_db wrote:

]6.i think most people cant use double scratch key. so the problem wont exist. and most u all are keyboard player.although there are some jacks here ,no other keys here .u can use all your energy to press. if u can achieve A rank on this map i think it wont be a problem.i find many testers they dont tell me "this part cant play "

victorica_db wrote:

]i cant understand why dQ my map ? i cant understand the when one people come to said that this part is hard to play and cant play it well ,then a lot of people that i haven't seen before come to here to attack me again and agian. i cant understand the way of how u mapping . i cant understand that u all always want to find something to start drama in all my map

victorica_db wrote:

]i think 99% of u think my map is shit. i cant deny. i still just study from day to day.
i never use style to express mapping
i just choose the best way in my mind to map a song

iJinJin wrote:

Very solid map otherwise, good job ^^

stupud man wrote:

I really like everything about this map, except for one part

richardfeder wrote:

Gekido- wrote:

Okay my opinion is going to be the same whether or not the dual-scratch functionality is good or not. I don't think that having a bunch of scratches at a non-consistent speed is a good idea.

You don't see that on really any other maps whether it is 8k or any other keymode.

There are actually plenty of BMS charts that have this patterns I believe.

victorica_db wrote:

1.it is the part to connect the early Part

2.scratch pattern is the best way to express this part in my opinion

3.it just a normal pattern for 7+1 map

5.if u cant play this part ok u just cant play this map it is the easy part in this map

6.i think most people cant use double scratch key. so the problem wont exist. and most u all are keyboard player.although there are some jacks here ,no other keys here .u can use all your energy to press. if u can achieve A rank on this map i think it wont be a problem.i find many testers they dont tell me "this part cant play "

i cant understand why dQ my map ?

i cant understand the when one people come to said that this part is hard to play and cant play it well ,then a lot of people that i havent seen before come to here to attack me again and agian.

i cant understand the way of how u mapping . i cant understand that u all always want to find something to start drama in all my map

i think 99% of u think my map is shit. i cant deny. i still just study from day to day.

i never use style to express mapping
i just choose the best way in my mind to map a song

CWRU-RYU Li wrote:

FCed scratch part by only using left pinky finger. There are no other notes during that 2:16 period except a series of scratch notes and thus I really dont understand why people complain about it.

victorica_db wrote:

几天没看，这么快就5页了。
希望早日修好皿的按键位图把

Choofers wrote:

CWRU-RYU Li wrote:

FCed scratch part by only using left pinky finger. There are no other notes during that 2:16 period except a series of scratch notes and thus I really dont understand why people complain about it.

replay pls

stupud man wrote:

Name one.

stupud man wrote:

BMS charts may have scratches in them (the game also supports doublescratching!!!), but not a long stream of inconsistently spaced ones.

Loctav wrote:

A bug in the game engine won't make the map self unrankable, since the map self is not bugged.

I don't even know why this is turned into a problem.

shionelove wrote:

IIDXやってる身からすると、議論の種になっているスクラッチがどうこう以前にパターン全体がバラバラで音を詰め込みすぎててすごく叩きにくいけど、誰もそこは指摘しないのね

richardfeder wrote:

-snip-

stupud man wrote:

richardfeder wrote:

-snip-

@RYU Li
I understand that the mapper can take my opinion with a grain of salt. However this mapper (from what I can see and had seen in the past) has a history of refusing to take decent advice. I don't know if I (or others) seemed like trying to shove opinions down someone's throat but I know that I was only trying to get my point across in the most civil way possible without being outright ignored or given a lazily thought out response. There are people in this thread that I can definitely name that have absolutely no experience in somewhat difficult 8k games/charts/maps. However, there are others I can name that at least possess the common sense to determine whether or not some ideas/opinions hold their ground. But yeah absolutely anybody with no experience whatsoever shouldn't be here.

stupud man wrote:

richardfeder wrote:

-snip-

Honestly yeah you're right. Was acting a bit cocky sorry.

You bring up some really good points that I couldn't really see before (eg. BMS charts having similar if not worse scratch patterns on the insane scale). So is this going to change my opinion on the pattern? Slightly, but no. I'm still going to uphold my opinion about the pattern being underrated and hard to time (for example, when I was scratching the first section, the notes speed up just after the 5th scratch or so so I ended up hitting the majority of the next scratches late, almost missing a couple of i didn't catch myself). That being said, I'm not going to try to shove my opinion down someone's throat (I feel like I may have made an attempt at that today, sorry). I may respond to someone if I feel like what they say has something wrong with it, but that's where I'm trying to make it as far as it goes.

victorica_db wrote:

i think i answer the mod..why do u say i didnt answer?

-Kamikaze- wrote:

victorica_db wrote:

i think i answer the mod..why do u say i didnt answer?

Well you did after DQ, apart from answering stupud man's post vaguely, welp.
Anyway, I'll let others decide what to do here, I'm not sure myself