replay plsCWRU-RYU Li wrote:
FCed scratch part by only using left pinky finger. There are no other notes during that 2:16 period except a series of scratch notes and thus I really dont understand why people complain about it.
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nora2r - B.B.K.K.B.K.K. (Extended Mix) [OsuMania]
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No one said the map is bad, I think the map is good outside of that one part. And just because people can hit that part, doesn't mean that the part should stay like it is (I hit the part at least half of the time that I played it).
My binding for BMS is SDF<sp>JKL plus scratch with A. with alternative binding on H however I'm finally able to FC the part from 02:14:622 - to 02:21:681 - by jacking using index finger on H-key.
CWRU-RYU Li
Replay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDBB3Kw3 ... e=youtu.be You know I don't like people who don't even play 8k and come to complain about the arrangemts just because they can't play it well.Choofers wrote:
replay plsCWRU-RYU Li wrote:
FCed scratch part by only using left pinky finger. There are no other notes during that 2:16 period except a series of scratch notes and thus I really dont understand why people complain about it.
IIDXやってる身からすると、議論の種になっているスクラッチがどうこう以前にパターン全体がバラバラで音を詰め込みすぎててすごく叩きにくいけど、誰もそこは指摘しないのね
Charts that have "long streams of inconsistently spaced scratches". I can list more if you want.stupud man wrote:
Name one.
★4 Here we go！ (TM edit) (Awesomeman / obj: あーさん)
★7 HE is an Energizer (7keys sarather) (Mr.ABC) -> after about 800 combos
★14 SAMBISTA -sarambista- (DOT96 / obj.D-BLUE) -> right in the middle
some easier examples:
☆10 niKu (HYPER) (TOMA v.s. DJ Saw-Low) (8th dan #1) -> around 900~1000
☆12 Freja (SP ANOTHER) (rider) (10th dan #2)
osu!mania also supports doublescratching, but not fully, and we all know that mapper shouldn't be responsible for it. As Loctav said,stupud man wrote:
BMS charts may have scratches in them (the game also supports doublescratching!!!), but not a long stream of inconsistently spaced ones.
Loctav wrote:
A bug in the game engine won't make the map self unrankable, since the map self is not bugged.
I don't even know why this is turned into a problem.
叩きにくいけど、できる人はたくさんいますと思います。このパターンが昔からあって、今までも使っていますが、私はどうして今さら彼たちがこのパターンについて文句を言うか全然わかりません。shionelove wrote:
IIDXやってる身からすると、議論の種になっているスクラッチがどうこう以前にパターン全体がバラバラで音を詰め込みすぎててすごく叩きにくいけど、誰もそこは指摘しないのね
CWRU-RYU Li
If anyone has any suggestion, tell the mapper and don't be like "this is what I think is subtle so u have to change it". Mappers have the right to take advice with grain of salt. Besides, some players who don't know 8k and don't even play 8k should really shut their mouth. This is not a place to pick a quarrel.
Honestly yeah you're right. Was acting a bit cocky sorry.richardfeder wrote:
-snip-
You bring up some really good points that I couldn't really see before (eg. BMS charts having similar if not worse scratch patterns on the insane scale). So is this going to change my opinion on the pattern? Slightly, but no. I'm still going to uphold my opinion about the pattern being underrated and hard to time (for example, when I was scratching the first section, the notes speed up just after the 5th scratch or so so I ended up hitting the majority of the next scratches late, almost missing a couple of i didn't catch myself). That being said, I'm not going to try to shove my opinion down someone's throat (I feel like I may have made an attempt at that today, sorry). I may respond to someone if I feel like what they say has something wrong with it, but that's where I'm trying to make it as far as it goes.
@RYU Li
I understand that the mapper can take my opinion with a grain of salt. However this mapper (from what I can see and had seen in the past) has a history of refusing to take decent advice. I don't know if I (or others) seemed like trying to shove opinions down someone's throat but I know that I was only trying to get my point across in the most civil way possible without being outright ignored or given a lazily thought out response. There are people in this thread that I can definitely name that have absolutely no experience in somewhat difficult 8k games/charts/maps. However, there are others I can name that at least possess the common sense to determine whether or not some ideas/opinions hold their ground. But yeah absolutely anybody with no experience whatsoever shouldn't be here.
CWRU-RYU Li
stupud man wrote:
@RYU Lirichardfeder wrote:
-snip-
I understand that the mapper can take my opinion with a grain of salt. However this mapper (from what I can see and had seen in the past) has a history of refusing to take decent advice. I don't know if I (or others) seemed like trying to shove opinions down someone's throat but I know that I was only trying to get my point across in the most civil way possible without being outright ignored or given a lazily thought out response. There are people in this thread that I can definitely name that have absolutely no experience in somewhat difficult 8k games/charts/maps. However, there are others I can name that at least possess the common sense to determine whether or not some ideas/opinions hold their ground. But yeah absolutely anybody with no experience whatsoever shouldn't be here.
First, there is a long "history" of prejudice towards vic's maps. What's more important, mappers are not obligated to appreciate suggestions from others since what others think "decent" might not be "decent" to mappers. Things don't work like "since I gave u what I believe is decent so you mappers should be appreciated for that".
Thanks for your reply and I have a couple of points to say responding to not only you but all modders/QAT members.stupud man wrote:
Honestly yeah you're right. Was acting a bit cocky sorry.richardfeder wrote:
-snip-
You bring up some really good points that I couldn't really see before (eg. BMS charts having similar if not worse scratch patterns on the insane scale). So is this going to change my opinion on the pattern? Slightly, but no. I'm still going to uphold my opinion about the pattern being underrated and hard to time (for example, when I was scratching the first section, the notes speed up just after the 5th scratch or so so I ended up hitting the majority of the next scratches late, almost missing a couple of i didn't catch myself). That being said, I'm not going to try to shove my opinion down someone's throat (I feel like I may have made an attempt at that today, sorry). I may respond to someone if I feel like what they say has something wrong with it, but that's where I'm trying to make it as far as it goes.
No one is trying to change your opinion or stop you from stating your points. No. In fact we are glad to see that different people have different approaches and understandings of this song/certain patterns. That's why we have different styles of mapping and diverse patterns and we can all equally enjoy them. The point is that you shouldn't force someone else to follow your interpretation of music/understanding of patterning. As I said again and again, patterning is very subjective and you cannot simply say patterning in one way or another is a "good idea" or "bad idea". What you think as "decent" might seems to be "none sense" for mappers who harbor totally different approach of mapping from yours. In this case, victorica insists on his approach, and his approach is not only technically correct, follows the rhythm closely, but is also playable. And now numbers of people argue for a change just because they don't like it(what even more ridiculous is that they don't like it because they think they cannot hit it properly).
Also many comments show no respect to victorica_db himself. How could he write so much if he never seriously take any advice? He also listed enough reasons to support his patterns and no modder should ignore that: 1) This pattern connect smoothly with previous pattern; 2) Scratch pattern is his approach of expressing that specific part; 3) It's nothing mind-blowing or something completely out of contorl(I also listed some BMS charts utilizing this pattern) and 4) It doesn't violate any RC. This is a very formal and serious respond. If this is not the respond modders/QAT members asking for, then I don't know what should vicotica post anymore.
CWRU-RYU Li
Well the disqualification happened mainly because victorica did not answer the mods or posted in a way that made it look like he just shoved those posts aside, as far as I know at least. And like PC said, it's not about forcing your will on someone else, at that point this is just wrong.
But at the same time, while the scratch part is mapped correctly, I feel like if that's a major issue to most players (I can safely S this map, but I have to rush earlier notes to FC that jack to be honest), you could at least try to simplify it a tiny bit for the sake of players.
Also PC's point of there being charts with this type of scratch in BMS: Sure, there may've been times where this is used, but that doesn't make it any better, in fact if something has been done somewhere else and it's not good, we should avoid using it elsewhere.This is not in a context of this map in particular.
Honestly, I think I would be okay if victorica didn't change anything at all (though I would really like his post to be less agressive, oh well), but if you want to make that part more accessible to average 8K player, I'm going to suggest some alternatives of what you can do to make this part more accessible once more:
First of all, my opinion on the scratch part: It's bearable, but you either have to master dual scratch, or rush a bit to give yourself some time. Even then you are likely to break on the following LN if you're not careful.
First suggestion: What I suggested before - You can turn 02:19:740 (139740|0,139828|0,139916|0,140004|0,140093|0,140181|0) - into either a LN that ends on 02:20:181 - to mark sounds currently mapped with a jack. This will remove the need to vibro with your pinky to hit it, while still having to rotate the scratch on controller.
Second suggestion: The problem of this part being very hard to nail also lies in the following LN which is really close after the scratch jack which is very hard both for KB and BM players. I think that you could 02:20:269 (140269|0) - into a normal note, to simulate the mapped sound by making it play like a sample on DJ console - click the button and sample plays
Do whatever you want with those suggestions, but please, try to requalify it, I don't want to see another 8K map getting graveyarded for something as minor as this.
To PC: Please translate this post to victorica directly, I feel like you can convey what I mean better than if he would use a translator to translate this post.
But at the same time, while the scratch part is mapped correctly, I feel like if that's a major issue to most players (I can safely S this map, but I have to rush earlier notes to FC that jack to be honest), you could at least try to simplify it a tiny bit for the sake of players.
Also PC's point of there being charts with this type of scratch in BMS: Sure, there may've been times where this is used, but that doesn't make it any better, in fact if something has been done somewhere else and it's not good, we should avoid using it elsewhere.This is not in a context of this map in particular.
Honestly, I think I would be okay if victorica didn't change anything at all (though I would really like his post to be less agressive, oh well), but if you want to make that part more accessible to average 8K player, I'm going to suggest some alternatives of what you can do to make this part more accessible once more:
First of all, my opinion on the scratch part: It's bearable, but you either have to master dual scratch, or rush a bit to give yourself some time. Even then you are likely to break on the following LN if you're not careful.
First suggestion: What I suggested before - You can turn 02:19:740 (139740|0,139828|0,139916|0,140004|0,140093|0,140181|0) - into either a LN that ends on 02:20:181 - to mark sounds currently mapped with a jack. This will remove the need to vibro with your pinky to hit it, while still having to rotate the scratch on controller.
Second suggestion: The problem of this part being very hard to nail also lies in the following LN which is really close after the scratch jack which is very hard both for KB and BM players. I think that you could 02:20:269 (140269|0) - into a normal note, to simulate the mapped sound by making it play like a sample on DJ console - click the button and sample plays
Do whatever you want with those suggestions, but please, try to requalify it, I don't want to see another 8K map getting graveyarded for something as minor as this.
To PC: Please translate this post to victorica directly, I feel like you can convey what I mean better than if he would use a translator to translate this post.
Topic Starter
i think i answer the mod..why do u say i didnt answer?
i have seen ur suggestion
both of them is not achieve what i think and i think it is not the best thing to express that part
ill still keep it
i have seen ur suggestion
both of them is not achieve what i think and i think it is not the best thing to express that part
ill still keep it
Well you did after DQ, apart from answering stupud man's post vaguely, welp.victorica_db wrote:
i think i answer the mod..why do u say i didnt answer?
Anyway, I'll let others decide what to do here, I'm not sure myself
Topic Starter
i have said " i wont change that part" ...-Kamikaze- wrote:
Well you did after DQ, apart from answering stupud man's post vaguely, welp.victorica_db wrote:
i think i answer the mod..why do u say i didnt answer?
Anyway, I'll let others decide what to do here, I'm not sure myself
You misunderstood me, I'm going to just wait and see what happens, I don't really want to be held responsible for any decisions, I'll be back if this gets rebubbled I guess
Topic Starter
ok.
recheck
04:35:975 - and 04:36:240 - wrong placed snare, move them to 04:36:063 - and 04:36:152 -
01:25:210 (85210|0) - lost cymbal
well, that's all, the patterns was already good, just a little minor thing
i will rebubble them after you fix the hitsound, good luck
04:35:975 - and 04:36:240 - wrong placed snare, move them to 04:36:063 - and 04:36:152 -
01:25:210 (85210|0) - lost cymbal
well, that's all, the patterns was already good, just a little minor thing
i will rebubble them after you fix the hitsound, good luck
so uh, rip fun jacks..? :I
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