I'd list that under 'wider variety of song choices'EtienneXC wrote:
Is "less anime maps" an option?
Tbh, while I was making the poll, I thought about making an option for 'less TV sizes' (I mean, it is a popular opinion) but decided against it
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Things you'd like to see most in ranked mania maps? (poll)
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Things (or changes) you'd like to see most in ranked mania maps
Total votes: 688
Topic Starter
Tbh, while I was making the poll, I thought about making an option for 'less TV sizes' (I mean, it is a popular opinion) but decided against it
=A= there's no way to reduce anime size getting ranked, or SDVX size, or BMS size, or any size like L M S XL etc etc huehue
https://gist.github.com/peppy/1287114f461bacf88bffExUsagi wrote:
=A= there's no way to reduce anime size getting ranked
rip mirro tatoe
this.Shoegazer wrote:
Most of these are extremely generic rhythm game music (SDVX comes to mind) or anime OPs which are also generic in structure. Music like breakcore, progressive rock/metal (though this is somewhat understandable, given how bad the osu editor is and time signature bullshit, that's a suggestion I'd like to see) and classical are all genres that are completely overlooked by the mania community.
OMG ITS HAPPENING!!1! MOM GET THE CAMERA!1!1!!1
i was expecting that since like.. 1 year-ish ago o.o
edit : my tv size map not getting sued heueeeeee
i was expecting that since like.. 1 year-ish ago o.o
edit : my tv size map not getting sued heueeeeee
SDVX and TV size maps is easier to rank compared to others in o!m. ;-;
need more SDVX edit maps
all keys ? of course
all keys ? of course
TFW there are less count of modders that can mod marathon maps.Rilene wrote:
SDVX and TV size maps is easier to rank compared to others in o!m. ;-;
Finding o!m marathon modders is hard as finding twin bananas from a pile of bananas.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaSpectorDG wrote:
need more SDVX edit maps
all keys ? of course
- Less anime / TV Size / SDVX maps
- Less overweighted maps due to jumptrills
- More jack maps
- More freedom with mapping for ranked
- Easier way to rank marathon maps
- More interesting higher star maps
- More maps that are actually good
etc etc it all makes sense
- Less overweighted maps due to jumptrills
- More jack maps
- More freedom with mapping for ranked
- Easier way to rank marathon maps
- More interesting higher star maps
- More maps that are actually good
etc etc it all makes sense
More marathon maps pls
also chiptune/fakebit
also chiptune/fakebit
WOOSHHHSpectorDG wrote:
need more SDVX edit maps
pls no
inb4 just 4K onlySpectorDG wrote:
all keys ? of course
my vote
More "anti-meta" keys ranked (any keymode excluding 4K or 7K) [like 5k or 6k]
Wider variety of song choices in mania maps [like remix song, DnB, nightcore song]
Higher quality of maps in general [like note amount, SV usage taht fit perfectly in the song]
other [mania map that only folow drum song. tbh i want to see maps something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/81166 again in osu.]
just letting out my opinion
please don't hate me for this >.<
More "anti-meta" keys ranked (any keymode excluding 4K or 7K) [like 5k or 6k]
Wider variety of song choices in mania maps [like remix song, DnB, nightcore song]
Higher quality of maps in general [like note amount, SV usage taht fit perfectly in the song]
other [mania map that only folow drum song. tbh i want to see maps something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/81166 again in osu.]
just letting out my opinion
please don't hate me for this >.<
"Wider variety of song choices in mania maps"
About this, I don't think this matter any at all as you can have any songs in osu!, even songs with inappropriate languages or sound.
About this, I don't think this matter any at all as you can have any songs in osu!, even songs with inappropriate languages or sound.
Most of the options can already be done (ones about having more hard maps, a larger variety of music, better charts, being able to rank anything that's not 4K/7K), it's really up to the community to decide whether or not they actually want to start the movement.
For the record I'm perfectly fine with TV size or 4K maps as long as they aren't 90% of ranked mania maps available. This may be an exaggeration but whatever. Also I'm sure that most of you already know what I'm fighting for as I've been going loud about it for the past year or so, while working on those mapsets as well. As for the variety of music, I'm all for it, but I don't feel confident enough myself to map stuff such as progressive rock and/or breakcore which may also be why there's not a lot of those maps going for rank. Pepole generally tend to map something that's easier to map/handle even if it means that it's less interesting. I will do what I can to help bring those maps to a ranked state, same with marathons for which cause I've also been loud for a bit, but I won't do much myself. Maybe changes to kudosu system to reward modding longer maps/higher amount of difficulties more would motivate pepole to mod tem, but that's not up to me. Like Shoegazer said, most of those options are very easy to execute, we just need more than few pepole to actually care.
While osu offers the freedom of having any song you'd like, there are not enough mappers or modders that want to take care of anything but the usual TV size or SDVX bollocks. That is the reason why this option is in the pollRilene wrote:
"Wider variety of song choices in mania maps"
About this, I don't think this matter any at all as you can have any songs in osu!, even songs with inappropriate languages or sound.
Something that I forgot to add. What I've learned being part of this community for a bit is that if you want something ranked (for example more anti-meta maps, more keysounded maps, more xxx genre songs) talking about it won't do shit. You have to step up and do it for yourself and at the same time do everything in your power to spread awareness. That's what I did with anti-meta project and you can see the results, pepole are starting to map more keymodes, a lot more 8K is getting ranked and even usage of term anti-meta itself as a referrence to 5/6/8/9K is something I've started/spread across with big enough effort.
That's also why I don't like threads like this one. Talking about how much you want xyz maps to get ranked is useless because pepole will nod and go on without doing much about it. Don't talk about the change. Be the change. I'll support you as much as I can.
That's also why I don't like threads like this one. Talking about how much you want xyz maps to get ranked is useless because pepole will nod and go on without doing much about it. Don't talk about the change. Be the change. I'll support you as much as I can.
Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
Make dumps rankable (ghost notes n stuff) as long as the chart plays well with the song.
Different rankings for key-set. Currently it's actually fucking stupid making you play all keys to be on par with rest, not that rank actually matters, but since it's already there, it kinda does.
Make dumps rankable (ghost notes n stuff) as long as the chart plays well with the song.
Different rankings for key-set. Currently it's actually fucking stupid making you play all keys to be on par with rest, not that rank actually matters, but since it's already there, it kinda does.
Dumps being rankable would be nice if used properly like key mapping, the example would be like the song has intense 1/2 on ending chorus, using 1/4 with hitsounds to emphasizing would be awesome.
Usual TV size or SDVX songs is too mainstream, I saw them almost everywhere in osu!mania beatmap listing.
Unless if it is like 7* on 7K or 6* on 4K then that would be something interesting or it is fully-hitsounded then that would be something unique.
Oh well, that's kinda right.Jole wrote:
While osu offers the freedom of having any song you'd like, there are not enough mappers or modders that want to take care of anything but the usual TV size or SDVX bollocks. That is the reason why this option is in the pollRilene wrote:
"Wider variety of song choices in mania maps"
About this, I don't think this matter any at all as you can have any songs in osu!, even songs with inappropriate languages or sound.
Usual TV size or SDVX songs is too mainstream, I saw them almost everywhere in osu!mania beatmap listing.
Unless if it is like 7* on 7K or 6* on 4K then that would be something interesting or it is fully-hitsounded then that would be something unique.
I want to rank by BMS map but no modders, even requested at modding queue.-Kamikaze- wrote:
That's also why I don't like threads like this one. Talking about how much you want xyz maps to get ranked is useless because pepole will nod and go on without doing much about it. Don't talk about the change. Be the change. I'll support you as much as I can.
I'm agree with kami's opinion. If you want to have more ranked maps that based on what you've choosed in the poll above you need to be the one who do that. I'm also have already started to map full length song and even try to rank it. But for me, it's a bit difficult to map outside 4k, 6k and 7k because of my lack of experience on playing other keys besides that.
And for dump maps I have to disagree, lots of them are fun tbh but it's not something I would like to see in ranked maps later on. Like using 4 notes for only kick sound and map 1/6 sound to 1/12 is not good and makes playing nonsense.
And for dump maps I have to disagree, lots of them are fun tbh but it's not something I would like to see in ranked maps later on. Like using 4 notes for only kick sound and map 1/6 sound to 1/12 is not good and makes playing nonsense.
Basically these are needed.Redon wrote:
- Consistency within and across diffs
- Difficulty balance, don't make the last third of the map twice as hard as the rest
- No LN spam/layering abuse, treat LN ends as a note of its own, pay attention to when a sound ends and what warrants an LN, also see above
- No SV that aren't sightreadable, look at Agka's guide on how to make them playable
The sad part of all this is that those should all be dealt with by BNs being more careful about what gets nominated. Of course, the other issue is that when someone else points out problems with those things, it's up to the mapper to make changes and fix their map.
Cuppp wrote:
Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
But we still have problem, if we remove this ranking criteria, it would have to affect other gamemode as well.Elementaires wrote:
Cuppp wrote:
Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
And isn't doesn't it requires 2 diff?
is anything going to change after this discussion
Maybe.Evening wrote:
is anything going to change after this discussion
Just maybe.
Or maybe not.
why people thinks ENHI rules should be removed anyway, osu! is not arcade game where 1 song can only have 1 diff (marathon are exception)..
people try to learn to basic with appropriate diff spread on each beatmap, removing this rule is simply nonsense..
people try to learn to basic with appropriate diff spread on each beatmap, removing this rule is simply nonsense..
what a shame ~Rilene wrote:
Maybe.Evening wrote:
is anything going to change after this discussion
Just maybe.
Or maybe not.
amenEvening wrote:
what a shame ~
Well, to be honest, agree.ExUsagi wrote:
why people thinks ENHI rules should be removed anyway, osu! is not arcade game where 1 song can only have 1 diff (marathon are exception)..
people try to learn to basic with appropriate diff spread on each beatmap, removing this rule is simply nonsense..
This is never gonna happen and if it does it's definitely the worst idea ever.Cuppp wrote:
Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
The difficulty-spread criteria is in fact the most important cause of osu having newbie players continuously coming in. This allows players from all skill levels to enjoys the particular song getting ranked by finding the appropriate difficulty.
Imagine how sad it is if you are a new player playing rhythm game for the first time and discover that all the songs you like only have one hard as hell diff, or if you are a pro player immigrating from other game finding all kinds of easy and boring maps (This actually happens a lot and that's why I vote for ranking harder maps).
Topic Starter
This thread wasn't created with the intent to change anything tbh :/ I was interested in the opinions that the mania players have about ranked maps and what they want from ranked maps.Evening wrote:
is anything going to change after this discussion
The argument about one diff maps is dumb. And not for the reason you guys might think.
This is osu!, a game where essentially anyone can open the editor and make maps. If we allowed single diffs to be rankable, what would happen is that we would be bombarded by hundreds of single difficulties ranging from the easiest all the way up to the hardest. The majority of mania players and mappers are unable to play or map ET level stuff, period. And that is why we will not suddenly be flooded by entirely Insane/ET level maps if we remove that rule. In fact, I'd say we'd have far more easy difficulties than hard ones. The real difference with the easy difficulties is that they would be relatively low quality compared to the harder difficulties, because most mappers capable of making hard diffs will stop making easier ones and allow the new mappers to cover that region of difficulty.
On top of that, osu! doesn't restrict you from mapping the same song someone else mapped. Find a song with only an Insane difficulty for it? Make an easier difficulty. Without requiring multiple difficulties per map it would be easy to fill difficulty gaps by mapping your own diff.
The strongest argument for keeping multiple diffs as a requirement in mapsets is for consistency in the ranked maps, and consistency within mapsets.
This is osu!, a game where essentially anyone can open the editor and make maps. If we allowed single diffs to be rankable, what would happen is that we would be bombarded by hundreds of single difficulties ranging from the easiest all the way up to the hardest. The majority of mania players and mappers are unable to play or map ET level stuff, period. And that is why we will not suddenly be flooded by entirely Insane/ET level maps if we remove that rule. In fact, I'd say we'd have far more easy difficulties than hard ones. The real difference with the easy difficulties is that they would be relatively low quality compared to the harder difficulties, because most mappers capable of making hard diffs will stop making easier ones and allow the new mappers to cover that region of difficulty.
On top of that, osu! doesn't restrict you from mapping the same song someone else mapped. Find a song with only an Insane difficulty for it? Make an easier difficulty. Without requiring multiple difficulties per map it would be easy to fill difficulty gaps by mapping your own diff.
The strongest argument for keeping multiple diffs as a requirement in mapsets is for consistency in the ranked maps, and consistency within mapsets.
In my opinion, going for GD is the best thing that you can do in this case. Keeping the rule for the good point of the consistency with the mapset, giving the oportunity to new mappers and of course, more focus on that dif because that will be the only dif that the guest mapper is doing. Dunno, might be just me.Bobbias wrote:
The argument about one diff maps is dumb. And not for the reason you guys might think.
This is osu!, a game where essentially anyone can open the editor and make maps. If we allowed single diffs to be rankable, what would happen is that we would be bombarded by hundreds of single difficulties ranging from the easiest all the way up to the hardest. The majority of mania players and mappers are unable to play or map ET level stuff, period. And that is why we will not suddenly be flooded by entirely Insane/ET level maps if we remove that rule. In fact, I'd say we'd have far more easy difficulties than hard ones. The real difference with the easy difficulties is that they would be relatively low quality compared to the harder difficulties, because most mappers capable of making hard diffs will stop making easier ones and allow the new mappers to cover that region of difficulty.
On top of that, osu! doesn't restrict you from mapping the same song someone else mapped. Find a song with only an Insane difficulty for it? Make an easier difficulty. Without requiring multiple difficulties per map it would be easy to fill difficulty gaps by mapping your own diff.
The strongest argument for keeping multiple diffs as a requirement in mapsets is for consistency in the ranked maps, and consistency within mapsets.
It will also speed up the ranking, 2 persons asking for mods > Only 1.
juankristal wrote:
In my opinion, going for GD is the best thing that you can do in this case. Keeping the rule for the good point of the consistency with the mapset, giving the oportunity to new mappers and of course, more focus on that dif because that will be the only dif that the guest mapper is doing. Dunno, might be just me.
It will also speed up the ranking, 2 persons asking for mods > Only 1.
Honestly, we have /some/ easier difficulties now, there are plenty of ranked and unranked stuff to go around for beginners to get used to the game on keymodes from 4K to 8K (especially 4K, and then 7K). Restricting people to NEEDing to cater for EVERY player for EVERY mapping they make is discouraging and causing many experienced mappers to not rank charts they do want to rank. Maybe noobies seeing all of 5+ star charts will clue them into the fact that anything below 4 stars is considered VERY easy in the world of VSRG, which could contribute to improving the culture of the game-mode. Consistency within a mapset doesn't really exist? Each difficulty is different from the others, that's the point of having them. The reason they are there is for new players to play them. Let's realize that there is nothing actually preventing a player from playing an insane difficulty beside the fact that they haven't played the game enough to be able to play it. In this sense, this ranking criteria is Pandering to new and inexperienced players. Guest Difficulties should not cause issue in this sense in terms of 'mapset consistency', which is a highly subjective criterion that is in need of both detailed definition and concise clarification of rankable and unrankable types of charts.
GD are infact a good way to introduce mappers to the mapping scene, but the GD in my opinion should be able to map any difficulty along with whatever difficulty the set's main mapper mapped. If pandering to those that 'can't play the ridiculous hard charts and are being unfairly excluded' then why not require a beginner or a normal difficulty, and nothing else?
'It will also speed up the ranking, 2 persons asking for mods > Only 1'
This is nearly laughable in the sense that the more mappers involved in a mapset, the larger number of sittings there are required to respond to mods for differing individuals and the number of interactions and communications between these individuals increases dramatically.
SPOILERAnyways, since this will never change, I'll just say that this decision has been, is currently, and will forever cause quality, talented, (and most importantly, experienced) mappers to be discouraged from trying to rank osu!mania charts, further promoting disunity in the osu!mania gamemode (and likely detracting from general revenue from supporter purchases and otherwise).
Sorry for posting personal opinions. Feel free to moderate them out or just remove my post entirely if I don't do it myself.
I'm glad at least someone else gets my point, although I still think your downplaying just how many easier difficulties we have. I should also point out that autoconverts provide literally thousands of easy diffs for newcomers to practice on before moving on to real mania maps. As much as I'm against them being ranked, I certainly see the value they add to the game mode in terms of beginner material.
I admitted that the consistency thing was at least a valid argument, but even that I feel is a weak one. Like tristan said, consistency is poorly defined. Heck, it's honestly not even present in many mapsets with a single creator, either. And personally, while I think it can be interesting to see a mapset where each difficulty feels consistent with the others, sometimes it's not possible, and it shouldn't be forced in any way either.
Allowing single diffs to be ranked would also allow new mappers to get their maps ranked faster, since a new mapper currently still needs to make 2 rankable diffs as a bare minimum. Unless they already have a fair bit of skill at the game, new mappers will generally focus on easy or normal level diffs since that's often where their skill range lies.
I admitted that the consistency thing was at least a valid argument, but even that I feel is a weak one. Like tristan said, consistency is poorly defined. Heck, it's honestly not even present in many mapsets with a single creator, either. And personally, while I think it can be interesting to see a mapset where each difficulty feels consistent with the others, sometimes it's not possible, and it shouldn't be forced in any way either.
Allowing single diffs to be ranked would also allow new mappers to get their maps ranked faster, since a new mapper currently still needs to make 2 rankable diffs as a bare minimum. Unless they already have a fair bit of skill at the game, new mappers will generally focus on easy or normal level diffs since that's often where their skill range lies.
Never encourage the autoconverts. It's a trap in every way shape and form and Bobbias I know you know that. Standard mappers will only play those charts because they want to 'play the songs they know and love' which is often grotesque weeaboo songs and then get accustomed to playing autoconverts (and their patterns) (and mainly the 4K key-mode) and everything else.
You know what I want to see in mania?
An appropriately constructed method of introducing standard players to the mania mode (and VSRG).
Not 'download the mania songs'. Not 'get used to the mode by playing autoconverts'. Not https://osu.ppy.sh/s/77753
Give them something along the lines of the O2Jam intro chart, or an explanation of the VSRG genre or SOMETHING that can get curious osu! fans formally introduced to the mania game-mode.
This will help more than any individual trying to shape mania for the better will in the foreseeable future.
/rant end
You know what I want to see in mania?
An appropriately constructed method of introducing standard players to the mania mode (and VSRG).
Not 'download the mania songs'. Not 'get used to the mode by playing autoconverts'. Not https://osu.ppy.sh/s/77753
Give them something along the lines of the O2Jam intro chart, or an explanation of the VSRG genre or SOMETHING that can get curious osu! fans formally introduced to the mania game-mode.
This will help more than any individual trying to shape mania for the better will in the foreseeable future.
/rant end