Let me summarize this topic
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Can someone be my osu coach?
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Jakachan plays a musical instrument.FlyingKebab wrote:
I'm not saying that the gradual method is bad in any way, but you shouldn't shun the NF method as useless either.
You need to learn rhythm to learn the game. If you have good rhythm, NF could work. If you don't, go gradual.
Mashing is just that, absence of rhythm.
Nyoko wrote:
So I should give upB1rd wrote:
Some people just don't have any talent, and no amount of stickied threads or playing more will make them better than the players who play a lot and have talent.?
you're more talented than meNyoko wrote:
I haev dedcided to give up ;c
if you give up you're wasting all of your talent
The infuriating fact is that you have ZERO proof for that statement, please don't pull facts out of your ass, or at least don't make them widely out of context. They didn't use NF until they were Top 100, maybe when they were 60k like everyone else.FlyingKebab wrote:
There are people in the top hundreds that used this method to get better
65-70% is horrible and just mashing 99% of the time.FlyingKebab wrote:
Err.. I mean't NF something that you can at least get 65-70% + acc, NF'ing Big Black wont or at least shouldn't give you anything. But 65-70% range songs will give you good challenge that you will eventually overcome.
There's ZERO challenge in a map you can't remotely play well with at all. At least provide a realistic 80-90% accuracy scenario for challenging maps, at that point you're actually getting something out of it.
65-70% accuracy with NF mod is close to worthless in terms of what you can gain from a map, unless it's a stream practice map.
if you give up you will never be good.
it helps so much to have a fundamental understanding of how beats and metric structure workRaneFire wrote:
You need to learn rhythm to learn the game
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it. You won't get better by repeatedly doing something wrong.FlyingKebab wrote:
I swear in one year I will be one of the guys that manages something with NF and then I will have the privilege of writing: They said I was wrong, well it seems they were wrong themselves. There are people in the top hundreds that used this method to get better:Woobowiz wrote:
That's horrible advice and will teach him nothing but how to mash through a 5-star map with NF mod. A better method than yours is to cycle between maps he can A/B-rank consistently. Then turn down the difficulty just a little and go for FCs.And I don't remember a few misses with a B as in a map you can barely pass. A barely passable map is the one you actually BARELY survive.JAKACHAN wrote:
Also, the fact that you played songs you couldn't beat with nofail is actually the smartest thing you can do to improve. Most people think they have to play songs they can pass to improve but really playing what you can't or can barely pass is the best way to move forward.
I'm not saying that the gradual method is bad in any way, but you shouldn't shun the NF method as useless either.
two weeks ago i couldn't even get 30% accuracy on eighto and i couldn't even see the circles in time. After playing it for like 300 times, now i get 70% and i am able to play ar9.6 (could barely play ar9) thanks to eighto and i started practicint ar10 now, since one of my goals is to pass airman, nomodWoobowiz wrote:
That's horrible advice and will teach him nothing but how to mash through a 5-star map with NF mod. A better method than yours is to cycle between maps he can A/B-rank consistently. Then turn down the difficulty just a little and go for FCs.FlyingKebab wrote:
Put NF on and spam 5 star maps for a week, come back to your previous difficult maps too see how much you have improved, if you didn't FC on your first try then that's another week of NF, trust me this is the fastest way of improving. But you will need to fine tune some Things later since you will have rushed good reading and aim.
(and yes i have memorized the beatmap, so what? My aim has improved drastically and my rank skyrocketed in the past 3 days, gained like 150pp. Insane...)
The difference between 30% acc and 70% acc after 2 weeks of playing a map is nothing compared to the difference between 70% acc and 90%+ acc. Mashing is still mashing, going from 30% to 70% just means you hit more notes, it doesn't really prove much besides you can now react to that specific map with AR 10.MiloSx7 wrote:
two weeks ago i couldn't even get 30% accuracy on eighto and i couldn't even see the circles in time. After playing it for like 300 times, now i get 70% and i am able to play ar9.6 (could barely play ar9) thanks to eighto and i started practicint ar10 now, since one of my goals is to pass airman, nomod
(and yes i have memorized the beatmap, so what? My aim has improved drastically and my rank skyrocketed in the past 3 days, gained like 150pp. Insane...)
And I don't mean to be condescending, but.....an average gain of 50 pp at that rank isn't extraordinary, in fact it is ordinary, regardless of what map you "practiced" on. In fact, not too long ago when I was at that range, it was common to suddenly spike 100-150 pp in a single day.
But if you insist this is the way for you to "improve", you could try out Existence instead of Eighto, see you at the 4 digit rankings :^)
eighto is easy to read hard to keep up with
I'm sure woobowiz knows what's up when it comes to the fastest way of improving. I mean, you can tell us to trust you all you want, but achieving 2k In 6 months really kinda makes woobowiz more credible when it comes to this topic.FlyingKebab wrote:
I swear in one year I will be one of the guys that manages something with NF and then I will have the privilege of writing: They said I was wrong, well it seems they were wrong themselves. There are people in the top hundreds that used this method to get better:Woobowiz wrote:
That's horrible advice and will teach him nothing but how to mash through a 5-star map with NF mod. A better method than yours is to cycle between maps he can A/B-rank consistently. Then turn down the difficulty just a little and go for FCs.And I don't remember a few misses with a B as in a map you can barely pass. A barely passable map is the one you actually BARELY survive.JAKACHAN wrote:
Also, the fact that you played songs you couldn't beat with nofail is actually the smartest thing you can do to improve. Most people think they have to play songs they can pass to improve but really playing what you can't or can barely pass is the best way to move forward.
I'm not saying that the gradual method is bad in any way, but you shouldn't shun the NF method as useless either.
I don't necessarily agree with this point, but I agree that using NF is not the way to improve.cheezstik wrote:
I'm sure woobowiz knows what's up when it comes to the fastest way of improving. I mean, you can tell us to trust you all you want, but achieving 2k In 6 months really kinda makes woobowiz more credible when it comes to this topic.
Also, off topic, but holy shit, the third electrician guy just came to my place, and now I actually have internet. Is this reality?
He has 32K plays in 6 months what do you expect? However Playing is still the way you get better at anything.cheezstik wrote:
I'm sure woobowiz knows what's up when it comes to the fastest way of improving. I mean, you can tell us to trust you all you want, but achieving 2k In 6 months really kinda makes woobowiz more credible when it comes to this topic.
You'll be one of those guys who manage to do something with <80% accuracy and have everyone aknowledge that you passed the song but not in a "respect this guy" way. They'll be like "look at this masher".FlyingKebab wrote:
I swear in one year I will be one of the guys that manages something with NF
Hi,
I'm a relatively new player and very inexperienced compared to most of you. Even so, I believe I can contribute to this thread. I'd like to say that I believe there's more than one way to skin a cat. As someone who has been and still is fairly consistent in improving almost everyday most of my plays have been repeat after repeat on maps I can't/couldn't clear for the purpose of playing at the edge of my abilites. I also find several maps that I believe I can FC, add them to a list and practice them several times until they are done => remove from list and add new ones. Then there's a lot of reflection going on, how do I approach these patterns? Do I generally press too late/early? Should I try pressing my keys at a different angle? I don't believe mindlessly playing more and more is a way to approach the matter of improvement. This has been demonstrated time after time in several other games/sports. People with insane amount of time played can range from pro's to beginner level. Talent aside, I think it's mostly about how you approach things in general that will determine if you perform well.
I'm a relatively new player and very inexperienced compared to most of you. Even so, I believe I can contribute to this thread. I'd like to say that I believe there's more than one way to skin a cat. As someone who has been and still is fairly consistent in improving almost everyday most of my plays have been repeat after repeat on maps I can't/couldn't clear for the purpose of playing at the edge of my abilites. I also find several maps that I believe I can FC, add them to a list and practice them several times until they are done => remove from list and add new ones. Then there's a lot of reflection going on, how do I approach these patterns? Do I generally press too late/early? Should I try pressing my keys at a different angle? I don't believe mindlessly playing more and more is a way to approach the matter of improvement. This has been demonstrated time after time in several other games/sports. People with insane amount of time played can range from pro's to beginner level. Talent aside, I think it's mostly about how you approach things in general that will determine if you perform well.
i dont think nf is useless, but you should use it sparingly. Using it too often on maps (especially jump maps) that you can barely get a 80%+ on can screw up ur aim. However I think its good to do it once in a while and alternating between practice and NFing the hard ones (95% practice, 5% NF) and how you practice is really up to yourself. I think challenging yourself is the best way to improve and watching ur own replays to see what skill you need to work on.
NF should really only be used if you're reading the map alright but struggling with high-drain. NFing maps you can't read or play will only pay off if you're able to figure out the maps without memorizing them simply by exposure, and that takes monstrous reading potential.
And now you're lying to yourself. Or you're just attention
Most likely the latter.
"Play more." - Every advice giver in every Gameplay & Rankings thread ever.FlyingKebab wrote:
He has 32K plays in 6 months what do you expect? However Playing is still the way you get better at anything.cheezstik wrote:
I'm sure woobowiz knows what's up when it comes to the fastest way of improving. I mean, you can tell us to trust you all you want, but achieving 2k In 6 months really kinda makes woobowiz more credible when it comes to this topic.
People just get lazy so they just stick it in there so they feel like they did something.cheezstik wrote:
"Play more." - Every advice giver in every Gameplay & Rankings thread ever.
In this particular instance FlyingKebab is correct. Woobsie's done good work, but he's had to work hard for it.
working hard doesn't mean you will get good. you have to play the right maps and have talent too.
Maybe because that's literally the only thing you can do to improve? You aren't going to improve by reading the forums or watching other people play, unlike a bunch of other games where there's actually strategies and things to be learned.cheezstik wrote:
"Play more." - Every advice giver in every Gameplay & Rankings thread ever.
Well, yeah.B1rd wrote:
working hard doesn't mean you will get good. you have to play the right maps and have talent too.
o/
Well, I didn't even know you could use the keyboard to play osu, and didn't know about tablets, so there are still some things that reading / asking on the forums will help.Rewben2 wrote:
Maybe because that's literally the only thing you can do to improve? You aren't going to improve by reading the forums or watching other people play, unlike a bunch of other games where there's actually strategies and things to be learned.cheezstik wrote:
"Play more." - Every advice giver in every Gameplay & Rankings thread ever.
Always challenge yourself every day. That's what I do. Or do you want me to come and play some multi with you?
I guess that's true, there are a few "advantageous" things you can learn like disabling aero, finding out about skins etc. but it still comes down to playing more, there's no tricks to itcheezstik wrote:
Well, I didn't even know you could use the keyboard to play osu, and didn't know about tablets, so there are still some things that reading / asking on the forums will help.
Yeah of course. Hate to admit it as well, but doing all this dirty DT farming which I found out about on the forums / reddit has indirectly improved me as well, I can't say my snapping and single tap speed haven't gotten better since I picked up DT, even though I initially started doing it for the easy pp.Rewben2 wrote:
I guess that's true, there are a few "advantageous" things you can learn like disabling aero, finding out about skins etc. but it still comes down to playing more, there's no tricks to itcheezstik wrote:
Well, I didn't even know you could use the keyboard to play osu, and didn't know about tablets, so there are still some things that reading / asking on the forums will help.
the things that you can learn from the forums aren't just tricks, it's major stuff that can really help you out, and isn't otherwise intuitive.Rewben2 wrote:
I guess that's true, there are a few "advantageous" things you can learn like disabling aero, finding out about skins etc. but it still comes down to playing more, there's no tricks to itcheezstik wrote:
Well, I didn't even know you could use the keyboard to play osu, and didn't know about tablets, so there are still some things that reading / asking on the forums will help.
Most of it is intuitive though. All of the top players got there through playing the game a lot. I can safely say that some of the best didn't read up on the game much at all. You aren't going to read something that will magically improve your gameplay by a large amount, things like disabling aero and for some using a skin are slight advantages.B1rd wrote:
the things that you can learn from the forums aren't just tricks, it's major stuff that can really help you out, and isn't otherwise intuitive.
disabling aero isn't minor. And getting a tablet and mech keyboard definitely isn't. Other stuff for example- don't NF spam maps and learn streams by practicing low bpm.
Does aero really make that much difference? How are people affording these $200 mechanical keyboards + tablets if their computer can't even run osu >_>.B1rd wrote:
disabling aero isn't minor. And getting a tablet and mech keyboard definitely isn't. Other stuff for example- don't NF spam maps and learn streams by practicing low bpm.
Uhh, yes it is. I've read multiple times people can't even tell the difference when aero is off/on. It's definitely not more than a minor improvement.B1rd wrote:
disabling aero isn't minor. And getting a tablet and mech keyboard definitely isn't. Other stuff for example- don't NF spam maps and learn streams by practicing low bpm.
Getting a tablet/mech keyboard is preference and not even osu! related. They are peripherals... That's like saying upgrading your computer is an advantage, it's not really fair to say that. I guess tablet is something valid because some people don't know of their existence, same kind of goes to mechs too. But still.
The way of practising is meh... Anyone can really figure that out on their own, but I guess if you need to be told "practice what you want to improve at" then sure you can consider that something learned from foruming.
I's like to add that every method wil work differently for each person. For example NF might not work for a majority but it works for some people. It's kind of a 50/50 thing. However gradual improvement works for the majority of people so it is accepted to be an undeniably working method.
I would hardly consider it improving if it's not an FC with at least 97 or 98% acc. Hell, even 96% acc means I mashed on at least one part of the song.FlyingKebab wrote:
I's like to add that every method wil work differently for each person. For example NF might not work for a majority but it works for some people. It's kind of a 50/50 thing. However gradual improvement works for the majority of people so it is accepted to be an undeniably working method.
No Failing is trying to obtain better reading and or motor skills faster than playing easier songs. No Fails goal is general skill and not accuracy directly, however if you go back to the maps you couldn't get more then lets say 90% because of difficulty then you will have an easier time reading the map because it will pale in difficulty in comparison to what had been playing for lets say a few weeks. And then as I mentioned, you will be able to hit the notes but you will need to fine tune your newly obtained aim so you actually hit them to the beat and etc. BUT you will still be hitting the things you couldn't hit. Practicing getting better accuracy on a song you know you can survive and hit all the notes albeit not perfectly is easier than practicing accuracy AND aim on a map you can't fully complete without too much stress and the likes.Woobowiz wrote:
I would hardly consider it improving if it's not an FC with at least 97 or 98% acc. Hell, even 96% acc means I mashed on at least one part of the song.FlyingKebab wrote:
I's like to add that every method wil work differently for each person. For example NF might not work for a majority but it works for some people. It's kind of a 50/50 thing. However gradual improvement works for the majority of people so it is accepted to be an undeniably working method.
And this comes down to personal preference, either you try to play stuff slowly and not lose your fine 97%+ acc, or you ramp up the challenge and go for a faster and different approach of getting better at just completing maps without the goal of perfection at that time. Then you stop at the point you want to lets say 5 star since you survive all of them. And then you start fine-tuning all the other things like accuracy or other problems like stream stability you might have at that time.
In nearly every case, if you need to turn on no-fail then the map is too hard for you and you shouldn't even attempt it yet.
I couldn't play anything 3.5< stars then I NF'ed 4.5-4.8 for 1 week and i could with bad acc survive most 4.0 - 4.3 maps, now if i try hard enough i get 95%+ acc (without training for it) on those maps. Now I am NF'ing 4.9-5.6 stars so I would be able to do 4.5-5.0 without failing and in my personal case I will stop once I can not die till 5.5 to start perfecting my plays. I am rushing aim and reading in exchange for my accuracy and other stability things. BUT I will work on those once I can pass the limit I am aiming for.buny wrote:
In nearly every case, if you need to turn on no-fail then the map is too hard for you and you shouldn't even attempt it yet.
EDIT: I am more satisfied in passing a hard map than passing an easier map with good acc.
Anyways there is not point in discussing this any further tbh. It's the same thing over and over again.