something like that already exists in the way that more notes means more acc pp
Well, if it exists, it's still not enough to make me play longer maps and struggle on them for better acc. Because it isn't worth the pain. Still getting more pp if I DT some random TVsize map. Time spent/pp rate is better.silmarilen wrote:
something like that already exists in the way that more notes means more acc pp
It has been discussed some pages ago. The example was the val0108 maps, especially the 260+ bpm ones. They don't have streams, but have extreme spacing, yet they are not even weighted correctly. For eg. if you SS the With a Dance Number, you won't even get 250pp, which is sad, because the map is around the difficulty of a HRHD Remote Control. Same with Scarlet Rose, Talent Shredder, No39, YuYuMetal, etc.iaceo wrote:
Hmm, let me start out by saying.. This might just be due to my personal playstyle but I dont believe "tricky spacing" is weighted enough right now..
me too i wonder are those separated note streams THAT overrrated?pielak wrote:
http://puu.sh/aaaEj.osz
why is this map 6.9 stars
i think this is the wrong thread to discuss thatxasuma wrote:
This is not necessarily a pp matter, but more of a balance thing. Which is sort of related to pp in the end.
Anywyas, imho , I believe that the drain for spinners should be re-done.
As of now, spinners will give a boost hp when the spinner is completed, and during the spinner itself, is common for your hp to drop (unless you spin extremely fast).
I think either the hp drain during spinners should be less.
or
The hp bonus you get when you complete a spinner should be distributed during the entirety of the spinner itself.
Why is this? Because of long spinners. Long spinners can be very hard to pass when the od is high enough. So hard in fact, that to me, is kind of silly.
Thoughts?
what? that's YOUR point not mine or the threads point loldennischan wrote:
I agree with bassist, and the main point is how longer maps can be rewarded, not how hp drain works during spinners.
you have to play harder maps... thats all... the insanes you are S'ing are probably not even really insanes just named such if you arent getting pp at your rank for them. fc 4+ star maps and you will definitely notice it.valixas125 wrote:
umm its all cool and all but is it normal to not get olmost any pp at all?
got 4 Hards On SS 3of them have more than 20k plays by other ppl and i got 1pp for them and i played a few normals with mods and got into the top 50 and got like 0pp no rly 0pp is it bc im lvl 95 or smth? played 3insanes got S's over 96-98% accuracy and i got 1pp is this seriuos or am i expiriencing a bug?
cuzz if this is seriuos am i susposed to go and play marathons or Breakcores or whatever u call it that goes above the insane?
On tp ar8(?)-ar10 is the same when you talk about the calculations. AR outside that range gives a bonus to aim. That's probably how it works here aswell.Omgforz wrote:
Is note density (relation between bpm and ar) a factor in the aim portion of the pp algorithm?
wow, well thats kinda lame, i wish i would be a low lvl account again, could farm PP all day bc lets be honest 50-60% of our lvl's are made out of fails or plays that didnt grant us pp... i could farm PP on lov lvls like baws :/ kinda unfair if u ask me atleast from my standpoints when i play with my friends who i recently talked into takin osu they gain PP for the maps we play and all theyre around 30-40lvls and i dont even tho its like 3stars and i havent played it yet and its really unfair in my eyes... the PP grantage shouldnt be decided by ur lvl it should be decided on skill alone and not on ur account level... though this game relied on skill appearantly i was wrong :c quite sad... i enjoyed this game quite much and the thrills of gettin more and more PP just got me hooked on the game, and now that i have to play 4-5star maps which are quite fu**in hard is throwing me off the game. lets be real alot of players well me bc im real competative gets hooked on the game just bc they keep winning over other players and now that i olmost cant get PP or i have to spend like 2hours on 1map to gain any PP whatsover makes me wanna cry i love this game so much but recently im playng it less and less because i dont ge the thrill of beating other ppl ofcourse u might think im just talkin crap and im sorry if but well im talkin outloud i might say so dont take this very seriuosly if what i wrote here does not apply to u, maybe im just 2noobish and cant play 4-5stars map like u guyz or smth well that just my oppinion...Bassist Vinyl wrote:
you have to play harder maps... thats all... the insanes you are S'ing are probably not even really insanes just named such if you arent getting pp at your rank for them. fc 4+ star maps and you will definitely notice it.valixas125 wrote:
umm its all cool and all but is it normal to not get olmost any pp at all?
got 4 Hards On SS 3of them have more than 20k plays by other ppl and i got 1pp for them and i played a few normals with mods and got into the top 50 and got like 0pp no rly 0pp is it bc im lvl 95 or smth? played 3insanes got S's over 96-98% accuracy and i got 1pp is this seriuos or am i expiriencing a bug?
cuzz if this is seriuos am i susposed to go and play marathons or Breakcores or whatever u call it that goes above the insane?
First, if you at least tried to use proper grammar and spacing that wall of text could be easily more readable.valixas125 wrote:
wow, well thats kinda lame, i wish i would be a low lvl account again, could farm PP all day bc lets be honest 50-60% of our lvl's are made out of fails or plays that didnt grant us pp... i could farm PP on lov lvls like baws :/ kinda unfair if u ask me atleast from my standpoints when i play with my friends who i recently talked into takin osu they gain PP for the maps we play and all theyre around 30-40lvls and i dont even tho its like 3stars and i havent played it yet and its really unfair in my eyes... the PP grantage shouldnt be decided by ur lvl it should be decided on skill alone and not on ur account level... though this game relied on skill appearantly i was wrong :c quite sad... i enjoyed this game quite much and the thrills of gettin more and more PP just got me hooked on the game, and now that i have to play 4-5star maps which are quite fu**in hard is throwing me off the game. lets be real alot of players well me bc im real competative gets hooked on the game just bc they keep winning over other players and now that i olmost cant get PP or i have to spend like 2hours on 1map to gain any PP whatsover makes me wanna cry i love this game so much but recently im playng it less and less because i dont ge the thrill of beating other ppl ofcourse u might think im just talkin crap and im sorry if but well im talkin outloud i might say so dont take this very seriuosly if what i wrote here does not apply to u, maybe im just 2noobish and cant play 4-5stars map like u guyz or smth well that just my oppinion...![]()
btw full comboed a 3.9 star map 97% accuracy got 1PP horay....(Got PP for like a 5star map tho
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Right now there's no pattern recognition at all. So you are right.erite-rastas wrote:
I have a feeling like it isn't recognizing some hard patterns
I'm prob wrong about this
Genki1000 wrote:
I'm not sure if I understood but if you want pp:valixas125 wrote:
lots of text
1. You can go here and full combo the maps that come out at the top
2. Just add DT to your plays
3. If you're really desperate, SS random OD4/5 normals with DTHR
The random pp you get while playing Normals most likely come from the pp bonus from having played many different maps. If you have about 1000 ranks, you get about 0.137pp each new map you play no matter how well you do (this bonus caps at 416.667pp, with 1000 ranks the bonus is 188.036pp).Tess wrote:
It's fucking retarded though that some Insanes give as much pp for an SS as Normals with HDDTHR, which are way easier. I know that I can FC 4-star Insanes until I die and won't get a single pp, but when I play DTHR Normals in multi with friends of a much lower rank than mine (90K-300K) I sometimes randomly gain 1pp, despite not even FCing it. I really think something should be done about this (or I'm just really misunderstanding the system).
There is only a very, very tiny fraction of people who lost pp. The whole thing has to keep balance to some degree, though, so it's not entirely unavoidable.Riince wrote:
im wondering why some people lost PP
http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/116146691278#_=_
This led me to believe it wouldn't happen.
eh. both me and my friend both lost pp i havent checked with my other friends but the fraction cant be that tiny if the one random friend i was talking to also had it happened. Probabilities.Tom94 wrote:
There is only a very, very tiny fraction of people who lost pp. The whole thing has to keep balance to some degree, though, so it's not entirely unavoidable.Riince wrote:
im wondering why some people lost PP
http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/116146691278#_=_
This led me to believe it wouldn't happen.
Taking a guess that it is songs under 1:30 since I lost 4 pp and do not have any under 1 min in my top 10.Maxis wrote:
Personally I went up 9pp, whereas my tops are fairly varied in length but most are around 1-2min.
My friend went down, though all of his tops are under 1 minute, so I'm pretty sure the pp reduction would only happen if you have really short tops.
brb going to FC unforgiving
I lostTom94 wrote:
There is only a very, very tiny fraction of people who lost pp. The whole thing has to keep balance to some degree, though, so it's not entirely unavoidable.
yopielak wrote:
I think you overdid it Tom. This seems like it's worth too much https://osu.ppy.sh/b/335628?m=0
# of circles.Novixion wrote:
Is the length scaling based on combo or drain time?
I noticed 4D got a huge buff but what about Kokou no Sousei and similar maps?
Their issue isn't map length, it's spacing bonuses for fast singles.Novixion wrote:
Is the length scaling based on combo or drain time?
I noticed 4D got a huge buff but what about Kokou no Sousei and similar maps?
# of hitobjects*Riince wrote:
# of circles.Novixion wrote:
Is the length scaling based on combo or drain time?
I noticed 4D got a huge buff but what about Kokou no Sousei and similar maps?
Whoever says that flashlight is easy if you know the map should shoot themselves.pielak wrote:
Hidden still overrated, >>>flashlight still underrated<<<
of course you need to be good to get ranks, how would it be fair if you could get there without being better or equal to the the "pro" people? That's just a ludicrous thing to complain about...Ivan wrote:
this game would be more fun if you could rank up constantly, i feel that ppv2 is only for pros since u can only get god pp if ur a pro
Im hoping for more buffs in other mods to gain pp like doubletimeway too stressful if u cant play anything
Tell me how ppv2 is at least equally farming based compared to ppv1.Ivan wrote:
i think ppv2 is just farming too
very true it would seempielak wrote:
I think you overdid it Tom. This seems like it's worth too much https://osu.ppy.sh/b/335628?m=0
Hidden still overated, flashlight still underated
It doesn't work unless everyone's refreshed already.Riince wrote:
play a map you havent played to easily set a new score and refresh your rank
personally i play a tv size [Easy] with nofail doubletime and wave my cursor around for 50 seconds and bam update
ayy lmaooTess wrote:
Whoever says that flashlight is easy if you know the map should shoot themselves.pielak wrote:
Hidden still overrated, >>>flashlight still underrated<<<
It's the hardest mod in the game and deserves to be treated as such.
No, it doesn't scale to it.. Resolution and Circle Size don't actually relate to each other.Drezi wrote:
As far as I know the whole map is scaled up so that CS becomes the same, and the distances get bigger. It's pretty fair imo, since you can do this on your own anyway - you can play with bigger hitcircles but bigger distances too by increasing your osu resolution.
You're just not used to cs5. Every map that comes out these days are either cs4 or cs5. You're so accustomed to it that anything 5 or higher is small to you. After I learned to play cs6.5 I think the star rating is actually balanced. The difficulty is mostly from just keeping a full combo on a long map with small circles..Priti wrote:
.
I agree with Zare, I made a few CS5 jump maps and their star rating is absurdly low compared to the actual difficulty due to the circle size being underrated.
Yes they do relate as long as you are not playing fullscreen and thus re-scaling resolutions which do not match your monitor back up.Priti wrote:
No, it doesn't scale to it.. Resolution and Circle Size don't actually relate to each other.Drezi wrote:
As far as I know the whole map is scaled up so that CS becomes the same, and the distances get bigger. It's pretty fair imo, since you can do this on your own anyway - you can play with bigger hitcircles but bigger distances too by increasing your osu resolution.
I agree with Zare, I made a few CS5 jump maps and their star rating is absurdly low compared to the actual difficulty due to the circle size being underrated.
shakiness is almost completely irrelevant for mouse players though. once they snap their cursor goes dead still.pooptartsonas wrote:
And the reason people try to play with larger areas is just that; the larger the area, the less of an impact shakiness has. Thus, I think on the higher end (cs6/7+) the circle size really tends to get underrated.
fair point though, this should definitely be considered. even low acc fcs of that are giving well above 300 pp just wowpooptartsonas wrote:
However, it causes problems in the extreme case (~2500+ combo). The scaling on long maps continues to increase, meaning that a player can gain a significant amount of pp from a map that they will practically never miss on, given that it is long enough. This is clearly seen in the world's end map that pielak referenced earlier. The pp awarded is pretty clearly too high. With that said, I think the changes worked wonders for anything in the 1000-1500 combo range. The bonus for map length simply needs to begin to taper off around 2k combo, and I think the algorithm will be in an excellent spot in terms of accounting for map length.
Eh, mouse players have other things to worry about than nervousness.Riince wrote:
shakiness is almost completely irrelevant for mouse players though. once they snap their cursor goes dead still.
i say almost because obviously shaking can have some effect on the snap itself but a hovering tablet player will almost always shake either way, a mouse player depends on nervousness.
Da Nu Nuttah isn't hard, I find lagomorphic's jumps harderRiince wrote:
lagomorph worth same pp as da nu nuttah lol
OD too stronk
even with the same accuracy, those DT scores would give more pp than the Nomod scores, which is just stupidCalignoBot wrote:
Your accuracy being lower in the non-DT scores doesn't exactly help anything.
You'd be surprised how much adding 1% to your score when your accuracy is that high can do to your pp.
You're undervaluing accuracy/overvaluing the difficulty of these maps imoZare wrote:
even with the same accuracy, those DT scores would give more pp than the Nomod scores, which is just stupidCalignoBot wrote:
Your accuracy being lower in the non-DT scores doesn't exactly help anything.
You'd be surprised how much adding 1% to your score when your accuracy is that high can do to your pp.
well i find da nu nuttah harder and thats just my opinionGoldenWolf wrote:
Da Nu Nuttah isn't hard, I find lagomorphic's jumps harderRiince wrote:
lagomorph worth same pp as da nu nuttah lol
OD too stronk
The point of buffing it would be exactly that. Making it worth it to play FL, because right now it is /heavily/ underrated. For a mod where you can not possibly get a sightread FC/SS without cheating, the fact that it isn't the most rewarding mod is ridiculous.-GN wrote:
Who plays FL for pp anyway? It's so ball-bustingly hard to pull off anything above 250pp that it's not worth it in any case. FL is played for interesting scores, not to get points for it, since anyone who wanted the latter would find more effective ways to get it than playing a single map 200 times to get some high rank.
It could probably use a small buff, just to make the FL scores stand even taller compared to HD/nomod plays, but other than that I don't get the point, honestly.
You're underestimating how hard it is to get a 2K+ combo. And, for that matter, anyone saying that World's End is overrated is /completely/ ignoring the ridiculously long spaced streams, the constant jumps that can sometimes get pretty damn big and the fact that it's a 6 minute+ beatmap. It is not overrated at all.pooptartsonas wrote:
However, it causes problems in the extreme case (~2500+ combo). The scaling on long maps continues to increase, meaning that a player can gain a significant amount of pp from a map that they will practically never miss on, given that it is long enough. This is clearly seen in the world's end map that pielak referenced earlier. The pp awarded is pretty clearly too high. With that said, I think the changes worked wonders for anything in the 1000-1500 combo range. The bonus for map length simply needs to begin to taper off around 2k combo, and I think the algorithm will be in an excellent spot in terms of accounting for map length.
this is still not a play-style that should be promoted. it isn't fun or interesting, and because it doesn't make the song harder in any technical aspect it provides a negligible pp bonus like hidden and that's how it should be. there's a difference between a maps difficulty and how hard it is to achieve the score, the second one isn't used in pp calculations.Tess wrote:
The point of buffing it would be exactly that. Making it worth it to play FL, because right now it is /heavily/ underrated. For a mod where you can not possibly get a sightread FC/SS without cheating, the fact that it isn't the most rewarding mod is ridiculous.
and you're underestimating the significance of 350+ PP. that's probably one of the easiest score Rucker has achieved on his top 10 yet it gives more pp than almost all of them.Tess wrote:
You're underestimating how hard it is to get a 2K+ combo. And, for that matter, anyone saying that World's End is overrated is /completely/ ignoring the ridiculously long spaced streams, the constant jumps that can sometimes get pretty damn big and the fact that it's a 6 minute+ beatmap. It is not overrated at all.
This is a really stupid thing to say, though. First of all, whether it's fun or interesting or not depends largely on the player. A lot of things that I find fun other players find unnecessarily hard or tedious, and vice versa. That doesn't change the fact that those maps deserve to be rewarded. Also, it does make the map harder because it makes it harder to read. That a map isn't faster or the map's settings don't change doesn't mean that it's not harder when you make 90% of it fucking invisible. Lastly, this line is particularly dumbRiince wrote:
this is still not a play-style that should be promoted. it isn't fun or interesting, and because it doesn't make the song harder in any technical aspect it provides a negligible pp bonus like hidden and that's how it should be. there's a difference between a maps difficulty and how hard it is to achieve the score, the second one isn't used in pp calculations.
I think you're confusing subjective difficulty with objective difficulty. Yes, if you happen to have trouble with squares, nailing a square jump in an easy map won't give you any pp, despite that score being difficult to achieve for you. But FL is difficult for everyone. Just like DT/HR aren't mods that just anyone can perform well with. So the difficulty in FL should give a significant pp bonus, especially since most players can't even play with it. People only hate FL because they suck at it, because it is hard.Riince wrote:
there's a difference between a maps difficulty and how hard it is to achieve the score
This doesn't nullify my statement, though. I said you're underestimating how hard the map is and you say you're not, but don't really give any reasonable explanation as to why. "It's the easiest score Rucker achieved on his top 10" - but what makes it easier? What about this map is easier than the others he played that gave him equal or less pp? Unless you actually answer that you're not really saying anything at all.Riince wrote:
and you're underestimating the significance of 350+ PP. that's probably one of the easiest score Rucker has achieved on his top 10 yet it gives more pp than almost all of them.
more or less what i meant by "not a play-style that should be promoted", thank you for saying thisDrezi wrote:
You see getting good FL scores requires specific practice on the given map, while learning the other mods gives you the ability to play them on any map, so it would be bad for everyone if getting high ranks would require you to practice individual maps with FL, instead of focusing on improving your general skillset.
From the wiki-Soba- wrote:
I feel like the difference between OD7, OD8, and OD9 for accuracy pp is too large. There's basically no difference between OD7 and OD8, and OD9 isn't that much harder. I don't think high OD's should be worth any more, but I think the lower OD's shouldn't be worth so much less.
even if the windows for getting 300 is smaller, most people are already clicking well within the OD8 window in OD7 anyway is the point I was making. I don't think OD8 maps should give so much more pp for free just because they're OD8.Tess wrote:
From the wiki-Soba- wrote:
I feel like the difference between OD7, OD8, and OD9 for accuracy pp is too large. There's basically no difference between OD7 and OD8, and OD9 isn't that much harder. I don't think high OD's should be worth any more, but I think the lower OD's shouldn't be worth so much less.
I disagree.