Let me say upfront that I'm sorry my previous posts about why I support autoconverts apparently didn't even have a fragment of a decent argument. It's not like I wasn't giving my honest and truthful feelings about the mode or not trying my best explain why I feel that 99% of the maps have value (which you'll note I also stated were as a whole less difficult when compared to mania specific maps and should receive comparatively less, but still fairly calculated pp).Drace wrote:
First of all, to every post against unranking ACs (except Tom, his arguments actually made sense though I don't believe 1 point outclasses the many that's been presented from the other side.). None of you are presenting anything that could even be considered a fragment of a decent argument. Throwing stuff around like it's "absurd", "unfair" and saying we should all "perish the thought" with no basis whatsoever, thinking that it's enough to prove a point.
In case you missed it, some of my other invalid arguments included my genuinely enjoying the autoconverts and still wanting to participate in the fun of being ranked, without being forced to play the mania specific maps. I also stated that people are actually making an effort when playing the autoconverts (despite all the arguments that they are way too easy/no challenge). I don't find them all easy, in fact, I find many of them to be quite challenging and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I also touched on how mania specific maps are very limiting in their playability (to me at least) due to their complex patterning and my lack of coordination, so I'm not yet at a point where I find them all that enjoyable.
Also - I mentioned how ranking should be open to everyone, regardless if they choose to play autoconverts or hand crafted maps. So long as the pp system set in place reflects the actual difficulty level for each map, then this shouldn't be a problem. The best players who can actually finish the mania specific maps will be at the top of the board where they belong, but the casual or beginner players who prefer autoconverts or are not yet ready for the difficulty of most mania specific maps can still enjoy being part of the overall rankings.
I hope you find at least a fraction of a "decent" argument in there.
Yes, there are a number of mania maps available, but don't forget, there's only a small portion of that already small selection of mania specific maps that beginners can actually play through. It doesn't offer up much variety. Luckily, there are also autoconverts that first timers can pass. Many, many, more of them in fact. But since they aren't considered to be "real" mania maps, they should be all removed from the pp system. Regardless of if anyone finds them enjoyable or considers them to contain a level of difficulty suited to their playing style. Forget trying to make a pp system that is reflective of their lesser level of difficulty and ranked accordingly - let's just simply not count them anymore, because certain people feel they don't fit their perceived notion about what mania is all about.Drace wrote:
Also: there's mania specific songs that first timers can clear. The problem is the the extremely limited 5 star scale that scales o2jam lv1 and o2jam level 9 at the same 1 star making it harder to find them.
But, hey, what do I know? I only love this game more than every other game out there right now and a lot of that love is a direct result of having played the autoconverts which I genuinely do enjoy playing. It's a shame that what I find enjoyable is an abomination and should be eliminated and not allowed to be embraced by those who love it. It's also a shame that anyone who loves this aspect of the game and speaks out to support it is fair game for being insulted and portrayed as having little to no value in the mania community. (This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but just a general observation I've made while reading through the replies in this forum thread.)
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And thank you Tom for working on this thankless task for us. I know you will never be able to please everyone, but from you're posts I have no worries as I know you will be trying your best to create a fair pp calculation system inclusive of everyone.