Except at the moment we don't have a ranked HR mod, so the only way to get that boost is to do DT which mutilates the song.
I would change that by lowering the first two by 100K and putting a replacement 500-600 as 'know what you're meant to be doing (so not mashing) but just not able to pull it off properly'. 'Controlled mashing' will usually end up giving a score in the mid-high 400ks.Aqo wrote:
Accuracy shouldn't be looked at at all. Use score.
I tested on many maps now and it seems like score is FAR more credible for how well you can play a map than accuracy% (honestly accuracies are completely random, who doesn't have a million stories of beating an A with a B and so on); it's also pretty much immune to mapper-selected OD values which is cool.
Below 500,000 score = pure mash
500-600 = controlled mashing
600-700 = playing maps just outside of your reading limits. this is the main thing that should give performance.
700-800 = playing maps on the border of your reading limits. this is usually where you start to get S rank.
800-900 = the map is easy for you
900-999 = farming accuracy
I can't agree any more.milky228 wrote:
I would prefer it if PP was decided by score not accuracy. This is because when you hit a 300perfect and a 300 they are considered as the same accuracy even though they aren't.
spamspamspamspam \:D/PyaKura wrote:
It's common for me to get B's of 470k ~ 500k huehue
quoting again for great justice. accuracy is practically meaningless (not really, it gives a general impression, but still random and inaccurate/inconsistent) in mania, go with score.milky228 wrote:
I would prefer it if PP was decided by score not accuracy. This is because when you hit a 300perfect and a 300 they are considered as the same accuracy even though they aren't.
Except when you get a high nomod score, and then a slightly lower DT score (which obviously needs more skill), you won't get pp for it because only the highest score matters. Once you do well without mods, you're screwed.Cozzzy wrote:
Even if the 0* modifier is unintuitive, I don't see why players shouldn't be rewarded for playing more difficult maps well. It's the same as osu!standard, where (for example) rrtyui will sometimes barely get in the top 50, but is also the only player who was capable of playing it with DT.
RebelSlayer wrote:
mods should not be factored into the ranking system.
Me too! ^Andrew Chow wrote:
I strongly oppose the implementation of mods into the ranking system.
I didn't even know key mods were ranked. What the hell?! That is a load of crap. That shouldn't be ranked at all.October Scream wrote:
See this shit? Niclijou is this high when he is always using these key mods! This was today, and the whole time he had 4k on. This is why the key mods should be unranked.
HR is unranked, yet it only changes the accuracy for notes.
RD is unranked, but even though it changes the note placements, it still will let you end with the same combo number of the song.
And yet, Key Mods are ranked, even though they change the whole songs track and combo number!
Some people are saying "But some good songs are low key counts." YES I KNOW! I play those songs too and not always 7k! I just want the mod unranked, not the lower key songs!
Take this into consideration people, it's totally unfair for all of us skilled players.
That rank is from the old & broken PP system, from farming easy maps that are low key by default - key mods have nothing to do with this.October Scream wrote:
See this shit? Niclijou is this high when he is always using these key mods! This was today, and the whole time he had 4k on. This is why the key mods should be unranked.
HR is unranked, yet it only changes the accuracy for notes.
RD is unranked, but even though it changes the note placements, it still will let you end with the same combo number of the song.
And yet, Key Mods are ranked, even though they change the whole songs track and combo number!
Some people are saying "But some good songs are low key counts." YES I KNOW! I play those songs too and not always 7k! I just want the mod unranked, not the lower key songs!
Take this into consideration people, it's totally unfair for all of us skilled players.
This!Drace wrote:
We should be contributing on what makes a map hard and what makes a map easy, with possible example, to help tom make his algorithm.
Mania rankings on the site still redirect here https://osu.ppy.sh/news/73929298672 so idk why the broken preview-rankings still show up in-game, but we're basically still using the old PPv1 system with even more bias towards easy accuracy scores at the moment, but that'll get fixed. My point was that in that player's example, he didn't use key mods for his rank at all, but just played easy songs.October Scream wrote:
@Cozzzy, If the old system were the case, wouldn't those players still be low? Wouldn't we all be back to the ppv1 placements? Also, EZ and NF don't affect pp given (Same pp reduction is applied), I was trying to point out key mods -_-
First, I did not imply that only skilled players should only use 7k. I mentioned that in my first picture post. I play other key songs, just only if the max diff isn't 7k.Cozzzy wrote:
Mania rankings on the site still redirect here https://osu.ppy.sh/news/73929298672 so idk why the broken preview-rankings still show up in-game, but we're basically still using the old PPv1 system with even more bias towards easy accuracy scores at the moment, but that'll get fixed. My point was that in that player's example, he didn't use key mods for his rank at all, but just played easy songs.
Honestly, I just don't like it when people imply that anyone who doesn't play 7K exclusively is not a "skilled player". Without the key mod, I'd have to play the slow LN-spam maps people keep making for 4K
If you mean that you've become #3k or so during the last 3 or 4 weeks it's normal, lots of people have seen their rank skyrockets.falkon13 wrote:
Are auto converts a big deal in rankings? Admittedly this evidence is anecdotal and I don't know what ranking system the ingame system is displaying, but when I was solely playing auto converts I was just inside the 10k mark, ever since I've been playing osu!mania specific maps my ranking has shot up to 3k. I haven't suddenly become a much better player, but I've suddenly overtaken seven thousand people.
We have discussed this earlier in the thread (page 7), but Tom wants to try create an algorithm first. It would be easier it there was an algorithm, but a team dedicated to judging the difficulties of maps would also be very accurate.October Scream wrote:
What if we had something like a MMTT? (Mania Map Testing Team)
Since most mania maps have their multiple difficulties and some being harder than the highest star rating in there (ex. Wotamin-Gigantic O.T.N. Entozer's Another > L.I.A.'s Insane difficulty wise), the team would test a map before it is qualified or approved and they send in their difficulty ratings? I think this would help with the mania specific maps a lot.
Tom94 wrote:
Hello everyone,
note that currently the osu!mania ranking is not functional. If you have any suggestions on how the future system should work, then leave it in this thread, please.
I'd like to mention a few things regarding how I plan on tackling this.
The general direction:
- First of all, everyone can decide on his/her own which maps he deems good or bad, or which ones he/she prefers playing. We shouldn't be forcing certain maps on people by making them worth more for no sensible reason.
- I'll try to make an algorithm that's fair for both auto-converts and mode-specific maps. We will all see how it turns out, and if it's alright, then I see no reason to reduce the value of auto-converts. As mentioned above you are still free to play the maps you prefer playing. I can however understand where the auto-convert argument is coming from, and it'll definitely be addressed if there won't be a good solution that weights all maps the same.
- Default X-key modes exist for each specific beatmap for a reason. My initial plan is to give slightly more points to the default X-key mode of a particular beatmap than any custom one. This is not set in stone yet and most likely will change in one way or another while testing.
- Unfortunately X-key specific ranking is not going to happen. That'd be for one part a way too huge amount of things to manage and for the other would clutter up everything.
Beatmap difficulty:
This is were you all can help the most. My current concept is somewhere along the following: Similarly to how tp works with osu! standard maps I would like to instroduce strain values to measure how hard it is to play a certain map. This essentially means, that a higher note density will also be considered harder, while the algorithm is aware, that using a single hand or finger multiple times in a row is more demanding than simply alternating.
For mods the map will simply be transformed accordingly to what standard does in the moment. HR will increase OD, DT the speed at which the map plays back, etc.
I have not yet gone in-depth and it would be great if you could give me hints of what the hardest patterns are and how to rate difficulty. Any X-key feedback is welcome!
Are you arguing to change the way autoconverts are generated? They'll be bad no matter how they're converted. The extra dimension of having to aim with the cursor is lost when converting to mania so it's essentially trying to expand a 1 key game into a 4-7 key game and it simply doesn't work well.Hanyuu wrote:
If it counts in auto converts it should has something in it about the sliders.
Lower key maps should be worth a lot less now. Also there was a bug with holds that made them considered pretty much not at all. This has been fixed, too.Zealtron wrote:
Some quick feedback on things I'm seeing right off the bat. I'm seeing a lot more lower key maps being put at a higher difficulty than higher key maps, even though they're quite a bit easier.
ex. Akasha's 8k FEVER is lower than Little Star 4k INF.
unfinished's 4k Accel is 8 higher than its 7k Burst.
Another issue is how you're handling the difficulty for long notes (or maybe HP Drain/OD). Wintersun 7k Winter is definitely a lot lower than it should be.