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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Rewben2

Kinji wrote:

How do you gain pp now?
In a similar way you gain tp, you get good ranks.

If you want an actual method, look at profiles of people ranked similar to yourself and try and beat their scores, or get a similar score. This is all I've been doing and I gained 900 ranks yesterday and 600 today, and my "top performance" is pretty much filled with maps from this time. I'm not even trying hard, I've beaten some scores in 3 or less tries and gained 150 ranks for the map. Easy.
Topic Starter
Tom94
Just wanted to let you all know, that future changes to the system are now documented in the changelog.
buny
rly gud
969363565
I just don't like the ranking system.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.

However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.

Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.
Rewben2

969363565 wrote:

I just don't like the ranking system.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.

However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.

Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.

Tom94 wrote:

FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
FreshMint
<3 it
hinamizawan
I like it more than the original pp but still there are some confusing delay of scores... I was #1112 this morning, went to get a #2 in an Insane diff no mod then I drop to 1118... shortly after I get a no mod #4 at a Hard diff and suddenly went to 1090.
Topic Starter
Tom94

makkura wrote:

I like it more than the original pp but still there are some confusing delay of scores... I was #1112 this morning, went to get a #2 in an Insane diff no mod then I drop to 1118... shortly after I get a no mod #4 at a Hard diff and suddenly went to 1090.
There are still initial bug-fixes and fine-tuning things happening. Please be patient for the next few days / weeks for it to stabilize a bit more.
Gigo
Nice ranking system Tom! I have 0 (zero (null)) complaints about it. In ppv1 I was rank 10k... when ppv2 was implemented I dropped to rank 17k, which was ok since I know I didn't deserve rank 10k. Then I played >>> https://osu.ppy.sh/s/57950 <<< on Lunatic, finished it with a decent combo (873) and although my accuracy was really bad (95%), I skyrocketed to rank 13k... just from playing one song! So, yeah, keep up the good work!
Horolynn

969363565 wrote:

[...]
I just want to complain.
Most, if not all of your flashlight scores are apparently normal and easy maps, while the ones in top performance are insane and hard. System working as planned?
Fabi
WHY WOULD YOU DELETE MY AWESOME SCORE?????????



:(
vioLinAngel
i like it
Symqn
Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
dedaloodak
4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
uzzi

Symqn wrote:

Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
Not sure, but I gained some pp and lost some accuracy as well from playing.
TheBigA
I would be interested in how sliderbreaks are treated (combo breaking ones and just -1 combo ones).
XGeneral2000

Symqn wrote:

Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
I think there's a lot of tweaking/adding/updating going on right now, my pp increased this morning despite me not having even opened the client for over 24 hours. My "Top Performances" changed as well. I'm guessing we should give it some time to finish processing and stabilize.

With regards to the highest-performance vs highest-score problem, would it be possible to run a pp-value check after every play (regardless of score) and compare it to the pp-value of the current high score? And if the new play is a higher value, to update the pp accordingly even if high score doesn't change?

I admittedly don't know much about what calculations are done client-side vs server-side, or whether pp is calculated from scratch after every play, or anything like that (I'd be very interested to know, actually, if you have time and if that's disclosable), so I can't suggest much in terms of efficiency. My guess is that there's a table of high scores for every player on the server, and that pp is recalculated each time this table is updated...in this case, the only way to implement this higher-pp vs higher-score idea would be to store a new table of highest-pp scores for every player, which would be very memory-expensive (as I think you mentioned somewhere earlier). The only way I can see to get around this would be to migrate the pp calculations to the client-side, but I don't know how feasible that would be.
Natteke
I've tried to see if I can get any pp at all. Played a bunch of maps, mostly newly ranked with streams and jumps. Got decent acc and ranks, ended up with 0pp. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong? Is it not real time? I'm confused.
Ippikiryu
Are all the older maps calculated into the current scores? Or are they still updating? Or do you have to replay some to get them reincluded?
Pettanko

Natteke wrote:

I've tried to see if I can get any pp at all. Played a bunch of maps, mostly newly ranked with streams and jumps. Got decent acc and ranks, ended up with 0pp. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong? Is it not real time? I'm confused.
I think it takes time before your pp updates because when I got a top performance a few days ago it took some time before it showed in my performace history. I'm guessing it updates every few hours or so?
969363565

Draxuss wrote:

Most, if not all of your flashlight scores are apparently normal and easy maps, while the ones in top performance are insane and hard. System working as planned?
I don't know how it works and what should working as planned be like. I'm sure that I have scores that are insane +FL and hard +DTFL, but they are still defeated by the none scores.

Rewben2 wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
Thanks a lot. I hadn't read the early replies. :lol:
However, if flashlight can only get a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim, should DT get a huge bonus only in maps which have high BPM? I don't think DT is much harder than FL, especially in some slow and long maps.


By the way, how about the maps which don't have that many streams and jumps but are hard to read? Is this kind of difficulty considered?
XGeneral2000

969363565 wrote:

However, if flashlight can only get a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim, should DT get a huge bonus only in maps which have high BPM? I don't think DT is much harder than FL, especially in some slow and long maps.
Theoretically, DT should already only give huge bonus in maps which are harder to begin with. It doesn't add a % multiplier - the difficulty is recalculated from scratch with DT in effect - the same as if you were playing a version mapped at 1.5x speed with no mods. So if a map is slow to begin with, the difficulty won't be that high even with DT.
Metro
Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?
Full Tablet

Metro wrote:

Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?

That would give too much ranking to some countries with only 1 player
NixXSkate

Tom94 wrote:

Kert wrote:

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
I think the speed of the map (1/2 notes) with how jumpy it is should play a big part in the FL's bonus system.
http://osutp.net/scores?bid=154889
This is one of the most impressive FL scores yet due to the speed of the map along with its jumps (normally FL scores are on fairly slow maps), but we can see that the system didn't treat Dungeon kindly in comparison to the competition.

Sorry if it was mentioned before, the thread grew quite a bit and didn't want to look through all 17 pages. :o
Metro

Full Tablet wrote:

Metro wrote:

Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?

That would give too much ranking to some countries with only 1 player
True. But the country rankings are much different than in osu!tp, that's why I'm asking.
wyedwardchan

dedaloodak wrote:

4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
I know that feel bro
Mine 5k#>>>>18k#

Just fun playing is now not an option, just keep retrying your insane maps dude :roll: :roll:
UNIFO
I have some concerns regarding Performance Points and tying it to difficulty of the map.

Most notably.... songs that involve 5.00 difficulty.

There are some songs at 5.00 difficulty that are not as difficult as some of the insane 5.00 difficulty maps, yet I believe they are treated the same for calculations for PP purposes. (I'll provide examples if needed).

This can be "set up for some level of exploit of getting PP" at around the 1k to 2k PP range, in my opinion. Ie... they can effectively raise their PP by playing and doing really well at the easy 5.00 difficulty maps.


Maybe we need to start ranking maps with 6.00 difficulty to really differentiate the hard and really hard maps... because there is a huge saturation of maps at the 4.75 - 5.00 difficulty range?
Wishy
Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.

UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
buny

Wishy wrote:

Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.

UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
i still have scores that took 1 pc in my best performance though
Wishy
Most of the scores I got on my best performance came from score that took me one play, your point? Some examples would be helpful.
buny
my point is that the weighings can still be improved
Wishy
Certainly.
UNIFO

Wishy wrote:

Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.

UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
Here is some definitive evidence/example that will leave anybody baffled on how the PP system would work.

Example 1:

Before improving the score of this map (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/183511), I had a score of like 700k on it, and it was considered one of my top performing songs.

Now compare that to the score of this map (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/312770) which still is at 1.5 Mil. I think this map is harder than the previous map, yet this was not one of my top performing song.

Note that both songs are at 5.00 difficulty. The 2nd one is the more difficult song. DESPITE this fact, my 700k score was a top performer (as of yesterday, now has improved). Now how does that make any sense what so ever?

Example 2:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/169090?m=0 -> my top score is 1.4 Mil, 79% accuracy, max combo 170, and difficulty of 4.94. This song is in my top performer.

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/309501 -> my top score is 4.6 Mil, 87% accuracy, max combo 460, and difficulty of 5.00. This song NOT my top performer.

Again the 2nd one I feel is much more difficult. Yet somehow the first one is part of my top 10 performance, and the 2nd isn't.

----

I'm aware there are other factors that involve PP, such as how competitive the song could be. However, these two examples does show that something is kinda fishy occurring with 5.00 difficulty songs, and can be set up for exploit with specific songs.
Wishy
I'm too lazy to check out the maps, but just by looking at the scoreboard I can say what you usually consider to be easier is actually harder.

Didn't check any of the maps tho so I may be wrong. Star system has nothing to do anyways, trust me, just ignore it. You won't get a lot of pp from a random 5* map compared to hard 5* maps.
HoriKyoko
This feels a little stupid but, is the top 10 best performance in order of amount of pp awarded?
Lach

lucari386 wrote:

This feels a little stupid but, is the top 10 best performance in order of amount of pp awarded?
Yes. The higher ones are more valuable.
thelewa

dedaloodak wrote:

4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
#2 -> #4 as you can see 4 is double the amount of 2 meaning that at a percentual level my rank dropped almost as much as yours did

GG NO RE THIS SYSTEM IS DOOMED




on a more serious note people who are complaining about their rank dropping should consider the possibility that there might be players better than them getting better scores than what they're getting

just saying that it is an almost certain possibility
Kinji
what i dun get is, how does player which has worse scores than me, performance is also not as good( not to brag), but have higher pp than me...
Rewben2

Kinji wrote:

what i dun get is, how does player which has worse scores than me, performance is also not as good( not to brag), but have higher pp than me...
Example? The system calculates their scores are worth more.
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