Planned or actually going to happen?Tom94 wrote:
. Pattern difficulty is not yet implemented but definitely planned.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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i will have my old Rank ;_; please give it back
30k-->18k-->5k-->8k-->31k ;(
30k-->18k-->5k-->8k-->31k ;(
It's time to learn to play Insanes++ (:NaThaNeL wrote:
i will have my old Rank ;_; please give it back
30k-->18k-->5k-->8k-->31k ;(
um, well, i am really confused with the new system, but why is there a BIG difference between a player tp and the ranking? Sorry if I kinda offended anyone here....
Topic Starter
Don't worry, asking as question shouldn't offend anyone.Kinji wrote:
um, well, i am really confused with the new system, but why is there a BIG difference between a player tp and the ranking? Sorry if I kinda offended anyone here....
tp and pp while being more similar now are still very different. Especially in lower ranks, since tp was neither able to obtain information about sub-top50 scores nor designed for casual players in the lower rankings. You can look at tp for a general guideline of how much your scores are worth, but that's about it. Don't expect the two systems to overlap too much.
I just played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/263384&m=0 on Nogard for the first time and passed it, and lost 4pp. Is there any particular reason for that?
Thx, but if its like that, then what is the algorithm or method that the new pp system is running by? Its by calculating all your scores right? Isn't that a advantage for old players that have played alot more beatmaps than the new players? Or is it using a similar system as osu!tp? Because osu!tp is calculating the player aim, speed and accuracy, which is the closest to calculating the skill of the players.....? 
Well, still the pp are bad. 
Probably the system updatingMazzerin wrote:
I just played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/263384&m=0 on Nogard for the first time and passed it, and lost 4pp. Is there any particular reason for that?
Magnolia
Topic Starter
You can't lose pp by getting a completely new score - that is by passing a map you never passed before. Everything is being reprocessed at the moment, so instabilities like this may occur for a short while. Did you maybe have a NoFail pass on the map before? That one might have been considered better.Mazzerin wrote:
I just played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/263384&m=0 on Nogard for the first time and passed it, and lost 4pp. Is there any particular reason for that?
If I would present you with a system where players are strictly ranked by amount of #1s, then believe me, you wouldn't be happy about it. Or do you support farming easy diffs with all possible mods all day?HandHeldPillow wrote:
this system seems semi messed up. i mean in all honesty the person with the most #1's should be #1 not someone who has a few #1's on some retarded maps, i mean this was proven yesterday 1 person 20 #1's and 8k pp, this system is super flawed
HandHeldPillow wrote:
this system seems semi messed up. i mean in all honesty the person with the most #1's should be #1 not someone who has a few #1's on some retarded maps, i mean this was proven yesterday 1 person 20 #1's and 8k pp, this system is super flawed
I hope this a sincere troll. By your logic, if I went and got the most #1's on easy maps, I should be #1 world? Please.HandHeldPillow wrote:
the person with the most #1's should be #1
i don't like it :'(
To get more pp i must pass and read insane
But thats what i can't!!
Iam on Hard + HD so Insane needs to long!
So i must give up my Rank
To get more pp i must pass and read insane
But thats what i can't!!
Iam on Hard + HD so Insane needs to long!
So i must give up my Rank
Well thats the rank you deserve if you can't do the insanes.
...
Magnolia
i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
Topic Starter
Hards still do give a considerable amount of pp - if your best scores consist of hards or worse. You seem to already have climbed up to some Insanes. A ranking system, that tries to tell people how good they are shouldn't reward you a lot for playing maps that are more or less easy for you. Farming is not a bad thing and actually already built in for your first few thousand scores, but with 20,000 plays this has already more or less come to a halt for you.HandHeldPillow wrote:
i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
NaThaNeL wrote:
i don't like it :'(
To get more pp i must pass and read insane
But thats what i can't!!
Iam on Hard + HD so Insane needs to long!
So i must give up my Rank
If you want ranks, you need to get better. You don't need to be Cookiezi to make your rank higher than it is, you just need to be better than you are right now.HandHeldPillow wrote:
i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
Constantly gaining rank for doing what you always do is exactly what farming is. If you no longer gain rank from what you are doing, the system is telling you that it is time to bite the bullet and improve.
If you don't need to improve to increase rank, what's the point of it?
I think there could be a separate ranking to Speed, Accuracy and Aim, instead of only for Score and overall Performance. You can already calculate each of them, right? It would help give people a notion to what they should improve and what they can already do.
Don't you think No Fail and Slow passes should be left out? I mean, I don't even know why they're ranked in the first place, but allowing these to give pps just makes things even messier.Tom94 wrote:
You can't lose pp by getting a completely new score - that is by passing a map you never passed before. Everything is being reprocessed at the moment, so instabilities like this may occur for a short while. Did you maybe have a NoFail pass on the map before? That one might have been considered better.
I really think that having the speed, acc and aim thing here as well will help every player to know what they lack and how to improve, since tp and pp now are really like each other whenever i want to farm pp i'd go to tp and see what gives me points and the most important thing, WHY it gives me points (high speed, aim etc) and that way i'm recognizing the 'training' i'm doing to increase my ranking. (And with this i mean we should be able to see that here too, it's not a big deal but since maps are calculated in another way here, there is a difference from what we're seeing on osutp.net and what we would be seeing here)
I'm sorry if explain myself like a retard but well, i tried.
Also i guess this would be dealed with when the wiki comes so it's not like things like this aren't planned, just saying.
I'm sorry if explain myself like a retard but well, i tried.
Also i guess this would be dealed with when the wiki comes so it's not like things like this aren't planned, just saying.
Not at all, see this hypothetical example, there is a long song with 1000 notes (fc) and 220 bpm, which has a long stream at the end. Player 1 can't stream at that speed, so he plays with NF, and gets a 90% acc 600 combo score, player 2 can barely stream at that speed, and gets a 75% acc 300 combo score, without mods. At least, if you ask me, Player 1 deserves more pp, by far, and that score shouln't be left out.FlameseeK wrote:
Don't you think No Fail and Slow passes should be left out? I mean, I don't even know why they're ranked in the first place, but allowing these to give pps just makes things even messier.Tom94 wrote:
You can't lose pp by getting a completely new score - that is by passing a map you never passed before. Everything is being reprocessed at the moment, so instabilities like this may occur for a short while. Did you maybe have a NoFail pass on the map before? That one might have been considered better.
And when the more important stuff is settled, a place where you can see all your contributing maps and their scores.ChaosVictor wrote:
I think there could be a separate ranking to Speed, Accuracy and Aim, instead of only for Score and overall Performance. You can already calculate each of them, right? It would help give people a notion to what they should improve and what they can already do.
What you're basically asking for here is for an increase in rank without an increase in skill. This is exactly why the old ranking system was removed. If you don't like your rank - improve as a player. If you don't want to improve as a player, accept the rank you have.HandHeldPillow wrote:
i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
Wasn't nofail only going to give a 0.05x score decrease? I think this is better, since there are some maps that I can play quite fine until one part that I always fail. Being able to still get a reasonable score for doing well on the rest of the map should be fair.pold10 wrote:
Not at all, see this hypothetical example, there is a long song with 1000 notes (fc) and 220 bpm, which has a long stream at the end. Player 1 can't stream at that speed, so he plays with NF, and gets a 90% acc 600 combo score, player 2 can barely stream at that speed, and gets a 75% acc 300 combo score, without mods. At least, if you ask me, Player 1 deserves more pp, by far, and that score shouln't be left out.
What an incredible improvement ! Thank you, like this it seems really more relevant.
Two little suggestions :
* it would be nice if beside the ranks present in the 'top ranks' section of the user pages we could see the corresponding performance ratings, and by the way which mods were used.
* Currently if you get a record in a song where you already have records with a lower performance rating but with higher scores then your last record is not taken into account in the pp evaluation, which is pretty sad. It has been suggested to had a feature to intentionally delete previous plays but would'nt it be better simply if the record with the highest performance rating was the one to be taken into account ? Thus you could divide the scoreboards into two tabs : a main one with plays sorted by their performance rating and another with plays sorted by their score. If you pass a song and beat your previous scores but don't beat your best performance rating then the play will not be taken into account even for the second scoreboard, of course. Like this and not vice-versa would be fairer.
Sorry if I had not been clear enough and thank you again.
Two little suggestions :
* it would be nice if beside the ranks present in the 'top ranks' section of the user pages we could see the corresponding performance ratings, and by the way which mods were used.
* Currently if you get a record in a song where you already have records with a lower performance rating but with higher scores then your last record is not taken into account in the pp evaluation, which is pretty sad. It has been suggested to had a feature to intentionally delete previous plays but would'nt it be better simply if the record with the highest performance rating was the one to be taken into account ? Thus you could divide the scoreboards into two tabs : a main one with plays sorted by their performance rating and another with plays sorted by their score. If you pass a song and beat your previous scores but don't beat your best performance rating then the play will not be taken into account even for the second scoreboard, of course. Like this and not vice-versa would be fairer.
Sorry if I had not been clear enough and thank you again.
I dropped to 60000 from 30000, because I didn't play maps where I couldn't get top 1000 and farmed on normal maps instead, but after playing some of the hard maps I climbed 20000 ranks back up with maps that were a lot harder to play, so I guess it's working GJ (and I'm not rank 80000 like in tp -.-)
GJ (and I'm not rank 80000 like in tp -.-)I would love an option to hide PP and ranking, as i wanna play for fun but it feels like its forcing me to compete
Most of the older and easier maps are incredibly stable already. There's less, not more incentive to play them based on what I'm describing.Tom94 wrote:
What you're describing is somewhat dimilar to what the previous pp iterations tried to do and you've seen where it led to. Nobody has the time to play _all_ the overrated old / easy diffs to farm and make them "stable".EvaRia wrote:
SPOILERThe problem with this concept, is that the people who play [hard] diffs, old maps or top-tier maps are very different and therefore the data we have to analyze will also be different. This was one of the main issues of previous pp iterations, making [hard] and old maps being weighted much more, because statistically they seemed harder than they were since most of the good players didn't play them.
Well, keep in mind that what I'm proposing is a purely contextual metric.
I agree that as far as pure skill is involved, the difficulty of the map itself is the most relevant for determining skill level.
But since you're calculating primarily based on difficulty and not on context, where I'm proposing a metric based on context with no regard for difficulty, they could theoretically exist as different metrics right?
Even shoutouts to unique awesome plays (mostly for top tier players) would make things interesting.
"<NAME> is the first to achieve rank <RANK> or better using <MODS> on <BEATMAP> (<RANKING>)!"
I don't know how exactly it would be implemented right now, but as far as a ladder system or proper context frame goes, I feel like it would be better than whatever's currently popular. It gives a certain focus on undermining scores and record-hunting that I think would be neat to see. It would also be pretty dynamic, I think.
Unstable maps are played to get the score bonus, but as they get played they stabilize again. This leaves the more difficult maps that take much longer to stabilize lingering at the top of the chart and looking through it gives you a handy way of finding the most "relevant" leaderboards.
Maybe this doesn't work the way I imagine it would though?
With a lot of work a system like that might be tuned to be somewhat correct, but from my past experiences (yes, I also tried those kind of things with tp to a small degree) it doubt it'd be feasible.
The shoutouts you mention are indeed very interesting, but that would be even harder to implement with the way scoring works at the moment.
The incentive is to do better in maps that NOT stabilized.
This doesn't necessarily have to be part of the ppv2 algorithm but could be a way of building something like a dynamic chart consisting of the most relevant scoreboards.
I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.
My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.
Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.
Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
Topic Starter
I'm afraid I don't quite grasp what you call "unstable" then. Also note the word "most", that you have been using. The ranking system needs to be reliable on all maps - or more precisely: the worst-case error should be minimized. Single points of failure can easily spoil things.EvaRia wrote:
Most of the older and easier maps are incredibly stable already. There's less, not more incentive to play them based on what I'm describing.
The incentive is to do better in maps that NOT stabilized.
This doesn't necessarily have to be part of the ppv2 algorithm but could be a way of building something like a dynamic chart consisting of the most relevant scoreboards.
If you can give me a detailed explanation of what you have in mind, then don't hestitate to send me some paragraphs per PM. I'm talking about precise definitions of what "unstable" would be and how the scores should be weighted according to it. I'm curious.
Are you 100%ly sure, that your pp didn't change, or did it simply not display any change in-game? Because if it displays in your best-performance list, then it definitely gets included in the calculation for your pp value.Nagashurai wrote:
I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.
My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.
Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
Regarding the rank 36 notification in your profile: Either it is connected to scores getting removed from said map after you achieved rank 36 (unlikely) or it is indeed a bug. That one doesn't have to do with pp and it would be great if you could report it as a bug in the appropriate subforum.
do approved maps give pp with ppv2?
SPOILER
Tom94 wrote:
I'm afraid I don't quite grasp what you call "unstable" then. Also note the word "most", that you have been using. The ranking system needs to be reliable on all maps - or more precisely: the worst-case error should be minimized. Single points of failure can easily spoil things.EvaRia wrote:
Most of the older and easier maps are incredibly stable already. There's less, not more incentive to play them based on what I'm describing.
The incentive is to do better in maps that NOT stabilized.
This doesn't necessarily have to be part of the ppv2 algorithm but could be a way of building something like a dynamic chart consisting of the most relevant scoreboards.
If you can give me a detailed explanation of what you have in mind, then don't hestitate to send me some paragraphs per PM. I'm talking about precise definitions of what "unstable" would be and how the scores should be weighted according to it. I'm curious.Are you 100%ly sure, that your pp didn't change, or did it simply not display any change in-game? Because if it displays in your best-performance list, then it definitely gets included in the calculation for your pp value.Nagashurai wrote:
I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.
My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.
Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
Regarding the rank 36 notification in your profile: Either it is connected to scores getting removed from said map after you achieved rank 36 (unlikely) or it is indeed a bug. That one doesn't have to do with pp and it would be great if you could report it as a bug in the appropriate subforum.
Yes, I am positive that my pp did not change at all. I had my internet page up on my profile and updated it as soon as the score was made. I thought it would take a few hours to submit and take affect, so I waited the night and even played a couple of beatmaps today to see if it would update. my pp has remained at 4761 before and after the score was made.
I will go to a report forum about that other issue since it has occurred on several beatmaps for me now. Probably due to players that have had no activity for a while and the system still keeps their score or something.
It's the same for me, I set 3 scores that would have given me a large amount of TP points, just now! Yet they didn't give me any pp at all, not even 1? This is probably a bugNagashurai wrote:
I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.
My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.
Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
Topic Starter
I took the time to download all your pp values, including your new score and ran the algorithm on everything. It outputs the exact tp, that you currently have. I double checked everything to be correct - even wrote the part of the algorithm that merges your scores to your total pp again on the fly.Nagashurai wrote:
Yes, I am positive that my pp did not change at all. I had my internet page up on my profile and updated it as soon as the score was made. I thought it would take a few hours to submit and take affect, so I waited the night and even played a couple of beatmaps today to see if it would update. my pp has remained at 4761 before and after the score was made.
I will go to a report forum about that other issue since it has occurred on several beatmaps for me now. Probably due to players that have had no activity for a while and the system still keeps their score or something.
This must be an error on your side.
Just did the same for you - your pp value is also correctly considering all your scores.Could This Be wrote:
It's the same for me, I set 3 scores that would have given me a large amount of TP points, just now! Yet they didn't give me any pp at all, not even 1? This is probably a bug
I won't repeat this process for anyone who asks, please be careful before you say you are 100%ly sure.
SPOILER
Thank you for taking the time to calculate it out. I'll have to make a new record on a similar beatmap to find out for sure if this happens then.Tom94 wrote:
I took the time to download all your pp values, including your new score and ran the algorithm on everything. It outputs the exact tp, that you currently have. I double checked everything to be correct - even wrote the part of the algorithm that merges your scores to your total pp again on the fly.Nagashurai wrote:
Yes, I am positive that my pp did not change at all. I had my internet page up on my profile and updated it as soon as the score was made. I thought it would take a few hours to submit and take affect, so I waited the night and even played a couple of beatmaps today to see if it would update. my pp has remained at 4761 before and after the score was made.
I will go to a report forum about that other issue since it has occurred on several beatmaps for me now. Probably due to players that have had no activity for a while and the system still keeps their score or something.
This must be an error on your side.Just did the same for you - your pp value is also correctly considering all your scores.Could This Be wrote:
It's the same for me, I set 3 scores that would have given me a large amount of TP points, just now! Yet they didn't give me any pp at all, not even 1? This is probably a bug
I won't repeat this process for anyone who asks, please be careful before you say you are 100%ly sure.
ThisSalvage wrote:
I really think that having the speed, acc and aim thing here as well will help every player to know what they lack and how to improve, since tp and pp now are really like each other whenever i want to farm pp i'd go to tp and see what gives me points and the most important thing, WHY it gives me points (high speed, aim etc) and that way i'm recognizing the 'training' i'm doing to increase my ranking.
the new pp system heavily weighted on jumps that makes tablet user's easier to get pp D:
Not sure if this fits here. But
this thing, seems to break at midnight.
Edit:
Seems like it's actually when using local ranking.
this thing, seems to break at midnight.
Edit:
Seems like it's actually when using local ranking.
Why would it be harder to do jumps as a mouse user? The only thing that's easier for tablet is longer songs.snosey wrote:
the new pp system heavily weighted on jumps that makes tablet user's easier to get pp D:
Aiming is harder on a mouse because every mouse on the market has sensors that are gimmicky.Almost wrote:
Why would it be harder to do jumps as a mouse user? The only thing that's easier for tablet is longer songs.snosey wrote:
the new pp system heavily weighted on jumps that makes tablet user's easier to get pp D:
Theres a few without prediction issues, but a lot of mouses that are sold today have either acceleration, some smoothing effect, or faulty tracking.
A lot of these problems can be fixed with practice, but every time someone gets a new mouse they have to readjust their muscle memory to that sensor.
I have always said mouse is harder to learn, but has the same mastery level.
On topic though, this system is great. The only thing i dislike is that hards are still weighed higher than on tp but thats fine.
Ah Thanks, I appreciate it !Tom94 wrote:
Just did the same for you - your pp value is also correctly considering all your scores.
I won't repeat this process for anyone who asks, please be careful before you say you are 100%ly sure.
It seems no matter how bad my score is in a beatmap I always get a minimum amount of pp though I just played the latest qualified beatmap and didn't win any pp at all. Can you explain this please? I'm staying away from qualified beatmaps until I get an answer.
Qualified beatmaps don't give pp.Kasugunai wrote:
It seems no matter how bad my score is in a beatmap I always get a minimum amount of pp though I just played the latest qualified beatmap and didn't win any pp at all. Can you explain this please? I'm staying away from qualified beatmaps until I get an answer.
Not sure if they do in the new system, but they did in ppv1Could This Be wrote:
Qualified beatmaps don't give pp.Kasugunai wrote:
It seems no matter how bad my score is in a beatmap I always get a minimum amount of pp though I just played the latest qualified beatmap and didn't win any pp at all. Can you explain this please? I'm staying away from qualified beatmaps until I get an answer.
Is there a few hour delay (3-6, maybe more) for pp updates on some songs? I've played a few and recieved immediate pp updates and others, some scores that I consider quite well for myself, I recieve no pp.
I thought I was just getting no pp yesterday but today when I checked the site on my phone I moved a few hundred ranks from the time I got off yesterday.
New system is great, now hard farming or being good enough for top 50 on insanes isn't a requirement to receive a more skill-based ranking.
I thought I was just getting no pp yesterday but today when I checked the site on my phone I moved a few hundred ranks from the time I got off yesterday.
New system is great, now hard farming or being good enough for top 50 on insanes isn't a requirement to receive a more skill-based ranking.
I agree with you to a some point. rather, now DT + HR is valued highly based on what i see. HD + FL are less weighted.snosey wrote:
the new pp system heavily weighted on jumps that makes tablet user's easier to get pp D:
Also, i think this system is not too perfect, since it's still based on "how much you play". e.g : with same skill, someone's pp may be higher than the other. in ppv1, they can still compete (iirc). This is giving a casual player a burden imo, since you need to play many songs. Well I'm not certain on this one
And last, why i am saying this things. Winshley ----> i dont think a person who can SS paraparamaxI is this even the correct title (30 mins + marathon songs) with Hidden are suited to stay in 8k. All of his play are silver SS , so this is why I'm saying that HD FL are weighted less. well in my opinion he deserves something higher. and hell he didnt even now who am i. TAT
Well, just voicing out my opinions.
Coffee Hero
Also, i think this system is not too perfect, since it's still based on "how much you play". e.g : with same skill, someone's pp may be higher than the other. in ppv1, they can still compete (iirc). This is giving a casual player a burden imo, since you need to play many songs. Well I'm not certain on this one
This is just something that happens naturally. Even if you ranked up quickly the people that played more would just rank up even more.
Topic Starter
Currently the newest of the newest maps need a little bit to get added into the difficulty database. Even if your scores don't yield immediate pp results they will eventually get reprocessed after some time or whenever you make another highscore and then added to your pp.Kasugunai wrote:
It seems no matter how bad my score is in a beatmap I always get a minimum amount of pp though I just played the latest qualified beatmap and didn't win any pp at all. Can you explain this please? I'm staying away from qualified beatmaps until I get an answer.
Also I am pretty sure, that qualified beatmaps do give pp.
There is a very small pp bonus for every new highscore, that you make (one per map), which gets lower the more highscores you have in total. This means, that practicing multiple maps is rewarding for newer players while becoming less and less significant the more maps you played. Pretty much any high-ranked player won't profit from this anymore.
Topic Starter
The ranks you gained were more likely connected to more inactive players being removed.nyrox wrote:
Is there a few hour delay (3-6, maybe more) for pp updates on some songs? I've played a few and recieved immediate pp updates and others, some scores that I consider quite well for myself, I recieve no pp.
I thought I was just getting no pp yesterday but today when I checked the site on my phone I moved a few hundred ranks from the time I got off yesterday.
New system is great, now hard farming or being good enough for top 50 on insanes isn't a requirement to receive a more skill-based ranking.
Great job with the new system, glad to see playing insanes instead of hards paid off XD~
My apologies if this has been asked before (A single-sentence answer will suffice), will a score with less accuracy +HD which ranks higher, give more PP than an S/SS with higher accuracy, no HD? I have SS/S ranks that are lower than S/A's +HD, and I'm positive I can easily slap on an HD to raise the score a ton but lose my SS/accuracy.
On a related note, would an "exponential drop" in accuracy but increase in score add or take away PP? (Accuracy was said to increase PP exponentially previously) The current system says it takes your best score, and I'm sure all of us have experienced those 1-miss 99.--% non-FC scores. How would lowering accuracy (Say, by 3% to a 97%) but increasing combo (both FC and non-FC) affect it? In other words, if you beat your high-score with a lower accuracy, would that lower your PP? (How heavily is accuracy weighted compared with score/combo)
My apologies if this has been asked before (A single-sentence answer will suffice), will a score with less accuracy +HD which ranks higher, give more PP than an S/SS with higher accuracy, no HD? I have SS/S ranks that are lower than S/A's +HD, and I'm positive I can easily slap on an HD to raise the score a ton but lose my SS/accuracy.
On a related note, would an "exponential drop" in accuracy but increase in score add or take away PP? (Accuracy was said to increase PP exponentially previously) The current system says it takes your best score, and I'm sure all of us have experienced those 1-miss 99.--% non-FC scores. How would lowering accuracy (Say, by 3% to a 97%) but increasing combo (both FC and non-FC) affect it? In other words, if you beat your high-score with a lower accuracy, would that lower your PP? (How heavily is accuracy weighted compared with score/combo)
Trying to farm Insanes with mods half decently (I mean w/o perfect accuracy) but only decreasing in ranking to other people :/ also older maps don't give pp right?
^same question as nooblet. How does the new accuracy system work....? Yesterday I got 1-2% off my overall accuracy and it took quite a chunk off my overall, but today when I got around a 3-4% deviance, it barely fell. And I've been playing some insanes/hards, and even when I get top 1000, I barely rise, or sometimes I don't rise at all. I know that maps are weighted with difficulty, but after getting rank 700/800s on hards&insanes, I only go up around 1-10 ranks.nooblet wrote:
Great job with the new system, glad to see farming insanes instead of hards paid off XD~
My apologies if this has been asked before (A single-sentence answer will suffice), will a score with less accuracy +HD which ranks higher, give more PP than an S/SS with higher accuracy, no HD? I have SS/S ranks that are lower than S/A's +HD, and I'm positive I can easily slap on an HD to raise the score a ton but lose my SS/accuracy.
On a related note, would an "exponential drop" in accuracy but increase in score add or take away PP? (Accuracy was said to increase PP exponentially previously) The current system says it takes your best score, and I'm sure all of us have experienced those 1-miss 99.--% non-FC scores. How would lowering accuracy (Say, by 3% to a 97%) but increasing combo (both FC and non-FC) affect it? In other words, if you beat your high-score with a lower accuracy, would that lower your PP? (How heavily is accuracy weighted compared with score/combo)
I played a song yesterday, and beat my A 95% with a B 90%(higher combo+score), and went down like 2pp.nooblet wrote:
In other words, if you beat your high-score with a lower accuracy, would that lower your PP? (How heavily is accuracy weighted compared with score/combo)
The old pp system did this too. ppv2/pp doesn't factor in the score that gives the most pp, it factors in the one with the higher score. Your new score beat your old one in points, so it was factored in, but gave fewer pp because it sucked anyway. So in a way, you can be punished for playing badly, but it's minor.Triskelion91 wrote:
I played a song yesterday, and beat my A 95% with a B 90%(higher combo+score), and went down like 2pp.nooblet wrote:
In other words, if you beat your high-score with a lower accuracy, would that lower your PP? (How heavily is accuracy weighted compared with score/combo)
is there a decimal pp amount or is everything not at least 1 treated at 0? ie I SS 10 insanes nomod and get .1 pp for each, so at the end I go up 1 pp
I think it'd be cool to have bigger values, so we could see the minor changes after playing a map
Even if we earn 1pp over 52'873, it's better than not seeing the 0.1pp over 5'287 imo
Even if we earn 1pp over 52'873, it's better than not seeing the 0.1pp over 5'287 imo
i'd rather be able to see the decimal value and keep it relatively small, but everyones different etc
Or that, doesn't change anything anyway. But I like big numbers ;_;Soulg wrote:
i'd rather be able to see the decimal value and keep it relatively small, but everyones different etc
A suggestion that probably wouldn't be able to be implemented any time soon (if at all, who knows how much space and processing power peppy has for scores), based on this quote.
Other things people suggested that can possibly replace this is displaying the computed difficulty stats of a map in the client. That way people trying to find the best gains (or looking to improve their acc/aim/speed) can see what the best mods to use are (kind of an analog to those looking for points being able see the multipliers for their score with different mods turned on).
--edit to remove "farm"--
Overall I'm loving the new pp system, I gained 24k ranks woo~
The new system does not just multiply the value of map when adding mods, it calculates a whole new difficulty with the mods. For example, if you're playing a map with DoubleTime, then the algorithm will calculate a new difficulty value of the map, considering it to be 1.5x as fast.Since these are calculated as a whole new difficulty, why not save each mod combination's score on its own for performance purposes? Everyone can still vie for top ranks with the current score multipliers but they will still get Speed fro their DT play, and Acc from their HR play, etc, etc. Then everyone is happy and if later you get to see what pp/Speed/Acc/Aim you got from a rank you can see what each mod combination gave you.
Other things people suggested that can possibly replace this is displaying the computed difficulty stats of a map in the client. That way people trying to find the best gains (or looking to improve their acc/aim/speed) can see what the best mods to use are (kind of an analog to those looking for points being able see the multipliers for their score with different mods turned on).
--edit to remove "farm"--
Overall I'm loving the new pp system, I gained 24k ranks woo~
Please stop using the term "farm". It's shocking and wrong and has such a bad connotation.
Just no @ the tablet part, but I've found that the new system definitely favours jumps. I've been looking at peoples profiles who are a similar rank of my own and trying to copy their scores (got 900 ranks on the day of release doing this hehe) and I've found that after looking at 15~ maps, pretty much all of them are maps with more jumps than your average insane.snosey wrote:
the new pp system heavily weighted on jumps that makes tablet user's easier to get pp D:
Maybe a pros and cons list from me
Pros:
-Now that pp calculates based on difficulty and EVERY score you get counts, you can play a song whenever, and if you beat your score, and/or you play a new song and pass, that score affects your rank.
-Ranking is a LOT more casual now and LESS STRESSFUL
-Ranks reflect your skill.
-A story a friend on Osu told me: This friend is good at this game. He plays a lot of INSANE maps. Sometime ago (or recently, idk) someone was looking down on him for being bad at osu. This person went from top 500 to 11k because he only played tons of Hard maps for his rank. My friend's Insane map ranks beat the other guy's ample Hard ranks. This proves the "skill" base for ranking.
-I feel like I am deserving of my rank and that it reflects my skill level.
-Better scores, but poor accuracy=lower skill. I AGREE with this, no matter how much it saddens me that my lucky passes no longer count as much.
Cons:
-The maps displayed under the Top Ranks bar in my profile, are probably based off of my score and accuracy compared to the difficulty of the map.
Now, I have a question.
Does the Top Ranks list maps that I may have gotten B's or C's on there because the map was really difficult? Or is it because I ranked in the top 1000 for that difficulty, and there weren't any maps that I had better scores on that were HARDER than the B or C I got?
Pros:
-Now that pp calculates based on difficulty and EVERY score you get counts, you can play a song whenever, and if you beat your score, and/or you play a new song and pass, that score affects your rank.
-Ranking is a LOT more casual now and LESS STRESSFUL
-Ranks reflect your skill.
-A story a friend on Osu told me: This friend is good at this game. He plays a lot of INSANE maps. Sometime ago (or recently, idk) someone was looking down on him for being bad at osu. This person went from top 500 to 11k because he only played tons of Hard maps for his rank. My friend's Insane map ranks beat the other guy's ample Hard ranks. This proves the "skill" base for ranking.
-I feel like I am deserving of my rank and that it reflects my skill level.
-Better scores, but poor accuracy=lower skill. I AGREE with this, no matter how much it saddens me that my lucky passes no longer count as much.
Cons:
-The maps displayed under the Top Ranks bar in my profile, are probably based off of my score and accuracy compared to the difficulty of the map.
Now, I have a question.
Does the Top Ranks list maps that I may have gotten B's or C's on there because the map was really difficult? Or is it because I ranked in the top 1000 for that difficulty, and there weren't any maps that I had better scores on that were HARDER than the B or C I got?
To my understanding, the reason the Star system is flawed is solely because of things like jumps. Based on just observation, it looks like star difficulty will skyrocket if you refrain from following the guidelines of Distance Spacing when mapping (of course, that's not the ONLY factor).Rewben2 wrote:
Just no @ the tablet part, but I've found that the new system definitely favours jumps. I've been looking at peoples profiles who are a similar rank of my own and trying to copy their scores (got 900 ranks on the day of release doing this hehe) and I've found that after looking at 15~ maps, pretty much all of them are maps with more jumps than your average insane.snosey wrote:
the new pp system heavily weighted on jumps that makes tablet user's easier to get pp D:
It calculates how well you did on the map and the difficulty of the map in a similar way that tp does, and if the system calculates that getting a B/C on a very hard map is worth more than some of your other scores, then the ones you got B/C's on will be in your top performance. So yes, you could say it was because you didn't have any other better scores. You don't need to rank sub-1000 in a song for it to be in your top rankings, majority of my maps in top rankings aren't. As far as I know, it has nothing to do with how well you stack up against other people, it's all calculated based on the difficulty of the map, mods and how well you did.Tsuchimikado wrote:
Does the Top Ranks list maps that I may have gotten B's or C's on there because the map was really difficult? Or is it because I ranked in the top 1000 for that difficulty, and there weren't any maps that I had better scores on that were HARDER than the B or C I got?
Also,
I've read that pp is whole, but I could be wrong. I would also prefer if it was like this.GoldenWolf wrote:
I think it'd be cool to have bigger values, so we could see the minor changes after playing a map
Even if we earn 1pp over 52'873, it's better than not seeing the 0.1pp over 5'287 imo
as a Finnish farmer who grows potatoes I'm appalled by the misuse of this termpeppy wrote:
Please stop using the term "farm". It's shocking and wrong and has such a bad connotation.
no potatoes for osu! players
Hehe. Maybe I'm just bad.Rewben2 wrote:
You don't need to rank sub-1000 in a song for it to be in your top rankings, majority of my maps in top rankings aren't.
Figured as much as this. Last thing though, you know those arrows next to ranks now? They list the amount of time from present to when you got that score. I have only seen arrows that point up. Can they point down, indicating that it negatively affects your rank (also, does that mean the arrow pointing up means that it positively influences your rank)?Rewben2 wrote:
As far as I know, it has nothing to do with how well you stack up against other people, it's all calculated based on the difficulty of the map, mods and how well you did.
yes the arrow signifies Heaven and is a call for all of us players to thank the all-mighty God for having allowed us to loiter around and click circles
if the arrow is pointing downwards it means you've made Jehovah mad.
if the arrow is pointing downwards it means you've made Jehovah mad.
I'm pretty sure you can't lose ranks from doing badly and the arrow direction doesn't mean anything, I think it's just there. I might be completely wrong though.Tsuchimikado wrote:
Hehe. Maybe I'm just bad.Rewben2 wrote:
You don't need to rank sub-1000 in a song for it to be in your top rankings, majority of my maps in top rankings aren't.Figured as much as this. Last thing though, you know those arrows next to ranks now? They list the amount of time from present to when you got that score. I have only seen arrows that point up. Can they point down, indicating that it negatively affects your rank (also, does that mean the arrow pointing up means that it positively influences your rank)?Rewben2 wrote:
As far as I know, it has nothing to do with how well you stack up against other people, it's all calculated based on the difficulty of the map, mods and how well you did.
thelewa pls
Just to elaborate on this.Salvage wrote:
I really think that having the speed, acc and aim thing here as well will help every player to know what they lack and how to improve, since tp and pp now are really like each other whenever i want to farm pp i'd go to tp and see what gives me points and the most important thing, WHY it gives me points (high speed, aim etc) and that way i'm recognizing the 'training' i'm doing to increase my ranking. (And with this i mean we should be able to see that here too, it's not a big deal but since maps are calculated in another way here, there is a difference from what we're seeing on osutp.net and what we would be seeing here)
We currently have "difficulty information" presented on the beatmap page in terms of Circle Size, HP Drain, Accuracy, Star Difficulty, etc. These aspects are not relevant to a map's difficulty so much anymore, and I would like to see more technical stats like TP's aim/speed/acc there as well. (Ok so we HAD a new bar) The new bar was useful to a certain degree, but it doesn't contain any information. What I mean is: I don't know where my skill sits on that bar... that bar needs to be related back to our pp in some way, so that players can determine maps around their skill level or slightly higher.
Now that <Insert shocking word here> is done with, new players need to be given a direction in which to improve their rank, otherwise they will continue to play as normal and never understand why they aren't ranking up, leading to more forum posts. Yes we should play for fun, but results are also important and many people play for both. This is a new system. The way of ranking up is different too.
Unfortunately the star system makes it difficult to find any appropriate maps for these players to play slightly above their level, and many just dive into the deep-end of streaming and jumping, hoping to eventually improve, even after a year. People have been doing this for a long time already... it's bad and direction is needed. The popularity of my gdoc lists is an example of how hard it is to find appropriate maps for improving.
I can't tell if the new ranking is working fine for everyone, my previous rank was 9k, now I'm 8k (my tp rank is 11k).
I don't deserve all of them tbh.
Something is pretty frustrating with this ranking... I mean, my #10 Best Performance are so bad.
One of them is old like 8 month ago.
8 month ago is exactly when I got my tablet (my mechanical 2 month later) and I started to play the game " seriously " .
I'm feeling like I have not improving my play that much. What I did during those 8 month ?
I have to work harder ! ヽ(*≧ω≦)ﾉ
(And the game don't want to upload any of my plays since 48h.)
/mylife
I don't deserve all of them tbh.
Something is pretty frustrating with this ranking... I mean, my #10 Best Performance are so bad.
One of them is old like 8 month ago.
8 month ago is exactly when I got my tablet (my mechanical 2 month later) and I started to play the game " seriously " .
I'm feeling like I have not improving my play that much. What I did during those 8 month ?
I have to work harder ! ヽ(*≧ω≦)ﾉ
(And the game don't want to upload any of my plays since 48h.)
/mylife
Just like before, play more and get betterKinji wrote:
How do you gain pp now?
In a similar way you gain tp, you get good ranks.Kinji wrote:
How do you gain pp now?
If you want an actual method, look at profiles of people ranked similar to yourself and try and beat their scores, or get a similar score. This is all I've been doing and I gained 900 ranks yesterday and 600 today, and my "top performance" is pretty much filled with maps from this time. I'm not even trying hard, I've beaten some scores in 3 or less tries and gained 150 ranks for the map. Easy.
rly gud
I just don't like the ranking system.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.
However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.
Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.
However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.
Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.
969363565 wrote:
I just don't like the ranking system.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.
However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.
Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.
Tom94 wrote:
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
I like it more than the original pp but still there are some confusing delay of scores... I was #1112 this morning, went to get a #2 in an Insane diff no mod then I drop to 1118... shortly after I get a no mod #4 at a Hard diff and suddenly went to 1090.
Topic Starter
There are still initial bug-fixes and fine-tuning things happening. Please be patient for the next few days / weeks for it to stabilize a bit more.makkura wrote:
I like it more than the original pp but still there are some confusing delay of scores... I was #1112 this morning, went to get a #2 in an Insane diff no mod then I drop to 1118... shortly after I get a no mod #4 at a Hard diff and suddenly went to 1090.
Nice ranking system Tom! I have 0 (zero (null)) complaints about it. In ppv1 I was rank 10k... when ppv2 was implemented I dropped to rank 17k, which was ok since I know I didn't deserve rank 10k. Then I played >>> https://osu.ppy.sh/s/57950 <<< on Lunatic, finished it with a decent combo (873) and although my accuracy was really bad (95%), I skyrocketed to rank 13k... just from playing one song! So, yeah, keep up the good work!
Most, if not all of your flashlight scores are apparently normal and easy maps, while the ones in top performance are insane and hard. System working as planned?969363565 wrote:
[...]
I just want to complain.
WHY WOULD YOU DELETE MY AWESOME SCORE?????????
i like it
Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
gg peppy and crew -.-
Not sure, but I gained some pp and lost some accuracy as well from playing.Symqn wrote:
Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
I would be interested in how sliderbreaks are treated (combo breaking ones and just -1 combo ones).
I think there's a lot of tweaking/adding/updating going on right now, my pp increased this morning despite me not having even opened the client for over 24 hours. My "Top Performances" changed as well. I'm guessing we should give it some time to finish processing and stabilize.Symqn wrote:
Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
With regards to the highest-performance vs highest-score problem, would it be possible to run a pp-value check after every play (regardless of score) and compare it to the pp-value of the current high score? And if the new play is a higher value, to update the pp accordingly even if high score doesn't change?
I admittedly don't know much about what calculations are done client-side vs server-side, or whether pp is calculated from scratch after every play, or anything like that (I'd be very interested to know, actually, if you have time and if that's disclosable), so I can't suggest much in terms of efficiency. My guess is that there's a table of high scores for every player on the server, and that pp is recalculated each time this table is updated...in this case, the only way to implement this higher-pp vs higher-score idea would be to store a new table of highest-pp scores for every player, which would be very memory-expensive (as I think you mentioned somewhere earlier). The only way I can see to get around this would be to migrate the pp calculations to the client-side, but I don't know how feasible that would be.
I've tried to see if I can get any pp at all. Played a bunch of maps, mostly newly ranked with streams and jumps. Got decent acc and ranks, ended up with 0pp. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong? Is it not real time? I'm confused.
Are all the older maps calculated into the current scores? Or are they still updating? Or do you have to replay some to get them reincluded?
I think it takes time before your pp updates because when I got a top performance a few days ago it took some time before it showed in my performace history. I'm guessing it updates every few hours or so?Natteke wrote:
I've tried to see if I can get any pp at all. Played a bunch of maps, mostly newly ranked with streams and jumps. Got decent acc and ranks, ended up with 0pp. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong? Is it not real time? I'm confused.
I don't know how it works and what should working as planned be like. I'm sure that I have scores that are insane +FL and hard +DTFL, but they are still defeated by the none scores.Draxuss wrote:
Most, if not all of your flashlight scores are apparently normal and easy maps, while the ones in top performance are insane and hard. System working as planned?
Thanks a lot. I hadn't read the early replies.Rewben2 wrote:
Tom94 wrote:
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
However, if flashlight can only get a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim, should DT get a huge bonus only in maps which have high BPM? I don't think DT is much harder than FL, especially in some slow and long maps.
By the way, how about the maps which don't have that many streams and jumps but are hard to read? Is this kind of difficulty considered?
Theoretically, DT should already only give huge bonus in maps which are harder to begin with. It doesn't add a % multiplier - the difficulty is recalculated from scratch with DT in effect - the same as if you were playing a version mapped at 1.5x speed with no mods. So if a map is slow to begin with, the difficulty won't be that high even with DT.969363565 wrote:
However, if flashlight can only get a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim, should DT get a huge bonus only in maps which have high BPM? I don't think DT is much harder than FL, especially in some slow and long maps.
Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?
Metro wrote:
Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?
That would give too much ranking to some countries with only 1 player
I think the speed of the map (1/2 notes) with how jumpy it is should play a big part in the FL's bonus system.Tom94 wrote:
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.Kert wrote:
And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
http://osutp.net/scores?bid=154889
This is one of the most impressive FL scores yet due to the speed of the map along with its jumps (normally FL scores are on fairly slow maps), but we can see that the system didn't treat Dungeon kindly in comparison to the competition.
Sorry if it was mentioned before, the thread grew quite a bit and didn't want to look through all 17 pages.
True. But the country rankings are much different than in osu!tp, that's why I'm asking.Full Tablet wrote:
Metro wrote:
Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?
That would give too much ranking to some countries with only 1 player
I know that feel brodedaloodak wrote:
4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
Mine 5k#>>>>18k#
Just fun playing is now not an option, just keep retrying your insane maps dude
