Kaoru wrote:
Alas though, peppy has a god complex
official =/= acceptedKaoru wrote:
Wishy: we care because it is the official and accepted ranking system.
update 2: i’ve cancelled rollout of any new ranking system for now. will try again after you guys forget your old ranks.I don't understand how this is supposed to help at all. I'm hope you realize that most of the people complaining about the ranking are the ones who are pretty obsessed about the game, who will probably remember their ppv1 rank for as long as they continue to play the game seriously.
I think it's very unfair of you to lock the thread before allowing the OP to at least reply to what you had to say in regards to her post. I'm fairly certain she was aware of ppv2 not being implemented and ppv1 being broken, but that does not invalidate any of her arguements. You also fail to understand the fact that some people play games for that one number- competition is considered fun by many, and it's not just a vicious battle against other players. Quitting is an extreme solution, but Elysion probably has her own reasons outside of ppv2 to quit.If they play for competition, they should have quite over the last few months. There was no way to make pp on new maps, after all.
Maybe if you completely deprecated ranked metrics outside of score, a competitive ladder, chart rankings, and map-specific rankings, people like Elysion wouldn't complain, or quit. Even if you take the ranking system out, the players will still be concerned about the future release of the ranking system. Since it's incomplete, players are going to worry what their rank is going to look like when it IS finally complete. It would be better off to have nothing than the ranks that are showing up in the client right now. I feel like the system itself is unnecessary as it is now.That's the plan, going forward. Chill and watch on.
You seem to have your own ideas that everyone is misinformed and never pays full attention to your posts and everything going on regarding the ranking system. We have enough of an attention span to read news posts regarding your game and make compelling arguements about what we want done with it. It feels like you're underestimating the intelligence of the community as a whole, rushing to conclusions and locking threads without giving anything proper consideration or trying to hold a civil discussion or arguement. I know a lot of people like to instigate drama and it's hard to achieve stuff like that over a forum post (and I'm even a little guilty of that here; I'm posting after you locked a thread) but I'd like to see you acknowledge some of the community's opinions on what should be done with the ranking system.The disabling of pp was to avoid it getting any further incorrect than it is. I stated this in the opening line of my post. What followed was people blindly complaining about v2 (which was visible for a short period, before calculations were even run). All I can take from this is that no one read the post.
(I really don't want to be the person who has to post this and call you stubborn regarding these issues. While it may be exclusively my opinion, I would deign to say that some of the community agrees. Apologies for expressing myself. And apologies for any drama this may or may not cause.)I am stubborn, because I believe in the direction I am taking the game. And after almost eight years, if you don't have a bit of faith then you should probably reconsider what the hell you are doing here?
rushing to conclusions and locking threads without giving anything proper consideration or trying to hold a civil discussion or arguement.You guys ARE rushing in to conclusion. If you want to lodge a formal complaint, you should do so a month after trying the new system. It has been less than a day and has not even been implemented yet.
You also fail to understand the fact that some people play games for that one numberIf it was that important, I'm sure people would be able to exploit the new system as well. Why be bothered about it anyway if you are confident about your skill? Just learn the system as you did with ppv1 and rise up in ranks.
(I really don't want to be the person who has to post this and call you stubborn regarding these issues. While it may be exclusively my opinion, I would deign to say that some of the community agrees. Apologies for expressing myself. And apologies for any drama this may or may not cause.)Be patient, you are also being stubborn about something that hasn't been implemented.
Except they're never going to forget about it. If you have an infected wound, just putting a piece of cloth over it won't help - in fact, it'll make it even worse for when you do decide to take the cloth off.This doesn't bother me. People get used to change. Were you here when I switched from ranked score to pp? It was worse than this .
Maybe the system is good, and maybe it's bad but I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you're THAT confident your new system is good, there's no reason why you should ever have to roll it back like this.I am confident it is more accurate when it is completely calculated, and when you understand its purpose. That said, it has a very different purpose to v1, so without making people aware of that, rolling it out just causes a mess.
Horo is a great example of someone who was still gaming the system and making pp off of it. New maps may not have provided pp, but it was still very possible to use that ranking metric. A lot of competitive players still existed even after ppv1 updates stopped.peppy wrote:
If they play for competition, they should have quite over the last few months. There was no way to make pp on new maps, after all.
I'm waiting.peppy wrote:
That's the plan, going forward. Chill and watch on.
I am a skeptic therefore I never have any faith. You have to earn my trust by yielding results. I sincerely hope you can take the game in a good direction, otherwise my complaints will have been for nothing.peppy wrote:
I am stubborn, because I believe in the direction I am taking the game. And after almost eight years, if you don't have a bit of faith then you should probably reconsider what the hell you are doing here?
Accepted? Some randoms accept it, anyone who actually knows a little bit about the game follows TP.Kaoru wrote:
Wishy: we care because it is the official and accepted ranking system. TP is incomplete as well because the API does not allow it to calculate scores beyond the top 50.
Peppy has the right to do whatever the hell he wants but as long as people are buying Osu! supporter and peppy plans to develop Osu! as a living he should keep the ranking system working and fix bugged elements of the game in a timely matter. Making Osu! isn't peppy's hobby while he works full-time for a major company and he isn't a saint for making a free game without ads. Osu! is just a regular competitive games and if he doesn't want all the competitors to quit he should worry less about removing posts and fix his game as fast as possible.Trash Boat wrote:
nice discussion, i never saw peppy that active. the only thing i can say is that peppy is a human, like all in this site. he can't do magic or miracles, but he brought us an awesome game. imperfect but awesome. he has the right to take his time to fix any issues he may find without any complaints
It's still a hobby to me?Wishy wrote:
As far as I knew peppy quit his job to work full-time on osu!. This is a business lol it isn't some kind of hobby.
I believe I can almost quote him when he said something along the lines of "Osu! isn't just a hobby anymore" he did in fact say he quit his job to work full time on Osu! But I mean by definition, it's still his hobby.Wishy wrote:
As far as I knew peppy quit his job to work full-time on osu!. This is a business lol it isn't some kind of hobby.
I mean, he probably does code Osu in his free time for pleasure - making it a hobby technically :/ Basketball players play basketball as a hobby and a job, no?Wishy wrote:
Guess it depends on what you consider a hobby. If osu! is your main occupation then it's not a hobby.
^ This.Myke B wrote:
I mean, he probably does code Osu in his free time for pleasure - making it a hobby technically :/ Basketball players play basketball as a hobby and a job, no?Wishy wrote:
Guess it depends on what you consider a hobby. If osu! is your main occupation then it's not a hobby.
Calm down. People will barely get used to changed instantly. Be a bit more patient with them.peppy wrote:
If you take "play for fun while next version is ready" as an insult, then please, be me guest and use the uninstall button.
You guys are so spoilt >_<
To be 100% honest, I more concerned with how long the "final" product will take. Because once it's done, then we can tell you what we do or don't like, and the reply won't be "it's not done". Just my opinion, but I really do thank you Peppy for being active in the post.peppy wrote:
If you take "play for fun while next version is ready" as an insult, then please, be my guest and use the uninstall button.
You guys are so spoilt >_<
I felt like adding more than the top 500 was a decent addition for the "average hard players" I mean, they should feel a gain, but they can't expect to make much of gain casually playing hard maps :/Loctav wrote:
Calm down. People will barely get used to changed instantly. Be a bit more patient with them.peppy wrote:
If you take "play for fun while next version is ready" as an insult, then please, be me guest and use the uninstall button.
You guys are so spoilt >_<
Actually I like how this discussion goes but considering that the competitive gameplay should be focussed on tournament-like gameplay, the new pp is having a different direction, focussing more on the "gaining feedback when succeeding on a map" and less in measuring the skill of a player.
Player skill has various layers and it's hard to be summed up in a value, even Tom's metrics has it's flaws. It might measure the skill of each player quite good, but it's incapable to work for the broad mass of the players (the average Hard players, the Insane players who do not arrive in the top of the ladderboards).
Considering the general idea of the ppv2, it seems to allow to be farmable way more. In ppv1, farming it was like "circumventing it's purpose" and "misdirecting the measurement by fooling it". In ppv2, it seems like people are supposed to be rewarded to single successes. It tends to be more like the Ranked-Score we had in the past, but tbh the Ranked Score kept people way better here (grinding stuff is always attractive to an extend). We all know that this isnt measuring the SKILL of a player appropriately, but that's not even the point of the system.
I can understand that the top-tier players really do not want to have farmers above pro players. Absolutely understandable. But a ranking system is always like walking a tightrope. For me and many other average players, who can not highrank on Insanes (or do not even want to try it - like me), they don't feel any gain, no matter how much they improve (considering that for my side, I can play a lot of intense shit but my ranking was not moving at all). I know that my skill might not have been improved a lot, but I need some gainful feedback to keep me playing it. I need the progress, and many others do. And many others loved it (during Ranked Score). Ppv2 is doing the same with limiting the farmability a bit. It considers difficulty more. Not only the hitobjects amount and achieveable highest combo.
I also want to mention that the current rankings are like "not done" yet, it seems. It's weird to draw conclusions right now.
For the competitive gameplay, the ranking charts are a good chance here. Unfortunately they are quite dead and unrewarding right now (not offering enough e-pencil it seems). But I am working on resurrecting this. And hopefully we can go into new directions here - and stop drowning in the sober of a seemingly broken ranking system that is prolly just misunderstood.
Expanding on this I feel like maybe its the uncertainty which is rustling everyone jimmies; People feel like they've lost something and want to know how to get it back but can't because a ranking system isn't even being implemented right now. I'm sure that once ppv2 has been released and refined it will be okay.Myke B wrote:
To be 100% honest, I more concerned with how long the "final" product will take. Because once it's done, then we can tell you what we do or don't like, and the reply won't be "it's not done". Just my opinion, but I really do thank you Peppy for being active in the post.
he already said he disabled it so you will forget about your old rankKaoru wrote:
Peppy, I think you should return pp for now that way players have an objective to play for in the interim. Playing without ranks would make the game very lackluster for some of us, and returning pp would enable anyone who cares about it to enjoy it until it is replaced. If you want to appease the players who are complaining about an official system not updating, maybe you could outsource ppv1 and do something similar to tp with it. Or make another sort of disclaimer about it being truncated and not working as intended, so that people know that it's not updating properly.
This would have been really nice to know, and would have prevented a lot of the freak-outs. I also think that PPv1 should remain instead of nothing, but with a disclaimer about the new maps not updating PP. I know it would be "pointless" as you said, but it's not for some of us :/ Constantly updating the Performance post would be extremely nice, because most of all, we just want to be in loop.peppy wrote:
The numbers tha you saw briefly weren't calculated. The processor wasn't running. I was migrating across to another branch and let v2 display briefly, before realizing it was horribly broken. Please do not base any feedback on what you may have seen. It was honestly giving maps weifhtings OPPOSITE to what it should have. As in easy would get you much more than insane+.
Seems extremely pointless imo. Just keep using TP until the updated version of V2 arrives.Kaoru wrote:
Question then: If you replace ppv1 in favor of a later version of ppv2, would it be possible to outsource the ranking system elsewhere, or keep a token of our old rank on our profiles somehow?
peppy wrote:
No. I believe on progress. You are free toake your own ranking site if you'd like to make your own take on stuff!