1. osu!community
  2. osu!
  3. Gameplay & Rankings
posted

peppy wrote:

SO let's see..

* The poster is quitting?
* They missed the part where v2 was not implemented?
* They missed the part where I openly said v1 was broken, and no maps since November last year would give correct score?
* Missing the point of playing a game if one number can make you quit?

peppy wrote:

Oh, and I don't lock stuff because I dislike the complaints. It's that the way you guys complain without reading/understanding what is going on is appalling and a waste of both our time.


I think it's very unfair of you to lock the thread before allowing the OP to at least reply to what you had to say in regards to her post. I'm fairly certain she was aware of ppv2 not being implemented and ppv1 being broken, but that does not invalidate any of her arguements. You also fail to understand the fact that some people play games for that one number- competition is considered fun by many, and it's not just a vicious battle against other players. Quitting is an extreme solution, but Elysion probably has her own reasons outside of ppv2 to quit.

Maybe if you completely deprecated ranked metrics outside of score, a competitive ladder, chart rankings, and map-specific rankings, people like Elysion wouldn't complain, or quit. Even if you take the ranking system out, the players will still be concerned about the future release of the ranking system. Since it's incomplete, players are going to worry what their rank is going to look like when it IS finally complete. It would be better off to have nothing than the ranks that are showing up in the client right now. I feel like the system itself is unnecessary as it is now.

You seem to have your own ideas that everyone is misinformed and never pays full attention to your posts and everything going on regarding the ranking system. We have enough of an attention span to read news posts regarding your game and make compelling arguements about what we want done with it. It feels like you're underestimating the intelligence of the community as a whole, rushing to conclusions and locking threads without giving anything proper consideration or trying to hold a civil discussion or arguement. I know a lot of people like to instigate drama and it's hard to achieve stuff like that over a forum post (and I'm even a little guilty of that here; I'm posting after you locked a thread) but I'd like to see you acknowledge some of the community's opinions on what should be done with the ranking system.

Alas though, peppy is stubborn and has a god complex, so this thread will inevitably be locked and I'll be silenced/ banned for having an opinion that opposes his.

(I really don't want to be the person who has to post this and call you stubborn regarding these issues. While it may be exclusively my opinion, I would deign to say that some of the community agrees. Apologies for expressing myself. And apologies for any drama this may or may not cause.)

EDIT: I have noticed that ranks are removed in the client.
posted
Posting in a locked thread.

(Also agreeing wholeheartedly)
posted
hi elysion
posted
Locked threeead incominnggg, also wholeheartedly agree with Elysion's post from before.
posted
Kind of disapointed by peppys response to silence discussion when it deserves to take place...
posted
git gud son
posted
if it gets to page 3 ill donate
posted
why is everyone mad that good players finally have the rank they deserve?
posted
Holy mother of god why the fuck do you care about pp it's gonna be broken forever since peppy is a complete newbie@the game itself and his fellow staff members are at best mediocre at it.

Just use osu!tp, it's the best you gonna get for years.
posted
The main issue for me is that peppy keeps promising stuff, and telling us to wait, yet we haven't seen results. I'd be really glad if there's some amazing finished product that lies in the future, but I think it's perfectly legitimate for us to complain when we haven't seen any results after all the promises. Yes, I do see a little bit of improvement in the current iteration of ppv2, but the improvement is so small compared to what needs to be improved that I have my expectations very low.

tl;dr: Don't act like we're all idiots and we don't see that you're promising stuff. I read the posts, I just haven't seen enough delivery on promises to feel that I should sit back and wait.
posted
The main aim I had when designing ppv2 is to allow players to progress forward. Up to a point, newbies should be able to continue increasing their ranking as they improve. The problem is, just like pp(v1), there is a cap. This cap generally matches the player’s skill, which is correct behaviour, but it also doesn’t give a player direction as for how they are to improve.

I hope to change the way competitive play is seen in osu! over the next couple of months. I would like to create something closer to what we see in other competitive games, with ladders that are bound to a certain duration, and reset at the end, with distinct winners. To allow players to challenge others directly in order to usurp their position on the ranking. To give clear goals as to where they are heading and how to get there.


I used to play a lot of Starcraft 2. There was a ladder season every few months. But when I hit a skill plateau, one of the reasons why I never got farther than that was that I was chasing after ladder points and not the individual skills + coordination that make you a better player (Unit control, strategy, macro). The randomness of winning and losing streaks clouded my judgment on whether I was getting better or worse. There is some randomness in how well you perform, the type of map, how much you've practiced it, and the opponent. Just because you're on a winning streak doesn't mean you're a better player, but it feels like that, and vice versa.

This is not a complaint against ppv2. I can see how making a challenge ranking would intensify competitive play at all levels. I mean, I could see myself forgetting about ppv1 ranks in a month or so and queing up for ranked versus matches like an excited kid on Christmas. But while the ladder system makes it exciting to improve, it doesn't give you any feedback on how to improve other than "My opponent keeps getting higher combo then me".

Tp, for the few flaws that I'm aware of, and the many more that I'm not, is the only metric out at the moment that gives feedback to player about these skills.
posted

Wishy wrote:

Holy mother of god why the fuck do you care about pp it's gonna be broken forever since peppy is a complete newbie@the game itself and his fellow staff members are at best mediocre at it.

Just use osu!tp, it's the best you gonna get for years.

Wishy: we care because it is the official and accepted ranking system. TP is incomplete as well because the API does not allow it to calculate scores beyond the top 50.

I agree that tp is a better system but I'd like to see progress with the official system as well. I think we are entitled to our complaints when we take everything into consideration.
posted

cozziekuns wrote:

why is everyone mad that good players finally have the rank they deserve?

lol

Wishy wrote:

Holy mother of god why the fuck do you care about pp it's gonna be broken forever since peppy is a complete newbie@the game itself and his fellow staff members are at best mediocre at it.

Just use osu!tp, it's the best you gonna get for years.


Yeah, wtf. Everyone was just using TP before lol. But it still does not mean people don't have the right to complain/discuss the official ranking system.
posted

Kaoru wrote:


Alas though, peppy has a god complex
posted

Kaoru wrote:

Wishy: we care because it is the official and accepted ranking system.

official =/= accepted
posted
If you think I have god complex, I cannot believe you have been in this community for more than a few months. You would know otherwise.
posted
subjective opinions on measurements of skill aside

update 2: i’ve cancelled rollout of any new ranking system for now. will try again after you guys forget your old ranks.


I don't understand how this is supposed to help at all. I'm hope you realize that most of the people complaining about the ranking are the ones who are pretty obsessed about the game, who will probably remember their ppv1 rank for as long as they continue to play the game seriously.

Obviously with a new system rolling out people are going to complain, because people usually don't like deviations from what they're used to. Think about what happens every time facebook rolls out a new change.
But what it almost looks is right now is that the criticism is overwhelming, and unable to handle said criticism, management is putting away their changes and hoping everyone forgets about it.
Except they're never going to forget about it. If you have an infected wound, just putting a piece of cloth over it won't help - in fact, it'll make it even worse for when you do decide to take the cloth off.

Maybe the system is good, and maybe it's bad but I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you're THAT confident your new system is good, there's no reason why you should ever have to roll it back like this.
posted
I think a few complaints are necessary. Without opinions on what is right and wrong with the ranking system it would be hard to guide it to a desirable result. I wouldn't care what my rank is in the new system as long as it is considered accurate.
posted
i can't live without any rank

please give me pp/pp2
posted
I think it's very unfair of you to lock the thread before allowing the OP to at least reply to what you had to say in regards to her post. I'm fairly certain she was aware of ppv2 not being implemented and ppv1 being broken, but that does not invalidate any of her arguements. You also fail to understand the fact that some people play games for that one number- competition is considered fun by many, and it's not just a vicious battle against other players. Quitting is an extreme solution, but Elysion probably has her own reasons outside of ppv2 to quit.


If they play for competition, they should have quite over the last few months. There was no way to make pp on new maps, after all.

Maybe if you completely deprecated ranked metrics outside of score, a competitive ladder, chart rankings, and map-specific rankings, people like Elysion wouldn't complain, or quit. Even if you take the ranking system out, the players will still be concerned about the future release of the ranking system. Since it's incomplete, players are going to worry what their rank is going to look like when it IS finally complete. It would be better off to have nothing than the ranks that are showing up in the client right now. I feel like the system itself is unnecessary as it is now.


That's the plan, going forward. Chill and watch on.

You seem to have your own ideas that everyone is misinformed and never pays full attention to your posts and everything going on regarding the ranking system. We have enough of an attention span to read news posts regarding your game and make compelling arguements about what we want done with it. It feels like you're underestimating the intelligence of the community as a whole, rushing to conclusions and locking threads without giving anything proper consideration or trying to hold a civil discussion or arguement. I know a lot of people like to instigate drama and it's hard to achieve stuff like that over a forum post (and I'm even a little guilty of that here; I'm posting after you locked a thread) but I'd like to see you acknowledge some of the community's opinions on what should be done with the ranking system.


The disabling of pp was to avoid it getting any further incorrect than it is. I stated this in the opening line of my post. What followed was people blindly complaining about v2 (which was visible for a short period, before calculations were even run). All I can take from this is that no one read the post.

(I really don't want to be the person who has to post this and call you stubborn regarding these issues. While it may be exclusively my opinion, I would deign to say that some of the community agrees. Apologies for expressing myself. And apologies for any drama this may or may not cause.)


I am stubborn, because I believe in the direction I am taking the game. And after almost eight years, if you don't have a bit of faith then you should probably reconsider what the hell you are doing here?
Please sign in to reply.