You should read what I wrote. Screw your bias among me, since it's spoiling your view
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osu! World Cup 2013 - Discussion Thread
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Topic Starter
What bias
find one person who thinks the current tourney organization is fine and that the teams are getting fair treatment
find one person who thinks the current tourney organization is fine and that the teams are getting fair treatment
Ilye_old
Is captain just the empty title? Captains should be responsible enough to coummunicate with their own teammates and states like "other players could have problems with playing after postponing" shouldnt be considered. If captain agreed without considering his teammates' availability it is his own fault. Questioning every possibilty (which belongs to captain's duties) will lead to thoughts like "maybe he is too shy and acutally he dont want to postpone"
@edit
also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
@edit
also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
More moe posts in this thread pls!
^ agree[-Aoi-] wrote:
also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
I've had experience with bad communitcations once when planning for a big test for other people so I understand the possibility of the other teams having misunderstandings. I'd say the best way would be to postpone it by at least a week (not this saturday nor this sunday) so that the captains are given adequate time to inform everyone. From then on it will be the captains responsibility to ensure that everyone has the correct dates and time.
That's all..
From what I understand, fartownik actually told you beforehand that they were unable to play on Saturday, and in the end, they were scheduled on Saturday anyway without prior notice. You're talking about fairness, but the scheduling already made this unfair (not that it was put on Saturday, but that they weren't aware until it was "too late to postpone"). And lets face it, captains are very capable of managing their team. If they weren't, your schedule wouldn't work because the captains wouldn't contact their roster, and half the team wouldn't show up. You're basically insulting every captain in this tournament right now. Just look at farto, and tell me if he's doing a good job as a captain or not atm.
I seriously doubt that Taiwan would agree to postponing the match, if they weren't sure if they could get their main rooster.
And Loctav, you know. Instead of posting tons of excuses here and wasting time, why don't you actually speak to both captains to resolve the issue? Instead of outright refusing it and being stubborn, talk with the captains and come to an agreement.
I seriously doubt that Taiwan would agree to postponing the match, if they weren't sure if they could get their main rooster.
And Loctav, you know. Instead of posting tons of excuses here and wasting time, why don't you actually speak to both captains to resolve the issue? Instead of outright refusing it and being stubborn, talk with the captains and come to an agreement.
Topic Starter
fartownik's initial statement was, that they can not play on this entire weekend (including Sunday).
Every statement about "Let's play Sunday" Was after schedule release.
Also why is everyone implying that I am not trying to talk to everyone from Taiwan first? Why are you assuming so much? It's not like I can't post here and talk to people meanwhile . I already said that I will see what I can do, but for now you should consider the request as rejected.
Every statement about "Let's play Sunday" Was after schedule release.
Also why is everyone implying that I am not trying to talk to everyone from Taiwan first? Why are you assuming so much? It's not like I can't post here and talk to people meanwhile . I already said that I will see what I can do, but for now you should consider the request as rejected.
will you be my friend??? >w<-Kamui- wrote:
More moe posts in this thread pls!
We're assuming it (or well, I am) because you're arguing to Aqo about how talking to the teams in a chat would be futile, saying the problem lies in the fact that there may be empty promises if you ask team captains, etc. etc. These are "what if" situations, so of course I'm going to assume you haven't actually spoken to them.
Well, if you're actually trying to resolve the issue, then that's fine.
Do remember the purpose of OWC though: it's to find the best country in the world at playing osu!
Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
Well, if you're actually trying to resolve the issue, then that's fine.
Do remember the purpose of OWC though: it's to find the best country in the world at playing osu!
Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
It's not like it's a real life tournament when everyone gathers in a hall or something to do stuff for a weekend
Make an exception. Or the whole thing about OWC will be ruined
Infact the idea of organizators choosing times for teams to play is just bad I'd say. Captains are pretty capable of doing that by themselves cause they most likely know when the team is available or not (unless something happens)
Some timelimit for postponing is needed yeah, and that would be enough.
Make an exception. Or the whole thing about OWC will be ruined
Infact the idea of organizators choosing times for teams to play is just bad I'd say. Captains are pretty capable of doing that by themselves cause they most likely know when the team is available or not (unless something happens)
Some timelimit for postponing is needed yeah, and that would be enough.
Topic Starter
The gap between "I plan to do it on Sunday" and actually putting it on Saturday was like... 2 hours? Also since when is a "plan" a promise? I didnt promise anything. It's not like I said "it will be on Sunday, guaranteed". I aimed for Sunday first, but this didnt work out, so I changed my mind and put it on Saturday.CXu wrote:
Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
This "fault" is not a fault, since you do not know the context properly. It's ridiculous to say that "they prepared everything for Sunday then" when the actual schedule release and the "not-so-promised-promise" were like 2 hours apart from each other.
-Kamui- for most moe player of OWC 2013
Topic Starter
To clarify, we discussed a bit, I also talked to Uan and CXu and some others and they actually agree with certain points about what I consider as fair and unfair:
I can understand that Poland wants to play with ideal setup. Postponing the match results in Poland being able to play ideally. But postponing also results in Taiwan not being able to play ideally anymore. (SnowWhite can't play on Sunday for example, Uan is very limited here, too, might leave during match or something). Postponing the match now would be not neutral anymore, since I would give an advantage to Poland over Taiwan.
You might say "but you preferred Taiwan in the scheduling from the very beginning". Actually, this only happened because fartownik was unable to give times. If fartownik would've stated "Sunday pls" from the very beginning, I might have arranged it. But Taiwan was instantly claiming Saturday and Poland was like "next week pls" (which is impossible to do).
So I made the schedule like it is now, telling that "Next week is not possible".
Always consider that Poland is ABLE TO PLAY on Saturday, just not with ideal setup. (from what fartownik told me all the time)
I can understand that Poland wants to play with ideal setup. Postponing the match results in Poland being able to play ideally. But postponing also results in Taiwan not being able to play ideally anymore. (SnowWhite can't play on Sunday for example, Uan is very limited here, too, might leave during match or something). Postponing the match now would be not neutral anymore, since I would give an advantage to Poland over Taiwan.
You might say "but you preferred Taiwan in the scheduling from the very beginning". Actually, this only happened because fartownik was unable to give times. If fartownik would've stated "Sunday pls" from the very beginning, I might have arranged it. But Taiwan was instantly claiming Saturday and Poland was like "next week pls" (which is impossible to do).
So I made the schedule like it is now, telling that "Next week is not possible".
Always consider that Poland is ABLE TO PLAY on Saturday, just not with ideal setup. (from what fartownik told me all the time)
why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway
Topic Starter
Because I make it happen.xsrsbsns wrote:
why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway
No matches are being postponed.
NO OTHER COMPETITION ON EARTH decides final times around players. We are no exception. It was *my* decision to disallow postponing/user scheduling this tournament. I am sponsoring the tournament. So no postponing.
Be there, or don't, and disappoint your fans, audience, and tournament staff.
NO OTHER COMPETITION ON EARTH decides final times around players. We are no exception. It was *my* decision to disallow postponing/user scheduling this tournament. I am sponsoring the tournament. So no postponing.
Be there, or don't, and disappoint your fans, audience, and tournament staff.
Thread reopened! Good luck to all teams for the matches today 
.
.Good luck.
And please, let's try to avoid anything that could start a drama again.
And please, let's try to avoid anything that could start a drama again.
When will the stats sheet be updated?
Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results
Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?
Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?
Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
Alright, fair enough thanks.Marcin wrote:
Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results
Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?
Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
As long as maps are already picked and checked if they aren't retarded, should be okay.
Some drama might occur if any of the teams gets ddosed.
Some drama might occur if any of the teams gets ddosed.
Topic Starter
I am still gathering additional opinions on the current "final mappool", trying to optimize it. Certain people are making themselves rare and hide in the shadows, so I can not ask them (even tho they were responsible for doing so).
Keep in mind that the mappool will be released tomorrow. (To keep the time span the same)
Keep in mind that the mappool will be released tomorrow. (To keep the time span the same)
Don't forget to be moe!
T-The moe is too strong...please go on without me-Kamui- wrote:
Don't forget to be moe!
I'm crying.
2211178
Pls marry me -Kamui-
Actually the 3rd match of Italy for Group Stage against United States is missing, just noticed.Marcin wrote:
Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results
Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?
Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
God save the queen, Nice to watch, shame about Jesus' connection problems and props to charley more or less being dropped in it and still doing nice.
gg Korea
gg Korea
No =w=-MikexD- wrote:
Pls marry me -Kamui-
also, gg Korea.
I blame Andrea for not making quit all korean players. Such bad man this Andrea.
jk ilu Andrea
God save the queen.
We need better net in the UK, we should be as strong as google.
We need better net in the UK, we should be as strong as google.
DDOS proof pls.jesus1412 wrote:
We need better net in the UK, we should be as strong as google.
GG either way.
interesting score that WWW got on just awake when he is #1 on it
1: he isnt at home
2: mp is always harder
3: there are 9k people watching him
4: he spent multiple tries trying to get his #1
stop thinking things
2: mp is always harder
3: there are 9k people watching him
4: he spent multiple tries trying to get his #1
stop thinking things
WolferZ wrote:
interesting score that WWW got on just awake when he is #1 on it
silmarilen wrote:
Definitely honorable.
Anyway @WolferZ: Your post is pretty stupid in fact of the things silmarilen has wrote. ninja!
Amazing to see that osu! is watched that much.
Also, great matches, it was really fun to watch.
Also, great matches, it was really fun to watch.
Taiwan too strong D:
taiwan power is scared!
3 stupid misses on 3 stupidly easy maps (one caused by lag) and it would be 3:3 and entertaining to watch. Well, Taiwan op
sorry guys
sorry guys
This Taiwan team…
Can Korea even stop them?
Can Korea even stop them?
The final is gonna be really nice to see.
Also.. 9k+ viewers. Nice osu!
Also.. 9k+ viewers. Nice osu!
You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.
GG anyway.
GG anyway.
It wasn't Korea. Blame my sub Google net.bubby963 wrote:
You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.
GG anyway.
Can we stop with the DDoS bullshit? It seems like a poor excuse for having played horribly bad. Also same for Germany.bubby963 wrote:
You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.
GG anyway.
I BEG YOU, organizers, make a loser bracket next year. Japan is totally top 3.......
Yes, losers bracket pls
so ostriches have better chances next time
so ostriches have better chances next time
lol xD Andrea no moe :p-Kamui- wrote:
I blame Andrea for not making quit all korean players. Such bad man this Andrea.
the 1st place from each group can get into winner bracket, meanwhile the 2nd place will start at the lower bracket. this would be really fun, and also the timespan will be exactly the same as single elimination systemAmaiHachimitsu wrote:
I BEG YOU, organizers, make a loser bracket next year. Japan is totally top 3.......
That's not a loser bracket.
Well it wasn't an excuse for playing bad this time. But still, throwing DDOS accusations around for disconnects? Please, can we not stoop to this level of petty bullshit, thanks.Blue Dragon wrote:
Can we stop with the DDoS bullshit? It seems like a poor excuse for having played horribly bad. Also same for Germany.bubby963 wrote:
You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.
GG anyway.
Topic Starter
Schedule is out. Mappool comes, soon. Finalizing it right now. I am hurrying already 
Consult wiki page for details.
Consult wiki page for details.
Topic Starter
.doublepostyey
Mappool is out. Consult the wiki for more information.
Big thanks to JappyBabes, kriers, Frostmourne, Andrea and Leader for helping out on this.
Mappool is out. Consult the wiki for more information.
Big thanks to JappyBabes, kriers, Frostmourne, Andrea and Leader for helping out on this.
I think you overestimate our 1-play multiplayer FCing skills quite a lot.
edit: the freemod bracket is useless
edit: the freemod bracket is useless
lol what, who added Reunion on HR bracket? that's super easy even for Group stage pool ._.
lol, never expected one of my maps on OWC, mostly on the HR bracket
Topic Starter
Fixed a typo on the mappool. Caramel Heaven's diff was supposed to be [Heaven], lol.
I like the mappool.
see, taking a bit of time and consulting players and mappers to prepare a pool doesn't hurt
see, taking a bit of time and consulting players and mappers to prepare a pool doesn't hurt
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41974 you know why this map has so few HDHR FCs? Surely not because it's hard, it's only because it's fucking boring to learn the entire map from the scratch, and you make us do the most boring thing. I don't know if that was the purpose of the HD bracket in the first place.
FL bracket next year.
The mappool is mostly for 200+ streamsmashing, yes.
The mappool is mostly for 200+ streamsmashing, yes.
lol'd at Reunion with HR, rest is fine i guess, still easy for what it was supposed to be on finals, but reunion is a joke for this stage.
Inappropriate choices-
Guitar style(hd) : tooooo long and boring for a competition, especially in Finals
Reunion(hr) : shoule be at group stage or R16
Controversial choices-
Anisakis(hr) : with some annoying fast sliders under Hard Rock
Fermion(dt) : I'd like to see how the players handle such complex rhythm in MP
Guitar style(hd) : tooooo long and boring for a competition, especially in Finals
Reunion(hr) : shoule be at group stage or R16
Controversial choices-
Anisakis(hr) : with some annoying fast sliders under Hard Rock
Fermion(dt) : I'd like to see how the players handle such complex rhythm in MP
They're not going to pick heaven's race, don't worry guys
Heaven's Race is a terrible pick, AR 8 + HD on a map that requires A LOT of memorization.
Ningen Shikkaku is also boring to play, very long map with just a few "hard" parts.
I would say more but since I should have helped and didn't (sorry I couldn't) even then I posted comments about some maps and they kind of got ignored. The diff spread is also terrible, some maps are EXTREMELY easy while some others are actually hard to FC.
Hope I can be available around this time next year lol.
Ningen Shikkaku is also boring to play, very long map with just a few "hard" parts.
I would say more but since I should have helped and didn't (sorry I couldn't) even then I posted comments about some maps and they kind of got ignored. The diff spread is also terrible, some maps are EXTREMELY easy while some others are actually hard to FC.
Hope I can be available around this time next year lol.
The purpose of the HD bracket is to test your HD reading abilities, same as any other mod.fartownik wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41974 you know why this map has so few HDHR FCs? Surely not because it's hard, it's only because it's fucking boring to learn the entire map from the scratch, and you make us do the most boring thing. I don't know if that was the purpose of the HD bracket in the first place.
Hidden does not require any memorization, if you can't read AR8 hidden then you shouldn't be in the finals.
Actually, HD does require some memorization if there are a lot of stack notes.darkmiz wrote:
The purpose of the HD bracket is to test your HD reading abilities, same as any other mod.fartownik wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41974 you know why this map has so few HDHR FCs? Surely not because it's hard, it's only because it's fucking boring to learn the entire map from the scratch, and you make us do the most boring thing. I don't know if that was the purpose of the HD bracket in the first place.
Hidden does not require any memorization, if you can't read AR8 hidden then you shouldn't be in the finals.
The purpose of the HD bracket is to test your HD reading abilities, same as any other mod.0 out of thousands have FC'd this map first try with Hidden.
Hidden does not require any memorization, if you can't read AR8 hidden then you shouldn't be in the finals.
So many AR8 Noobs out there right
You should know that even when we perform quite ok first play with Hidden, it's not that we can always read well, we sometimes just predict that "the hidden thing under the slider end is a quad, not triple". I don't know what kind of skin you're using as to state that Hidden doesn't require memorization.
Even if we assume that every circle can be theoretically read, you should know that.... this is a 1-play tournament and even if we don't like it, we HAVE to memorize it as to play it comfortably during match. We have a whole week, it's no problem to learn how to play this map (this is why HD bracket is kind of useless) IF YOU HAVE TIME, which some people don't.
When you posted comments, Loctav asked what was wrong in reference to them and got no response, you also have a very odd view on what it is an adequate difficulty for a map pool, things like Magic Girl or Ha-tenya on DT are simply unacceptable in the environment, Bamboo Dance shouldn't have been in the semis, a lot of people were honestly confused as to why something so difficult even for the top players to FC while playing solo was in the 2nd last map pool. A lot of the maps picked were in hopes to produce a map pool which had variety in what skills were required, DT has an AR9, something to test speed, single-tap/aim, and a map which is quite tricky to perform well on. This is the same mindset as was used to pick reunion, every single time I've watched the OWC stream, a team will have a few of their players break their combo and the other team will keep FCing and you're left sitting there for a minute of two already knowing the result (likely the participants too if there's a break to see team scores). Sure, reunion could have been a pick for group stages where not all teams would be able to consistently FC it, making it another one of these matches where you just wait for the song to end, but when you place it into a final map pool where all 8 players should be able to FC it without an issue as it's not demanding on aim or speed, you'd be unable to tell who should win half way through the map and wait for the next choice. Having every HR map selected, by aim, for the pools throughout every round does not seem like the best thing to do considering accuracy is one of the largest components of HR. And yeah picking HD is kind of iffy, because it doesn't actually modify the map, so you have to pick based on reading/memorization, no reason to negate one of the two reasons that HD increases the difficulty of a map without modifying it. End on a slightly more personal note, you have to keep in mind that your view on the difficulty of a map is extremely subjective, the only maps that are 'EXTREMELY easy' to FC are reunion and Caramel Heaven, I'd say. Caramel Heaven is probably the easiest pick in the entire pool, making it an acc war, yet it's in the free mod bracket and has a max combo of 1400-1500x, there's actually an incentive there to use mods as the maps don't become impossibly hard for the OWC environment and the bonus points from a mod at that combo is quite significant, unlike the group stage map pool where the risk far outweighed the reward for rather low combo maps. You've also barely been active throughout the entirety of this year Wishy, and you were AFK for map selection since group stages. Perhaps you should change that.Wishy wrote:
Heaven's Race is a terrible pick, AR 8 + HD on a map that requires A LOT of memorization.
Ningen Shikkaku is also boring to play, very long map with just a few "hard" parts.
I would say more but since I should have helped and didn't (sorry I couldn't) even then I posted comments about some maps and they kind of got ignored. The diff spread is also terrible, some maps are EXTREMELY easy while some others are actually hard to FC.
Hope I can be available around this time next year lol.
walloftext
I think both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya would be good picks. You guys chose maps that need only one specific skill and I don't support such idea. There should be some all-in-ones in every bracket. DT for me is: Colors - jump and that's all, Parousia and Fermion - clicking speed only (Fermion has ridiculously high HP drain, just wait for those fails), Splendid Encount - Reading AR 10,3 only. Only Freemods look more or less balanced.
Also I dislike what you said about Reunion. You seem to have forgotten that we're playing under pressure. Easy-to-fc maps make it even worse because we ARE TO FC. I can totally foresee that there WILL be breaks if any of the teams chooses Reunion. And then all your accuracy talk will become obsolete. I think Metro pointed out earlier that solo=/=mp accuracy and I totally agree with that. This decision is more for spectators rather than for players.
I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
The same with this 5-minutes-long Hidden pick.
Also I dislike what you said about Reunion. You seem to have forgotten that we're playing under pressure. Easy-to-fc maps make it even worse because we ARE TO FC. I can totally foresee that there WILL be breaks if any of the teams chooses Reunion. And then all your accuracy talk will become obsolete. I think Metro pointed out earlier that solo=/=mp accuracy and I totally agree with that. This decision is more for spectators rather than for players.
I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
The same with this 5-minutes-long Hidden pick.
You think that Magic Girl and Ha-tenya would be more than appropriate for a finals map pool, then in the next paragraph say you wouldn't even be able to FC a map which has quite trivial aim requirements at a BPM<200. What do you find so appealing about a results screen which in all likelihood will end up having 8 As with less than half of an FC? In the OWC 1 play count environment, it seems like the winner of each map would just be determined by RNG. I don't see a good reason to put maps in, which as I said in the previous post the players with the best aim in the game could require hours to FC it or just give up in the end, in such a volatile situation. I'm not responsible for Mephisto in free mod, Nuclear Fusion would be too much of a risk also, spacing with HR is just absolutely mental and IIRC it becomes quite tricky with HD too. I already talked about Heaven's Race in the previous post, unless you are talking in specific about how long the map is, in which case I have to ask why that would be relevant.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
I think both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya would be good picks. You guys chose maps that need only one specific skill and I don't support such idea. There should be some all-in-ones in every bracket. DT for me is: Colors - jump and that's all, Parousia and Fermion - clicking speed only (Fermion has ridiculously high HP drain, just wait for those fails), Splendid Encount - Reading AR 10,3 only. Only Freemods look more or less balanced.
Also I dislike what you said about Reunion. You seem to have forgotten that we're playing under pressure. Easy-to-fc maps make it even worse because we ARE TO FC. I can totally foresee that there WILL be breaks if any of the teams chooses Reunion. And then all your accuracy talk will become obsolete. I think Metro pointed out earlier that solo=/=mp accuracy and I totally agree with that. This decision is more for spectators rather than for players.
I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
The same with this 5-minutes-long Hidden pick.
JappyBabes wrote:
And yeah picking HD is kind of iffy, because it doesn't actually modify the map, so you have to pick based on reading/memorization, no reason to negate one of the two reasons that HD increases the difficulty of a map without modifying it.
Ostrichstria is not happy with this. You just lost our ostrich blessing.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
But on a more serious note, that hidden map gives people the chance to beat a better team if they practice it a lot. Then again you can start the discussion about "memorization is not a skill".
The problem I see with Heaven's Race is that it's a long and slow map. It wouldn't be very interesting to watch.JappyBabes wrote:
I already talked about Heaven's Race in the previous post, unless you are talking in specific about how long the map is, in which case I have to ask why that would be relevant.
Topic Starter
Unfortunately I was unable to change the free mod rule. The new freemod rule will apply on TWC then.
Like every year, we learn from flaws and mistakes and improve on it.
Some picks might appear odd for you, because it does appear "inconsistent" for you, but I share the idea that a varied set of skills should be tested in the finals. Reunion might be quite easy, but since everyone can probably play it easily, it results in close acc/score matches. Unfortunately the osu! Standard scoring rewards high combo too much. But well.
Maybe we can think of a cool metric in future (win by acc, Wishy suggested this once? Maybe we can create an acc-win bracket)
I'll probably do a survey with all participants and find out, what went wrong and what was cool. Luckily I can ask the entire population, ehee.
Like every year, we learn from flaws and mistakes and improve on it.
Some picks might appear odd for you, because it does appear "inconsistent" for you, but I share the idea that a varied set of skills should be tested in the finals. Reunion might be quite easy, but since everyone can probably play it easily, it results in close acc/score matches. Unfortunately the osu! Standard scoring rewards high combo too much. But well.
Maybe we can think of a cool metric in future (win by acc, Wishy suggested this once? Maybe we can create an acc-win bracket)
I'll probably do a survey with all participants and find out, what went wrong and what was cool. Luckily I can ask the entire population, ehee.
One with numbers on the notes, like 95% of players?AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
we sometimes just predict that "the hidden thing under the slider end is a quad, not triple". I don't know what kind of skin you're using as to state that Hidden doesn't require memorization.
Cool idea. I mean, consistiency is a big thing in a game like osu, so you shouldn't ditch it completely, but one bracket would be just fine.Loctav wrote:
Maybe we can create an acc-win bracket
Inb4 TAG bracket
Incorporate FL bracket, clearly all players know how to FL.
Speaking of what went wrong, I might as well spit out an issue for Australia's team and probably some others(?)
Time zone differences, like when we had to vs Brazil, we had a really awkward timezone difference (12 hour diff). This didn't allow both teams maximum potential as they were playing really late at night and we were playing early that half of us were still asleep. To avoid this issue, I say restrict each bracket so that there aren't time zone difference 10 hours+ difference.
Speaking of what went wrong, I might as well spit out an issue for Australia's team and probably some others(?)
Time zone differences, like when we had to vs Brazil, we had a really awkward timezone difference (12 hour diff). This didn't allow both teams maximum potential as they were playing really late at night and we were playing early that half of us were still asleep. To avoid this issue, I say restrict each bracket so that there aren't time zone difference 10 hours+ difference.
Okayokayokay guys, remember this: All pros play by reading the numbers on circles, because that's exactly how the game works \:D/Kuruku-san wrote:
One with numbers on the notes, like 95% of players?AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
we sometimes just predict that "the hidden thing under the slider end is a quad, not triple". I don't know what kind of skin you're using as to state that Hidden doesn't require memorization.
Topic Starter
Until they meet up in the finals and we have the same issue again? Totally makes sense not.Melt3dCheeze wrote:
To avoid this issue, I say restrict each bracket so that there aren't time zone difference 10 hours+ difference.
This is an unavoidable issue we can not solve. Life is cruel. Timezones suck.
You don't play on EZ very much, do you? Ask SapphireGhost and MillhioreF how excellently number-reading works.Zarerion wrote:
Okayokayokay guys, remember this: All pros play by reading the numbers on circles, because that's exactly how the game works \:D/
Reunion is just not a good pick for finals, period .. you didn't apply the Accuracy thing in the ENTIRE owc, why apply it on finals? Hell, past owc had accuracy maps (which i liked btw) on groups/ round of 16, and the finals had harder maps than reunion, it's just too easy, i would've expected maps as hard as Ha Tenya and Magic Girl in finals, and regarding on the DT bracket and something similar in HR, same thing happened last round with Cendrillon, insanely easy maps.
Accuracy should be something applicable on groupstage and maybe round of 16 with maps like owc2, but after that you need to step it up with difficulty, every map is easier than it should've been for FINALS, you have to realize that the tournament started with the idea of having maps harder than the last owc, it doesn't matter that the original people that chose maps were unable to keep doing it, you guys had to stick to the difficulty going up, having really challenging maps on final is what people like to see and what players have to go thorugh to be legit champions, it's just like that, final has to be a big deal.
Accuracy should be something applicable on groupstage and maybe round of 16 with maps like owc2, but after that you need to step it up with difficulty, every map is easier than it should've been for FINALS, you have to realize that the tournament started with the idea of having maps harder than the last owc, it doesn't matter that the original people that chose maps were unable to keep doing it, you guys had to stick to the difficulty going up, having really challenging maps on final is what people like to see and what players have to go thorugh to be legit champions, it's just like that, final has to be a big deal.
You think that Magic Girl and Ha-tenya would be more than appropriate for a finals map pool, then in the next paragraph say you wouldn't even be able to FC a map which has quite trivial aim requirements at a BPM<200. What do you find so appealing about a results screen which in all likelihood will end up having 8 As with less than half of an FC?There is a difference when inside your head you think "I must do the best combo possible" and "If I miss once, we'll probably lose".
Also both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya have consistent difficulty and allow achieving quite good combos even under pressure. Only those who actually can play the difficulty like that well can FC half of the map. And those people are just "better" in maps like that. If, for example, there happens a player who does 1x break on the Reunion, he is responsible for the whole team's loss despite not being bad at this map. How can this determine who is better at this game?
I'd rather reward the team in which one or two people did extremely well FCing a map and carrying the rest than the team which somehow managed not to miss on an easier map.
Even if we played this tournament with only [Easy] maps, there will be a case when someone breaks, screws the accuracy up. And the team is then deemed as "weaker".
I don't get what's wrong with only As in the result screen. It only shows how high the level of competition is. And those who manage to FC a map are really, really good.
One with numbers on the notes, like 95% of players?Sorry but I can assume you've never played a map with more complex rhythm patterns which are hidden totally while HD is put on. Play this Tsukasa map and send me your FC screen.
Give me a left hand that isn't shit and I'll do it.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
Sorry but I can assume you've never played a map with more complex rhythm patterns which are hidden totally while HD is put on. Play this Tsukasa map and send me your FC screen.
Go relax mode. Do it.Kuruku-san wrote:
Give me a left hand that isn't shit and I'll do it.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
Sorry but I can assume you've never played a map with more complex rhythm patterns which are hidden totally while HD is put on. Play this Tsukasa map and send me your FC screen.
Yep...no one really ends up wanting to pick this kind of map because it ideally SHOULD be an accuracy contest, but no one wants to be that one guy who does something dumb and singlehandedly loses the pick for his team. Unfortunately I don't think accuracy maps are really cut out for a 4v4 tournament, and I say this as a player who specializes in accuracy.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
There is a difference when inside your head you think "I must do the best combo possible" and "If I miss once, we'll probably lose".
*I* didn't apply the accuracy thing throughout the entire OWC because I haven't been here the entire time. IIRC, most of it has been Darksonic/Wishy/Chewin and maybe some others to help here and there, and I consider it a mistake that accuracy was never truly tested throughout the map pools. If you're going to stick with the mindset of every map selected for the finals must be difficult to aim or have a few burst streams at high BPM, then I cannot help you. I'm not going to disregard accuracy in it's entirety as one of two components that make HR difficult (the other being smaller CS). Some selections from past pools overstepped their bounds in terms of difficulty, and just because you want the difficulty to grow exponentially, I'm not going to agree with having to make me overstep my bounds due to someone else's poor choice. In the general scope of OWCs though, this pool is overall more difficult than the final map pool of last year. Also, going through a map like Magic Girl+DT isn't as hard as it was for the players involved as it was, say, last year. Passing it does not make you a champion.Salvage wrote:
Reunion is just not a good pick for finals, period .. you didn't apply the Accuracy thing in the ENTIRE owc, why apply it on finals? Hell, past owc had accuracy maps (which i liked btw) on groups/ round of 16, and the finals had harder maps than reunion, it's just too easy, i would've expected maps as hard as Ha Tenya and Magic Girl in finals, and regarding on the DT bracket and something similar in HR, same thing happened last round with Cendrillon, insanely easy maps.
Accuracy should be something applicable on groupstage and maybe round of 16 with maps like owc2, but after that you need to step it up with difficulty, every map is easier than it should've been for FINALS, you have to realize that the tournament started with the idea of having maps harder than the last owc, it doesn't matter that the original people that chose maps were unable to keep doing it, you guys had to stick to the difficulty going up, having really challenging maps on final is what people like to see and what players have to go thorugh to be legit champions, it's just like that, final has to be a big deal.
AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
You think that Magic Girl and Ha-tenya would be more than appropriate for a finals map pool, then in the next paragraph say you wouldn't even be able to FC a map which has quite trivial aim requirements at a BPM<200. What do you find so appealing about a results screen which in all likelihood will end up having 8 As with less than half of an FC?There is a difference when inside your head you think "I must do the best combo possible" and "If I miss once, we'll probably lose".
Also both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya have consistent difficulty and allow achieving quite good combos even under pressure. Only those who actually can play the difficulty like that well can FC half of the map. And those people are just "better" in maps like that. If, for example, there happens a player who does 1x break on the Reunion, he is responsible for the whole team's loss despite not being bad at this map. How can this determine who is better at this game?
I'd rather reward the team in which one or two people did extremely well FCing a map and carrying the rest than the team which somehow managed not to miss on an easier map.
Even if we played this tournament with only [Easy] maps, there will be a case when someone breaks, screws the accuracy up. And the team is then deemed as "weaker".
I don't get what's wrong with only As in the result screen. It only shows how high the level of competition is. And those who manage to FC a map are really, really good.
We've already seen Bamboo Dance picked during UK vs KR and there was no FC, so please don't present me with some bullshit hypothetical where 'one or two people do extremely well FCing a map' when considering Magic Girl, Ha-tenya and whatever unreasonable maps Wishy wanted to add to the DT pool. Whilst there is a difference between those mindsets, you're still playing under pressure and will under perform compared to your normal play, I even mentioned in my post that in these situations where there will be players missing constantly throughout the entirety of the map that a winner could likely be determined by luck. There are 10+ maps in the pool which one or two players can carry their entire team through if they manage to FC it, however if you lower the difficulty, it not only increases the number of FCs but determines the winner by has better accuracy which has good synergy in the HR pool, considering that it's the only pick like this. I'm not going to agree that because you have nerves or something else and will miss because of that, you should disregard any sense of rhythm and rely on aim and mashing two keys, and that should not influence choice in maps. It seems entirely unreasonable that you want only the stupidly difficult maps for OWC and no maps that are determined by accuracy just because you think you'll miss on it, so you may as well just pick the hardest things in the game that most of the participants would be incapable of playing, right? No, and an [Easy] does not test accuracy so there isn't a valid reason to mention it.
This is subjective, but both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya are far easier than Fermione.
Accuracy CAN NOT be tested in the OWC, there is such an insanely low chance that every player will FC that it can't be measured as the main metric. It means nothing at all, I could get and 82% FC and have a higher score than everyone else combined on some maps. It can't be measured and it shouldn't be attempted. There's a reason no one picks hd too and no one picks mods for freemod unless they think it will help them (looking at HR on low AR maps), accuracy doesn't matter and neither does the extra score from adding mods. Maps should be hard enough at this point for players to be EXPECTED to break and honestly, in my opinion, they should be from the start of the OWC relative to the lowest teams remaining.
As a captain I avoid maps that are extremely easy to fc because I'm 200% sure someone will break and probably end up feeling like they caused a loss (which is a HORRIBLE feeling). I also avoid HD completely and it seems like most top teams do because HD is very luck based in MP, the maps are so easy that anyone can FC but it's still easily possible for even top players to break. Honestly I think the freemod bracket entirely is a gimmicky area, it's only use is for messing around in the group stages and showing off otherwise it's to make the maps easier to FC for the player (which is not the intention of the bracket). HD maps aren't that bad but they're rarely used because it's such an unpredictable option compared to a map where you have a good estimate of how the other team (and your own) will perform.
I think AR10.3 maps should be picked but probably easier ones like paintings for instance, certainly not until the later stages of the tournament though.
These things should probably be what map pickers are looking for:
Balanced difficulty maps.
Heavy jump maps.
Fast stream maps.
Long stream maps.
Complex pattern maps.
AR8 maps or strange AR9 maps.
Relatively easy AR10.3 map (quarter finals+).
I'd say incorporating at least one of each of those kind of maps should be the aim of the map pickers, give or take a few depending on the round (i.e no insanely fast streams in group stages).
Also it could be worth looking into the use of some high quality unranked maps, there are a few that would be perfect for a tournament setting and provide things that ranked maps simply can't provide (unranked maps are a heavy part of the game at this point to top players and even some of the more unorthodox skills commonly practiced that aren't officially supported by the BAT should be tested).
As a captain I avoid maps that are extremely easy to fc because I'm 200% sure someone will break and probably end up feeling like they caused a loss (which is a HORRIBLE feeling). I also avoid HD completely and it seems like most top teams do because HD is very luck based in MP, the maps are so easy that anyone can FC but it's still easily possible for even top players to break. Honestly I think the freemod bracket entirely is a gimmicky area, it's only use is for messing around in the group stages and showing off otherwise it's to make the maps easier to FC for the player (which is not the intention of the bracket). HD maps aren't that bad but they're rarely used because it's such an unpredictable option compared to a map where you have a good estimate of how the other team (and your own) will perform.
I think AR10.3 maps should be picked but probably easier ones like paintings for instance, certainly not until the later stages of the tournament though.
These things should probably be what map pickers are looking for:
Balanced difficulty maps.
Heavy jump maps.
Fast stream maps.
Long stream maps.
Complex pattern maps.
AR8 maps or strange AR9 maps.
Relatively easy AR10.3 map (quarter finals+).
I'd say incorporating at least one of each of those kind of maps should be the aim of the map pickers, give or take a few depending on the round (i.e no insanely fast streams in group stages).
Also it could be worth looking into the use of some high quality unranked maps, there are a few that would be perfect for a tournament setting and provide things that ranked maps simply can't provide (unranked maps are a heavy part of the game at this point to top players and even some of the more unorthodox skills commonly practiced that aren't officially supported by the BAT should be tested).