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osu! World Cup 2013 - Discussion Thread

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Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
No, it's definitely your inability to adapt and fear of stuff that happened in the past like long postponing.

What you should do is talk to both Taiwan and Poland team members and decide on a later time that will be convenient for both, doing it properly while both teams talk to each other. Delay the whole thing as much as needed and if you just let people talk to each other I'm sure it won't take longer than a week. The whole thing wouldn't have happened from the beginning if you just let people talk to each other more instead of making communications difficult. The teams don't need a third man to organize times for them, they can do it themselves. People who were playing for the entire year and waited for this wouldn't mind waiting a little longer to make sure everybody gets to play on their best shape, and I'm sure everybody else would like to see that too.

Stop using slogans like 'this can cause issues'. The biggest possible issue that can happen in a tournament, an event made purely for the players, is players getting screwed over. Your utmost highest priority should be to avoid this happening.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Considering that there are also other world cups in preparation, a postponing by a week is not possible. The tournament schedule was released on registration phase already. And we are not planning to change it.

Stuff is easier said than done. It's easy in your position to say "just do it, what's wrong with it", but I am not naive.
Also not asking the players is a quite dumb accusation. Taking a look on many many tournaments (UScup, OWC#2, even OWC#3) shows the issue in captains handling schedules.

Also postponing by a week is an unfair procedure considering the mappool practice time. Considering that all mappools gave you one week to be practiced, postponing all matches by 1 week give this pool 2 weeks, which is rather screwing the equality of the stages.

My utmost highest priority are fair and standardized matches. And I don't consider it as fair (in the great whole) to allow a single team better condition than others. The players are the focus. But not the polish players alone. All players are. Even those being kicked out already.

And you guys are probably the first blaming me for a messed up match because of an unattendance of taiwanese players. The so so called 'slogan' is no empty phrase. I clearly filled it with content and defined the issue (inability to adapt to postponed times from player sides, unfair treatment among others, giving advantages to one team)
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
I'm looking at farto's post and it doesn't seem to me like communication was handled properly.

Don't make up unrelated reasons like map practice times. Players on this level don't need more than 15 minutes to get familiar with a map, anything from there is their own play level which they have built over all this time and it won't change drastically in a week.

And thinking about stuff like teams who were kicked out at this point is what I mean with bad adaptation. I wasn't following this owc and didn't see how things went from the start, I'm sure there are things that could have gone better differently, but you should focus on how to make the best out of what you have right now instead of repeating mistakes you did in the past just because "that's what we did earlier".

If you want matches to be fair, let the teams talk to each other and decide on a time that they feel is fair for them. This is what should've been done from the start.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Just because Rucker and fartownik agreed to something, it doesn't guarantee that this won't cause issues to the taiwanese team now - in case of a postponing.
You still didn't understand the core problem or where the unfairness lies - or more like, why the change is now not possible because of the nature of postponings.


Suggesting captain-arranged times only shows that you didn't see what was going on on every tournament that was done like this.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
How about you ask the entire teams what they think about it instead of only team captains?
I'm not saying it should necessarily be on either Saturday or Sunday, I'm saying you have a serious communication problem right now and instead of working on resolving it you're making it worse.

Stop sticking your head in the mud of past events and -go and talk to people right now-. Go online and try to catch as many players from each team, ask them what they think, put them in a chat together and let them talk, ask them how and when to contact people who were offline or unreachable at the time, over the course of 2 days (especially now that it's the weekend) get to contact everybody and resolve this issue by letting everybody talk and agree on things together, instead of acting like talking is pointless and giving people the message that they should just deal with robotics decisions that are obsolete of logic.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Considering the availability of every team member, this doesn't guarantee a good outcome. Especially when it comes to players with poor English skills or those who never check their pm folder.
(Asians aren't very famous for their brilliant English)

Experiences aren't empty value. There are clear reasons why stuff is done the way it is.
Repeating the same error over and over again isn't very helpful.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
Stop making things up, the Taiwan team speaks English well enough to understand you and reply, and is definitely available for chatting. The statuses for players show they were all active in recent hours (I messaged Rucker 2 days ago completely randomly and he instantly answered. <3 ) Same thing for Poland team, it's absolutely not difficult to reach and talk to at least most of the team.

At this point it sounds like you're just being lazy and looking for ways to throw the blame on others instead of doing your job as a tourney organizer.
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
At this point you just want to blame me no matter what for something that can not be helped or where risks are too high.
I won't take risks of that size in this stage anymore.
The match will not be postponed due to previously explained reasons. If you disagree, feel free. But I actually prioritize the fairness of a whole tournament.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
What risks? holy shit you're just making things up to be lazy and not do the things that a tourney organizer is actually supposed to be doing. I've seen irc/imageboard tournaments being organized better than this

I feel bad for the players who waited an entire year for this
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
You should read what I wrote. Screw your bias among me, since it's spoiling your view
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
What bias

find one person who thinks the current tourney organization is fine and that the teams are getting fair treatment
Soarezi
Soarezi
i wonder if there will be any games played LOL
Ilye_old
Ilye_old
Is captain just the empty title? Captains should be responsible enough to coummunicate with their own teammates and states like "other players could have problems with playing after postponing" shouldnt be considered. If captain agreed without considering his teammates' availability it is his own fault. Questioning every possibilty (which belongs to captain's duties) will lead to thoughts like "maybe he is too shy and acutally he dont want to postpone"

@edit
also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke


More moe posts in this thread pls!
yurunneram
682 posts
Joined January 2012
yurunneram

[-Aoi-] wrote:

also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
^ agree

I've had experience with bad communitcations once when planning for a big test for other people so I understand the possibility of the other teams having misunderstandings. I'd say the best way would be to postpone it by at least a week (not this saturday nor this sunday) so that the captains are given adequate time to inform everyone. From then on it will be the captains responsibility to ensure that everyone has the correct dates and time.

That's all..
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
From what I understand, fartownik actually told you beforehand that they were unable to play on Saturday, and in the end, they were scheduled on Saturday anyway without prior notice. You're talking about fairness, but the scheduling already made this unfair (not that it was put on Saturday, but that they weren't aware until it was "too late to postpone"). And lets face it, captains are very capable of managing their team. If they weren't, your schedule wouldn't work because the captains wouldn't contact their roster, and half the team wouldn't show up. You're basically insulting every captain in this tournament right now. Just look at farto, and tell me if he's doing a good job as a captain or not atm.
I seriously doubt that Taiwan would agree to postponing the match, if they weren't sure if they could get their main rooster.

And Loctav, you know. Instead of posting tons of excuses here and wasting time, why don't you actually speak to both captains to resolve the issue? Instead of outright refusing it and being stubborn, talk with the captains and come to an agreement.
Soarezi
Soarezi

-Kamui- wrote:



More moe posts in this thread pls!

>w<
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
fartownik's initial statement was, that they can not play on this entire weekend (including Sunday).
Every statement about "Let's play Sunday" Was after schedule release.

Also why is everyone implying that I am not trying to talk to everyone from Taiwan first? Why are you assuming so much? It's not like I can't post here and talk to people meanwhile . I already said that I will see what I can do, but for now you should consider the request as rejected.
Synchrostar
867 posts
Joined July 2010
Synchrostar

-Kamui- wrote:



More moe posts in this thread pls!
will you be my friend??? >w<
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
We're assuming it (or well, I am) because you're arguing to Aqo about how talking to the teams in a chat would be futile, saying the problem lies in the fact that there may be empty promises if you ask team captains, etc. etc. These are "what if" situations, so of course I'm going to assume you haven't actually spoken to them.

Well, if you're actually trying to resolve the issue, then that's fine.
Do remember the purpose of OWC though: it's to find the best country in the world at playing osu!

Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
Kert
2,083 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
It's not like it's a real life tournament when everyone gathers in a hall or something to do stuff for a weekend
Make an exception. Or the whole thing about OWC will be ruined
Infact the idea of organizators choosing times for teams to play is just bad I'd say. Captains are pretty capable of doing that by themselves cause they most likely know when the team is available or not (unless something happens)
Some timelimit for postponing is needed yeah, and that would be enough.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav

CXu wrote:

Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
The gap between "I plan to do it on Sunday" and actually putting it on Saturday was like... 2 hours? Also since when is a "plan" a promise? I didnt promise anything. It's not like I said "it will be on Sunday, guaranteed". I aimed for Sunday first, but this didnt work out, so I changed my mind and put it on Saturday.
This "fault" is not a fault, since you do not know the context properly. It's ridiculous to say that "they prepared everything for Sunday then" when the actual schedule release and the "not-so-promised-promise" were like 2 hours apart from each other.
Mikelicious
337 posts
Joined September 2012
Mikelicious
-Kamui- for most moe player of OWC 2013
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
To clarify, we discussed a bit, I also talked to Uan and CXu and some others and they actually agree with certain points about what I consider as fair and unfair:

I can understand that Poland wants to play with ideal setup. Postponing the match results in Poland being able to play ideally. But postponing also results in Taiwan not being able to play ideally anymore. (SnowWhite can't play on Sunday for example, Uan is very limited here, too, might leave during match or something). Postponing the match now would be not neutral anymore, since I would give an advantage to Poland over Taiwan.

You might say "but you preferred Taiwan in the scheduling from the very beginning". Actually, this only happened because fartownik was unable to give times. If fartownik would've stated "Sunday pls" from the very beginning, I might have arranged it. But Taiwan was instantly claiming Saturday and Poland was like "next week pls" (which is impossible to do).
So I made the schedule like it is now, telling that "Next week is not possible".

Always consider that Poland is ABLE TO PLAY on Saturday, just not with ideal setup. (from what fartownik told me all the time)
xsrsbsns
1,935 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns
why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav

xsrsbsns wrote:

why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway
Because I make it happen.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
No matches are being postponed.

NO OTHER COMPETITION ON EARTH decides final times around players. We are no exception. It was *my* decision to disallow postponing/user scheduling this tournament. I am sponsoring the tournament. So no postponing.

Be there, or don't, and disappoint your fans, audience, and tournament staff.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Thread reopened! Good luck to all teams for the matches today :).
Darksonic
2,805 posts
Joined November 2010
Darksonic
Good luck.

And please, let's try to avoid anything that could start a drama again.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
When will the stats sheet be updated?
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin
Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Marcin wrote:

Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
Alright, fair enough thanks.
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
As long as maps are already picked and checked if they aren't retarded, should be okay.

Some drama might occur if any of the teams gets ddosed.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
I am still gathering additional opinions on the current "final mappool", trying to optimize it. Certain people are making themselves rare and hide in the shadows, so I can not ask them (even tho they were responsible for doing so).
Keep in mind that the mappool will be released tomorrow. (To keep the time span the same)
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke


Don't forget to be moe!
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

-Kamui- wrote:



Don't forget to be moe!
T-The moe is too strong...please go on without me
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
I'm crying.
2211178
2211178

jesus1412 wrote:

I'm crying.
Just try not to let the tears affect your reading beatmaps alright? XD
Mikelicious
337 posts
Joined September 2012
Mikelicious
Pls marry me -Kamui-
Andrea
Beatmap Nominator
16,650 posts
Joined August 2008
Andrea

Marcin wrote:

Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
Actually the 3rd match of Italy for Group Stage against United States is missing, just noticed.
Lapis-
407 posts
Joined June 2011
Lapis-
God save the queen.

Well played Korea.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama
Korea 6-1 United Kingdom

http://osu.ppy.sh/mp/3088440
Sonny B
17 posts
Joined February 2011
Sonny B
God save the queen, Nice to watch, shame about Jesus' connection problems and props to charley more or less being dropped in it and still doing nice.
gg Korea
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke

-MikexD- wrote:

Pls marry me -Kamui-
No =w=

also, gg Korea.

I blame Andrea for not making quit all korean players. Such bad man this Andrea. :(

jk ilu Andrea
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

jesus1412 wrote:

I'm crying.
SPOILER

god save the queen
Jimbot
22 posts
Joined October 2012
Jimbot
Well played Korea! :,(
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke

Lust wrote:

jesus1412 wrote:

I'm crying.
SPOILER

god save the queen
It wasn't daijoubu enough though.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
God save the queen.

We need better net in the UK, we should be as strong as google.
Starry-
osu! Alumni
1,074 posts
Joined December 2012
Starry-

jesus1412 wrote:

We need better net in the UK, we should be as strong as google.
DDOS proof pls.

GG either way.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WolferZ_old
19 posts
Joined May 2013
WolferZ_old
interesting score that WWW got on just awake when he is #1 on it
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
1: he isnt at home
2: mp is always harder
3: there are 9k people watching him
4: he spent multiple tries trying to get his #1

stop thinking things
Last edited by silmarilen , edited 1 time in total.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama
Taiwan 6-0 Poland

http://osu.ppy.sh/mp/3091169
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

WolferZ wrote:

interesting score that WWW got on just awake when he is #1 on it
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

silmarilen wrote:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Definitely honorable. :D

Anyway @WolferZ: Your post is pretty stupid in fact of the things silmarilen has wrote. ninja!
Andrea
Beatmap Nominator
16,650 posts
Joined August 2008
Andrea
Amazing to see that osu! is watched that much.

Also, great matches, it was really fun to watch.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
Taiwan too strong D:
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
taiwan power is scared!
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
3 stupid misses on 3 stupidly easy maps (one caused by lag) and it would be 3:3 and entertaining to watch. Well, Taiwan op

sorry guys
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

Stefan wrote:

SPOILER
Definitely honorable. :D

Anyway @WolferZ: Your post is pretty stupid in fact of the things silmarilen has wrote. ninja!


lol
Last edited by Loctav , edited 2 times in total.
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane
This Taiwan team…

Can Korea even stop them?
Mythiax
637 posts
Joined August 2012
Mythiax
The final is gonna be really nice to see.

Also.. 9k+ viewers. Nice osu!
Glazbom
274 posts
Joined December 2010
Glazbom
Rucker <3
bubby963
18 posts
Joined August 2011
bubby963
You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.

GG anyway.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

bubby963 wrote:

You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.

GG anyway.
It wasn't Korea. Blame my sub Google net.
Froslass
Beatmap Nominator
9,345 posts
Joined July 2008
Froslass

bubby963 wrote:

You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.

GG anyway.
Can we stop with the DDoS bullshit? It seems like a poor excuse for having played horribly bad. Also same for Germany.
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
I BEG YOU, organizers, make a loser bracket next year. Japan is totally top 3.......
Last edited by AmaiHachimitsu , edited 3 times in total.
Omgforz
166 posts
Joined November 2010
Omgforz
Yes, losers bracket pls


so ostriches have better chances next time
Natsu
8,100 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

-Kamui- wrote:

I blame Andrea for not making quit all korean players. Such bad man this Andrea. :(
lol xD Andrea no moe :p
rzkadi
781 posts
Joined November 2012
rzkadi

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

I BEG YOU, organizers, make a loser bracket next year. Japan is totally top 3.......
the 1st place from each group can get into winner bracket, meanwhile the 2nd place will start at the lower bracket. this would be really fun, and also the timespan will be exactly the same as single elimination system
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
That's not a loser bracket.
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West

Blue Dragon wrote:

bubby963 wrote:

You'd think Korea would be able to beat us without having to DDOS one of our best players (unless it was some random scrub who thought they were being funny) considering that Korea is arguably the best team in the world and UK is only high-seeded.

GG anyway.
Can we stop with the DDoS bullshit? It seems like a poor excuse for having played horribly bad. Also same for Germany.
Well it wasn't an excuse for playing bad this time. But still, throwing DDOS accusations around for disconnects? Please, can we not stoop to this level of petty bullshit, thanks.
Lokovodo
463 posts
Joined December 2012
Lokovodo
last
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Schedule is out. Mappool comes, soon. Finalizing it right now. I am hurrying already ;)

Consult wiki page for details.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
.doublepostyey

Mappool is out. Consult the wiki for more information.
Big thanks to JappyBabes, kriers, Frostmourne, Andrea and Leader for helping out on this.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
I think you overestimate our 1-play multiplayer FCing skills quite a lot.

edit: the freemod bracket is useless
Darksonic
2,805 posts
Joined November 2010
Darksonic
lol what, who added Reunion on HR bracket? that's super easy even for Group stage pool ._.
Froslass
Beatmap Nominator
9,345 posts
Joined July 2008
Froslass
lol, never expected one of my maps on OWC, mostly on the HR bracket
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Fixed a typo on the mappool. Caramel Heaven's diff was supposed to be [Heaven], lol.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
I like the mappool.
see, taking a bit of time and consulting players and mappers to prepare a pool doesn't hurt
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41974 you know why this map has so few HDHR FCs? Surely not because it's hard, it's only because it's fucking boring to learn the entire map from the scratch, and you make us do the most boring thing. I don't know if that was the purpose of the HD bracket in the first place.
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
FL bracket next year.



The mappool is mostly for 200+ streamsmashing, yes.
Salvage
590 posts
Joined January 2010
Salvage
lol'd at Reunion with HR, rest is fine i guess, still easy for what it was supposed to be on finals, but reunion is a joke for this stage.
martono_old
2 posts
Joined December 2011
martono_old
Inappropriate choices-
Guitar style(hd) : tooooo long and boring for a competition, especially in Finals
Reunion(hr) : shoule be at group stage or R16

Controversial choices-
Anisakis(hr) : with some annoying fast sliders under Hard Rock
Fermion(dt) : I'd like to see how the players handle such complex rhythm in MP
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West
They're not going to pick heaven's race, don't worry guys
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Heaven's Race is a terrible pick, AR 8 + HD on a map that requires A LOT of memorization.

Ningen Shikkaku is also boring to play, very long map with just a few "hard" parts.

I would say more but since I should have helped and didn't (sorry I couldn't) even then I posted comments about some maps and they kind of got ignored. The diff spread is also terrible, some maps are EXTREMELY easy while some others are actually hard to FC.

Hope I can be available around this time next year lol.
darkmiz
407 posts
Joined August 2011
darkmiz

fartownik wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41974 you know why this map has so few HDHR FCs? Surely not because it's hard, it's only because it's fucking boring to learn the entire map from the scratch, and you make us do the most boring thing. I don't know if that was the purpose of the HD bracket in the first place.
The purpose of the HD bracket is to test your HD reading abilities, same as any other mod.

Hidden does not require any memorization, if you can't read AR8 hidden then you shouldn't be in the finals.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

darkmiz wrote:

fartownik wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/41974 you know why this map has so few HDHR FCs? Surely not because it's hard, it's only because it's fucking boring to learn the entire map from the scratch, and you make us do the most boring thing. I don't know if that was the purpose of the HD bracket in the first place.
The purpose of the HD bracket is to test your HD reading abilities, same as any other mod.

Hidden does not require any memorization, if you can't read AR8 hidden then you shouldn't be in the finals.
Actually, HD does require some memorization if there are a lot of stack notes.
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
The purpose of the HD bracket is to test your HD reading abilities, same as any other mod.

Hidden does not require any memorization, if you can't read AR8 hidden then you shouldn't be in the finals.
0 out of thousands have FC'd this map first try with Hidden.

So many AR8 Noobs out there right








You should know that even when we perform quite ok first play with Hidden, it's not that we can always read well, we sometimes just predict that "the hidden thing under the slider end is a quad, not triple". I don't know what kind of skin you're using as to state that Hidden doesn't require memorization.

Even if we assume that every circle can be theoretically read, you should know that.... this is a 1-play tournament and even if we don't like it, we HAVE to memorize it as to play it comfortably during match. We have a whole week, it's no problem to learn how to play this map (this is why HD bracket is kind of useless) IF YOU HAVE TIME, which some people don't.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Wishy wrote:

Heaven's Race is a terrible pick, AR 8 + HD on a map that requires A LOT of memorization.

Ningen Shikkaku is also boring to play, very long map with just a few "hard" parts.

I would say more but since I should have helped and didn't (sorry I couldn't) even then I posted comments about some maps and they kind of got ignored. The diff spread is also terrible, some maps are EXTREMELY easy while some others are actually hard to FC.

Hope I can be available around this time next year lol.
When you posted comments, Loctav asked what was wrong in reference to them and got no response, you also have a very odd view on what it is an adequate difficulty for a map pool, things like Magic Girl or Ha-tenya on DT are simply unacceptable in the environment, Bamboo Dance shouldn't have been in the semis, a lot of people were honestly confused as to why something so difficult even for the top players to FC while playing solo was in the 2nd last map pool. A lot of the maps picked were in hopes to produce a map pool which had variety in what skills were required, DT has an AR9, something to test speed, single-tap/aim, and a map which is quite tricky to perform well on. This is the same mindset as was used to pick reunion, every single time I've watched the OWC stream, a team will have a few of their players break their combo and the other team will keep FCing and you're left sitting there for a minute of two already knowing the result (likely the participants too if there's a break to see team scores). Sure, reunion could have been a pick for group stages where not all teams would be able to consistently FC it, making it another one of these matches where you just wait for the song to end, but when you place it into a final map pool where all 8 players should be able to FC it without an issue as it's not demanding on aim or speed, you'd be unable to tell who should win half way through the map and wait for the next choice. Having every HR map selected, by aim, for the pools throughout every round does not seem like the best thing to do considering accuracy is one of the largest components of HR. And yeah picking HD is kind of iffy, because it doesn't actually modify the map, so you have to pick based on reading/memorization, no reason to negate one of the two reasons that HD increases the difficulty of a map without modifying it. End on a slightly more personal note, you have to keep in mind that your view on the difficulty of a map is extremely subjective, the only maps that are 'EXTREMELY easy' to FC are reunion and Caramel Heaven, I'd say. Caramel Heaven is probably the easiest pick in the entire pool, making it an acc war, yet it's in the free mod bracket and has a max combo of 1400-1500x, there's actually an incentive there to use mods as the maps don't become impossibly hard for the OWC environment and the bonus points from a mod at that combo is quite significant, unlike the group stage map pool where the risk far outweighed the reward for rather low combo maps. You've also barely been active throughout the entirety of this year Wishy, and you were AFK for map selection since group stages. Perhaps you should change that.

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AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
I think both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya would be good picks. You guys chose maps that need only one specific skill and I don't support such idea. There should be some all-in-ones in every bracket. DT for me is: Colors - jump and that's all, Parousia and Fermion - clicking speed only (Fermion has ridiculously high HP drain, just wait for those fails), Splendid Encount - Reading AR 10,3 only. Only Freemods look more or less balanced.

Also I dislike what you said about Reunion. You seem to have forgotten that we're playing under pressure. Easy-to-fc maps make it even worse because we ARE TO FC. I can totally foresee that there WILL be breaks if any of the teams chooses Reunion. And then all your accuracy talk will become obsolete. I think Metro pointed out earlier that solo=/=mp accuracy and I totally agree with that. This decision is more for spectators rather than for players.

I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
The same with this 5-minutes-long Hidden pick.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

I think both Magic Girl and Ha-Tenya would be good picks. You guys chose maps that need only one specific skill and I don't support such idea. There should be some all-in-ones in every bracket. DT for me is: Colors - jump and that's all, Parousia and Fermion - clicking speed only (Fermion has ridiculously high HP drain, just wait for those fails), Splendid Encount - Reading AR 10,3 only. Only Freemods look more or less balanced.

Also I dislike what you said about Reunion. You seem to have forgotten that we're playing under pressure. Easy-to-fc maps make it even worse because we ARE TO FC. I can totally foresee that there WILL be breaks if any of the teams chooses Reunion. And then all your accuracy talk will become obsolete. I think Metro pointed out earlier that solo=/=mp accuracy and I totally agree with that. This decision is more for spectators rather than for players.

I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
The same with this 5-minutes-long Hidden pick.
You think that Magic Girl and Ha-tenya would be more than appropriate for a finals map pool, then in the next paragraph say you wouldn't even be able to FC a map which has quite trivial aim requirements at a BPM<200. What do you find so appealing about a results screen which in all likelihood will end up having 8 As with less than half of an FC? In the OWC 1 play count environment, it seems like the winner of each map would just be determined by RNG. I don't see a good reason to put maps in, which as I said in the previous post the players with the best aim in the game could require hours to FC it or just give up in the end, in such a volatile situation. I'm not responsible for Mephisto in free mod, Nuclear Fusion would be too much of a risk also, spacing with HR is just absolutely mental and IIRC it becomes quite tricky with HD too. I already talked about Heaven's Race in the previous post, unless you are talking in specific about how long the map is, in which case I have to ask why that would be relevant.

JappyBabes wrote:

And yeah picking HD is kind of iffy, because it doesn't actually modify the map, so you have to pick based on reading/memorization, no reason to negate one of the two reasons that HD increases the difficulty of a map without modifying it.
Omgforz
166 posts
Joined November 2010
Omgforz

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

I'd like to read the reasoning behind Mephisto as Freemod. I'd switch it with nuclear fusion, this is subjective tho.
Ostrichstria is not happy with this. You just lost our ostrich blessing.

But on a more serious note, that hidden map gives people the chance to beat a better team if they practice it a lot. Then again you can start the discussion about "memorization is not a skill".
Last edited by Omgforz , edited 2 times in total.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

JappyBabes wrote:

I already talked about Heaven's Race in the previous post, unless you are talking in specific about how long the map is, in which case I have to ask why that would be relevant.
The problem I see with Heaven's Race is that it's a long and slow map. It wouldn't be very interesting to watch.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Unfortunately I was unable to change the free mod rule. The new freemod rule will apply on TWC then.
Like every year, we learn from flaws and mistakes and improve on it.
Some picks might appear odd for you, because it does appear "inconsistent" for you, but I share the idea that a varied set of skills should be tested in the finals. Reunion might be quite easy, but since everyone can probably play it easily, it results in close acc/score matches. Unfortunately the osu! Standard scoring rewards high combo too much. But well.
Maybe we can think of a cool metric in future (win by acc, Wishy suggested this once? Maybe we can create an acc-win bracket)

I'll probably do a survey with all participants and find out, what went wrong and what was cool. Luckily I can ask the entire population, ehee.
Rori Vidi Veni
175 posts
Joined January 2013
Rori Vidi Veni

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

we sometimes just predict that "the hidden thing under the slider end is a quad, not triple". I don't know what kind of skin you're using as to state that Hidden doesn't require memorization.
One with numbers on the notes, like 95% of players?

Loctav wrote:

Maybe we can create an acc-win bracket
Cool idea. I mean, consistiency is a big thing in a game like osu, so you shouldn't ditch it completely, but one bracket would be just fine.
Inb4 TAG bracket
Melt3dCheeze
186 posts
Joined January 2011
Melt3dCheeze
Incorporate FL bracket, clearly all players know how to FL.
Speaking of what went wrong, I might as well spit out an issue for Australia's team and probably some others(?)
Time zone differences, like when we had to vs Brazil, we had a really awkward timezone difference (12 hour diff). This didn't allow both teams maximum potential as they were playing really late at night and we were playing early that half of us were still asleep. To avoid this issue, I say restrict each bracket so that there aren't time zone difference 10 hours+ difference.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

Kuruku-san wrote:

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

we sometimes just predict that "the hidden thing under the slider end is a quad, not triple". I don't know what kind of skin you're using as to state that Hidden doesn't require memorization.
One with numbers on the notes, like 95% of players?
Okayokayokay guys, remember this: All pros play by reading the numbers on circles, because that's exactly how the game works \:D/
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav

Melt3dCheeze wrote:

To avoid this issue, I say restrict each bracket so that there aren't time zone difference 10 hours+ difference.
Until they meet up in the finals and we have the same issue again? Totally makes sense not.
This is an unavoidable issue we can not solve. Life is cruel. Timezones suck.

Zarerion wrote:

Okayokayokay guys, remember this: All pros play by reading the numbers on circles, because that's exactly how the game works \:D/
You don't play on EZ very much, do you? Ask SapphireGhost and MillhioreF how excellently number-reading works.
darkmiz
407 posts
Joined August 2011
darkmiz
you don't need numbers to read hidden.

My skin for Hidden


HR + HD
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