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osu! World Cup 2013 - Discussion Thread

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Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
No, it's definitely your inability to adapt and fear of stuff that happened in the past like long postponing.

What you should do is talk to both Taiwan and Poland team members and decide on a later time that will be convenient for both, doing it properly while both teams talk to each other. Delay the whole thing as much as needed and if you just let people talk to each other I'm sure it won't take longer than a week. The whole thing wouldn't have happened from the beginning if you just let people talk to each other more instead of making communications difficult. The teams don't need a third man to organize times for them, they can do it themselves. People who were playing for the entire year and waited for this wouldn't mind waiting a little longer to make sure everybody gets to play on their best shape, and I'm sure everybody else would like to see that too.

Stop using slogans like 'this can cause issues'. The biggest possible issue that can happen in a tournament, an event made purely for the players, is players getting screwed over. Your utmost highest priority should be to avoid this happening.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Considering that there are also other world cups in preparation, a postponing by a week is not possible. The tournament schedule was released on registration phase already. And we are not planning to change it.

Stuff is easier said than done. It's easy in your position to say "just do it, what's wrong with it", but I am not naive.
Also not asking the players is a quite dumb accusation. Taking a look on many many tournaments (UScup, OWC#2, even OWC#3) shows the issue in captains handling schedules.

Also postponing by a week is an unfair procedure considering the mappool practice time. Considering that all mappools gave you one week to be practiced, postponing all matches by 1 week give this pool 2 weeks, which is rather screwing the equality of the stages.

My utmost highest priority are fair and standardized matches. And I don't consider it as fair (in the great whole) to allow a single team better condition than others. The players are the focus. But not the polish players alone. All players are. Even those being kicked out already.

And you guys are probably the first blaming me for a messed up match because of an unattendance of taiwanese players. The so so called 'slogan' is no empty phrase. I clearly filled it with content and defined the issue (inability to adapt to postponed times from player sides, unfair treatment among others, giving advantages to one team)
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
I'm looking at farto's post and it doesn't seem to me like communication was handled properly.

Don't make up unrelated reasons like map practice times. Players on this level don't need more than 15 minutes to get familiar with a map, anything from there is their own play level which they have built over all this time and it won't change drastically in a week.

And thinking about stuff like teams who were kicked out at this point is what I mean with bad adaptation. I wasn't following this owc and didn't see how things went from the start, I'm sure there are things that could have gone better differently, but you should focus on how to make the best out of what you have right now instead of repeating mistakes you did in the past just because "that's what we did earlier".

If you want matches to be fair, let the teams talk to each other and decide on a time that they feel is fair for them. This is what should've been done from the start.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Just because Rucker and fartownik agreed to something, it doesn't guarantee that this won't cause issues to the taiwanese team now - in case of a postponing.
You still didn't understand the core problem or where the unfairness lies - or more like, why the change is now not possible because of the nature of postponings.


Suggesting captain-arranged times only shows that you didn't see what was going on on every tournament that was done like this.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
How about you ask the entire teams what they think about it instead of only team captains?
I'm not saying it should necessarily be on either Saturday or Sunday, I'm saying you have a serious communication problem right now and instead of working on resolving it you're making it worse.

Stop sticking your head in the mud of past events and -go and talk to people right now-. Go online and try to catch as many players from each team, ask them what they think, put them in a chat together and let them talk, ask them how and when to contact people who were offline or unreachable at the time, over the course of 2 days (especially now that it's the weekend) get to contact everybody and resolve this issue by letting everybody talk and agree on things together, instead of acting like talking is pointless and giving people the message that they should just deal with robotics decisions that are obsolete of logic.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
Considering the availability of every team member, this doesn't guarantee a good outcome. Especially when it comes to players with poor English skills or those who never check their pm folder.
(Asians aren't very famous for their brilliant English)

Experiences aren't empty value. There are clear reasons why stuff is done the way it is.
Repeating the same error over and over again isn't very helpful.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
Stop making things up, the Taiwan team speaks English well enough to understand you and reply, and is definitely available for chatting. The statuses for players show they were all active in recent hours (I messaged Rucker 2 days ago completely randomly and he instantly answered. <3 ) Same thing for Poland team, it's absolutely not difficult to reach and talk to at least most of the team.

At this point it sounds like you're just being lazy and looking for ways to throw the blame on others instead of doing your job as a tourney organizer.
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
At this point you just want to blame me no matter what for something that can not be helped or where risks are too high.
I won't take risks of that size in this stage anymore.
The match will not be postponed due to previously explained reasons. If you disagree, feel free. But I actually prioritize the fairness of a whole tournament.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
What risks? holy shit you're just making things up to be lazy and not do the things that a tourney organizer is actually supposed to be doing. I've seen irc/imageboard tournaments being organized better than this

I feel bad for the players who waited an entire year for this
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
You should read what I wrote. Screw your bias among me, since it's spoiling your view
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
What bias

find one person who thinks the current tourney organization is fine and that the teams are getting fair treatment
Soarezi
Soarezi
i wonder if there will be any games played LOL
Ilye_old
Ilye_old
Is captain just the empty title? Captains should be responsible enough to coummunicate with their own teammates and states like "other players could have problems with playing after postponing" shouldnt be considered. If captain agreed without considering his teammates' availability it is his own fault. Questioning every possibilty (which belongs to captain's duties) will lead to thoughts like "maybe he is too shy and acutally he dont want to postpone"

@edit
also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke


More moe posts in this thread pls!
yurunneram
682 posts
Joined January 2012
yurunneram

[-Aoi-] wrote:

also what's the problem with one week more of preparations? Its not that UK or Korea gonna play vs Poland/Taiwan on these maps. If both Taiwan and Poland will get same time this shouldnt be problem.
^ agree

I've had experience with bad communitcations once when planning for a big test for other people so I understand the possibility of the other teams having misunderstandings. I'd say the best way would be to postpone it by at least a week (not this saturday nor this sunday) so that the captains are given adequate time to inform everyone. From then on it will be the captains responsibility to ensure that everyone has the correct dates and time.

That's all..
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
From what I understand, fartownik actually told you beforehand that they were unable to play on Saturday, and in the end, they were scheduled on Saturday anyway without prior notice. You're talking about fairness, but the scheduling already made this unfair (not that it was put on Saturday, but that they weren't aware until it was "too late to postpone"). And lets face it, captains are very capable of managing their team. If they weren't, your schedule wouldn't work because the captains wouldn't contact their roster, and half the team wouldn't show up. You're basically insulting every captain in this tournament right now. Just look at farto, and tell me if he's doing a good job as a captain or not atm.
I seriously doubt that Taiwan would agree to postponing the match, if they weren't sure if they could get their main rooster.

And Loctav, you know. Instead of posting tons of excuses here and wasting time, why don't you actually speak to both captains to resolve the issue? Instead of outright refusing it and being stubborn, talk with the captains and come to an agreement.
Soarezi
Soarezi

-Kamui- wrote:



More moe posts in this thread pls!

>w<
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
fartownik's initial statement was, that they can not play on this entire weekend (including Sunday).
Every statement about "Let's play Sunday" Was after schedule release.

Also why is everyone implying that I am not trying to talk to everyone from Taiwan first? Why are you assuming so much? It's not like I can't post here and talk to people meanwhile . I already said that I will see what I can do, but for now you should consider the request as rejected.
Synchrostar
866 posts
Joined July 2010
Synchrostar

-Kamui- wrote:



More moe posts in this thread pls!
will you be my friend??? >w<
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
We're assuming it (or well, I am) because you're arguing to Aqo about how talking to the teams in a chat would be futile, saying the problem lies in the fact that there may be empty promises if you ask team captains, etc. etc. These are "what if" situations, so of course I'm going to assume you haven't actually spoken to them.

Well, if you're actually trying to resolve the issue, then that's fine.
Do remember the purpose of OWC though: it's to find the best country in the world at playing osu!

Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
It's not like it's a real life tournament when everyone gathers in a hall or something to do stuff for a weekend
Make an exception. Or the whole thing about OWC will be ruined
Infact the idea of organizators choosing times for teams to play is just bad I'd say. Captains are pretty capable of doing that by themselves cause they most likely know when the team is available or not (unless something happens)
Some timelimit for postponing is needed yeah, and that would be enough.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav

CXu wrote:

Edit: Yea I read farto's post wrong. He did say he couldn't play this weekend at all. This doesn't change the fact that you just "changed your mind". If postponing by a week wasn't possible, I bet Poland would to everything in their power to be able to play during the weekend. If you said Sunday, then that's when they're going to try and get their players to be available. If you then change it to Saturday without notice (and because you "changed your mind"), then that's still a fault on your part for miscommunication.
The gap between "I plan to do it on Sunday" and actually putting it on Saturday was like... 2 hours? Also since when is a "plan" a promise? I didnt promise anything. It's not like I said "it will be on Sunday, guaranteed". I aimed for Sunday first, but this didnt work out, so I changed my mind and put it on Saturday.
This "fault" is not a fault, since you do not know the context properly. It's ridiculous to say that "they prepared everything for Sunday then" when the actual schedule release and the "not-so-promised-promise" were like 2 hours apart from each other.
Mikelicious
337 posts
Joined September 2012
Mikelicious
-Kamui- for most moe player of OWC 2013
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
To clarify, we discussed a bit, I also talked to Uan and CXu and some others and they actually agree with certain points about what I consider as fair and unfair:

I can understand that Poland wants to play with ideal setup. Postponing the match results in Poland being able to play ideally. But postponing also results in Taiwan not being able to play ideally anymore. (SnowWhite can't play on Sunday for example, Uan is very limited here, too, might leave during match or something). Postponing the match now would be not neutral anymore, since I would give an advantage to Poland over Taiwan.

You might say "but you preferred Taiwan in the scheduling from the very beginning". Actually, this only happened because fartownik was unable to give times. If fartownik would've stated "Sunday pls" from the very beginning, I might have arranged it. But Taiwan was instantly claiming Saturday and Poland was like "next week pls" (which is impossible to do).
So I made the schedule like it is now, telling that "Next week is not possible".

Always consider that Poland is ABLE TO PLAY on Saturday, just not with ideal setup. (from what fartownik told me all the time)
xsrsbsns
1,936 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns
why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav

xsrsbsns wrote:

why is this guy still in charge of owc anyway
Because I make it happen.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
No matches are being postponed.

NO OTHER COMPETITION ON EARTH decides final times around players. We are no exception. It was *my* decision to disallow postponing/user scheduling this tournament. I am sponsoring the tournament. So no postponing.

Be there, or don't, and disappoint your fans, audience, and tournament staff.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Thread reopened! Good luck to all teams for the matches today :).
Darksonic
Global Moderator
2,794 posts
Joined November 2010
Darksonic
Good luck.

And please, let's try to avoid anything that could start a drama again.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
When will the stats sheet be updated?
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin
Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Marcin wrote:

Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
Alright, fair enough thanks.
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
As long as maps are already picked and checked if they aren't retarded, should be okay.

Some drama might occur if any of the teams gets ddosed.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Topic Starter
Loctav
I am still gathering additional opinions on the current "final mappool", trying to optimize it. Certain people are making themselves rare and hide in the shadows, so I can not ask them (even tho they were responsible for doing so).
Keep in mind that the mappool will be released tomorrow. (To keep the time span the same)
-Ryosuke
1,423 posts
Joined May 2011
-Ryosuke


Don't forget to be moe!
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

-Kamui- wrote:



Don't forget to be moe!
T-The moe is too strong...please go on without me
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
I'm crying.
2211178
2211178

jesus1412 wrote:

I'm crying.
Just try not to let the tears affect your reading beatmaps alright? XD
Mikelicious
337 posts
Joined September 2012
Mikelicious
Pls marry me -Kamui-
Andrea
Beatmap Nominator
16,650 posts
Joined August 2008
Andrea

Marcin wrote:

Uh https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Osu_World_Cup_2 ... ch_Results

Stats sheets were used only for group stage, to create SDR which matters in group stage. In knock-out stage it kinda... doesn't matter?

Also Google Docs scripting drives me crazy x.x I would need to create my own system for that.
Actually the 3rd match of Italy for Group Stage against United States is missing, just noticed.
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