Quotes wrote:

rEdo knowingly jumps onto a bandwagon when it has been very obvious - as well as stated in-thread through the screen cap of kook being idle from some silence from his avatar - that kook isn't going to reply any time soon, or will simply not respond to any post of his in any meaningful way and puts him at L-1. This reeks scum to me. Virtually everything else outside of early RVS looks like either it's speculating on set up or speculating on why the person I subbed in for speculated on set up.

the silence you've mentioned already went off before the time I posted (please compare the date he got silenced and the date Sakura posted), and so I thought he's gonna post his thoughts the time he gets unsilenced. yes, it indeed was a risky move, but I was trying to literally force him to talk... well, he hasn't been amused to respond at all. the way he posted was rather itching, and even though I had the idea that this might have really been just a newbie's attempt to give us something to start from, I had no other suspects at that time, I tried to push him to talk - scum could also be just lurking, just like him. if one couldn't say anything that would help hunting scum, you would've accused him of being one, right? and that's what I did this case.

Quotes wrote:

@rEdo, why should I vote for Sakura instead of you?

there's no reason why you should vote for either Sakura or me. Sakura has been trying to push people under the wall in order to force them to talk, and that's what I also tried to make kook talk. we also pushed Irreversible to make him talk, and look, that actually worked since he stated his thoughts about this game so far. that rEdo/Sakura scumteam you've mentioned wouldn't so blatantly push the same person at the same time, don't you think?

Quotes wrote:

@Jinxy, while I am glad that my preliminary vote on rEdo is interesting to you, you do nothing about it. Why?

Because I was waiting for more people, including rEdo himself, to comment or explain on it.

rEdo wrote:

the silence you've mentioned already went off before the time I posted (please compare the date he got silenced and the date Sakura posted), and so I thought he's gonna post his thoughts the time he gets unsilenced. yes, it indeed was a risky move, but I was trying to literally force him to talk... well, he hasn't been amused to respond at all. the way he posted was rather itching, and even though I had the idea that this might have really been just a newbie's attempt to give us something to start from, I had no other suspects at that time, I tried to push him to talk - scum could also be just lurking, just like him. if one couldn't say anything that would help hunting scum, you would've accused him of being one, right? and that's what I did this case.

Well, the time checks out. I think. Timezones and shit.

However, there was no way your "forcing" would have worked. Your vote put him on L-1 and after Sakura talked about Seki Saki's tendencies, there was no way anyone would leave kkk on L-1. You could have been gambling on Saki posting and hammering, which I find possible, since the next post (Cali's unvote) was 13 hours later if I'm counting correctly. I don't quite buy your explanation.]

I'm p. sure I had voted somewhere else before rEdo put his vote, otherwise I'd have given an L-1 warning since rEdo didnt.

Also when I posted the screenshot the silence was already over (notice how there's no "person cannot speak for another X hours/minutes/stuff")

I moved my vote from kookookook to Irreversible here: p/2555851 Leaving kookookook at L-3

rEdo votes kookookook here: p/2557144 Putting him back at L-2, this is way many pages after I mentioned the Saki issue and like a page or so after I mentioned the silence.

Seems to me here like someone's twisting the facts, or simply didnt read the thread well enough.

FoS: Quotes

Oh wait, it was Jinxy who brought that up.

FoS: Jinxy instead.

I honestly wasn't paying attention to the votes due to the compulsory-unvote rule, so Cali's next post made me think that rEdo did put kook on L-1.

Also, it doesn't matter when you said the Saki issue, if rEdo was scum, he could have just remembered it then and tried his luck, is what I was thinking.

Jinxy wrote:

I honestly wasn't paying attention to the votes due to the compulsory-unvote rule, so Cali's next post made me think that rEdo did put kook on L-1.

>I wasn't paying attention to the votes
>Another thing I also noticed was rEdo's vote that placed kook on L-1 was also after Sakura talked about Saki liking to Quickhammer

are you for real now? that's an accusation taken from the air.

Like I said, Cali's next post and Quotes's observation

So you werent paying attention to the votes, yet you noticed that rEdo voted him (even tho it was L-2 and not L-1 vote)

Unvote
Vote: Jinxy

Jinxy wrote:

Like I said, Cali's next post and Quotes's observation

but, you see, L-1 wasn't even the case this time, yet he was pretty much basing on that. I also wanted to mention that I've already had kook in my scum suspects, and now that Quotes replaced him, and you immediately tag along his theories... meh. I won't be the scapegoat for scum, sorry.

Vote: Jinxy
FoS: Quotes

Scumteam seems mad I figured them out.

there's no reason why you should vote for either Sakura or me. Sakura has been trying to push people under the wall in order to force them to talk, and that's what I also tried to make kook talk. we also pushed Irreversible to make him talk, and look, that actually worked since he stated his thoughts about this game so far. that rEdo/Sakura scumteam you've mentioned wouldn't so blatantly push the same person at the same time, don't you think?

Either is blatant buddying or is trying to use Sakura's act of being the one leading the Irreversible push as a reason why HE is townie, both of which are scummy.

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

@all regarding being wrong about the L-1 thing, I mostly read into that from the CalignoBot post and someone mentioning that it was L-1 immediately following the vote. I wasn't tracking votes and I don't remember seeing a particularly recent vote count so it stood out to me. Regardless of it being L-1, the act itself is either scummy or stupid. Placing another vote wasn't going to suddenly make kook active; he'd either come back or he wouldn't, and placing more votes on him just risks a quick hammer rather than actually scumhunting with semi-active to active players.

Back to reading, will post more.

rEdo's buddying has been noted, tho it doesnt mean much until one of my scumspects flip.

Bahahaha iso'ing Sakura is hilarious

Pressure on literally every user but rEdo. Here are all of Sakura's interactions with rEdo:

Sakura wrote:

rEdo wrote:

@Sakura: is "who's scum" a catch-phrase (since I saw people randomly using this a lot, even in this thread), or did you actually ask him who's scum?

Yes I did, it has a reason and I'll explain after Irre's reply.

This is it. The closest that Sakura comes for the rest of the game is after Caligno posts an FOS on rEdo, she posts:

Sakura wrote:

I'm actually thinking irreversible has higher chance of flipping scum, but i kind of feel bad because i have that feeling every game with him =/

Mostly trying to discredit me when I wasn't even attacking him, smells of chainsaw or WK.

Redirecting any possible pressure that would be placed on rEdo. Even now Sakura refuses to interact with rEdo as if she is afraid he'll say something stupid.

Oops I lied I missed one

Sakura wrote:

In that case it makes it even MORE suspicious, no PR would give him/herself away this soon without heavy fire at them, consider that he started getting voted by other people after that statement, not before.

Proceeds to tunnel kook's rolefishing and ignores all of rEdo's, which I will post about in great detail next!

Why are you making associations without flips?

Wtf it's saying I can only embed 2 quotes within another, hold up lemme see how I can fix this.

rEdo wrote:

Royston wrote:

Keep in mind that mafia already has some knowledge of the setup, based on if they have a roleblocker or not.

yup, they can narrow up to two possibilities: either {B, C, 1, 3} if they've got two Goons or {A, 2} if they've got a roleblocker, which I hope isn't the case this time. we have no idea what's the scenario, though, so I guess it would be safer to consider that they've got a roleblocker, just in case it's actually true.

It's early in the day; some speculation on set up is understandable if there is nothing else to start discussion. Slight scumread on "oh man i REALLY hope they don't have a roleblocker" in the same vein of "damn the doctor died." Not a solid read but this isn't a pro-town post.

rEdo wrote:

kook's saying that these setups are boring could be­ a slight way to claim a role, you know. he could've wanted to narrow up the possible setups, in order for us to give hints about his role, so I wouldn't be that sure about suspecting him right away.

but yeah, I kinda question myself what would be the reason for that...

Anti-town. Not necessarily scummy as my read on kook suggests but something to keep in mind.

rEdo wrote:

sounds interesting if that's how you think of it. I'd like to hear something from him first, though. kook, why did you think these two setups aren't likely to happen? are you really a PR, or just trying to cover up something you don't know?

FoS: kookookook

Sheeps Sakura's pressure on kook's rolefishing despite his last 2 posts coming off as slight apologies for what kook was posting. Wishy-washy implies very easily influenced townie or scum. Leans scum.

rEdo wrote:

DakeDekaane wrote:

[quote="kookookook"I think it'll not be 1 or B as these set-ups are too boring.

This is still calling my attention. So I'm sticking to that vote.

for some reason this makes me think that it's his way of saying "I'm not a Vanilla, I've got a PR". might've been overinterpretting things, though.[/quote]

Continues to role fish and indicates a belief that kook is a PR.

rEdo wrote:

Sakura wrote:

EBWODP: he knows kookookook is town.

I don't know if he's town, it just looks like a slight newbie's play for claiming town with some role to me... or so I'd say if he wasn't lying.

CalignoBot wrote:

He's openly PR-hunting. Town doesn't want to do this at the very least on D1; even if they see something like this, making it public is very anti-town.

ain't necessarily PR-hunting, I already said I wanna hear from him at first, and that way of talking is supposed to be a motivator for him to prove that he's not scum. I already mentioned he's a suspect to me, so if he won't talk, I'm okay with using a vote on him.

Is totally fine with then voting his PR lead and then with lynching him. "...or so I'd say if he wasn't lying" what the heck does this even mean? This is a horrendous post. Incredibly inconsistent with what his townie thoughts on the game would be and instead if hoping to take a pot shot at a villager speculating on set up in hopes he is a PR.

rEdo wrote:

now that was mean, Sakura :­(

Irreversible and Sakura's fight besides...

Vote: kookookook
I'm kinda tired of him not talking at all. I'm certain I must've overinterpretted that so called "weird PR call". he either randomly dropped by, saying "this setups are boring XXDXDXD won't be plaid" and stopped playing the game, or he's unexperienced scum and he doesn't want to talk at all, despite being asked for it.

Next post is a vote on his PR lead when kook has been super inactive and voting him will do nothing to add pressure. Buddies Sakura.

rEdo wrote:

DakeDekaane wrote:

[quote="Sakura"Hint: he's not town.

Hehe, matches so nicely with my thoughts.

so at first you were like against anything that Sakura said, started to shift between your statements, and now that she's claimed that she started to think ­that you're town, you've started to sheep to the wagons that she starts push? tsk, tsk. something doesn't seem right.

Unvote
Vote: Irreversible

also,

Mod: requesting for a replacement for kookookook. he's probably not gonna say anything that could help us, anyway. the only things he's done this game were some scumpings on page 5 and speculating the setup, saying two certain set-ups ain't gonna be used because they're "too boring".[/quote]

Unvotes after realizing kook is inactive is pro-town. Buddying Sakura once again and being angry that someone doesn't agree with her is scummy and blatant buddying. "tsk tsk" sounds incredibly fake as well

rEdo wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

I still don't think that his 'selfvote' was just for talking stuff, if it was, he would've unvoted hisself already, wouldn't he?

his vote is only temporary and has no real relevance nor connection with him being scum, as you just implied - he'll just change it when the right time comes.

also, I do work for town - I wanna lynch scum, and with every post you just prove yourself being one more and more. is there a particular reason why you think Royston is scum, or just "a gut feeling"? or perhaps you're just following Sakura's wagon just to divert the attention from yourself?

Pressing Irreversible is pro-town. Implying he is voting Royston out of following the Sakura wagon is hilariously hypocritical but not necessarily scummy. Believes Royston's action to be dumb town.

A couple fluff posts including the Sakura interaction here. Whatever.

rEdo wrote:

CalignoBot wrote:

(...) and rEdo didn't have an opinion at all (...)

just wanted to make it clear: at first his twist of statements seemed as mere confusion of his to me, but every further post started to ping me pretty hard he's scum, that's why I intervened just recently and started to pressure him.

Makes excuses for himself and his read with 0 pressure on him. Scummy.

rEdo wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

rEdo, who is 'us' ?

Sakura and me, as we're pushing you quite hard and you started to say stuff like "I don't even care anymore", so yeah

Irreversible wrote:

There is a particular reason, his inactivity when we voted him. calignobot immediately got active then, what lets me think they work together. It's obviously a good choice to stay quiet while you guys focus on me, isn't it?

CalignoBot apparently got active because your posts started to ping scum, as I've mentioned before, and that's what he's focusing on. he hasn't defended nor said a word about Royston (except for saying that he has no idea why Royston defended him). not sure about Roy's case, though, but he seems less scummy than you right now.

Royston read stays consistent; Towny. Once again says "Sakura and I" and then Caligno is mentioned as sort of an add on. Fairly null outside of a bit of buddying to Sakura, can be read as just inflating how much pressure he personally has done.

rEdo wrote:

Jinxy wrote:

I just noticed this, page 13. rEdo's talking about Dake, but then turns around and votes Irre? Like, no one has talked about this as far as I know?

ahaha, these goddamn avatars, I was sure it's Irreversible's post, thus started talking to him immediately XD

elaborating: he's been picked on by Sakura until the end of page 11, where Royston voted himself, and that's where he started to be suspicious as hell in my eyes (https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/2559420 pinged me like real hard, looks as if he was really relieved that he's clean from suspicion and immediately started sheeping to Sakura for a town-like read). apart from defending himself so boldly from a mere one vote, he also (after being asked for his reads) started to point his finger rather blatantly at Royston with a reason being him self-voting and defending Caligno for no particular reason. what worries me, though, Royston himself hasn't even responded to all of this, or rather, he responded with a mere "I felt like I had to say something".

Unvote

gotta rethink about stuff for now. good job Irreversible, you're getting town points :­)
I'd like to read something more relevant from Royston now.

Zero indication of why he now thinks Irreversible is getting townpoints indicates scum just riding bandwagons and pressure, also slight buddying to allowing Sakura to control the tempo of the game and trusting her. Royston read semi-consistent but wants more content which is fair, does start to waver on Royston based on things that before made him think town, but it's done in a semi-authentic way imo. Avatar thing is fine.

Why not speculate on partners? It's useful information, and I will have one of you two lynched today, because one of the two of you will provide by far the most information on who is scum this game.

I'll respond to more recent stuff later, I have a 2 page paper to write. Be back in 6 hours!

Oh and another reason I forgot is because I don't actually trust anyone in this village to press you Sakura, other than CalignoBot or Saki and neither of them seem to be willing to press particularly hard (especially with Saki being afk).

Oh wait, this set up doesn't show scum flip on death?

Quotes wrote:

Redirecting any possible pressure that would be placed on rEdo. Even now Sakura refuses to interact with rEdo as if she is afraid he'll say something stupid.

now that was mean :­(

Quotes wrote:

Why are you trying so hard to defeat the you/Sakura scumteam and defend Sakura instead of giving me a decent reason why YOU aren't scum?

the reason is simple - our scumsuspects were similar, and that's it. plus I tend to buddy up to people in my games :­D if we both were scum, we wouldn't just blatantly duo-force people to talk, that would seem way too obvious for air-headed people like you, isn't that right? Sakura seems rather town to me, so I guessed it would be easier to say that she's hunting scum that actually defending myself, since you wouldn't believe me with this attitude anyway.

about giving you a decent reason why I'm not scum - I've tried to make people who looked scummy in my eyes talk. my suspects were kook, recently Jinxy and Irreversible so far, and since I saw Sakura trying to make him talk, I didn't see a reason why I shouldn't tag along - pressure from even more people makes people more likely to talk. I have indeed buddied up to Sakura at that point, but that's the end to it. however, I haven't heard a single word from kook yet, which leaves me really unsatisfied. as for now I could say that Royston is also acting pretty weird, but it's not enough for me to make any accusiations, as right now I wanna push an another wagon anyway, and I believe I'm working in a good way.

like I said, I haven't heard a word from kook yet, and this is where I ask you the same question - please give me a reason why you aren't scum. that whole accusiation just pings me even harder that you've got potential to be scum. I could also browse through your ISO thoroughly, but you just popped out of nowhere and picked a person which changed his opinions more than everybody else, which places me in a worse spot as a townie just in order to get an easy lynch today.

It does, newbies arent bastard

Partner speculation early on will really hurt town in the long run, suppose you lynch me, I flip town then you're gonna say "So rEdo's scum for buddying her" suppose he flips town too, then you're at LyLo with zero info to go on and scumhunt, if someone flips scum then yes, their interactions are something to look at.

Otherwise looks like a nice way for scum to setup mislynches for others.

And yes i consider your interaction analisis almost as bad as the TvS tell.

Ok I was going to be really mad if I was in a game with no cardflip. I hate no cardflip, there's no reward after a lynch of knowing you lynched correctly or not.

Sakura wrote:

So you werent paying attention to the votes, yet you noticed that rEdo voted him (even tho it was L-2 and not L-1 vote)

...Seriously? I thought it was obvious that I meant the votecount, since the extra requirement makes it harder to know which votes actually count. Who the heck doesn't notice bolded votes?

rEdo wrote:

plus I tend to buddy up to people in my games :­D

Trying to explain away an anti-town tell with the classic "I always do that" excuse, I see.

rEdo wrote:

I could also browse through [Quotes's] ISO thoroughly, but [he] just popped out of nowhere and picked a person which changed his opinions more than everybody else, which places me in a worse spot as a townie just in order to get an easy lynch today.

Wait, what? This is pinging me. Someone else catches you being inconsistent, and you're calling him scummy for it?
Vote: rEdo

Sakura wrote:

And yes i consider your interaction analisis almost as bad as the TvS tell.

What's the TvS tell?

TvS tell when scum sees 2 townies arguing and says "This is a Town vs Scum fight" hence gets one lynched and flips town and goes "Oh then the scum is the other one" then lynches the other one who also flips town, then they scored 2 mislynches without much effort, which is why when someone says that they consider it a scumtell.

Unvote

Well, first of all, I understand the word 'flip' itself, but I don't really get the meaning of it - what do you mean with that when you're talking about it? Sakura, you've asked me this question once, and I didn't answer to it, because I didn't understand why you I were voting without flipping.

Secondly, reDo, you're wagonning so much aren't you? You've just did it again. Mostly with Sakura as well, but I don't think you both would make it so suspicious. With your last post that kook isn't posting you've made yourself a bit more scumside, because you've mentioned him several times in your post, which shows me a kind of panic that people get their votes on you, while you try to put attention on kook.

About Caligno: Why so quiet AGAIN?

And Quotes: About the random voting stuff. I thought you mean the normal posts, but as I saw you were talking about the first random votes, well, ok.

flipping is when the mod reveals the alignment and role of a player (usually by death)

Irreversible wrote:

Secondly, reDo, you're wagonning so much aren't you? You've just did it again. Mostly with Sakura as well, but I don't think you both would make it so suspicious. With your last post that kook isn't posting you've made yourself a bit more scumside, because you've mentioned him several times in your post, which shows me a kind of panic that people get their votes on you, while you try to put attention on kook.

not necessarily wagoning, I just wanted to clarify the fact that kook wasn't active at all, while giving me a gloomy feeling with his posts. that's why I'm forcing that statement, and that I'd like to hear why Quotes would not be scum. however, he has no real ISO except for accusing me, and that's rather frustrating that he can just mock people with a high possibility of being scum himself, and nobody can post anything against him. also, at the same time Quotes got into the game, Jinxy gave me a feeling of being way more confident in his posts, and that gave me even more of a gloomy feeling, hence my vote.

Where the heck did I make a TvS argument? I'm telling people that both Sakura and rEdo are mafia. I fail to see at what point I am painting this idea of "one of the two are scum"

Sakura wrote:

And yes i consider your interaction analisis almost as bad as the TvS tell.

learn2read

And back to your analysis if we 2 were scum, what would be the purpose of avoiding interaction with my scumpartner?

Alright, let's go back to Caligno then, won't unvote until he made a clear post he's town.

CalignoBot

I'm a bit unsure about this wagoning all the time, but since CalignoBot made the worse ones imo, my vote stays on him.

Vote: CalignoBot omg sorry ¬¬

Irreversible wrote:

About Caligno: Why so quiet AGAIN?

Two entire pages popped up while I was asleep and I'm never in a mood to catch up on that amount of posts until I've been awake for a few hours. If you're going to try to use that argument, take times into account.

I have yet to see a remotely persuasive case from you, too.

Sakura wrote:

Normally when people replace into scumslots tend to give some amished tell, which is why when people replace in I always ask them their thoughts on their predecessor.

Yeah, no. The amished tell only works when they're not told to give their thoughts.

---

The L-1 issue is dead null.

Sakura+rEdo scumteam has some merit after the top of page 19. That's not a persuasive point at all to vote for the single most protown player in the game up to this point. If one of them ends up flipping scum, the other goes straight to the top of my list. It really irks me how both of them tried to turn the tables back on Quotes after he put pressure on them as a first response.

I thought you were better than that, considering how you super buddied me on tit for tat when you were scum knowing I was town.

You should be able to tell the difference between that situation and this one pretty easily.

CalignoBot wrote:

You should be able to tell the difference between that situation and this one pretty easily.

The only difference that I can see is that I was lynchbait there.

@Sakura, how have you not responded to my ISO on rEdo yet? Is there something I am missing or are incorrect in assuming in my read on him? Clearly you implicitly think I am wrong in my read by continuing to believe that I am wrong in my push, but yet say absolutely nothing about your own thoughts on rEdo and why you think what you do.

Please tell me why you think he is town

Please Quotes, this is so senseless. I don't think either of them would be so stupid that they would make it so obvious - if they were scumpartners, they would act differently, I strongly suppose. It COULD be one of them is scum, but I dont think they're scumpartners.

What about the inactive ones btw?