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Mystery Mafia (Town Win!)

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Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
I just realized 2 things.

1. We are also not guaranteed to have a secret vigilante or cop. This entire plan hinges on the importance of having at least one of these roles. I strongly doubt that we don't, but it IS possible.

2. No lynching today actively stifles information. Considering that we most likely won't gain anything too concrete tonight, we should make up for it by going through with a lynch today and use the information we get to help us tomorrow.

To be honest, I actually think that no lynch is more universally negative than positive at this point. I don't support this at all.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa

BRBP wrote:

What?

It was pieguy's idea, Tanz's post implied he was against it.
We interpret pieguy too different

pieguy1372 wrote:

I bet RB has a secret role now just cause he asked XD
not sure if a roleclaim would work in this scenario. after thinking about it for a few seconds, I don't think it would hurt us much, although some of the more useful roles are probably the ones with night actions o.o

Tanzklaue wrote:

okay, I am mystery, and I can't wait to blow someones face off :3

Tanzklaue wrote:

I claimed because I'm tired and dumb I thought quara already claimed aswell.

at least I would interpret "fool with nightaction" as that.

Tanzklaue wrote:

in retrospect, I don't really understand why I claimed that fast... I am really dumb
And the fact that he's just BEGGING to be lynched...

Raging Bull wrote:

Yes I'm secret role. Not like that would give much away, especially since I don't even know if I'm VT or some passive ability.
DON'T YOU FOLLOW BRO!!!

fartownik wrote:

Massclaim is totally useless in this game, unless you're mafia. It worked in the Stack the Deck because we had some idea of the current roles, but here we have pretty much none. What would massclaim give us? What would be our plan after it? Lynching off the 'VTs' (aka Secret roles) would be invalid here because they might be PRs as well and we don't know what PRs exactly. We know nothing while scum can plan the nightkill more thoroughly.

Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue

The claim looked like a slip. No one said we massclaim and you rushed with it. Gives me bumps you wanted to cause a domino effect, similar to NH's in the Stack the Deck game.
OMG FART TOWN!!! :O

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.

also, if I wanted to pull off something similiar to what you did, I would've waited longer until a claim of mine would have made it impossible to stop the claim.

la la la I'm PR don't lynch me pl0x la la la

Tanzklaue wrote:

tsukasa, on the other hand, is still fishy. he quoted my doubt about the massclaim and then accused me of slipping, instead of quoting the actual claim. I get a feeling that he wants to carry over the random vote into a fairly quick lynch.
DEFLECTIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!

Quaraezha wrote:

As discussed. There are most likely 2 mafia, unless a MYLO with 3.

I'm gonna go ahead and Vote: No Lynch on this one.
With no leads, I'd rather have one town be killed than two in D2.
And I'm interested to see what everyone's abilities are capable of.
Qua is town. Probably. Maybe. IDK

But I for one don't like the idea of no lynch.
1) Being that mafia can have free kill
2) OMG MASSCLAIM ON D2 MADNESS!!!!!!
3) Scum pool never lessens when we never lynch
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Whoops Double post
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Topic Starter
Kanye West
Can a BAT please remove that :/
Last edited by Sakura , edited 1 time in total.
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha

Tsukasa wrote:

But I for one don't like the idea of no lynch.
1) Being that mafia can have free kill
2) OMG MASSCLAIM ON D2 MADNESS!!!!!!
3) Scum pool never lessens when we never lynch
Even if we do luckily lynch a mafia today, the other mafia/s can still kill tonight, regardless (unless there's doc/rb)

I know how NL in D1 is usually not the best strategy for other mafia games, but this one is abnormal.
We don't even know what our own roles do, and lynching randomly (or based on mere scumhunt) in this random, unknown setup is just truly absurd.

As for massclaiming on D2, that's for everyone to decide. Keep in mind that Mafia can still easily fake a report without proof.
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha
Also my bad, I just noticed I said "MYLO with 3 Mafia"
Which it isn't, by the way. I miscounted and thought there were 7 players.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Lynching randomly still gives us a chance to get scum. It doesn't matter if the other mafia will be alive to send in the kill, they still lost one.
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha
I want to assume that everyone has at least one specialty and none of us is a regular townie.
And it would be bad to mislynch someone special.

The're also a possibility of having a fool/jester among the Special Roles too.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
The way I read the OP, only scum and town.


@mod, is there a third party?
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
The way I see it is;

We lynch now with a 2/9 chance of getting scum and a 7/9 chance of killing off a potentially good role (we cannot know for obvious reasons). The night will end up with 1 mafia on the best case scenario or minus 1 mystery role in the worst case scenario.

We no lynch now, 2 mafia guaranteed to be alive for the night but a higher chance of producing a favourable night result (they might shoot a bulletproof, they might get themselves killed etc).

So wait, what about day 2?

Both situations will be almost exactly the same; PR have to claim their roles/results if we want to actually know what might have transpired overnight. The only other information we'll have is wifom at best (voting patterns etc). The exception is 1 scenario has a 0% chance of being 1 town down for that night and 1 scenario has a 77% being 1 town down for the night. In my opinion no lynching is really only detrimental if VT outweigh PR (because lynch is the most powerful tool) but seeing everyone is potentially a "PR" (secret roles are sorta kinda I guess) I'd say damage control on day 1 is more beneficial than a wild stab. (ie do we play it safe or do we take a stab and hope for the best?)

That's how I see it anyway.
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha
Worst Case Scenario is that there are actually 3 mafias, we mislynched Day 1, a vigilante kills a townie and mafia nightkills another townie. Which pretty much ends the game. Hilariously too.

I wish to give everyone a chance and at least try out their abilities tonight. a 2/9 or 3/9 chance of lynching scum is not worth it, in my opinion.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
3/9 would be super imba for the mafia.

I simply don't believe there is 3 (2-1-6 is FAR more likely if it was to be like that)
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Vote: Quaraezha
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Can we stop focusing about the PR?

Like... Seriously. PR predicting will get us NO WHERE
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Who's predicting PR's? (ie who's saying this guy is this role)

Don't give angry conjecture without trying to make a counter point.

Also explain why it's a waste of time trying to discuss these matters.

Seriously.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Oh yeah Tsukasa for mafia for attempting to suppress discussion.

Yep.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa

Rantai wrote:

Who's predicting PR's? (ie who's saying this guy is this role)

Don't give angry conjecture without trying to make a counter point.

Also explain why it's a waste of time trying to discuss these matters.

Seriously.
Uh... PR predicting = Trying to guess what "potential" PRs are out there. Like what Qua is doing :V

Rantai wrote:

Oh yeah Tsukasa for mafia for attempting to suppress discussion.

Yep.
I... am so... going to try to ignore this :roll:
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
And these guys are being too afraid to lynch just because of potential PRs. Which is pretty bad.

You know what people say

"BREAK THE CHAINS OF FEAR THAT BIND YOU TO THE GROUND"
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
And being too afraid to lynch would get us nowhere. Scum only die when they are lynched.

Honestly, I'd rather have a lynch with chance rather that a No-Lynch with nothing
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Ok. He's making assumptions, within reasonable bounds. Predicting? Sure why not;

And you blatantly dodged the rest of the questions.

Great work.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Oh 2 more posts turned up.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki

Quaraezha wrote:

I want to assume that everyone has at least one specialty and none of us is a regular townie.
And it would be bad to mislynch someone special.

The're also a possibility of having a fool/jester among the Special Roles too.
^ This post is a big reason why I'm voting this guy BTW.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
And I'd rather give town the most actions at night.

There is a difference between "being too afraid to lynch" (macho complex anyone?) and weighing risk vs reward in a situation. In my case I see a 22% chance of lynching scum against the loss of 2 town not worth it for this setup.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Caligno town, desu
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Rantai, what is your read on Quaraezha?
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Null.

While I don't like the fact that he keeps alluding to a 3 mafia possibility, whatever he's spouting out right now isn't indicative of much (in relation to role speculation).
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Vote: Rantai :V
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Proof right there that your day 1 reads are pretty much worthless ^_^
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
They actually do >w>
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
*Actually worth something

Dat wrong wording
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
I'll just rub it in later.

Anyway getting past that, Caligno, why is that post scummy to you? (Q's one)

Didn't quite see it explained from you.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
OMG BRBP!!!

YES!!!

THAT IS A PERFECT QUESTION!!!

I give you pat on head
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
here's the problem with considering risk/reward, certain ratios are essentially the same

Consider the ratio 3:1 on a day round. since we must no lynch (otherwise we have a higher chance than necessary of losing), it's the exact same as 2:1 just with another night round. Likewise, 4:2 is the same idea as 3:2. given this setup I'd be 90% certain there's a vigilante or a paranoid gun owner or something along those lines, so if we lynch wrong today it's 6:2 -> 4:2 on D2 and we just have to NL anyway. I prefer to NL today because then we have more information (night actions etc.) before we lynch.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Rantai, both the reasons Quar stated in the post I quoted were completely fallacious arguments.

1. It would be bad to mislynch someone special -- He's basically saying that mislynching would be bad, since everyone is special. Saying we shouldn't lynch at all because mislynching would be bad is entirely fallacious and scummy to boot. We can't assume we'll have any way of killing scum without lynching until it's proven otherwise.

2. A special role can be a fool or jester -- This is just scummy noise. He's very clearly all for no lynching and using whatever argument he can in order to get it through. The way he's doing it at this point makes me believe he's scum more than town.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai

BRBP wrote:

Question to you more experienced people: If a roleblocker and a vig target the same guy, don't they both think they're the vig the day after? I'm not sure if either of those roles get a confirmation message from their action (killed X or roleblocked X) like trackers etc do. inb4 one says he's a vig and the other guy counter-claims -> we lynch a townie. Not sure if this makes sense or not ;w;
Pretty sure they don't get confirmation for their actions.

While the chances of that happening are even lower than lynching a mafia (consider role pool, chances of 2 people, 1 being a vig, targeting the same person), that would present a very awkward situation. Though I can see a problem if a town targeted the same guy as the mafia faction kill.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
mod confirming actions here makes no sense cause then players know what their role is

I'm really not sure what Quaraezha is trying to say. While we may have VTs, we can't exactly stop ourselves from mislynching no matter what happens in this game. Trying to stop it just isn't gonna work.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
The problem with your proposal, pieguy, is this:

We actually get less information if we no lynch -> lynch than if we lynch -> no lynch.

Like I said before, we gain very little information in nearly all cases based on night actions alone, so we will have to rely on scumhunting. Starting a game with this premise in mind with a no lynch makes very little sense.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
can't we just scumhunt on D2 the same way we would D1
I'm not sure exactly what information we'd be losing...
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai

CalignoBot wrote:

1. It would be bad to mislynch someone special -- He's basically saying that mislynching would be bad, since everyone is special. Saying we shouldn't lynch at all because mislynching would be bad is entirely fallacious and scummy to boot. We can't assume we'll have any way of killing scum without lynching until it's proven otherwise.

2. A special role can be a fool or jester -- This is just scummy noise. He's very clearly all for no lynching and using whatever argument he can in order to get it through. The way he's doing it at this point makes me believe he's scum more than town.
Thanks.

1. I can see where you're coming from. I had interpreted that he was only referring to day 1 (similar to me). That wording does no favours.

2. Okay, that makes sense. I had dismissed it as speculation but your point is valid.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Why are we even adding Vig into the equation?

All I see is town vs scumz.

Treat everyone as a VT unless confirmed
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
I forgot to mention that No Lynching may not even be optimal on D2 depending on what the flips are and any information we get from night actions.

It's delaying information. It's not in town's best interest to delay getting information. With how quickly I can see this game going downhill if we get really bad luck on night actions, I'm very wary of pushing any information we can use to Day 3.

Plus, it's a lot easier to catch scum in later days when the really-early game can be analyzed. We could very easily have at least one person flip and be completely useless to the town if we just no lynch.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Or we could scumhunt as early as D1 which is better >.>
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai

CalignoBot wrote:

The problem with your proposal, pieguy, is this:

We actually get less information if we no lynch -> lynch than if we lynch -> no lynch.

Like I said before, we gain very little information in nearly all cases based on night actions alone, so we will have to rely on scumhunting. Starting a game with this premise in mind with a no lynch makes very little sense.
Scumhunting on day 1 is weak at best, however. We still have the same information when you think about it (who is for or against no lynch for example). I guess we lose the speculation on who was on the wagon at the time of lynch.

Is it enough to justify it though?
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
I'm a big fan of following votes and wagon D1.

Talking about flips (especially when it won't really get anywhere; which is almost certainly what will happen) and focusing on that is a perfect cover for scum. I would much rather keep that cover from being exploitable.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
You know...

We'd rather have a super informative mislynch than a no-dice No-lynch
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Jeez, I hate this feeling when waking up to 3 sites of unread posts.

I see a point in Tsukasa's and Caligno's reasoning for the lynch. The no lynch wasn't confirmed yet, everyone was asked to state their opinions and they did. Looking at this now - no matter if we lynch or nolynch - we will pretty much base on randomness D2 anyways. The night actions will still happen even if we lynch today, but we will start to gather some information about the potential mafia (judging by what the target flips). We can't assume the worst case scenario will happen for sure - we have to try our best to minimalize the chances of it happening. If it happens then fine, we will try to find the best way out tommorrow, but right now we should concentrate on what would be the best to gain at least A LITTLE information. We will have SOME for sure, but it might be biased and totally confusing because of the unknown roles, and it's risky to only base on that.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Given a generic setup, I'd be agreeing.

But with this setup, I simply believe that we will have more benefit with the NL. (this isn't just applying to cop roles getting stuff at night etc, it also applies to the fact mafia could be nullified unwittingly, kill themselves etc). So it's more of a potential for more information that a wagon could give and the potential for mafia to suicide/get nullified/something else.

My take on it, again.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
That will happen whether we lynch or not. I don't see why no lynching gives us more information from night actions than not.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Ok I kinda just noticed that the sun is coming up.

Maybe I should sleep now.

Voting for Quaraezha is free towncred.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Tsukasa wrote:

You know...

We'd rather have a super informative mislynch than a no-dice No-lynch
yep, the super-informative "hey we killed a town cop \o\" or the very cool "we got a vig today guyz!"...

I'm indifferent to both propositions at this point, my point about mystery vssecret role still stands, caligno's point about quara makes sense, farTOWNik is still town in my eyes, rantai aand caligno leans town, tsukasa leans scum, the rest is kind of null.

quara: I completly agree with everything caligno said, it really is scummy to push NL with things like "what if jester?".

tsukasa: heavily focusing on me out of a random vote, not addressing the right posts even at times, then all of a sudden going full attack mode on rantai, who brought up several good points, just rubs me in all the wrong spots. from your line of argumentation though, you seem to be aligned with caligno. either you are a obv scum or a much worse town than he is.

so yea, quaraxanyone and tsukasaxanyone are my both leads at this point, though I don't really think that both of them are scum. keep in mind that scum has daychat, so they can organise themselves pretty well. if something looks like it is out of character for one person, or if two people just agree (or disgree) too conveniently, then that might lead us to scum aswell.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Because on the likely chance of a mislynch, we're down 1 role for relatively weak information.

Yes, that role may or may not have much bearing on the outcome but I'd prefer that role and what info we have from day 1 over a handful of speculative information (+d1).
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

CalignoBot wrote:

That will happen whether we lynch or not. I don't see why no lynching gives us more information from night actions than not.
2/3/4/whatever PRs can do more stuff than 1/2/3/whatever-1 PRs can do.

on the other hand, a myslynch only gives us the bitter taste of "look what awesomeness we could've had in this night :/".
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Like we're sure we have a cop >.>

And it's called being aggressive. Unlike everyone here being so passive (Except Caligno and a bit of pieguy and rantai though <3) which takes us nowhere.

In addition, Not every town lynch is a bad lynch. Obviously you haven't experienced to have a good mislynch.

And another thing...

Tanzklaue wrote:

Qua: Oh god I agree with Caligno

Tsukasa: Oh god Caligno is stupidly bad town
>.>
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Tsukasa wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

Qua: Oh god I agree with Caligno

Tsukasa: Oh god Caligno is stupidly bad town
>.>
I said you are stupidly bad town.

lrn2read scum.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Also I doubt there's a Jester in the game. How would Jester know he should get lynched when he has no information of his own role? He would only get the information that he's a 3rd party, which could basically mean he's: a Survivor or a Jester when Secret Role - how should he know if he should get lynched or avoid getting killed at all costs? This seems unfair; and a Serial Killer/Arsonist/Inquistor when Mystery. If there's any third party it's most likely a killing role.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
my point was, though I lean town for caligno, I don't disclose the possibility of you and caligno being a scumteam. it seems to be the most likely out of all the high Wifom-scumteams.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa

Tanzklaue wrote:

tsukasa: heavily focusing on me out of a random vote, not addressing the right posts even at times, then all of a sudden going full attack mode on rantai, who brought up several good points, just rubs me in all the wrong spots. from your line of argumentation though, you seem to be aligned with caligno. either you are a obv scum or a much worse town than he is.

Tanzklaue wrote:

a much worse town than he is.

Tanzklaue wrote:

than he is.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
which implies that he is a good townie.

what is your problem?
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha
I'm still pushing No Lynch.

We can't really obtain anything from the information a mislynch can give us.
If anything, that just narrows down the possibilities of OUR roles.
ie if doc dies, none of us can't be doc.
It's pretty much the same information we get from a nightkill.
And having 2 town deaths won't do much.

And as I mentioned, everyone is most likely a non-regular role.
So it's best to benefit from their specialty while it's still early.

I'd rather hear his report on D2 than know his role from a mislynch.
Despite both not really being much, but it's enough to go on by D2.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Uh... The way you used it implies that he's a bad townie, and I'm worse than him. That is what those words will mean.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
It can be read both ways to be fair.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
all this grammar stuff aside...

Another thing about it is the slight possibility of a scum PR.

Meaning he could pretty much slide to victory for thinking him a town
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I'm pretty sure those words mean that you are a much worse townie than he is.

I build up my opinion about caligno, which is that he is an incredible townie (which partly is the reason for me to follow him on his reads on quara). really, the only thing I said is that you are on the same side with him, so if you flip scum I will have a strong believe for him being scum aswell.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
jesus christ reading.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai

Tsukasa wrote:

all this grammar stuff aside...

Another thing about it is the slight possibility of a scum PR.

Meaning he could pretty much slide to victory for thinking him a town
I think that scum PR is implied in this game. A PR claim won't necessarily be a town-read.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
But we will read it as a PR-cred.

And people being paranoid of lynching PRs
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Then again, everyone is a pr of sorts so it has less bearing than other games.

That and there are obviously ways to determine who to lynch (inconsistencies for one).
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha
Having reports is still better than no reports. Especially in this setup.
That and scumhunting should be enough for us to lynch mafia. Especially when there are contradictions.
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
We'll have our reports regardless of a lynch or not
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
What I'm saying is I'd like a chance of having double info than just single info
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha

Tanzklaue wrote:

on the other hand, a myslynch only gives us the bitter taste of "look what awesomeness we could've had in this night :/".
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

Tsukasa wrote:

Raging Bull wrote:

Yes I'm secret role. Not like that would give much away, especially since I don't even know if I'm VT or some passive ability.
DON'T YOU FOLLOW BRO!!!
Not sure what you mean here.

pieguy1372 wrote:

can't we just scumhunt on D2 the same way we would D1
I'm not sure exactly what information we'd be losing...
Seems like a waste of a day to me if we just scumhunt in D2, why not just start now instead?


stuff stuff stuff


I just don't think no lynching is a good idea. Why waste a day where we can have a potential to kill scum? Plus no one mentions if mafia were to shoot paranoid gun owner. People seem to only mention two town deaths. And if there is a vigilante, what if he shoots scum? Maybe I just don't think worst case scenarios like you guys do.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai

Raging Bull wrote:

I just don't think no lynching is a good idea. Why waste a day where we can have a potential to kill scum? Plus no one mentions if mafia were to shoot paranoid gun owner. People seem to only mention two town deaths. And if there is a vigilante, what if he shoots scum? Maybe I just don't think worst case scenarios like you guys do.

Rantai wrote:

(this isn't just applying to cop roles getting stuff at night etc, it also applies to the fact mafia could be nullified unwittingly, kill themselves etc). So it's more of a potential for more information that a wagon could give and the potential for mafia to suicide/get nullified/something else.
I do mention it, but I suspect you mean it in the context of lynching.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
I didn't say everyone, dear :D I know you think outside the box.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Come join the no lynch party.

Oh god I need to stop watching politics
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Well I'm thinking about it


@tsukasa, Just wondering, but what information can you get if it was a town that was lynched instead of mafia?
Tsukasa
471 posts
Joined June 2011
Tsukasa
Information that are not limited to

1) Scumz on wagon
2) Scum hammer-Town hammer difference
3) Scum-Scum Relationship
4) Town-Scum Relationship
5) Decrease in scumpool
6) The potential of actually lessening mislynch when a wagon is currently active (Meaning It's still not lynched but probably about to, unless some undeniable force acts on it)
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha
Not to mention knowing the role that you aren't after Kanye reveals them.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

Tsukasa wrote:

Information that are not limited to

1) Scumz on wagon
2) Scum hammer-Town hammer difference
3) Scum-Scum Relationship
4) Town-Scum Relationship
5) Decrease in scumpool
6) The potential of actually lessening mislynch when a wagon is currently active (Meaning It's still not lynched but probably about to, unless some undeniable force acts on it)
The way I see it, seems like "Interesting N1 vs information now" :<


@mod, what's the vote count?
Also

Raging Bull wrote:

@mod, is there a third party?
I tend to go off OP words ( which probably isn't a good idea) but Q's throwing "what if jester/fool" is just suspicious to me.
Quaraezha
1,491 posts
Joined February 2011
Quaraezha

Raging Bull wrote:

I tend to go off OP words ( which probably isn't a good idea) but Q's throwing "what if jester/fool" is just suspicious to me.
I guess I played too much Random Setups in EpicMafia. Got used to playing a setup that has 3rd parties.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
I'll respond to what happened overnight in more depth a bit later, but I just woke up so I won't do it right now.

Tanzklaue is probably scum too. He's pinging one of my secret scumtells pretty hard and a couple of his arguments are really scummy.

I'm really not liking all the sheeping of my Quaraezha points, yet no one acting on them. This looks like scum positioning.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

CalignoBot wrote:

I'm really not liking all the sheeping of my Quaraezha points, yet no one acting on them. This looks like scum positioning.
reason for that is that we are atm discussing if we no lynch or if we lynch someone.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
We've wasted half of the game day debating this with no conclusion.

It's time to actually do something. Either vote for people you think are scummy or vote no lynch. There's no town motivation at all in doing nothing but debating this, especially at this point.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
Vote: No Lynch

I know you will give me even more scumcred for that, but I honestly don't see anyone else who is lynchworthy at this point.

Mod: votecount and remaining time, please.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Vote: Tanzklaue

Back to my previous suspect. Unvoted because thought nolynch would be a better idea, but changed my mind. Also him being 'very sure' of me being Town might be a play to get me off his back (at least I felt it this way).
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
or it might mean that I am pretty sure that you are town.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I would btw. vote myself too if I weren't I. I know I am town, but I played so horrendously bad up until now that there isn't much reason not to do it.

the claim was really dumb, although it happened because I woke up from a rough night, and my defense wasn't the best either. noone should give too much on me being a mystery role, though I still believe that mystery is better than secret.

however, I still think NL is a better alternative. because I am town, and me, yadda yadda. there is no way to tell who is scum at this point, and lynching a bad townie won't give you any information. in the end, who can blame anyone on the waggon for voting someone who basically begged to be lynched? there isn't much you would get with a lynch on me. I have nothing against you lynching me, like I said, I basically caused the trouble myself, but lynching me won't help town one bit.

I also still have tsukasa under suspicion, and caligno also changed my read on him. tsukasa hung up on a relative minor slip, and it seemed more like he wanted to turn his RV into a quick townie-lynch. caligno on the other hand pressures quara heavily, downright saying that he is scum. while his points make sense to me, I don't really think that quara and tsukasa are both scum. they act too differently from each other and too independently to be both scum. caligno also pressures me, which just rubs me the wrong way, since noone else but tsukasa (and fart, who I think is town) really cares all too much about my slip and the suspicion against me. on the contrary, other people questioned tsukasas action, and his vote on rantai for, again, not really anything, and his towncredgiving to anyone who just votes someone is, for me, scummy. so my question is: why would you try to jump on/build a wagon with someone who has questionable views and arguments and one other, though more town, guy?
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
I don't know what slip you're talking about. I'm pretty sure I haven't divulged anything about why I think you're scum yet.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
the claimslip. it's not a scumslip, since I needed to be scum to scumslip, but it's a slip nonetheless. and it also was pretty dumb.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Oh.

That's alignment-neutral.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

CalignoBot wrote:

Oh.

That's alignment-neutral.
what's alignment neutral?
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
The claim.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

CalignoBot wrote:

The claim.
then tsukasa should read for you as scum I suppose? since he attacked the claim directly?

you talked about pinging a secret scumread, and whether pinging means attacking or defending, you mean either fart or tsukasa. I didn't utter any read about anyone else (except you, but why should you scumread yourself?)

@BRBP: I try to fix the mess my 13 o'clock self left here.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki

Tanzklaue wrote:

CalignoBot wrote:

The claim.
you talked about pinging a secret scumread, and whether pinging means attacking or defending, you mean either fart or tsukasa. I didn't utter any read about anyone else (except you, but why should you scumread yourself?)
I don't understand what this means. All pinging meant in that post was basically committing.

Saying that people who attack something that's town or neutral are scum is fallacious. It's not that black and white.

(I have a null read on Tsukasa)
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I already explained why I think tsukasa is scum.

I honestly didn't know what you meant with that pinging stuff, I'm not horrendous at english, but not that fluent at it either.

like I said, if you think I am scum, I can't blame you, I messed up already. I am town, but I don't think there is that much that I can say to defend myself. I don't think that you can get any useful read from a waggon on me, I already explained why.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
sorry I haven't been posting I've been setting up the Touhou mafia
brb reading the whole thread again
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
in the meantime unvote cause I just saw I still have NL voted rofl
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
wait what the hell am I even saying, I already set it up obv, I'm mostly just too tired to do anything right now cause it's 2:21 PM and I've been up since 8:30 PM yesterday

anyway, cut to the chase
after thinking about it NL might not be such a good idea cause there might not even be a vig/PGO or they both might kill someone. also seems it would delay information, it'd be better to get the game moving just so new stuff can happen
okay I swear I saw a post by RB saying that he was for NL and then I saw a post saying that he didn't think NL was a good idea. also seems RB isn't posting quite as much as the others. also Qua was all for NL then said something like "scumhunting should be enough for us to lynch mafia" which I'm not even sure how that could work together..
Tsukasa seems to be actually doing stuff so he's town for me. Caligno seems to be doing stuff too, I think Rantai is town for reasons, and imo fartownik is leaning town for me due to gut feeling. also it's reasonable to think that Tanz just screwed up or wasn't paying attention or was tired etc.
we've spent all this time just arguing over NL or not NL, we need to do something
vote: RB see above for the idea, also it's my gut feeling. if anyone sees something wrong with my analysis let me know plz cause I probably messed something up
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