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New ranking/modding system development

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ryza
679 posts
Joined October 2011
ryza
I think a lot of people here are missing the point:

This queue is designed to help mappers get maps ranked. If modders are willing to participate, they have an easier time obtaining certain privileges.

If you decide not to participate, you are not hurt in any way. However, if you obtained the same privileges by not participating, then it would defeat the whole purpose of the queue, leaving the situation the same as it is currently.
Last edited by ryza , edited 1 time in total.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

GladiOol wrote:

Zarerion wrote:

Exactly. If such a system exists, it should not favor the "NC here" modders
Implying new combo modding isn't important ... ?
No, but a good modder should not only focus on that, but also analyze the rhythm, the flow, readbility, spacing, etc.
I don't consider a pure NC modder to be qualified to nominate maps any more than modders who actually check the whole map.
Also what Silynn said.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat

Silynn wrote:

I think a lot of people here are missing the point:

This queue is designed to help mappers get maps ranked. If modders are willing to participate, they have an easier time obtaining certain privileges.

If you decide not to participate, you are not hurt in any way. However, if you obtained the same privileges by not participating, then it would defeat the whole purpose of the queue, leaving the situation the same as it is currently.
50+: Ability to nominate map for qualification.
100+: Ability to upvote helpful mod posts on any map

If by not participating in the queue and you mod elsewhere and some way or another, you are unable to get a score high enough for some abilities such as these, isn't it hurtful? If the same number of mods you do elsewhere is equal to that if you mod in the queue.
Luna
2,355 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna

Zarerion wrote:

I don't consider a pure NC modder to be qualified to nominate maps any more than modders who actually check the whole map.
You do realize that if a map they nominated is deemed subpar for ranking, they'll lose a shitton of points? People nominating maps with no idea of what they are actually doing are gonna be weeded out in due time.
ryza
679 posts
Joined October 2011
ryza

neonat wrote:

If by not participating in the queue and you mod elsewhere and some way or another, you are unable to get a score high enough for some abilities such as these, isn't it hurtful? If the same number of mods you do elsewhere is equal to that if you mod in the queue.
If you aren't helping the community, why do you deserve those privileges?

You have to put in effort to get something back. If you do proper modding through the queue, it does not take very much to get to the point requirement for nominations and you can mod whatever you like after.

If you want to mod whatever you like, then you can still obtain those privileges, just at a much slower pace.

There has to be some incentive for people to mod properly through this queue, otherwise it will be pointless.

Remember: this design is not based around modders, but mappers. It is, I think, a good start to addressing the current problems and walls most people run into in their attempts to rank maps.
Deni
Deni
Sounds pretty interesting so far! I'm looking forward to it!
Last edited by Deni , edited 1 time in total.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Please take in mind that BATs will still be able to penalize bad mod posts, and considering there will be a limit on the number of qualified maps and the maps dont get ranked by a BAT saying yes, but more like some time passing without a BAT saying no, all maps and their threads will have a chance to be reviewed by every team member.
Cygnus
1,517 posts
Joined December 2011
Cygnus
This idea is awesome! :D

Oh, and I'm in the modder ranking. O.O <3
Arnold0
1,675 posts
Joined February 2012
Arnold0
I don't think this will realy help mappers. If I understand correctly, you have to wait a long time without updating and without mods for the map to go up in the queue. Now imagine that it takes near 1 month to go to the top of the queue. When 1 month lasted since your last update a modder is assigned by the queue to your map. You apply the mod and the map go back in the bottom of the queue. So you wasted 1 month for getting only a single mod ? And dont say about actual "modding queues" when this will come, most modders may chose to use it to gain the nominating ability faster, letting mappers alone.

I also have a question : What will append to "low skilled modders" ? Imagine you want to mod a map. Actualy you download the map, and try to mod it. If you can't mod it because you find no issues with it you just download another one and try again. With this system, if the assignied map is too good for you, you must mod?? Then you'll post useless things or simply say "I'm sorry this map is too good for my modding level" in map thread ? Also what will append if a guy is not confident into his modding skill and have the ability to nominate a map? Must he nominate if he fond nothing ?
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower
Old mappers: Haha I love this new system you see I have many stars I just need to spam shoot my map then hundreds of modders come to mod my map

New mappers: Where can I find the modders? Why do they refuse my in-game/pm/facebook/qq/any-other-approaches mod request?

Lazy modders: hahaha I love this system I only need to spam "1 grid up" and I can get bunches of EXP, and I can vote maps and unvote maps as I wish

Serious modders: what I have to mod songs and maps I don't like? goodbye

EDIT: Just want to say, mod from queue and non-queue should have same EXP. More EXP does not inspire better mods. The queue and random mod session should just be a way to help modders find potential modding-worth maps. Also, skipping a map should not have such a huge penalty. I think -2, even -1 is good enough as a penalty.
Last edited by Flower , edited 1 time in total.
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

Flower wrote:

Old mappers: Haha I love this new system you see I have many stars I just need to spam shoot my map then hundreds of modders come to mod my map It's been already said, that star system will be phased out.

New mappers: Where can I find the modders? Why do they refuse my in-game/pm/facebook/qq/any-other-approaches mod request? You don't need to look for modders, modders will come to you

Lazy modders: hahaha I love this system I only need to spam "1 grid up" and I can get bunches of EXP, and I can vote maps and unvote maps as I wish You can downvote those modders.

Serious modders: what I have to mod songs and maps I don't like? goodbye You're not here to mod the songs you like, but to help people.
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

Marcin wrote:

It's been already said, that star system will be phased out. OK then

You don't need to look for modders, modders will come to you No, seriously. Many months after you find you get approximately mod every month just because demand exceeds supply

You can downvote those modders. Don't joke me bro. It's nearly impossible to track a modder. Do you volunteer to do this?

You're not here to mod the songs you like, but to help people. No bro, NO. Many, many modders mod a map because they hope the map can be ranked. If a modder don't like the map, is it still their compulsion to mod it?
ryza
679 posts
Joined October 2011
ryza

Flower wrote:

No bro, NO. Many, many modders mod a map because they hope the map can be ranked. If a modder don't like the map, is it still their compulsion to mod it?
If you want to mod maps you like, go ahead and do that.

That is not the purpose of the new modding queue system. If you don't want to mod within this system, you don't have to.

The system is not the only way to actively participate in the modding and ranking of beatmaps. It is an attempt at fixing many of the problems mappers face when attempting to rank maps. Not everyone has limitless connections, or the free time to do 10 M4Ms, or wait for a BAT queue to open.

Please realize that it is not compulsory, but you can help people and receive benefits by participating.
Kodora
Kodora

Marcin wrote:

You can downvote those modders.
And? +10 still bigger than downvotes. Lazy modders can mod thousand maps from queue and reseive super high priority. Who the hell will search specially bad mods in thousands threads?. It is just wasting the time.

Marcin wrote:

You're not here to mod the songs you like, but to help people.
If you doing job what you dont like it will affect the quality, remember it. And this related not only with osu.

Anyway, i still thinking that this queue is too nazi. I suggest let modders choose at least 4 high-priority maps before skipping because noone really will click those button. Quality of mods is most important as for me.
kisata
521 posts
Joined September 2012
kisata
just because you don't like a map/song doesn't mean you still can't give a constructive mod (you just have to put more effort into it)

and as countless other people have said, you can still mod the maps you want
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

Silynn wrote:

Flower wrote:

No bro, NO. Many, many modders mod a map because they hope the map can be ranked. If a modder don't like the map, is it still their compulsion to mod it?
If you want to mod maps you like, go ahead and do that.

That is not the purpose of the new modding queue system. If you don't want to mod within this system, you don't have to.

Please realize that it is not compulsory, but you can help people and receive benefits by participating.
Almost totally agree with you, but the systems will distract modders only receiving mods from forum queue, pm request, etc. That's why I suggest reducing the difference from queue and non-queue mods.

For example, we can adjust to:
non-queue mods
  1. 2 points for first post
  2. 0.6 points for other posts

apaffy wrote:

just because you don't like a map/song doesn't mean you still can't give a constructive mod (you just have to put more effort into it)

and as countless other people have said, you can still mod the maps you want
Yes, we can. However when we find a map with no unrankable issue, and is really ready for rank, but the general mapping attitude is not satisfyting, if it get ranked, the player rate can be low. I think if you can't avoid modding the map, you may just say "remap please because the map is not satisfying", which may reduce your modder rating.
Last edited by Flower , edited 1 time in total.
Deni
Deni

Silynn wrote:

Please realize that it is not compulsory, but you can help people and receive benefits by participating.
If you mod the maps you want to mod, you still help people the same. I think it's pretty strange that you will get less "points" for modding an other map.
Kodora
Kodora

apaffy wrote:

just because you don't like a map/song doesn't mean you still can't give a constructive mod (you just have to put more effort into it)
Thats how it will work. As for me, it is a bad quality mod.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
You don't need to actively search or bad modders; just poke them when you see them (either in your own map thread, or when you're modding a map). If everyone does this, they'll be found.
ryza
679 posts
Joined October 2011
ryza

Deni wrote:

If you mod the maps you want to mod, you still help people the same. I think it's pretty strange that you will get less "points" for modding an other map.
The major flaw with the current system is the fact that a large portion of people pick and choose which maps they want to mod, leaving a lot of maps unmodded for ages, and eventually graved.

If there were no benefits to modding a random map, then why would the new system have any effect on the situation?
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

CXu wrote:

You don't need to actively search or bad modders; just poke them when you see them (either in your own map thread, or when you're modding a map). If everyone does this, they'll be found.
The system has a shortage. Some people may freely poke the modders having critical mods which is actually useful. Also people may frame-up innocent modders using this system. BAT may be responsible making a recheck on bad-modder-report, but it takes a lot of work, and still not quite efficient.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I love how you guys completely ignored my post.



That is % off your experience, i am pretty sure BATs will have enough time to check at least the daily nominated maps and their threads, and every single BAT will have time to go through a map and it's thread, before it becomes ranked.
Kodora
Kodora
Second thing: as for me modding points from queue maps should be redused to as least +5, it looks super unbalanced for now, people will mod only maps from queue instead others. All mappers should have chance i think.
kisata
521 posts
Joined September 2012
kisata

Sakura wrote:

I love how you guys completely ignored my post.



That is % off your experience, i am pretty sure BATs will have enough time to check at least the daily nominated maps and their threads, and every single BAT will have time to go through a map and it's thread, before it becomes ranked.
Wow, I didn't even notice that. 30% total is a bit high.
ryza
679 posts
Joined October 2011
ryza

Flower wrote:

The system has a shortage. Some people may freely poke the modders having critical mods which is actually useful. Also people may frame-up innocent modders using this system. BAT may be responsible making a recheck on bad-modder-report, but it takes a lot of work, and still not quite efficient.
If any modder feels they have been wrongly downvoted, I assume they may contact any one of the staff members and have it sorted out within minutes.

Seems efficient to me.

Kodora wrote:

Second thing: as for me modding points from queue maps should be redused to as least +5, it looks super unbalanced for now, people will mod only maps from queue instead others. All mappers should have chance i think.
The queue is what gives the mappers their chance, not the other way around.
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,535 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele
I personnally think it will just be messed up.

I prefer how it is right now..
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

Sakura wrote:

I love how you guys completely ignored my post.



That is % off your experience, i am pretty sure BATs will have enough time to check at least the daily nominated maps and their threads, and every single BAT will have time to go through a map and it's thread, before it becomes ranked.
What does that do?

The first one: qualified modders will not be courageous nominating maps that does not violate the criteria but is controversial in certain patterns. also, this discourages people from making creative maps.

The second one: what if the modder just passes by a map and the mapper is new and accidentally gives the modder a kudosu?
Tshemmp
1,405 posts
Joined June 2011
Tshemmp
I like how the modding/ranking process becomes a bit organized~ (and less relationship based)
big improvement imo
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
For the 2nd one, i think the mapper should have an "undo" button in case they misclicked.
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

Sakura wrote:

For the 2nd one, i think the mapper should have an "undo" button in case they misclicked.
Yes that works often, but mostly the mapper does not know which posts should be given kudosu. Further more, which one should be given penalty? I think in most cases the "modder" does not make any fault. The BAT should be authorised to decide whether they will give the penalty and who will they give.
Kodora
Kodora
Also, what if mapper give kudosu by mistake? -30% looks too much. I think mapper should have button to denied personally modding points on his own map if he give it by mistake.
Or those system can be revorked as usual kd denied - people just will lost poits what they reseived by unfair way.
Cygnus
1,517 posts
Joined December 2011
Cygnus
I somehow do not agree with the mapper not being able to update after moving to pending maps though. :/
Kodora
Kodora

Philippines wrote:

I somehow do not agree with the mapper not being able to update after moving to pending maps though. :/
+1, it looks kinda weird.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Good points, I agree there should be an option to penalize and an option to just reset, tho which one is used should be left at the judgement of the BAT, mapper can also have an undo button just in case they misclick or something.
Kodora
Kodora
It can be used like "first unfair points - just denied, second - just denied, third - denied + penalize".
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]
Nice, this means that if I pm someone to mod my map or even do m4m they will probably reject because my map won't give many points \:D/
Nice nice, I hope there will be the good and serious modders who will keep modding on their accord
At least they still have the option the follow or not the queue
The only thing I ask: don't force people to use this unless you want the real modders/mappers/people who give a shit about this game to leave.

Good luck, farming modders.

Btw, what if I downvote someone's mod just because I don't like them? I hope someone will punish me for doing this, at least.
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34
I don't know what to think of this system really.
I think it is good that the current system will be changed but on the other hand I am way to used to it... I guess.
I don't really care if a map that I mod gets ranked or not so I won't be one of those who nominate anything (if I understood it correctly ^^)

I guess I am not sure about it since I only mod for 2 reasons:
Helping others
getting kudosu

dunno what will happen ^^ So I just let it come :>
zozozofun
zozozofun
Long ago, the happy players of osu! lived together in harmony, then, everything changed when peppy came back.
Last edited by zozozofun , edited 1 time in total.
Kodora
Kodora

[Luanny] wrote:

Nice, this means that if I pm someone to mod my map or even do m4m they will probably reject because my map won't give many points \:D/
This is one of main problems in those update

[Luanny] wrote:

Btw, what if I downvote someone's mod just because I don't like them? I hope someone will punish me for doing this, at least.
Why that was not mentiored before? As far as i know, only BATs allowed to denied unfair points - modders can only report

oh hi Luanny o.o
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

zozozofun wrote:

Long ago, the happy players of osu! lived together in harmony, then, everything changed when peppy came back.
WHO'S AFRAID OF THE BIG PEPPY

angelfix wrote:

@flower. stop useless arguing, nothing will be changed finally, so let us see what hell will happen
I just argue to see if I can make some minor suggestions so that the new system is more friendly. I'm not totally against the new system, though I will have less chance of gaoji'ing.
Lally
3,177 posts
Joined December 2011
Lally
Hmm is a nice idea,but i think many modders like me prefer to mod by they own rule, because in the list of modding queue i saw just high star rating maps, no maps already submitted and so on,i don't think is right to those mappers,all maps need a help even new mappers,hope this sistem can be improved because is a nice idea C:
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
*reads thread* Man, it's like I'm reliving the announcement of the SP system and kudosu all over again! :)
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower

angelfix wrote:

i am willing to osu! recommend some maps, but use it to make the most important part of ranking system is crazy, different from PP system, game is a kind of sport, so ranking is useful, but mapping is a kind of art, ranking is just like shit.
Yep, that's it. High skipping penalty makes this queue compulsory. Just reducing the skipping penalty makes a big improvement.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

angelfix wrote:

the most unacceptable things is choose maps by a machine or we called it system, something never can be done by computer, like find a music we love, music radio always can not replace CDs. Today's system is not the best, but this one is the wrost.
But no one will force you to mod from queue. You can mod on your own and choose whatever you like. :?
Kodora
Kodora

Sieg wrote:

But no one will force you to mod from queue. You can mod on your own and choose whatever you like. :?
main problem is queue maps have VERY big priority abuse. it is an indirect forcing.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Sieg wrote:

angelfix wrote:

the most unacceptable things is choose maps by a machine or we called it system, something never can be done by computer, like find a music we love, music radio always can not replace CDs. Today's system is not the best, but this one is the wrost.
But no one will force you to mod from queue. You can mod on your own and choose whatever you like. :?
Of course, it'll be very hard to become someone who can nominate maps if you do that.

...But that's the entire damn point. The point is that only people who are willing to mod all maps and not just maps they like are the ones who get privileges like being able to nominate maps. If you don't care about those privileges, however, feel free to mod whatever the hell you want. Just don't expect to get significant rewards for it.

EDIT:

main problem is queue maps have VERY big priority abuse. it is an indirect forcing.
You lose 50 SP whenever your map gets modded. I think that'll sort itself out over time.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Ekaru wrote:

...But that's the entire damn point. The point is that only people who are willing to mod all maps and not just maps they like are the ones who get privileges like being able to nominate maps. If you don't care about those privileges, however, feel free to mod whatever the hell you want. Just don't expect to get significant rewards for it.
Exactly. I don't get why most of people miss that.
If you want nominate and work on system just use that system. If you don't... well your mods still helpful in improving map quality and if I get this correctly non-queue mod don't remove map priority position in queue.
Kodora
Kodora

Ekaru wrote:

...But that's the entire damn point. The point is that only people who are willing to mod all maps and not just maps they like are the ones who get privileges like being able to nominate maps. If you don't care about those privileges, however, feel free to mod whatever the hell you want. Just don't expect to get significant rewards for it.
Again. People is not a modding machines. It is depends to song and map. Did BATs mod every map what people send to them? Hell no! This is just unneeded forcing, again, it will affect quality of mods.

Imagine if BATs will have queue like this - osu! mapping will die. This must cant be forsed, directly or indirectly.

Ekaru wrote:

You lose 50 SP whenever your map gets modded. I think that'll sort itself out over time.
What? Really? It is just retarded. Not all mappers are good modders. This is again just ridicilous indirectly forcing.
Last edited by Kodora , edited 1 time in total.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu

angelfix wrote:

you always emphasize feel free to mod, you can ignore this system, so why close mod queue? why minus points if you jump the maps? why add it into ranking system? don't lie in a pretty way
Because since you are free to go on as you are doing currently if you don't like the system, anything that happens in the system DOES NOT MATTER to you AT ALL.

Apparently you want whatever cool stuff the system has to offer, but refuses to follow the rules set by the system. If that's the case, then tough luck.
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
Thread locked, posts deleted due to silly arguing and trolling.

Thanks for your feedback thusfar. I will develop the rest of the system and deploy it without further feedback, as this thread has fallen into an unrecoverable downwards spiral.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF

peppy wrote:

real-time modding system map #1 map #2 (currently in testing stages)
active for these two maps only. not yet linked to the rest of the system. please use these for real-world testing – as in mod them properly if you are going to post anything.
Bumping for further visibility. Feel free to mod one of these two maps if you want to experience the new system early.
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