Echo wrote:

Even if strager is innocent, the mafia wouldn't jump on since that'd be a huge scum tell.

Echo wrote:

Three things only.

0_o wrote:

EDIT: and if you think about it, his theory on strager's bandwagon (Echo, SFG, adam, nardi) does make some sense. Wouldn't you think a mafia member would jump at the chance to lynch the potential doctor? I think it's very likely that both of the mafia members are in that group.

I already answered this back here when SFG asked the same question.

Echo wrote:

And strager/derekku/bagel are talking about the game in IRC, which is against the rules (simple "posted" lines are ok, I guess, but entire convos are a big no-no. ALL proper conversation MUST be in this thread for all to see).

Echo wrote:

edit: I see Suburu has modified the rules slightly, but I still have no guarantee that that is all they talked about in IRC. Post all logs please preferably as an attachment.

Echo wrote:

And finally NO MORE PERCENTAGES they are completely irrelevant

Echo wrote:

If strager is mafia, then of course we won't have the mafia jumping on.

strager wrote:

Even if strager is innocent, the mafia wouldn't jump on since that'd be a huge scum tell.

0_o wrote:

Echo wrote:

If strager is mafia, then of course we won't have the mafia jumping on.

True, this only applies if you believe strager is innocent. And I do.

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Even if strager is innocent, the mafia wouldn't jump on since that'd be a huge scum tell.

Well in that case no one is gonna be lynched since anyone who delivers the final blow is gonna be considered mafia

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Even if strager is innocent, the mafia wouldn't jump on since that'd be a huge scum tell.

Well in that case no one is gonna be lynched since anyone who delivers the final blow is gonna be considered mafia

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Even if strager is innocent, the mafia wouldn't jump on since that'd be a huge scum tell.

Well in that case no one is gonna be lynched since anyone who delivers the final blow is gonna be considered mafia

Nope. It depends on the context; if the last person votes with a valid reason, then it's sweet.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

to other M2 players: this is the last day before we need to have a decision. if we do not decide, the mafia will get a free nightkill while we dither around not lynching people. Change your vote before time runs out~ (wow that sounded DOOM-y lol)

0_o wrote:

From what I remember looking through the first WW game, when adam and yoshikart were mafia, adam was on L-1 and yoshikart didn't say a thing. In fact, every post that he made was either a vote or a vote change, with little to no explaination. So don't think that being quiet means they are innocent; they are just as likely to be a wolf who is afraid of posting something suspicious.

0_o wrote:

That, and throwing someone on L-2 is a pretty effective way of getting them to speak up

Derekku Chan wrote:

0_o wrote:

That, and throwing someone on L-2 is a pretty effective way of getting them to speak up

nardi is on L-1 ;/

strager wrote:

Woah there.

Hasty.

I have noticed nardi in the "Users browsing the forum" at the bottom on several occasions and he hasn't posted. So here's what I think.

If he is a Townie, he's going a pretty horrible job at "blending in." He stands out as a lurker and doesn't even attempt to post anything meaningful.
If he is a Mafia, he's trying to sabotage the game by the same cause so Mafia loses. That's Pretty Gay (tm).

I really doubt a Mafia would sabotage his buddy like that so I'm leaning toward the possibility of him being a Townie.

Yes, I'm defending nardi, but it's not like he's here so he can to defend himself anyway. =\

EDIT: [strike] and added "to" to make sentence more understandable.

0_o wrote:

So.. you are saying that the mafia is incapable of coming up with a valid reason to lynch someone?

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

So.. you are saying that the mafia is incapable of coming up with a valid reason to lynch someone?

That is exactly what I'm saying. There should be no evidence in posts against townies, which means mafia won't be able to bring up a valid reason to lynch a townie.

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

Woah there.

Hasty.

I have noticed nardi in the "Users browsing the forum" at the bottom on several occasions and he hasn't posted. So here's what I think.

If he is a Townie, he's going a pretty horrible job at "blending in." He stands out as a lurker and doesn't even attempt to post anything meaningful.
If he is a Mafia, he's trying to sabotage the game by the same cause so Mafia loses. That's Pretty Gay (tm).

I really doubt a Mafia would sabotage his buddy like that so I'm leaning toward the possibility of him being a Townie.

Yes, I'm defending nardi, but it's not like he's here so he can to defend himself anyway. =\

EDIT: [strike] and added "to" to make sentence more understandable.

When you say "his buddy" who are you referring to? (nardi is "a Mafia" in that sentence, yes?)

strager/agreeing with 0_o's post wrote:

Indeed. Echo himself used my mistakes as evidence that I am a Mafia, which contradicts what he says here.

Echo wrote:

strager/agreeing with 0_o's post wrote:

Indeed. Echo himself used my mistakes as evidence that I am a Mafia, which contradicts what he says here.

Um lol? You are mafia. No contradiction whatsoever.

Echo wrote:

Until you do that, what I've said stands true.

Echo wrote:

I'll give you a hint, it's the bolded half sentence in the second unquoted paragraph.

Echo wrote:

Whereas I've conjured up a single sentence with enough evidence to send you to kingdom come, none of which you've satisfactorily defended against, you've brought none of my posts against me.

1. refute my 3 points in the linked post
2. attack me with my posts

strager wrote:

True until proven false is your word?

Echo wrote:

I would like you to do two things:

1. refute my 3 points in the linked post
2. attack me with my posts

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

jk

I hope not?

Echo wrote:

@derekku: then lynch strager today and me tomorrow. It's not like you can lynch two people on the same day. If we're both mafia, it won't make a difference. I don't mind dying, if it'll help townies win. It's a team game after all.

Echo wrote:

@strager: then tell me why anyone should be listening to you.

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

That means you are mafia? :<

I am not a Mafia.

0_o wrote:

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

So.. you are saying that the mafia is incapable of coming up with a valid reason to lynch someone?

That is exactly what I'm saying. There should be no evidence in posts against townies, which means mafia won't be able to bring up a valid reason to lynch a townie.

Why not? Humans come up with "evidence" against other humans to lynch them, the only difference is that the mafia actually knows that they are lynching a human.

Echo wrote:

You're refusing to defend yourself against my evidence, and you're refusing to bring any evidence against me, yet you claim you are townie and I am mafia?

I think the simple answer is that there is no evidence you can use to defend yourself, and there is no evidence you can bring against me. Which means you are mafia, and I am townie.

Echo wrote:

Townies will be able to convincingly bring evidence to show that the evidence used against them is misguided.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

You're refusing to defend yourself against my evidence, and you're refusing to bring any evidence against me, yet you claim you are townie and I am mafia?

I think the simple answer is that there is no evidence you can use to defend yourself, and there is no evidence you can bring against me. Which means you are mafia, and I am townie.

That doesn't explain this at all:

Echo wrote:

@strager: then tell me why anyone should be listening to you.

which is what I asked about.

You're saying even if I defend myself I shouldn't be believed, and even if I attack you I shouldn't be believed?

1. Assume what everyone is saying is true
2. Find evidence to show that a person is likely lying. From this point on assume everything he says is false.
3. That person defends himself.
4. Given that the person does so convincingly, assume from this point on everything he says is true. Otherwise, he is likely mafia and should be lynched.

Echo wrote:

Stop twisting my words.

Echo wrote:

I'm saying if you can't defend yourself, then there is no reason why anyone should believe what you say. If you can defend yourself, then that proves you're not mafia, and what you say holds legitimate value.

Echo wrote:

1. Assume what everyone is saying is true
2. Find evidence to show that a person is likely lying. From this point on assume everything he says is false.
3. That person defends himself.
4. Given that the person does so convincingly, assume from this point on everything he says is true. Otherwise, he is likely mafia and should be lynched.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

I'm saying if you can't defend yourself, then there is no reason why anyone should believe what you say. If you can defend yourself, then that proves you're not mafia, and what you say holds legitimate value.

I'm sure a Mafia can convincingly defend themself too, smart one.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

1. Assume what everyone is saying is true
2. Find evidence to show that a person is likely lying. From this point on assume everything he says is false.
3. That person defends himself.
4. Given that the person does so convincingly, assume from this point on everything he says is true. Otherwise, he is likely mafia and should be lynched.

And this logic has gotten you how far in Mafia games?

And this logic has gotten you how far in Mafia games?

nardi11011 wrote:

Echo wrote:

よろしくおねがいしま～す

QFT

like i know what it means

nardi11011 wrote:

Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on strager as he just seems to be acting too strange to me.

nardi11011 wrote:

Especially his very first slip-up doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of his posts, as I don't see why someone would rather risk dying the first night than lie about their role.

nardi11011 wrote:

Holy shit, 6 pages? I hate timezones. Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on strager as he just seems to be acting too strange to me. Especially his very first slip-up doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of his posts, as I don't see why someone would rather risk dying the first night than lie about their role. I don't see anyone else as overly suspicious, so I'm not changing my vote.

also,

Echo wrote:

よろしくおねがいしま～す

QFT

like i know what it means

BagelBob wrote:

0_o, who are you voting for right now? That last one was only 80% there.

0_o wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

0_o, who are you voting for right now? That last one was only 80% there.

I'm indifferent on whether we lynch nardi or adam, and nardi hasn't said anything that would convince me to change my vote, so for now, my vote stands.

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

That means you are mafia? :<

I am not a Mafia.

Funny, that's exactly what someone who is in the mafia would say

vote stra-

lol

0_o wrote:

EDIT: and if you think about it, his theory on strager's bandwagon (Echo, SFG, adam, nardi) does make some sense. Wouldn't you think a mafia member would jump at the chance to lynch the potential doctor? I think it's very likely that both of the mafia members are in that group.

0_o wrote:

That vote for you was a joke, I obviously wouldn't defend you this whole time, then vote for you because you said you weren't mafia

And I'm voting for him because as I've already said

0_o wrote:

EDIT: and if you think about it, his theory on strager's bandwagon (Echo, SFG, adam, nardi) does make some sense. Wouldn't you think a mafia member would jump at the chance to lynch the potential doctor? I think it's very likely that both of the mafia members are in that group.

I'm not confident enough to vote Echo and I believe SFG is a townie. So I'm fine with either nardi or adam, and since nardi is already on L-2, then well, there you go. I'm not going to split the vote between 2 people who I think should be lynched.

BagelBob wrote:

Which actions/posts make you believe that Echo and SFG are townies?
They both voted for strager, just like nardi and adam, who you believe is the doctor.

strager wrote:

0_o, IMO voting because of the number of votes on one's head isn't a good idea for a Townie (only a Mafia because a Mafia knows if he's lynching a Townie or not). If you are split between nardi and adam you'll need another reason to vote for one or the other. If you stick to your vote for nardi solely to keep him at L-1 without another reason I'm more incline to believe you are a Mafia. (This is supported by you avoiding voting on Echo.)

BagelBob wrote:

Which actions/posts make you believe that Echo and SFG are townies?
They both voted for strager, just like nardi and adam, who you believe is the doctor.

0_o wrote:

1) I don't think he would quit if he was mafia

0_o wrote:

2) why would he lie if he is quitting?

strager wrote:

0_o, IMO voting because of the number of votes on one's head isn't a good idea for a Townie (only a Mafia because a Mafia knows if he's lynching a Townie or not). If you are split between nardi and adam you'll need another reason to vote for one or the other. If you stick to your vote for nardi solely to keep him at L-1 without another reason I'm more incline to believe you are a Mafia. (This is supported by you avoiding voting on Echo.)

0_o wrote:

First of all, he's at L-2 - Bagelbob retracted his vote

0_o wrote:

I'm not really split between them, I'm indifferent between them. I would be just as happy voting off adam as I would nardi. And since nardi is the more likely candidate right now, it would be pointless to vote for adam since that would just make it more difficult to lynch nardi, whom I believe is just as likely to be mafia as adam.
I hope that made sense?

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

Echo wrote:

Whereas I've conjured up a single sentence with enough evidence to send you to kingdom come, none of which you've satisfactorily defended against, you've brought none of my posts against me.

I would like you to do two things:

1. refute my 3 points in the linked post
2. attack me with my posts

Well you're not getting it.

Echo wrote:

You're trying to bring suspicion onto someone who is obviously townie. Now why would you do that?

strager wrote:

SFG's first vote on me was just a bandwagon vote it seems, because I was the more suspicious.
SFG's second vote on me was a misunderstanding: viewtopic.php?p=141154#p141154

Echo wrote:

Can someone explain to me why we just jumped to voting for nardi when strager has been so suspicious and refusing to defend himself?

Derekku Chan wrote:

But as one of you said: If a townie gets lynched that didn't contribute in the first place, it wouldn't even be a loss. :<

Echo wrote:

I just fear I won't be around to lynch a mafia :X

0_o wrote:

Echo is coming out very strongly this game, and while he does have that level of suspicion, he can also be very useful if he is pro-town. I don't want to lynch him yet because the potential of Echo being a strong asset for the town is greater than my suspicion that he is mafia.

0_o wrote:

Now adam and nardi on the other hand, haven't been contributing a whole lot to the game, so as opposed to the case with Echo, there isn't much risk in lynching them.

0_o wrote:

There are a few more specific reasons that I don't want to lynch Echo yet, but I can't say them here because I don't want these reasons to be visible to the mafia.

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

Echo is coming out very strongly this game, and while he does have that level of suspicion, he can also be very useful if he is pro-town. I don't want to lynch him yet because the potential of Echo being a strong asset for the town is greater than my suspicion that he is mafia.

That reasoning goes both ways really. That is, he could be a major asset to the Mafia.
That's true, but again I have other reasons for keeping him around that I can't let the mafia be aware of.

0_o wrote:

Now adam and nardi on the other hand, haven't been contributing a whole lot to the game, so as opposed to the case with Echo, there isn't much risk in lynching them.

So there isn't much rick in lynching me either?
If you read my next sentence you would see..

0_o wrote:

If it turns out they aren't mafia, it wouldn't be as much of a loss to the town as Echo and strager would if they were pro-town.

You are risky to lynch because of the possibility you are the doctor.

0_o wrote:

There are a few more specific reasons that I don't want to lynch Echo yet, but I can't say them here because I don't want these reasons to be visible to the mafia.

Because you know things we don't I'm more inclined to think you are a Mafia.
Unless you discovered these reasons through real reasoning, of course.
I don't have evidence per se, but theories of how the mafia will behave (not on how they are behaving now). I obviously can't openly discuss these theories, because the mafia of course will see them and act accordingly.

0_o wrote:

0_o wrote:

Now adam and nardi on the other hand, haven't been contributing a whole lot to the game, so as opposed to the case with Echo, there isn't much risk in lynching them.

So there isn't much rick in lynching me either?
If you read my next sentence you would see..

0_o wrote:

If it turns out they aren't mafia, it wouldn't be as much of a loss to the town as Echo and strager would if they were pro-town.

You are risky to lynch because of the possibility you are the doctor.

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

0_o wrote:

Now adam and nardi on the other hand, haven't been contributing a whole lot to the game, so as opposed to the case with Echo, there isn't much risk in lynching them.

So there isn't much rick in lynching me either?
If you read my next sentence you would see..

0_o wrote:

If it turns out they aren't mafia, it wouldn't be as much of a loss to the town as Echo and strager would if they were pro-town.

You are risky to lynch because of the possibility you are the doctor.

I see that, but it wasn't in that one sentence (only Echo was) so I got a bit suspicious...

Echo wrote:

I think lynching nardi is a mistake.

Echo wrote:

I'm inclined to think 0_o