the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.

I look at this rule from this perspective:
The rule is designed to make sure everyone knows how hard a difficulty is with respect to other beatmaps based on the name alone. Unless we standardize names and completely remove custom names, this is impossible to achieve.
When playing, the name of the difficulty has no effect on the player whatsoever. This is a rule that exists entirely outside actual gameplay. It is entirely unimportant, which is why a lot of people choose to ignore being helpful, since it really doesn't matter. If you want, think of it like nazi modding, except that nazi modding actually has a gameplay purpose.

We can't really stop it because the line is too vague, and the option exists. we also have BATs who don't care either, making the situation much harder. In the case of a deadlock, it's better to keep the status quo than to change things. It's certainly good practice to use logical difficulty names, but trying to force them is ridiculous.

ziin wrote:

the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.

I look at this rule from this perspective:
The rule is designed to make sure everyone knows how hard a difficulty is with respect to other beatmaps based on the name alone. Unless we standardize names and completely remove custom names, this is impossible to achieve.
When playing, the name of the difficulty has no effect on the player whatsoever. This is a rule that exists entirely outside actual gameplay. It is entirely unimportant, which is why a lot of people choose to ignore being helpful, since it really doesn't matter. If you want, think of it like nazi modding, except that nazi modding actually has a gameplay purpose.

We can't really stop it because the line is too vague, and the option exists. we also have BATs who don't care either, making the situation much harder. In the case of a deadlock, it's better to keep the status quo than to change things. It's certainly good practice to use logical difficulty names, but trying to force them is ridiculous.

Post of the year.

Natteke wrote:

Post of the year.

+1

Crazy things down here
How about making the mapper choosing the Star Rating of the diff?
1/2 = Beginner
1 = Easy
2 = Normal
3 = Hard
4 = Insane
5 = Extra
6 = Improbable ( fur Approved )

You'll remove the problems of the star rating... and make more the diff have a personal name and be without problems

ziin wrote:

the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.

Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?

Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?

Sakura Hana wrote:

ziin wrote:

the star system exists for a reason folks. It may not be accurate, but there is no method of ranking difficulty that is very accurate, unless we go on the ELO scale.

Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?

Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?

Just play it once? Is it really that hard? maybe you want mappers to put description of every jump and stream in the map?

Why not just color code it? Have green going down to red or something. You can keep the diff names and it'd be easier to see in multiplayer when you are browsing rooms.

I haven't seen the first game other than osu! that doesn't use some regulated naming for difficulties, this is the first game in which you can have difficulty selection between Easy, Astonishing and Cake.
We are not talking about gameplay here, we are talking about the fact that this is a game, not paint.net

idk I've never had a big issues with names

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Crazy things down here
How about making the mapper choosing the Star Rating of the diff?
1/2 = Beginner
1 = Easy
2 = Normal
3 = Hard
4 = Insane
5 = Extra
6 = Improbable ( fur Approved )

You'll remove the problems of the star rating... and make more the diff have a personal name and be without problems

reproposing

I doubt mappers will ever be able to manually set the star rating by themselves.

I wish I'd have seen this earlier. - I hope I don't repeat someone.

I'm for Sakura Hanas opinion, also because such diff names sometimes dosen't look like nice at all and makes just... yes really no sense and in osu! the Taiko diff's are mainly Onis, that's true. But I remember when I've begun with this game, I tryed to find muzukashiis, but it was allready hard enough to find them, because some of those diffs got another name, like Sakura Hana said: ,,Taiko".

It's not specific enough and gives the mapset not a smooth sight. When people want to search for an Insane, they don't type in "lolipop", they rather type in ,,Insane", that's what makes diff finding so hard. Nattekes point is not bad at all, people can test it, yes, but they don't remember every diff.. So we can say testing <-//-> searching/finding are two different things in different time periodes.

But there are also two other cases you need to concider about:

1. What would you say about maps, which diff names are not the normal one, but shows or indicate it with there names?
There was a map which diffs were called ,,yeah", ,,yeah yeah" and ,,yeah yeah yeah". Probably easy to figure out what is hard and what is easy.
- But the searching makes it hard again.

2. What are you going to do about some mapper diff's name? Should this be allowed?
- Personally I would say that this should be some exeption, since I don't see why the diff names should be restricted so hard. So or so many mappers are known with there own diff-names.
So we could put two opinions into one solution. One opinion of calling the diff's just Easy, Normal, Hard, Insane, etc.. and one opinion calling the diff's how the mappers want.

So my mapset would be for example like this:
Opinion of using normal diff names
- Normal
- Hard
- Insane
- Taiko Muzukashii
- Taiko Oni
Opinion of using custom diff names
- Taikosaki

So Odarils opinion would fit good:

Odaril wrote:

Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, [...]

I will mentione this in the Taiko Rule Thread, too.

Sakura Hana wrote:

I doubt mappers will ever be able to manually set the star rating by themselves.

Taiko mappers do.

"Tree" would be an okay difficulty name if the difficulties went -

Seed
Sapling
Plant
Bush
Tree

;D

I'd prefer the star rating in a numerical form listed before the difficulty name. If star rating is not accurate, it is a bug and should be fixed. If the bug can't be fixed, a bat supported manual override would be acceptable, especially to fix the silly rhythm-complexity-is-really-hard part of the star rating.

"Loli, Jailbait, Legal, MILF" is still confusing. Which one is the hardest difficulty? The one that gets you put in prison and makes you register as a sex offender? Or is it the cougar? How hard is it compared to one of La Cataline's Hard difficulties (which are notoriously more difficult than, say, ykcarrot's insanes)?

I'll say it again--unless we force specific difficulty names, nothing will be solved. On top of that, we can't retroactively change all the previous maps.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?

Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?

ummm play the damn map? if you fail, doesn't matter, if you pass, good job it's not too hard for you.

YodaSnipe wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

Go into a mutli room, find a difficulty called Cake which is 5 stars, i know i can play many Insanes but not the super effing Hard ones, both are usually 5 stars, how will i know if it's too hard for me or not?

Better yet, i go into a multi room find a diff called "Taiko" which is 5 stars, how can i know if it's an oni or a muzukashii?

ummm play the damn map? if you fail, doesn't matter, if you pass, good job it's not too hard for you.

That isn't the point...

The point is, she was in multi. so it doesn't really matter at all. Unless she's one of those idiots who won't play maps too hard for her. /lame

why bother then? there are way worse things we could be discussing than diff names

ztrot wrote:

why bother then? there are way worse things we could be discussing than diff names

It's true, why bother ?

Sakura Hana wrote:

I doubt mappers will ever be able to manually set the star rating by themselves.

Well, proposing on setting the difficulty names and make the star rating linked to the difficulty name, more than this. So you can use a personal name, and set the star rating to the difficulty. (P.s. So mappers were never able to know if a difficulty was Normal, Hard or so, as you're saying)

truth be told i don't really think this is very important, diff names don't really matter much, seeing people get creative is also fun sometimes

I'm thinking about "Super Meat Boy!" beatmaps in their diff names.

Like:

Easy = The Forest
Normal = The Hospital
Hard = The Salt Factory
Hard/Insane = The Hell
InsanExtra = The Rapture
Extra = Dr. Fetus.


btw, stars can lie about diff of the beatmap, diff names can't.

An example

YodaSnipe wrote:

The point is, she was in multi. so it doesn't really matter at all. Unless she's one of those idiots who won't play maps too hard for her. /lame

Believe it or not, the majority of the human populace does not enjoy doing things that are so hard for them that they honestly do not stand a chance.

Although i was just making a suposition, that never happened to me and i do enjoy challenges, the suposition was mostly to tell them that diff names do matter during multiplayer games.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Although i was just making a suposition, that never happened to me and i do enjoy challenges, the suposition was mostly to tell them that diff names do matter during multiplayer games.

True.

I really enjoy challenges, but only when I know what kind of challenge I have.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Although i was just making a suposition, that never happened to me and i do enjoy challenges, the suposition was mostly to tell them that diff names do matter during multiplayer games.

no they don't

Here's the solution I propose: forget altogether the part about showing the difficulty, but keep the part about the mapper's name as a rule. It would go like this:

Guest difficulties must always name their mapper or any characteristic name they use. This is to avoid confusion in mapsets in regards to map accountability.

I am thinking for example of NatsumeRin who names his difficulties "Rin", or Alace who names them "Alazy", or samiljul's "31's Taiko"... This would still be allowed as it makes sense and mappers are recognized under these names.

Wait: proposing it as a Rule, or as a Guideline?

That's fine as a rule, but i also think that difficulties should always be named in a measurable way, or something that has a start and an end (like the Seed > Sappling > Tree that someone mentioned) as long as the player doesn't need prior knowledge of the source to know which diff is which.
The reason difficulty names can be customized is for Guest mappers' names and for songs that come from other sources with a different difficulty naming (like DDR's Light, Standard, Heavy, Challenge) to allow the mapper if they so want to use the difficulty naming of the game (difficulty naming not character naming, nor spell naming, nor level naming, etc).

Rule. It's supposed to be a rule at first and I think it's important enough to be one.

OMG, how a name can bother so much?

I can say: a difficulty name hasn't even bothered that much anyway...
If a Spread IS ordered, than you don't need nothing to make know the layer what's harder and what's not, Differently, when the star rating system make the spread bad ordered, than you can say the diff name do bother.

Seriously, this is dumb. Names were always a very nice freedom of "art" to me, and they should remain like this.

pdumb. Keep how it is there absolutely nothing wrong with it

Maddy wrote:

Seriously, this is dumb. Names were always a very nice freedom of "art" to me, and they should remain like this.

Since when did this stop being a game?

I do not agree with this decision,personally,i think this is a stupid rule,i mean,now you're even restricting us in difficulty names?No i do not like this thing,i always get amused at difficulty names and i wish to continue doing so,but its pointless to restrict names,if they want to check if a diff is too hard they can always try it first or auto it,there are so many ways or previewing,one of those is the star rating which actually gives an idea of the diffulty too.
Its a no from me,be it a petition or not,i personally do not approve this choice,this won't make any difference but i would like to get my opinion in here.Thanks
-AfroPriest

Sakura Hana wrote:

Since when did this stop being a game?

This question doesnt mean anything. You can keep adding rules but not stopping a game. What you're doing here is just ruining it

Why is no one actually reading the posts ? Let me rewrite it in bigger letters:

I propose to drop the part forcing the difficulty name to actually state the difficulty but to keep the one forcing the name of the guest mapper to appear. Or whatever name the guest mapper is used to going with.

That way you people can keep your custom funny difficulty names but this solves the issues caused by map accountability.

This kinda defeats the whole purpose of star rating you know.
I think changes like these are completely unnecessary.

EDIT: in other words, no need to fix what aint broke.

How does stating the name of a mapper defeat the purpose of star rating I don't get it

Odaril wrote:

How does stating the name of a mapper defeat the purpose of star rating I don't get it

He referred to the first section of "aborted" rules. You shouldn't even think about these.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Maddy wrote:

Seriously, this is dumb. Names were always a very nice freedom of "art" to me, and they should remain like this.

Since when did this stop being a game?

When people like you support things like no sb/skin/bg deletion

@YodaSnipe: Hmm excuse me? that's not relevant to the topic at hand, but if you want an answer sb/skin/bg form part of the mapper's map, diff names like cake, coffee and potato make no sense to me tho, but since that's what the community wants...

Difficulty names MUST make sense. That's all that's being asked from this rule and yet it's being made soo difficult to follow?

This isn't about forcing maps to use the "standard" difficulty names for the map set. This is about preventing confusion from improper naming of difficulties that have no correlation to each other. Left shouldn't mean right, and down shouldn't me up.

Also, to remind those going through the rule topics, STAY in topic and keep it CLEAN. I don't want to see another repeat like a few months ago.

Odaril wrote:

That way you people can keep your custom funny difficulty names but this solves the issues caused by map accountability.

what issue with map accountability? The mapper is clearly noted in the map description or the difficulty name.

whymeman wrote:

This is about preventing confusion from improper naming of difficulties that have no correlation to each other. Left shouldn't mean right, and down shouldn't me up.

This can and will be caught via modding. Any rule we make will be too vague and thus be a poor rule.

ziin wrote:

This can and will be caught via modding. Any rule we make will be too vague and thus be a poor rule.

Because i totally haven't seen maps with diff names Easy, Normal, Hard, Coffee before, and bubbled twice to boot

so why do guest diffs have to state the guest mapper's name? it is guest mapper's right to call it the way he wants it to be called as long as it's not breaking the other rules because he is the one who mapped it. why force them to do something that won't change anything for players?

Seriously, why are people desperate about such trivial things like diff names? Always the same people by the way
It's amazes me how arguments like "don't know what I'm going to play" are being passed. It will take no more than 5 seconds of your time to check what sort of difficulty that is, you can then happily stop playing that particular difficulty. On top of that, most of the times the star rating is pretty correct, in rare cases it messes up Insanes and Hards but that's about it.


Now you look more like a dictator, Sakura inb4 post deleted

ziin wrote:

Odaril wrote:

That way you people can keep your custom funny difficulty names but this solves the issues caused by map accountability.

what issue with map accountability? The mapper is clearly noted in the map description or the difficulty name.

Not all the time. But if either exists (either in the diff name, either in the main post), I'm fine with it.

senaya wrote:

why do guest diffs have to state the guest mapper's name?

It's a matter of accountability and credit for their work. As I said above, if the difficulty name doesn't include the mapper's name, I'll be happy if the main post says who mapped the diff. I still like a lot to know who mapped whatever difficulty I'm playing in-game, and since I play full-screen, I don't always (actually never) go to the listing page to check who mapped the difficulty I played.
I just thought it would be more convenient.

Also why are you all acting like the rule is already amended ? I just proposed it and asked for your thoughts, there's nothing set in stone in this rule for now, it's still open for discussion.

Also star rating isn't reliable BLAHBLAHBLAH I bet you're tired of this speech by now. Let's hope modders (not just MATs and BATs) will catch incorrect difficulty names.

Should I mark this rule nuked ? Seems like absolutely no one likes it.

All my 7 hands for nuking

Sakura Hana wrote:

Because i totally haven't seen maps with diff names Easy, Normal, Hard, Coffee before, and bubbled twice to boot

That is not a problem. It obviously wasn't a problem for the bubblers, the modders, or the author. Had the difficulty names been:
Monkey, Potato, ziin's Heart, Coffee, there is an obvious problem and someone will say something.

I want standardized names or no rule at all. Common sense is not dead.

Odaril wrote:

Not all the time. But if either exists (either in the diff name, either in the main post), I'm fine with it.

This can be a rule. In fact, this should be the rule we get out of this topic. We can recommend the guest author's name be in both the main post and the diff name.

senaya wrote:

so why do guest diffs have to state the guest mapper's name? it is guest mapper's right to call it the way he wants it to be called as long as it's not breaking the other rules because he is the one who mapped it. why force them to do something that won't change anything for players?

It's to give credit towards those that pitched in to help with the map set. Even that kind of difficulty labeling can make sense if done right like "[senaya's Extreme]" or something like that for example.

But, if it's something like "[whymeman's cookies]" then a lot of players wouldn't know if it's going to be a Easy, Normal, or Hard (or even Insane).

whymeman wrote:

It's to give credit towards those that pitched in to help with the map set. Even that kind of difficulty labeling can make sense if done right like "[senaya's Extreme]" or something like that for example.

that's not what i mean. why would you force the guest mapper to put his name into the diff name if he wants to name it just [Hard]?
he's already mentioned in tags and in the first post anyway.

I say we only make it mandatory that Taiko diffs make it obvious that they're Taiko diffs in their names, because I've seen that happen twice to me before and it's a bit annoying; I should not have to look at the scoreboard to see what mode the diff is in! That's it, really.

Tags won't mean much in terms of giving credit for the work. As far as i've seen, some maps are made with normal difficulty names without the mapper's name in it. But, credit is still given in some kind of form, usually through a Story Board or the Opening Post. As long as the credit is properly given, then that issue shouldn't be as stressful to work out.

Sakura Hana wrote:

@YodaSnipe: Hmm excuse me? that's not relevant to the topic at hand, but if you want an answer sb/skin/bg form part of the mapper's map, diff names like cake, coffee and potato make no sense to me tho, but since that's what the community wants...

1. you're excused.

2. cool nuff said. thx

Natteke wrote:

Now you look more like a dictator, Sakura inb4 post deleted

That's because she is one, but a dictator would never admit it!

As I said before, stay on topic and refrain from insults.

Okay, I propose this wording then:

A guest mapper's name must appear either in the difficulty name, either in the first post. This is meant to give credit to mappers for their work. Difficulties meant to be played in a special game mode must clearly state in their name what mode they are made for.

I think you meant "either in the difficulty name, or in the first post"

I remember the old days when you could name your diff whatever the hell you want you would have to be a oldfag to get that joke.
all jokes aside this shouldn't be a rule if anything a guideline in fact the only way this could be a rule is if we ruled out name changes all together aside from that you guys should save your energy on threads that have a bit more meaning and rules that really do need to be discussed not silly rules that don't make a bit of difference in the game even if they get added.

I like that rewording, but I still think this should be a guideline.

There are certain mappers that have made an exclusive name for their guest difficulties. Examples are Blue Dragon (Nogard), kingsal2 (Alarmable) and I guess we can add Rin and even Kirby in here.

I think that, as long as it makes sense or it's related in any way to the song/theme or difficulty (like calling an Insane [Armageddon]) AND it's not way too ridiculous, it should be okay. I personally see no harm on having a Pokemon themed beatmap with difficulties called [Pichu] [Pikachu] [Raichu] or similar (or even beatmania songs with [Hyper] and [Another]), but I really think things like this shouldn't be allowed at all, because they make zero sense.

(I'd also like to say that any kind of silly/annoying looking diff name such as [I~n~s~a~n~e] shouldn't be allowed either).

A guest mapper's name must appear either in the difficulty name, either in the first post. Any difficulty name they can be recognized with is fine. This is meant to give credit to mappers for their work. Difficulties meant to be played in a special game mode must clearly state in their name what mode they are made for.

I forgot about that D:

But yeah, this wording takes difficulty names like Rin or Kirby MIX, Taikolor, Taikosaki and others into account. I still want it to be a rule - there's nothing really badly limiting there, and it would only prevent the most extreme cases.

usually taikos are named using the Taiko no Tatsujin way of naming, so this is actually taking this into account, plus you can now specify the mapper name in the op post, so I can support this... maybe "Fruit"

For instance could someone tell me what these diffs are? and how am i supposed to know without checking creator's words, 60% of the diff names is just the mapper's name+gatari, no difficulty level, nor anything at all

How you're supposed to know? Freaking play them, if you weren't going to play, why did you DL the map?

Natteke wrote:

How you're supposed to know? Freaking play them, if you weren't going to play, why did you DL the map?

this.

Also, they are all maps that add to your insane top40s on piotrekol's osustats.tk soooo yeah go play em all anyways?

To be fair, I have no idea how hard [insane] is on 90% of the maps I play unless I look at the star rating, the mapper, and the scores. And even then it's a ballpark guess. And all of these things are unavailable to me in multiplayer.

ziin wrote:

To be fair, I have no idea how hard [insane] is on 90% of the maps I play unless I look at the star rating, the mapper, and the scores. And even then it's a ballpark guess. And all of these things are unavailable to me in multiplayer.

- Have a good laugh if it totally r4p3s you.
- Get some score if it doesn't

/win win?

Odaril wrote:

A guest mapper's name must appear either in the difficulty name, either in the first post. Any difficulty name they can be recognized with is fine. This is meant to give credit to mappers for their work. Difficulties meant to be played in a special game mode must clearly state in their name what mode they are made for.

Let's just discuss this now, the part forcing the difficulty name to appear has already been dropped.

let mappers and creators decide to do anything , anything stupid
when most players didnt complain about it, we dont need to waste our time to create such rules

I want to chainsaw this thread.

ztrot wrote:

I want to chainsaw this thread.

/me hands ztrot a chainsaw

have at it ^^

L_P wrote:

let mappers and creators decide to do anything , anything stupid
when most players didnt complain about it, we dont need to waste our time to create such rules

.... till the level of stupidity comes to the point a rule must be made to fix it? Not a good suggestion for far-sight. But like I was saying, this rule isn't restricting mappers to use names like Easy, Normal, Hard, Insane, and Extreme. It's more like a basic common sense thing to keep things from becoming absurdly ridiculous in terms of what the name SHOULD mean. Also, when something becomes a problem enough to be suggested a fix by a rule, then the problem is noticeable. Just saying "leave it, it's not going to hurt anyone" is just lazy and a inconsiderate way of thinking without attempting to think why and how it is an issue. If you put yourself before others in any of the rule topics for your own needs, your logic would risk breaking easily or be ignored. The rule topics affects everyone, not just yourself.

It's a bigger waste of time not reading and thinking though it before posting only to post a "complaint" about the rule without leverage to the logic.

whymeman wrote:

Also, when something becomes a problem enough to be suggested a fix by a rule, then the problem is noticeable. Just saying "leave it, it's not going to hurt anyone" is just lazy and a inconsiderate way of thinking without attempting to think why and how it is an issue. If you put yourself before others in any of the rule topics for your own needs, your logic would risk breaking easily or be ignored. The rule topics affects everyone, not just yourself.

Tell this to sakura hana, she does this oooon I think every suggested new feature, etc. Honestly, it's as though she is trying to piss everyone off.

Back on topic, I think it's fun to see maps with names that you'd have to watch the anime, know the mapper, etc, etc to get the diff names. To those who don't know then they're just names, but for those who do know it's kinda clever js.

I'll be blunt, I don't give a care about the "he said/she said" finger pointing. Attacking people in a group debate is not cool on either side.

And back on the topic..... Difficulty names related to the anime sounds reasonable, but still needs to make some sense. And when i'm saying something that doesn't make sense, I mean something like [Windy] & [Breezy]. It's the same thing in general terms.

Guessing something like this would be a good fix for anime related diff names: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24135

Weezy wrote:

Guessing something like this would be a good fix for anime related diff names: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24135

That's good, sometimes i wonder why people bothered to write a FAQ if people don't even look at it:

FAQ wrote:

Difficulty: While the other fields should be identical between all maps in a set, the Difficulty field is filled differently for each map, to indicate which ones are harder than others. You can select one of the default names, or create your own name. While it's good to be creative, try to make it very clear which one is harder than others -- Ambiguous difficulty names can annoy players. This would also be the field where you indicate a guest mapper, if this is their difficulty (e.g. "Larto's Hard").

meeeh I still think we can do what we want if it needs to be corrected then do it on that map thread no need for a rule this is a lost cause

It's more of a loss cause if it's not noted for those to read. Though, this could be a Guideline at least if being a rule is "too extreme".

Odaril wrote:

A guest mapper's name must appear either in the difficulty name, either in the first post. Any difficulty name they can be recognized with is fine. This is meant to give credit to mappers for their work. Difficulties meant to be played in a special game mode must clearly state in their name what mode they are made for.

Let's just discuss this now, the part forcing the difficulty name to appear has already been dropped.

Reposted because people won't read.

The part of the rule limiting the naming to something standard has been dropped on general consensus long ago, this is now what we should be discussing.
Stop ignoring my posts or any post that actually tries to get things moving.

And before you all go "but this is common sense" "this is obvious" "we don't need such a rule", experience has proven that not everyone has the same common sense and that we indeed need to state the obvious.

it already is a guideline tho, it is noted not to use something out of the way but if I make something that is like this ember, flame, blaze, inferno common sense tells me anyone with common sense could make that out.

As for mapper set names I'm fine with them being just nammed ztrot or noguard what ever it is called. As long as the map listing pages still shows a I H N E you should be able to check unless we are wanting to make everything easy and what our users to ignore the website

The rule as I proposed it doesn't prevent that kind of naming. It is widely known that Nogard is Blue Dragon's difficulty, so it falls under the second sentence. And people can keep naming their BMS maps Standard Hyper Another even if there are guest difficulties as long as they state in the map description who mapped which difficulty.

ztrot wrote:

it already is a guideline tho, it is noted not to use something out of the way but if I make something that is like this ember, flame, blaze, inferno common sense tells me anyone with common sense could make that out.

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Odaril wrote:

A guest mapper's name must appear either in the difficulty name, either in the first post. Any difficulty name they can be recognized with is fine. This is meant to give credit to mappers for their work. Difficulties meant to be played in a special game mode must clearly state in their name what mode they are made for.

This is great, except a few grammars.


As for the 2nd part, there might be a problem with "clearly". Not that this beatmap will ever get ranked, but "sayako" is clearly a taiko in my eyes, since I know the map. To someone who just downloaded the map or is unfamiliar with it, they will likely not know the difference. I'd just like some opinions on whether or not this map fits this rule.

I would go "no" and say that the name must contain the word "Taiko" or "CtB". It's not that hard.

Also ;_; my grammar

like I said this wouldn't be a rule a guideline at best unless you disable the namechange in the editor it's self. That is relevant

Thank you for not reading the other posts.
Let me repeat it once again: the part forcing the standard difficulty names has been dropped.
We are discussing guest difficulty naming now.

Disabling the namechange in the editor would make naming guest difficulties impossible. You're completely out of the discussion right now.

Also, after thinking a while, I think this case is fine, ziin, considering the other difficulties. Although it sounds and looks weird (to me at least).
Wording that kind of thing won't be easy though...

Sakura Hana wrote:

For instance could someone tell me what these diffs are? and how am i supposed to know without checking creator's words, 60% of the diff names is just the mapper's name+gatari, no difficulty level, nor anything at all

some are mapper related (cesc, Magic, Kuro), Katanagatari means Story of Katana, the Kyotouryuu is the fighting style name of the protagonist. Yet I have no problem saying which one is easier, which one is hard, and which one is done by the author.
Oh, finally ended...

Anyway, cases like this are anyway good as naming, as Ritsu is a drummer (and that obviously call "Taiko").
To with other similiar cases.

2 things need to be solved.

1. we need to know who made which difficulty.
2. we need to know if a difficulty is taiko or ctb (if it happens in the future)

And then what's wrong with ziin's version...?

For naming the diff [Herp] or [Derp], i suggest just leave that a case to case thing, if it makes no sense to a MAT/BAT he'll be free not to bubble/rank it, but since it may make sense to certain group of people, i don't suggest to make it a rule as we're not required to know everything with every music we have.

There must be a way to know the difficulty is a Taiko or CtB specific diff. I can't think of any wording atm, so I suggest to just drop that part and only keep the one about guest mappers' names.

@NatsumeRin the second part of your post is relevant to the previous naming issue which (yay I'm gonna repeat that all the time) has already been dropped.

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Anyway, cases like this are anyway good as naming, as Ritsu is a drummer (and that obviously call "Taiko").
To with other similiar cases.

There's nothing preventing osu from following the drums either. Anyone not familiar with Ritsu (plenty of folks) would not know she's a drummer, and even so, she plays a drumset, not a taiko drum.

ztrot wrote:

like I said this wouldn't be a rule a guideline at best unless you disable the namechange in the editor it's self. That is relevant

give me an example of when you shouldn't give the mapper credit.

ziin wrote:

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Anyway, cases like this are anyway good as naming, as Ritsu is a drummer (and that obviously call "Taiko").
To with other similiar cases.

There's nothing preventing osu from following the drums either. Anyone not familiar with Ritsu (plenty of folks) would not know she's a drummer, and even so, she plays a drumset, not a taiko drum.

I think the point is that it will make sense to the group of people who know who a certain character is, and since the beatmap is about a certain anime or whatever that said character is from, using that character's name would be fine

-A t H e N a- wrote:

I think the point is that it will make sense to the group of people who know who a certain character is, and since the beatmap is about a certain anime or whatever that said character is from, using that character's name would be fine

The flip side of that is that making Ritsu (Taiko) hurts no one. Leaving it called Ritsu makes me think this is a normal difficulty, then I click on it expecting to play a decent insane and get a taiko. It may make sense, but it's not obvious.

You can still give credit in the Op, as written in the last version proposed.

Plus difficulty naming it's still a form of creativity, and shouldn't be eradicated

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

You can still give credit in the Op, as written in the last version proposed.

Because everyone in this community always checks creator's words before playing a map right?

Because the mapper wants to show the whole world that they created that difficulty yes.

I don't always give credit for the fact some times I have easy, normal, somebody's tough, insane so to make it fit better I will rename it to hard and state it in the op.

Well, taiko's can also have the word "drum" or "don/kat" in the name to show it's a taiko.

I named my taiko for La Di Da to La Di Don. It was originally Taika Di Da, but it's all the same thing.

I like giving my stuff some personality at the very least.

I name a majority of my taikos just Taiko Oni if the spread doesen't say other Guest's as well. Sometimes I do it just to be neat.

why not make it like the creator can change something here or make another option for GD here

and so the guest diff. will show the name of the guest, then the guest / creator can name it "nogard" "flame" or just "Hard" instead of something like "L_P's hard" that seems fancy to me...

Sakura Hana wrote:

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

You can still give credit in the Op, as written in the last version proposed.

Because everyone in this community always checks creator's words before playing a map right?

If this People don't do this, why should this care us?
Creator's Words has a Sense. Not just that it looks cool and sexy.

I don't agree with this. It would create another potential war with beatmap makers that doesn't need to be. I think the star rating is sufficient enough to decide which difficulty it is in most cases. It's just common sense that the star rating is related to how difficult one can expect a map to be, especially when it's a full mapset with easy through insane.

Easy could be named pineapple and you would still know it's the easiest because it's the lowest starred map. The same could be said for the other difficulties except hard modes, which require an extra level of thinking to consider whether they are an hard mode or an easier Insane if it's not obvious.

Collabs are a bit harder to decipher. A good rule is to consider collabs as Hard/Hard+ to Insane. The weight of whether it's one or the other before I play it is insignificant. I know it's going to be one or the other.They could call it Collab Hard or Collab Insane and I wouldn't mind- it would make it clearer, but it doesn't seem as necessary as a rule. A guideline would handle this nicely.

Now taiko maps can be identified easily in standard mode. The difficulty is often hard to determine. I don't think it would be wise to require inexperienced modders to point out taiko maps that don't have difficulty names attached. Taiko follows a different difficulty system than standard and if this were a rule, there would need to be a defacto standard for taiko difficulty naming in an official post somewhere on the forums. Until that happens taiko maps should be exempt from such a rule.

It's just a lot of hassle for little reason.

The issue here is "Does it make sense for a game to have difficulties named like that?"