In my opinion, yes, we don't need to regulate that. If it spammed, everyone will notice so no need to worry about this.Onosakihito wrote:
So we let the mapper decide in this case?
Love wrote:
Rokodo's guidelines were and always will be perfect.
except for 7 OD right?Love wrote:
Well, inb4 retarded maps and other crap cause Ono wanted to feel special and change things. Rokodo's guidelines were and always will be perfect.
- The generel use must be ,,Normal", not ,,soft" because the option ,,soft" makes the hitcircles too quite.corrected to:
- The hitsounds set you use must be the Normal, not the Soft one, because Soft make the hitsounds too quietThis was the most visible (ask someone better in English than me a general correction of the grammar (maybe of the terms too))
BreaksI would say that it's actually better not allowing them on song shorter than like 2 minutes, avoiding them with less than 3 minutes, and suggesting them on song longer than 5.
Break sections are not allowed and should be artificially removed from .osu.
Exeptions: A song has a short empty period of time or the song it self is pretty long.
Breaks
Break sections are not allowed in songs that are shorter than 120 seconds, and should be avoided of the song is less than 180 seconds long. Neverthless, is suggested to have a some breaks on longer song(like from 300 seconds or so).
Yup.ziin wrote:
except for 7 OD right?Love wrote:
Well, inb4 retarded maps and other crap cause Ono wanted to feel special and change things. Rokodo's guidelines were and always will be perfect.
Videoany opinions about this? :3
Video should not be put in the taiko diff because it's partially covered by the taiko bar.
What. It should be generally 8OD or 7OD. The perfect OD is actually 7.5 but we don't have that hereLove wrote:
Yup.ziin wrote:
except for 7 OD right?
The most used and recommended lvl's here are: OD/HP 5~7We didn't restricted this at all. I guess I said that this rules also function as guideline? Note density of Taiko maps are usually higher than osu standard, too high OD can be quite annoying cause it increases possibility to get combo break even more than you think. We felt quite uncomfortable, so we stated that. Some newbie mappers do this mistake(usually because they just think concept of OD same as it from osu standard), so we made recommendations. Is that THAT big problem? (Again, If player don't want to place these kind of restrictions anymore, WE Taiko men will abolish them, not by others. Since it is recommendation, if mappers start to prefer higher OD than that, all we have to do is identify our consensus then update it.)
Well recently i've been useing a transparent hitburst for taiko (Just like most players do with osu! so they only see when they hit a 100), the regular one is annoying on stream maps and such. And cuts down on all the flashy stuff.lepidopodus wrote:
EDIT:
Maybe it would be better to state clearly that using bad custom hitburst is bad. (For example, using hitburst from osu standard skin. Lots of them hides judgement circle(...uh, what is exact name of this?), and doesn't even match to Taiko score system. (osu standard: 300/100/50, Taiko: 300/150)
Though it isn't really needed cause nobody is doing that these days.
The most used and recommended lvl's here are: OD/HP 5~7In general the difficulty of taiko diffs depends on pattern difficulties and slider velocity, so if it's really necessary to add extra difficulty based on maps produced, OD8 is sometimes acceptable and considered as exceptional case.
Agree,in some case,OD8 works quite wellwmfchris wrote:
The most used and recommended lvl's here are: OD/HP 5~7In general the difficulty of taiko diffs depends on pattern difficulties and slider velocity, so if it's really necessary to add extra difficulty based on maps produced, OD8 is sometimes acceptable and considered as exceptional case.
Doing this, removing video, and/or denying storyboards is completely against what peppy wants for osu! (in general). While I agree with you that it makes things easier, this should be a personal and conscious choice of the player to do so. Taiko is already fully skinnable on any map (unless the toggle doesn't work for beatmap specific skins which have taiko components in them?). Since custom skins are skinnable, videos are always removable, and 99% of the time taiko SBs don't work well and are removed in the modding process (or the author doesn't want a storyboard) with the other 1% being a well made storyboard custom fit for taiko, I strongly recommend you keep the rules as simple as possible and don't make rules about pointless stuff that doesn't matter.MMzz wrote:
Well recently i've been useing a transparent hitburst for taiko (Just like most players do with osu! so they only see when they hit a 100), the regular one is annoying on stream maps and such. And cuts down on all the flashy stuff.
In linear rhythm games, there is a trick to make the game easier. It is called screen shrinking, which cuts off some of the notes which lets you see less notes on the screen at the same time. All you have to do is make the window smaller, or cover up the window with something, for example, the side of the screen. Effectively this increases the notes' rate of approach, making the game overall easier. Having a 25% longer lane would be very similar to slowing the slider speed down 25%.Backfire wrote:
I thought it was stupid to use high OD, since like, 25% of the lane is cut off on osu!taiko. Seriously, do you just want to make it even more handicapped for us?
99% of the time taiko SBs don't work wellthat reminds me http://osu.ppy.sh/s/31395 a well made taiko SB
HakuNoKaemi wrote:
This could be unuseful.
Won't it be better to say "Rules, Guidelines and Information" in front of "Rules", as, from what I see, It's a mixup of those.
OnosakiHito: Mainly they are rules, and informations are for mainly clarify why some of the rules are taken while Guidelines/Recommendations are just for a few caes(atm jus one). Calling them a mix could be not taken serious by people, maybe?
(...)BreaksI would say that it's actually better not allowing them on song shorter than like 2 minutes, avoiding them with less than 3 minutes, and suggesting them on song longer than 5.
Break sections are not allowed and should be artificially removed from .osu.
Exeptions: A song has a short empty period of time or the song it self is pretty long.BreaksOnosakiHito: I had the same though, but it is meanless to make a strict time in this case because every song is different, what means it could probably happen that in a 2min song allready 3 of these 'no-sound-sections' appear. So I would say the exeption is enough here.
Break sections are not allowed in songs that are shorter than 120 seconds, and should be avoided of the song is less than 180 seconds long. Neverthless, is suggested to have a some breaks on longer song(like from 300 seconds or so).
OnosakiHito: I agree. I could metione somthing like this to make it more understandable. Probably I should bold the ,,recommended", too.ziin wrote:
I just don't think that an increased OD ruins the play experience, which is why a recommendation of as close to 5 as possible as a guideline would be excellent.
OnosakiHito: lepidopodus mentioned it allready, people can use ,,no-video" in this case, so maybe letting this in the hand of mapper itself is enough?wmfchris wrote:
Video
Video should not be put in the taiko diff because it's partially covered by the taiko bar.
OnosakiHito: Thought about the SB too, and I got also the same opinion in mind, to let mapper choose this.ziin wrote:
I wanted to make ono's taiko in pulse have a storyboard, but he expressed his distaste towards SBs, which is something we have to respect when it comes to a mapper. In the same token, we have to respect when a mapper wants as storyboard.
This makes me wonder, [...] . It's a guest diff, which means it's up to the mapset organizer on whether to change it or not. Herp.OnosakiHito wrote:
Taiko guest diffsI don't want to show examples here, but it happened allready. Severel times now(and I'm really angry about this). The newest case isn't even a week old.
It is not allowed to replace another mappers Taiko guest diff. with his own, without contacting and discuss/talk about this with him personally.
In the case of pulse, I was going to move it down so it wasn't obstructed by the taiko bar, which wouldn't have been hard to do at all.OnosakiHito wrote:
Pulse - as you say - was a really nice SB, but it was pretty meanless to keep it because the scrollbar(where the notes appear) has overlay the SB so it was mostly not seeable.
though I think there's something that rule rules, while moral rules the rest. We don't need to put such "rules" there though it's trivially correct.ziin wrote:
It's incredibly rude to change a guest mapper's difficulty without permission or to remove the guest difficulty without notifying them first.
avoid containing two taiko diff of similar difficulty in the same mapset.In this case I think it's better to leave for mapper's own decision, every diff could hv its own difficulties and experience bringing to players, like
I think this, and the "reasonable hitobject placement" are great examples of "ways to increase the number of errors in a map". Not only do you have to properly hitsound things, but you have to make sure it's the right color and put in the correct place in the play area.OnosakiHito wrote:
- Custom combo colours
Custom combo colours do not really matter to taiko as they will be overridden in actual gameplay. The case is the same with combo numbering, but you may wish to use the numbering to mark out red/blue notes visually within edit mode (assuming no custom colours have been set), this would make modding for other people easier and could make mapping easier:
Question, how exactly does switching to something other than this affects gameplay?Rules wrote:
The Slider Velocitys, 1.40 and 1.60 should be used
I would say that just monoton stream should be permitted because, I'm worred that cases like kkddK could be abused or discussed about why for example xoxoX is not allowed.wmfchris wrote:
should be monoton streams with hitfinish(kkkkK/ddddD) be banned?
Well, assuming the pattern fits the music, if ddddD is banned I don't see why kkddD is ok, reversely, if any type of 5-plets ending with finishes is fine I don't see why ddddD is not permitted.
@Zekira: Well, it's right what you said, but it ende up with my thoughs in this thread. It was something like: This would be a huge gameplay changing in Taiko-osu!, it's like the preliminary stage of reseting the scores from players. Also BG's/SB's would be messed up and maybe much more.wmfchris wrote:
should be monoton streams with hitfinish(kkkkK/ddddD) be banned?
Well, assuming the pattern fits the music, if ddddD is banned I don't see why kkddD is ok, reversely, if any type of 5-plets ending with finishes is fine I don't see why ddddD is not permitted.
OnosakiHito: I wrote following down for now ,,Exeptions: At the end of a minimum 8-plet or 5-plets long not complex 1/4 stream were a climax sound is clearly hearable.".
It is clear now that streams like kkdkddkD are not allowed. But to say monoton streams is also wrong, since xxxxoooX seams to be still okay.
Maybe saying something like ,,max pattern diff. in a stream is xxxxoooO/xxxxoooX". I don't know how this is called, 4-plets in a stream? lol
Exact limit for finishes needed(take the rules in the first post as starting point)
I don't see the relationship between limiting finishes and the multipliers of timing sections (I rather not to use that specific terms since many may not know, and I think it's the same for the official rules to avoid that term), that reminds me the ending of Black Rose Apostle. The appropiateness of putting finishes refers to the song, not be anything else.
OnosakiHito: I will add this soon.
Is "Xaiko" allowed in the personal custom-name cause? :/OnosakiHito wrote:
New guideline added - I'm pleased to receive gramma improvements lol
- Diff. Name
Don't use any custom or no-sense diff. names because, people will barely find those kind of diffs, also they don't show the lvl of the Taiko diff..
The normal and recommended use of a diff. name is in most cases XXX's Taiko or XXX's Taiko Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni/Inner Oni/Ura Oni.
Under certain circumstances - depends on modders/communitys decision -(e.g. project-leader wants unified diff- names), the diff. name may have a slight change.
It is also allowed to use a personal custom-name which is used permanently, such as for example: ,,Taikosaki(OnosakiHito), Taikocalypse(Backfire) or Taikolor(Mr Colour)".
OnosakiHito wrote:
中国- 日本 - Français - Deutsch
Taiko Rankability Rules and Guidelines
[notice]Rules - You may not break these everI haven't seen many taiko only maps include such rest moments. Will this be something people will have to get used to? Because I thought that taiko maps weren't supposed to have breaks. By definition this would be a break? Or is that rule changing? Please be kind enough to give me a flatout answer.
- Slider Velocity
The Slider Velocitys, 1.40 and 1.60 must be used(1.40 is the standard slider velocity that is recommended to be used in taiko specific maps while 1.60 is the standart slider velocity for slower BPM songs). Also, keep the original overall/generel SV.
Exeptions: Lower slider velocitys are allowed to be used in songs with a really high BPM above 260~280. Recommended SV is 1.20 for this. It also depends on how readable the notes are, in their current position.
Maps with a BPM about 300 should be mapped just with 1/2 notes and a SV of 1.20 or smaller. Another way is also to take half of the BPM.
Example: BPM 145: Kozato snow - Rengetsu Ouka - BPM 270: Yousei Teikoku - Sacrifice I think this is better suited as a guideline. I've seen taiko play well at a multitude of slider velocities. It also becomes more or less lenient the higher/lower the BPM is, so this rule cannot apply to all cases. I think taiko authentic maps mostly use 1.4 or 1.6 , but there are reasons to go lower or higher for non-authentic maps.
- Rest Moments
Every specific Taiko diff. need to include rest moments. This means to avoid the use of constantly 1/4 notes and add some 1/1 moments.
I don't think I'll be able to check it... too many people lol. Therefore, I'm going on a hiatus atm, because of this.OnosakiHito wrote:
@XK: Oh you understand me wrong. I just mean you need to check if anyone else had such a name before, because otherwise your diff could be asociated with the other guy.
Finish NotesWhat I would recommend is, having a 1/4 cluster with one finish at the end should be acceptable if required (like the climax sound you described earlier), but only if BPM is below 150 and the pattern is simple (simple being a monotone cluster or max of two switches between red and blue eg "xxooxxX"), and never in any case should anyone spam finishes and notes in a single 1/4 cluster eg "xXoOoOXxxX". If a 1/4 cluster made up of all finishes is deemed required, scroll speed must be above x1.5 of the song's BPM (in OODain's case it's x1.67 of the normal)
- These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
- Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommended, to avoid overlapping).
Exeptions: Every stream that has "xxooxxooX" or harder patterns need to have a 1/2 space between stream and finish. That means using finishes on following streams were a climax sound is clearly hearable is allowed: "xxxxxxxx...xxxxO", "xxxxoooo...xxxxooooX"
I'm already dead, Ono xDOnosakiHito wrote:
@XK: Try to play my Infinite taikosaki with the SV 1.60.
Blue - agreed, it doesn't need further explainationaquabluu wrote:
What I would recommend is, having a 1/4 cluster with one finish at the end should be acceptable if required (like the climax sound you described earlier), but only if BPM is below 150 and the pattern is simple (simple being a monotone cluster or max of two switches between red and blue eg "xxooxxX"), and never in any case should anyone spam finishes and notes in a single 1/4 cluster eg "xXoOoOXxxX". If a 1/4 cluster made up of all finishes is deemed required, scroll speed must be above x1.5 of the song's BPM (in OODain's case it's x1.67 of the normal)
I think that'd be fun to play though. Maybe I just like air. gogo unranked Tairko maps.lepidopodus wrote:
@ziin: 大打音 is so-called neta-map. That means it is extremely exceptional case. Don't expand it too much. If similar map got submitted in osu, we might allow that but only after long long discussion.
OnosakiHito wrote:
I don't think so? Or I didn't recognize this post before.
the middle ground would be only xxxdK be allowed as a guideline, if that. Backfire, ozzy, Rokodo, and maybe lepi all say a big "NO" to any big notes in 1/4 streams, even at the end of screams. The points I made earlier are still valid (big notes aren't impossible, and can be fun to some people) but a lot of people despise them with a passion, especially on osu. Since the users really need to make the rules, we need to follow their lead.OnosakiHito wrote:
Okay, stop please for a moment.
Before any new ideas are coming up, first discuss about the rule it self, please. After that you can use new ideas and opinions. But not before.Things got at the moment really messed up here. I will aske some BAT's to clean the thread if necessary.
- Finish Notes
These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
Exeptions: At the end of a minimum 8-plet or 5-plets long 1/4 stream were a climax sound is clearly hearable. Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommendet, to avoid overlapping).
Example: AU - Infinite of Nuclear Fusion [Taiko Oni]
If this should happen, I will add this into the second post two, what has been deleted.
we have been over this.MMzz wrote:
Why can't we just stick to authentic rules.
Oh wait noone even maps authentic anymore.
no. this is not necessary and will be caught in modding. you don't have to make a rule for everything.TheVileOne wrote:
Okay. May I make some insight of a new rule?
No note must be visible within the track of other notes due to an inherited SV change.
I've really hate when a slider velocity just plummets and you see this note moving within all the other notes, because it's got an x50 or now it would be x65.
Size?OnosakiHito wrote:
Information: Circle Side and Approchal Rate have no effect in Taiko
ISHIDAMITSUNARI wrote:
一些看法 :
1. imo finish in the ending of BPM180 1/4 should be permitted.
2. Flashing kiai should be permitted unless they affect reading the notes
3. A clear-cut rule for 1/8 should be given, e.g. BPM140+ no 1/8; BPM120-140 no more that 1/8 5-plets, etc.
4. hitsound (whistle v clap) in editor is not that important and should be used to fit the song (i.e. some fit with whistle)
5. A clear range of SV should be set for different BPM as well.
6. custom skin is possible to appear in taiko gameplay so I don't think it's to be banned
sp3 wrote:
1. taiko BG should be required
2. Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4
3. Letterbox during breaks should be removed.
4. Flashy SB/Vid should be removed artificially.
Numbers wrote:
1. Difficulty setting: AR/CS shouldn't be unreasonbly low because that affects score multiplier.
2. imo 1/8 in BPM 105 or below is ok, and 1/6 should be ok for all time.
3. BPM multiplier should be restricted to like 1.5x, 0.75x, 0.5x, 2x, etc but not 0.8x, 0.95x,...
4. streams should not exist between two neighbouring sliders.
kpy wrote:
Being a player I oppose finishes on 1/4 1/6 1/8
climbb wrote:
1. I oppose finishes on 1/4 or above because hitting both keys is supposed to hit the finishes in osu! taiko (in ordinary ways of playing), they are only acceptable in very low BPM songs like BPM120 or below.
2. "playability" of 1/8 is hard to define but it doesn't need a clear banning, such conditions would be ideal for 1/8:
i) BPM140 or below; AND
ii) 1/8 is clearly auidable OR 1/8 has clear meaning in the song.
3. Video should not be artificially removed. If they affects gameplay they have the right to use no video but artificially removing video destroys the oppotunity for all players to watch the video in taiko gameplay.
Kanarin wrote:
If there's clear accent in the music, simple stream with finish at the end is acceptable for all BPM like ddddK
Said discussion will be talked about with other taiko mappers.wmfchris wrote:
Here're some translations from the Chinese taiko mappers.ISHIDAMITSUNARI wrote:
一些看法 :
1. imo finish in the ending of BPM180 1/4 should be permitted. Right now finish is on every BPM allowed as long as the notes dosen't overlap, too much.
2. Flashing kiai should be permitted unless they affect reading the notes This need to be discussed with more people. In my opinion it should never be allowed. Having some short kiai breaks which are some seconds long in fitting sections is okay.
3. A clear-cut rule for 1/8 should be given, e.g. BPM140+ no 1/8; BPM120-140 no more that 1/8 5-plets, etc. This need to be discussed more.
4. hitsound (whistle v clap) in editor is not that important and should be used to fit the song (i.e. some fit with whistle) This is just a recommended guideline. Using whistle is okay, but not recommended since clap = original kat.
5. A clear range of SV should be set for different BPM as well. Need to be discussed more.
6. custom skin is possible to appear in taiko gameplay so I don't think it's to be banned Right now it is premited. Just Custom-Hitbursts are not allowed.sp3 wrote:
1. taiko BG should be required I will add this in the next update in Recommendations section for now.
2. Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4 Sounds resonable. Some discuss requiered.
3. Letterbox during breaks should be removed. To mention it in the guidelines should be enough.
4. Flashy SB/Vid should be removed artificially. This is hard to consider, people still can delete flashy SB's or use no-video. Further discussion coming.Numbers wrote:
1. Difficulty setting: AR/CS shouldn't be unreasonbly low because that affects score multiplier. keep it as lvl 5 should be okay. But so or so we don't know the real affect of it.
2. imo 1/8 in BPM 105 or below is ok, and 1/6 should be ok for all time. On low BPM's 1/8 is okay. I forgot to mention it in the rules because of many changes.
3. BPM multiplier should be restricted to like 1.5x, 0.75x, 0.5x, 2x, etc but not 0.8x, 0.95x,... Need some discussion.
4. streams should not exist between two neighbouring sliders. At the moment the guidelines says the same. In some cases we may do it.kpy wrote:
Being a player I oppose finishes on 1/4 1/6 1/8 Still on discussion. But most people seam to be fine with it(even aquabluu and Zekira)climbb wrote:
1. I oppose finishes on 1/4 or above because hitting both keys is supposed to hit the finishes in osu! taiko (in ordinary ways of playing), they are only acceptable in very low BPM songs like BPM120 or below. Hitting them with both keys is an invalid reason if the finish is another colour as the stream (xxxxooooX)
2. "playability" of 1/8 is hard to define but it doesn't need a clear banning, such conditions would be ideal for 1/8:
i) BPM140 or below; AND
ii) 1/8 is clearly auidable OR 1/8 has clear meaning in the song. Need to be discussed more.
3. Video should not be artificially removed. If they affects gameplay they have the right to use no video but artificially removing video destroys the oppotunity for all players to watch the video in taiko gameplay. I agree. But as I said before this needs also some discussions and borders.Kanarin wrote:
If there's clear accent in the music, simple stream with finish at the end is acceptable for all BPM like ddddK I agree.