So, I guess I'll give some of my opinions to the rules ~

AR/CS settings : I'm fine with all settings as they don't affect the gameplay. Maybe we can let the mappers to choose their own AR/CS so that minor score adjustment becomes possible ? Because as I know, the score depends on the diff settings ~

1/4 finishes : imo 1/4 finishes at the end of stream are acceptable as they're not that hard to hit. Just don't put too many when the BPM is high. But still I won't use them in my maps because they look a bit visually untidy ( the finish stacks the previous note )

1/8 : This depends on the song. Avoid them when the BPM is quite high ( ~ 160 BPM. No exact value for ban needed imo. Just treat them case-by-case ? ). Don't make them long ( strongly suggest 5 as max ) and only place them when they really fit the song / necessary ~

Sliders in 1/3 songs : As I know, there's no method to control the frequency of hits in sliders. So I oppose using sliders in 1/3 songs as they are really hard to hit ( don't match the song and they sound off ). And yes, there should be a function to control the slider hit rate in Taiko :<

Video : Don't remove them. The reason is same for CBB. I fully agree with that ~

Kiai flashes : Maybe it's me, but I think as long as they don't distract the gameplay quite a lot, they should be allowed. I personally think that flashes can be parts of styles, and therefore they should not be banned for no reason. ( Maybe for those who oppose them, give me some reasons for that ? I don't think "solo diffs are banned from flashes so Taiko should be banned too" is a convincing reason to ban them. Taiko is just different from solo. Otherwise we won't have Taiko-only diffs, right ? )

SV changes ( BPM multipliers ) : For me, 0.5x to 1.2x are all fine. Anything lower than normal should be readable, and those higher should be possible to sightread and hit. I personally like to use multipliers of 1 digit ( eg 0.8x, 0.9x, 1.1x etc )

I may add more later. Can't think of much to write for now.

^ Someone can't read.

ziin wrote:

Except for the dual time signature maps where you would have to use x1.5 BPM. If it's still "unrankable" then it's a terrible limitation and needs to be implemented for all modes of play.

I think an exception can be made in the case where it changes mid-song. This applies to all modes.
Remember to set your time signature to 6 (or 3 for 0.75) so that your barlines don't suck.

mm201 wrote:

^ Someone can't read. I actually read that, but I didn't test if it works yet. So I just assume that there's no way to fix that. Sry sbout that

And yes, this is my 500th post ._.

I don't understand the reasoning for limiting AR/CS.

In most of the taiko maps points per hit is 1100. If AR/CS is too low so that the difficulty rating decreases that will affect scores of taiko diff in which that difficulty rating may not fit the general difficulty of the diff.

In most case, unreasonably high won't affect the difficulty rating (unless it's extremely streamy then the points per hit goes to 1260), but too low AR/CS will make points per hit dropping to like 940 or even 780 which is a misfit with the diff.

mm201: wow I don't know that before lol. If it's available I think it's necessary to write that into rules.

===================

Numbers wrote:

The break time for very slow songs (like BPM120) could be half beat instead of 1.

How about we remove slider ticks because they are bad.

Ever notice that it's near impossible to get a perfect start on them when a stream leads into them. ( I can give plenty of examples )

I don't understand why sliders can't just have a set amount of hits to them according to length, but you can hit them as fast as you want.

And thus this silly issue about 1/3 sliders would be fixed.

I miss unlimited sliders. >:

Unlimited sldiers are so easily makroable. And why should you limit the amount of hits? Sliders would turn out to be like a spinner, just that you dont need to hit dkdkdkd but inputwhateveryouwant until you reached the limit.

There were several reasons when they got removed back then >:

I can think of a more tolerant algorithm than the current one for rolls but implementing it would be unfair to existing scores.

You guys impllimented Hyper fruits, that was unfair to Ctb scores. =P

Hitting them with both keys is an invalid reason if the finish is another colour as the stream (xxxxooooX)

For the considerable amount of two-finger-players like me, this matters. Players playing with specific techniques should not benefit from the rules-----Do you play a real drum with four sticks？

@hknoboru: I played the original TnT and I play the TataCon on my PC. Personally I can hit them and other people would say the same or the controvers opinion.
So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.

I consider it a drum simulatation game. Anyway as there exists such players we cant force them to give up fast afterstreamfinishes, this results in a general loss of score when compared to players playing with four fingers

I disagree with putting anything other than a k or d (small) after a stream (1/4 1/6 or 1/8). Anything like that looks ugly (ddddddddK looks unbelievably ugly, or sliders right after streams) and are usually unplayable (unless certain conditions...).

you can simply implement that new algorithm in newer ranked maps only (obviously ranked after the introduction, i know it could cause bugs anyway ) and in the autoplay.

@HakuNoKaemi: That's something I have wanted to talk with mm201 about, since I discussed with some other known taiko mappers about this. Probably I will send him a PM soon, because he has much to do.

Edit: Got mm201 answer about this. Further informations are coming.

Edit2: @v: Oh I see now what HakuNoKaemi, ment. lol

I'm not changing the slider judgement algorithm.

OnosakiHito wrote:

@hknoboru: I played the original TnT and I play the TataCon on my PC. Personally I can hit them and other people would say the same or the controvers opinion.
So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.

just because you can hit them doesn't mean everyone can.

If we are looking at this realisticly a taiko drum should never be hit like that.

And besides, if you hit the middle of the drum it resembles a both side hit sometimes? I was told this by players before.

Odaril wrote:

I disagree with putting anything other than a k or d (small) after a stream (1/4 1/6 or 1/8). Anything like that looks ugly (ddddddddK looks unbelievably ugly, or sliders right after streams) and are usually unplayable (unless certain conditions...).

Are you saying what the notes look like counts towards how good/bad the map is?
lol

Mh, I said that a bit awkward, huh?
I have the same thought as you MMzz, that's why I said to hknoboru ,,So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.".
This should mean like ,,My opinion, or other people opinions, what is possible with drum or not is pretty invalid, so let's move to the question..."

Yes, I thought about this, tbh, too. BUt never testet it. Will do that soon. lol


About 1/4 finishes, there will be probably no big changes anymore since this has been really often dicussed before and most people seams fine with them when they are just on easy streams (xxxxxxxxO/xxxxooooX)
I will make soon a more understandable rule about finishes.

OnosakiHito wrote:

Mh, I said that a bit awkward, huh?
I have the same thought as you MMzz, that's why I said to hknoboru ,,So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.".
This should mean like ,,My opinion, or other people opinions, what is possible with drum or not is pretty invalid, so let's move to the question..."

Yes, I thought about this, tbh, too. BUt never testet it. Will do that soon. lol


About 1/4 finishes, there will be probably no big changes anymore since this has been really often dicussed before and most people seams fine with them when they are just on easy streams (xxxxxxxxO/xxxxooooX)
I will make soon a more understandable rule about finishes.

Well whenever I'm in the situation where oooooooO (or viseversa) appears I usually just cut the note before the finisher. ooooooo O

I agree with MMzz in the sense that this is a drum visualization.

Sure, I agree.
So or so at the moment finish streams like ooooooooO are not allowed.

I talked yesterday to someone who had a really good opinion about those rules.
And one big importand topic was how they are written down. Too much informations and things which dosen't need to be mentioned in rules are written down as ziin said before, too. And I agreed with it, so I made a draft for now to show it to you guys.

Reason is pretty easy. Obviously things dosen't need to be mentioned, this would be more like an mapping guide then. Also the obviously things can be mentioned as mods in the maps itself. Tell me if something is still too long or you have an opinion about this, please.

Here you have the short version of he rules for now:

I think the short version is clear and good enough to be handed in as 1.0 version.
From now on I suggest to let this rules live and develop on its own (like they do in standard mode)

If it turns out that there are apparent needs for adjustments, they can be assigned later on.
Anything else that could be disturbing in a song is song-specified in most cases and don't need to be generalized in a rule or guideline.

This rules shouldn't replace the modding process, so with THIS we have some compendium of what is a "no-go" EVERYWHERE. When something on a specific taiko map turns out to be 'eww' even if it's not forbidden, mod it out of it.
Same method gets used in standard mode. So we can do the same.

^ Agree.

OD/HP of marathon diffs: 1~4

=>

HP of marathon diffs: 1~5 depends on length and # of notes in the song.

You didn't add "Tick rate 3 for 1/3 songs only" as well.

I still don't think xxxxxxxxO should be specially permitted

What makes it different from xxxxooooX ?

well, why not xxxxxxxxX ? (theoretically easier than the xO type)
you could permit Oxxx / Xooo (as long it play much much much good and direct, ) they could "have sense" but being difficult to play if not intuitive, you should pretty much say to try to use it if their using have sense )
The xoxoxoxoX could be allowed. But yeah, if people use them they should pretty much have sense.

No it's not easier, because you'd have to press the same key twice in a row in a stream.

We discussed the variations of finish streams at the end/beginning/inbetween several times and we came to the conclusion, that the finish streams should only be allowed at this kind of patterns.
We cleary deny same coloured finishes, because you have to play (for me as example) sdsdsd(sd) - (or for default settings: djdjdjdj(DJ))
Try to imagine that you stream on standard with two keys and then have to hit the last note with both keys.

The thing with different colored finishes is that you have to hit them with different keys than you were streaming with, so they are easier to hit.

Loctav said everything.
This has been dicussed many times and ,,xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX" is the absolut final decision.
No ...xoxO or anything else.

Also who don't like them, don't need to map them. Everything is moding based.

I think you should add into the Finish Note section that finishers should be used WHEN THERE IS A FINISHER SOUND IN THE SONG (Cymbols and stuff)

I've been seeing a lot of random finishers these days.

MMzz wrote:

I think you should add into the Finish Note section that finishers should be used WHEN THERE IS A FINISHER SOUND IN THE SONG (Cymbols and stuff)

I've been seeing a lot of random finishers these days.

We don't need to add to the rules that hitobjects need to fit the music. (which also means that finishers should only be placed where it fits)

Different versions has been posted into the first post.
Taiko_BG case will be also added to Recommendation.

Just curious, what is the maximum draining time for a Taiko difficulty to be ranked, and not approved.
Does it follow the same time set in the rules for standard?

NoHitter wrote:

Just curious, what is the maximum draining time for a Taiko difficulty to be ranked, and not approved.
Does it follow the same time set in the rules for standard?

Probably should, albeit authentic TnT rarely ever goes over 2 mins (if ever) but we have a lot of ranked long Taiko maps so i guess we could just put the same limit for Taiko maps.

There are some cases though with 4:30+ minute songs.
They are mapped with breaks such that the standard difficulties are under 4:30 min draining time.

If there is a Taiko, then the mapset would have to be approved just for the Taiko diff due to Taiko not having breaks.
Perhaps some leeway should be allowed for cases like this?

Since Taiko does not really affects whether the mapset is approved or ranked, Currently it depends on draining time of standard maps.
(But if we have to make the limitation for Taiko maps, limit of draining time should be longer than 4:30, I think. Yeah. We don't have many breaks in our maps.)

And I'd rather say avoid using breaks unless the song is really long or mood of the part of the song is suit well with no notes. I don't like disallowing something, usually.

Set it to 5 minutes or the same total length of the corresponding standard diffs.
Yes, we don't use breaks as far as possible, but they are not required, since we don't need to rearrange ourselves like in standard (where the pen starts to glide out of the hand or the desk starts to end while playing with mouse)