show more
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
New recommendation added

  1. Reasonable hitobject-placement
    Hitobject placements dosen't really matter to taiko, too, since the hitcircles are automatically converted into the one and only x-axis, but you may wish to use it in an organized way:
    PICTURE
Difficulty Settings and Song Setup has been moved from rules to guidelines!

I will check the rules one more time, after that they should be more like finished. I will announce this in some Taiko threads.
XK2238
2,067 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238

OnosakiHito wrote:

New guideline added - I'm pleased to receive gramma improvements lol

  1. Diff. Name
    Don't use any custom or no-sense diff. names because, people will barely find those kind of diffs, also they don't show the lvl of the Taiko diff..
    The normal and recommended use of a diff. name is in most cases XXX's Taiko or XXX's Taiko Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni/Inner Oni/Ura Oni.
    Under certain circumstances - depends on modders/communitys decision -(e.g. project-leader wants unified diff- names), the diff. name may have a slight change.
    It is also allowed to use a personal custom-name which is used permanently, such as for example: ,,Taikosaki(OnosakiHito), Taikocalypse(Backfire) or Taikolor(Mr Colour)".
Is "Xaiko" allowed in the personal custom-name cause? :/
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@^: "Xaiko" would be allowed in the momentan guideline.
Only question you should ask your self is: ,,Dose some one use it allready?" and ,,When do I want to use it?"
Personaly, I would recommend to use such names just for your hardest diffs because we still want to keep e.g. diff-names like ,,Taiko Oni", but it's your choice at all.

So or so I need to talk with some people about this.

Edit: Oh, found today a Xaiko diff.. lol
XK2238
2,067 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238
My hardest ones... Alright, I got it. (y) Like this one?

And nope, I found that name myself.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
I'm just popping in to say that taiko specific guest difficulties are still guest difficulties. Why should the naming of such be treated any differently than Mapper name's <insert taiko difficulty name here>? Name claiming has never been an issue before, even in standard, so why should it become an issue with taiko specifics?


SPOILER

OnosakiHito wrote:

中国- 日本 - Français - Deutsch


Taiko Rankability Rules and Guidelines

[notice]Rules - You may not break these ever

  1. Slider Velocity
    The Slider Velocitys, 1.40 and 1.60 must be used(1.40 is the standard slider velocity that is recommended to be used in taiko specific maps while 1.60 is the standart slider velocity for slower BPM songs). Also, keep the original overall/generel SV.
    Exeptions: Lower slider velocitys are allowed to be used in songs with a really high BPM above 260~280. Recommended SV is 1.20 for this. It also depends on how readable the notes are, in their current position.
    Maps with a BPM about 300 should be mapped just with 1/2 notes and a SV of 1.20 or smaller. Another way is also to take half of the BPM.
    Example: BPM 145: Kozato snow - Rengetsu Ouka - BPM 270: Yousei Teikoku - Sacrifice I think this is better suited as a guideline. I've seen taiko play well at a multitude of slider velocities. It also becomes more or less lenient the higher/lower the BPM is, so this rule cannot apply to all cases. I think taiko authentic maps mostly use 1.4 or 1.6 , but there are reasons to go lower or higher for non-authentic maps.


    1. Rest Moments
      Every specific Taiko diff. need to include rest moments. This means to avoid the use of constantly 1/4 notes and add some 1/1 moments.
I haven't seen many taiko only maps include such rest moments. Will this be something people will have to get used to? Because I thought that taiko maps weren't supposed to have breaks. By definition this would be a break? Or is that rule changing? Please be kind enough to give me a flatout answer.
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
In regards to rest moments, one could consider a "rest" as lasting for as long as a bar. In osu!stream, there are no breaks, so there can be sections of one two bars to give the player a rest. The suggested gap of a beat isn't this severe and would definitely not be long enough to count as a break. Basically, if the editor doesn't insert a break automatically, then there is no break and therefore no problem.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
rests are relative concept depends on the song. Some song trivially don't fit with breaks and not even a short one. Make some reasonable pace variation is enough.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@XK: Oh you understand me wrong. I just mean you need to check if anyone else had such a name before, because otherwise your diff could be asociated with the other guy.

@TheVileOne:
- Well, rather want to clear that now as to have problems with names in the future. Some people tend more and more to use unecessary names. Also in osu! it is still easier to see what for a diff this is because of the star lvl for example. In Taiko it's not that case.
- I agree to Slider Velocity.
- Oh? I don't mean breaks, I mean little rest moments. Those are used in every Taiko map.
This one for example not: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/30730 That's not good for the stamina of players and is a generel agreedment here.

@D33d:
Same what I said to TheVileOne. It's just considered as 1/1 or 1/2, moments were a song has no mainsounds/etc..

wmfchris has explained it better I guess.
XK2238
2,067 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238

OnosakiHito wrote:

@XK: Oh you understand me wrong. I just mean you need to check if anyone else had such a name before, because otherwise your diff could be asociated with the other guy.
I don't think I'll be able to check it... too many people lol. Therefore, I'm going on a hiatus atm, because of this. I'm playing with my cousin's account at the moment though, quite legit.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@XK: Try to play my Infinite taikosaki with the SV 1.60. ;)

Anyway, moved SV into guidelins and changed Finishes to this:

  1. Finish Notes
    - These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
    - Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommended, to avoid overlapping).
    Exeptions: Every stream that has "xxooxxooX" or harder patterns need to have a 1/2 space between stream and finish. That means using finishes on following streams were a climax sound is clearly hearable is allowed: "xxxxxxxx...xxxxO", "xxxxoooo...xxxxooooX"
aquabluu
5,024 posts
Joined February 2008
aquabluu
Finish Notes
- These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
- Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommended, to avoid overlapping).
Exeptions: Every stream that has "xxooxxooX" or harder patterns need to have a 1/2 space between stream and finish. That means using finishes on following streams were a climax sound is clearly hearable is allowed: "xxxxxxxx...xxxxO", "xxxxoooo...xxxxooooX"
What I would recommend is, having a 1/4 cluster with one finish at the end should be acceptable if required (like the climax sound you described earlier), but only if BPM is below 150 and the pattern is simple (simple being a monotone cluster or max of two switches between red and blue eg "xxooxxX"), and never in any case should anyone spam finishes and notes in a single 1/4 cluster eg "xXoOoOXxxX". If a 1/4 cluster made up of all finishes is deemed required, scroll speed must be above x1.5 of the song's BPM (in OODain's case it's x1.67 of the normal)
XK2238
2,067 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238

OnosakiHito wrote:

@XK: Try to play my Infinite taikosaki with the SV 1.60. ;)
I'm already dead, Ono xD

My comments on the rule can be found on the Taiko Playersthread.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris

aquabluu wrote:

What I would recommend is, having a 1/4 cluster with one finish at the end should be acceptable if required (like the climax sound you described earlier), but only if BPM is below 150 and the pattern is simple (simple being a monotone cluster or max of two switches between red and blue eg "xxooxxX"), and never in any case should anyone spam finishes and notes in a single 1/4 cluster eg "xXoOoOXxxX". If a 1/4 cluster made up of all finishes is deemed required, scroll speed must be above x1.5 of the song's BPM (in OODain's case it's x1.67 of the normal)
Blue - agreed, it doesn't need further explaination

Red - I believe it's hard to define a clear cut BPM that 1/4 can be placed, the marginal case is very controversal... and if finish-stream is deemed to be necessary (which is a very rare case), I think SV1.0x of its normal is enough because they don't cover each other.
aquabluu
5,024 posts
Joined February 2008
aquabluu
Well it's all very situational, I just set some values that can be changed anytime. I think this is up to the individual map and whether it's comfortable to have a 1/4 finish cluster though.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
Are people realing debating over finish notes at the end of streams...?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
I thought lepid and I killed that discussion already.

lepidopodus wrote:

@ziin: 大打音 is so-called neta-map. That means it is extremely exceptional case. Don't expand it too much. If similar map got submitted in osu, we might allow that but only after long long discussion.
I think that'd be fun to play though. Maybe I just like air. gogo unranked Tairko maps.

(by the way, I do not care on this. While I don't mind finishes, I'm also not a good taiko player and my opinion does not matter very much here. I'm fine with making finishes completely unrankable. The point is that even a 100% authentic taiko map would have a difficult time being ranked in osu!taiko, if at all.)
Last edited by ziin , edited 1 time in total.
Backfire
3,205 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
The answer is no, don't do it, it's terrible.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Okay, how about minimate it much more?
As lepidopodus said, Don't expand it too much. If similar map got submitted in osu, we might allow that but only after long long discussion.

So or so finishes were discussed everytime and somtimes some mappers want to keep it but don't do because of discussions. So let's move this problem under guidelines (or keep it in rules) and say:
  1. Finish Notes
    Using finishes at the beginning/end or middle of a stream is not allowed. Under certain conditions and many discussion there may be made an exception.

Seams better?
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Make unusable middle-stream Finishes ( Rule ), Beginning/End Finish Notes usable but discouraged ( Guideline or Rule )
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
1. unsuable middle-stream Finishes & beginning-stream finishes
2. End finishes usable but dicouraged

Beginning(overlapping by finishes) is worser as ending(overlapping by normal hitcircle)

spliting it would be... possible, I guess?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Isn't that was first proposed a long long time ago?
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
I don't think so? Or I didn't recognize this post before.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Middle -> Prohibited by Rule, Reason: Obvious ( suggest splitting stream )
Start -> Highly Discouraged by Guideline, Reason: They have sense sometime.
End -> Avoid Random using by Recommendation, Reason: They're easier to play and to use.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

OnosakiHito wrote:

I don't think so? Or I didn't recognize this post before.

OnosakiHito wrote:

Okay, stop please for a moment.

Before any new ideas are coming up, first discuss about the rule it self, please. After that you can use new ideas and opinions. But not before.

  1. Finish Notes
    These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
    Exeptions: At the end of a minimum 8-plet or 5-plets long 1/4 stream were a climax sound is clearly hearable. Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommendet, to avoid overlapping).
    Example: AU - Infinite of Nuclear Fusion [Taiko Oni]
Things got at the moment really messed up here. I will aske some BAT's to clean the thread if necessary.
If this should happen, I will add this into the second post two, what has been deleted.
the middle ground would be only xxxdK be allowed as a guideline, if that. Backfire, ozzy, Rokodo, and maybe lepi all say a big "NO" to any big notes in 1/4 streams, even at the end of screams. The points I made earlier are still valid (big notes aren't impossible, and can be fun to some people) but a lot of people despise them with a passion, especially on osu. Since the users really need to make the rules, we need to follow their lead.

The best reason to disallow these notes is that it is unauthentic. While you can cite difficulty as a reason, I wouldn't do so, because there should never be a limit to difficulty as long as it is theoretically possible. We can discourage hard maps, but we shouldn't outright ban them.
Backfire
3,205 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
They can be royally abused and thus could make maps hard to read.

The BEST way to describe what is "acceptable" is if it speeds up into the finish, or you're using fake (doubled) bpm/sv.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
What does it mean by overlapping notes?
Backfire
3,205 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
When a finish covers up a regular note.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Why can't we just stick to authentic rules.
Oh wait noone even maps authentic anymore.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Okay. May I make some insight of a new rule?

No note must be visible within the track of other notes due to an inherited SV change.

I've really hate when a slider velocity just plummets and you see this note moving within all the other notes, because it's got an x50 or now it would be x65.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

MMzz wrote:

Why can't we just stick to authentic rules.
Oh wait noone even maps authentic anymore.
we have been over this.

TheVileOne wrote:

Okay. May I make some insight of a new rule?

No note must be visible within the track of other notes due to an inherited SV change.

I've really hate when a slider velocity just plummets and you see this note moving within all the other notes, because it's got an x50 or now it would be x65.
no. this is not necessary and will be caught in modding. you don't have to make a rule for everything.
Last edited by ziin , edited 1 time in total.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
WTH not?


That just means you can't go slow, then fast, then immediately slow again.

There's no reason for this....

Unless you're going to add more, I'm going to consider your post as spam Ziin.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
it can go fast-slow-fast and viceversa, maybe it's better saying "no note must overlap because of slider velocity changes"
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Yes. That's what I mean. It's kind of difficult to find an example, because only so many maps have this where there is one stray note moving among all of the other notes. It's annoyingly hard to hit.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Those already get caught in the modding process anyways.
Taiko_old
Taiko_old
Rest Moments
Every specific Taiko diff. need to include rest moments. This means to avoid the use of constantly 1/4 notes and add some 1/1 moments.

This should be a guideline, not a rule in my humble opninion. I think that if a person wants to make a streamfeast - let him, why not? Especially if a mapper does not want to have 1/1 notes.

And I dislike this one as well -_-'

Finish Notes
- These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
- Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommended, to avoid overlapping).
Exeptions: Every stream that has "xxooxxooX" or harder patterns need to have a 1/2 space between stream and finish. That means using finishes on following streams were a climax sound is clearly hearable is allowed: "xxxxxxxx...xxxxO", "xxxxoooo...xxxxooooX"

I can understand not being able too se the note - mappers fault, but not being able to click the buttons - isn't it our own, players' fault?
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@TheVileOne: http://puu.sh/lZJ8
@Taiko: rest moments is mean to be have. You may have a part where is none, but not the whole song along.
Finish notes can't be hit in streams. Especially not nit in high bpms.
Oh need to go to school sorry. lol
Taiko_old
Taiko_old

OnosakiHito wrote:

@Taiko:
Finish notes can't be hit in streams.
That's not entirely correct^^, but it's ok, I get your point.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Yeah, not entirely, but really really hard and not recommendet because of that, to do so.
jossieP
1,875 posts
Joined May 2010
jossieP

OnosakiHito wrote:

Information: Circle Side and Approchal Rate have no effect in Taiko
Size?
Aproach?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Stickied this since it doesn't make sense to be down below with the individual standard rules threads right now.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@ikari_kyon: Sorry for that. After everything is finished, I will let this check by other people once again.
@Sakura Hana: Okay, thank you, I guess.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Finishes Note rule has been changed a bit again

  1. Finish Notes
    1. These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the notes colour and because they overlap the related notes. Under certain conditions and many discussion there may be made an exception for 1/4 end-hitfinishes.
    2. Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommended, to avoid overlapping).

Also I have some new infos for you guys.
This rules are going to be translated in the next days to chinese, japanese and I hope to korean too, to involve the asia community more into this, since they have many good opinions.

Further informations will coming.

Edit:

[Main thread]
English - t/72569 - OnosakiHito

[Translations]
中国(chinese) - t/80152 - wmfchris
日本(japanese) - t/73281 - Suzully
한국어(korean) - XXX - ???
Last edited by OnosakiHito , edited 1 time in total.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
Here're some translations from the Chinese taiko mappers.

ISHIDAMITSUNARI wrote:

一些看法 :

1. imo finish in the ending of BPM180 1/4 should be permitted.

2. Flashing kiai should be permitted unless they affect reading the notes

3. A clear-cut rule for 1/8 should be given, e.g. BPM140+ no 1/8; BPM120-140 no more that 1/8 5-plets, etc.

4. hitsound (whistle v clap) in editor is not that important and should be used to fit the song (i.e. some fit with whistle)

5. A clear range of SV should be set for different BPM as well.

6. custom skin is possible to appear in taiko gameplay so I don't think it's to be banned

sp3 wrote:

1. taiko BG should be required

2. Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4

3. Letterbox during breaks should be removed.

4. Flashy SB/Vid should be removed artificially.

Numbers wrote:

1. Difficulty setting: AR/CS shouldn't be unreasonbly low because that affects score multiplier.

2. imo 1/8 in BPM 105 or below is ok, and 1/6 should be ok for all time.

3. BPM multiplier should be restricted to like 1.5x, 0.75x, 0.5x, 2x, etc but not 0.8x, 0.95x,...

4. streams should not exist between two neighbouring sliders.

kpy wrote:

Being a player I oppose finishes on 1/4 1/6 1/8

climbb wrote:

1. I oppose finishes on 1/4 or above because hitting both keys is supposed to hit the finishes in osu! taiko (in ordinary ways of playing), they are only acceptable in very low BPM songs like BPM120 or below.

2. "playability" of 1/8 is hard to define but it doesn't need a clear banning, such conditions would be ideal for 1/8:

i) BPM140 or below; AND
ii) 1/8 is clearly auidable OR 1/8 has clear meaning in the song.

3. Video should not be artificially removed. If they affects gameplay they have the right to use no video but artificially removing video destroys the oppotunity for all players to watch the video in taiko gameplay.

Kanarin wrote:

If there's clear accent in the music, simple stream with finish at the end is acceptable for all BPM like ddddK
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
Flashing kiai is not allowed in standard, and shouldn't be in taiko either.

I agree with climbb regarding finishes: I'm all for forbidding finishes in streams altogether.

I'm fine with 1/8 under 150 BPM, but ONLY IF THERE CLEARLY IS 1/8 IN THE SONG.

Videos and SB shouldn't be removed for Taiko difficulties, they're part of the mapset after all.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
yes, we can refer some of them to the current solo rules stuff and I'll explain to them.
=========================
finishes on ending of 1/4: imo it's only ok at very low BPM (e.g. 110 or 120) + CLEAR accent in music + simple stream

1/8: yes, imo they are only ONLY if there're CLEAR 1/8 in the music

Taiko BG: imo this is more like a suggestion because there are many songs that fit for solo BG (some ex. from my maps http://osu.ppy.sh/s/25491 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24626 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/149947 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/79035)
=============================
some are worth discussion listed below:

  1. Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4
  2. Letterbox during breaks should be removed.
  3. Difficulty setting: AR/CS shouldn't be unreasonbly low because that affects score multiplier
  4. streams should not exist between two neighbouring sliders.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito

wmfchris wrote:

Here're some translations from the Chinese taiko mappers.

ISHIDAMITSUNARI wrote:

一些看法 :

1. imo finish in the ending of BPM180 1/4 should be permitted. Right now finish is on every BPM allowed as long as the notes dosen't overlap, too much.

2. Flashing kiai should be permitted unless they affect reading the notes This need to be discussed with more people. In my opinion it should never be allowed. Having some short kiai breaks which are some seconds long in fitting sections is okay.

3. A clear-cut rule for 1/8 should be given, e.g. BPM140+ no 1/8; BPM120-140 no more that 1/8 5-plets, etc. This need to be discussed more.

4. hitsound (whistle v clap) in editor is not that important and should be used to fit the song (i.e. some fit with whistle) This is just a recommended guideline. Using whistle is okay, but not recommended since clap = original kat.

5. A clear range of SV should be set for different BPM as well. Need to be discussed more.

6. custom skin is possible to appear in taiko gameplay so I don't think it's to be banned Right now it is premited. Just Custom-Hitbursts are not allowed.

sp3 wrote:

1. taiko BG should be required I will add this in the next update in Recommendations section for now.

2. Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4 Sounds resonable. Some discuss requiered.

3. Letterbox during breaks should be removed. To mention it in the guidelines should be enough.

4. Flashy SB/Vid should be removed artificially. This is hard to consider, people still can delete flashy SB's or use no-video. Further discussion coming.

Numbers wrote:

1. Difficulty setting: AR/CS shouldn't be unreasonbly low because that affects score multiplier. keep it as lvl 5 should be okay. But so or so we don't know the real affect of it.

2. imo 1/8 in BPM 105 or below is ok, and 1/6 should be ok for all time. On low BPM's 1/8 is okay. I forgot to mention it in the rules because of many changes.

3. BPM multiplier should be restricted to like 1.5x, 0.75x, 0.5x, 2x, etc but not 0.8x, 0.95x,... Need some discussion.

4. streams should not exist between two neighbouring sliders. At the moment the guidelines says the same. In some cases we may do it.

kpy wrote:

Being a player I oppose finishes on 1/4 1/6 1/8 Still on discussion. But most people seam to be fine with it(even aquabluu and Zekira)

climbb wrote:

1. I oppose finishes on 1/4 or above because hitting both keys is supposed to hit the finishes in osu! taiko (in ordinary ways of playing), they are only acceptable in very low BPM songs like BPM120 or below. Hitting them with both keys is an invalid reason if the finish is another colour as the stream (xxxxooooX)

2. "playability" of 1/8 is hard to define but it doesn't need a clear banning, such conditions would be ideal for 1/8:

i) BPM140 or below; AND
ii) 1/8 is clearly auidable OR 1/8 has clear meaning in the song. Need to be discussed more.

3. Video should not be artificially removed. If they affects gameplay they have the right to use no video but artificially removing video destroys the oppotunity for all players to watch the video in taiko gameplay. I agree. But as I said before this needs also some discussions and borders.

Kanarin wrote:

If there's clear accent in the music, simple stream with finish at the end is acceptable for all BPM like ddddK I agree.
Said discussion will be talked about with other taiko mappers.
Thank you chris! I will contact you guys for a new multi-talk soon.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
The thing is that Flashing kiai should never have been permitted on Standard either, it was on the old guidelines.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

wmfchris wrote:

Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4
This can be fixed with setting a new BPM at 1.5x. It's better to lie about the real BPM than to limit the map in any way.

wmfchris wrote:

Difficulty setting: AR/CS shouldn't be unreasonbly low because that affects score multiplier
I don't understand the reasoning for limiting AR/CS.

wmfchris wrote:

streams should not exist between two neighbouring sliders.
Sure.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

wmfchris wrote:

Don't use slider in maps with 1/3 music because slider = 1/4
Blatant lies.
Set the tick rate to 3 and your sliders will have triple rolls.
There should be a rule, 1/3 snap maps *must* use tick rate 3. x1.5 BPM is unrankable.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

mm201 wrote:

Blatant lies.
Set the tick rate to 3 and your sliders will have triple rolls.
There should be a rule, 1/3 snap maps *must* use tick rate 3. x1.5 BPM is unrankable.
Except for the dual time signature maps where you would have to use x1.5 BPM. If it's still "unrankable" then it's a terrible limitation and needs to be implemented for all modes of play.
aabc271
osu! Alumni
1,334 posts
Joined August 2009
aabc271
So, I guess I'll give some of my opinions to the rules ~

AR/CS settings : I'm fine with all settings as they don't affect the gameplay. Maybe we can let the mappers to choose their own AR/CS so that minor score adjustment becomes possible ? Because as I know, the score depends on the diff settings ~

1/4 finishes : imo 1/4 finishes at the end of stream are acceptable as they're not that hard to hit. Just don't put too many when the BPM is high. But still I won't use them in my maps because they look a bit visually untidy ( the finish stacks the previous note )

1/8 : This depends on the song. Avoid them when the BPM is quite high ( ~ 160 BPM. No exact value for ban needed imo. Just treat them case-by-case ? ). Don't make them long ( strongly suggest 5 as max ) and only place them when they really fit the song / necessary ~

Sliders in 1/3 songs : As I know, there's no method to control the frequency of hits in sliders. So I oppose using sliders in 1/3 songs as they are really hard to hit ( don't match the song and they sound off ). And yes, there should be a function to control the slider hit rate in Taiko :<

Video : Don't remove them. The reason is same for CBB. I fully agree with that ~

Kiai flashes : Maybe it's me, but I think as long as they don't distract the gameplay quite a lot, they should be allowed. I personally think that flashes can be parts of styles, and therefore they should not be banned for no reason. ( Maybe for those who oppose them, give me some reasons for that ? I don't think "solo diffs are banned from flashes so Taiko should be banned too" is a convincing reason to ban them. Taiko is just different from solo. Otherwise we won't have Taiko-only diffs, right ? )

SV changes ( BPM multipliers ) : For me, 0.5x to 1.2x are all fine. Anything lower than normal should be readable, and those higher should be possible to sightread and hit. I personally like to use multipliers of 1 digit ( eg 0.8x, 0.9x, 1.1x etc )

I may add more later. Can't think of much to write for now.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
^ Someone can't read.

ziin wrote:

Except for the dual time signature maps where you would have to use x1.5 BPM. If it's still "unrankable" then it's a terrible limitation and needs to be implemented for all modes of play.
I think an exception can be made in the case where it changes mid-song. This applies to all modes.
Remember to set your time signature to 6 (or 3 for 0.75) so that your barlines don't suck.
aabc271
osu! Alumni
1,334 posts
Joined August 2009
aabc271

mm201 wrote:

^ Someone can't read. I actually read that, but I didn't test if it works yet. So I just assume that there's no way to fix that. Sry sbout that
And yes, this is my 500th post ._.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
I don't understand the reasoning for limiting AR/CS.
In most of the taiko maps points per hit is 1100. If AR/CS is too low so that the difficulty rating decreases that will affect scores of taiko diff in which that difficulty rating may not fit the general difficulty of the diff.

In most case, unreasonably high won't affect the difficulty rating (unless it's extremely streamy then the points per hit goes to 1260), but too low AR/CS will make points per hit dropping to like 940 or even 780 which is a misfit with the diff.

mm201: wow I don't know that before lol. If it's available I think it's necessary to write that into rules.

===================

Numbers wrote:

The break time for very slow songs (like BPM120) could be half beat instead of 1.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
How about we remove slider ticks because they are bad.

Ever notice that it's near impossible to get a perfect start on them when a stream leads into them. ( I can give plenty of examples )

I don't understand why sliders can't just have a set amount of hits to them according to length, but you can hit them as fast as you want.

And thus this silly issue about 1/3 sliders would be fixed.

I miss unlimited sliders. >:
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Unlimited sldiers are so easily makroable. And why should you limit the amount of hits? Sliders would turn out to be like a spinner, just that you dont need to hit dkdkdkd but inputwhateveryouwant until you reached the limit.

There were several reasons when they got removed back then >:
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
I can think of a more tolerant algorithm than the current one for rolls but implementing it would be unfair to existing scores.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
You guys impllimented Hyper fruits, that was unfair to Ctb scores. =P
Jikson[m9]
177 posts
Joined March 2012
Jikson[m9]
Hitting them with both keys is an invalid reason if the finish is another colour as the stream (xxxxooooX)
For the considerable amount of two-finger-players like me, this matters. Players playing with specific techniques should not benefit from the rules-----Do you play a real drum with four sticks？
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@hknoboru: I played the original TnT and I play the TataCon on my PC. Personally I can hit them and other people would say the same or the controvers opinion.
So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.
Jikson[m9]
177 posts
Joined March 2012
Jikson[m9]
I consider it a drum simulatation game. Anyway as there exists such players we cant force them to give up fast afterstreamfinishes, this results in a general loss of score when compared to players playing with four fingers
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
I disagree with putting anything other than a k or d (small) after a stream (1/4 1/6 or 1/8). Anything like that looks ugly (ddddddddK looks unbelievably ugly, or sliders right after streams) and are usually unplayable (unless certain conditions...).
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
you can simply implement that new algorithm in newer ranked maps only (obviously ranked after the introduction, i know it could cause bugs anyway ) and in the autoplay.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
@HakuNoKaemi: That's something I have wanted to talk with mm201 about, since I discussed with some other known taiko mappers about this. Probably I will send him a PM soon, because he has much to do.

Edit: Got mm201 answer about this. Further informations are coming.

Edit2: @v: Oh I see now what HakuNoKaemi, ment. lol
Last edited by OnosakiHito , edited 1 time in total.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
I'm not changing the slider judgement algorithm.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

OnosakiHito wrote:

@hknoboru: I played the original TnT and I play the TataCon on my PC. Personally I can hit them and other people would say the same or the controvers opinion.
So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.
just because you can hit them doesn't mean everyone can.

If we are looking at this realisticly a taiko drum should never be hit like that.

And besides, if you hit the middle of the drum it resembles a both side hit sometimes? I was told this by players before.

Odaril wrote:

I disagree with putting anything other than a k or d (small) after a stream (1/4 1/6 or 1/8). Anything like that looks ugly (ddddddddK looks unbelievably ugly, or sliders right after streams) and are usually unplayable (unless certain conditions...).
Are you saying what the notes look like counts towards how good/bad the map is?
lol
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Mh, I said that a bit awkward, huh?
I have the same thought as you MMzz, that's why I said to hknoboru ,,So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.".
This should mean like ,,My opinion, or other people opinions, what is possible with drum or not is pretty invalid, so let's move to the question..."

Yes, I thought about this, tbh, too. BUt never testet it. Will do that soon. lol


About 1/4 finishes, there will be probably no big changes anymore since this has been really often dicussed before and most people seams fine with them when they are just on easy streams (xxxxxxxxO/xxxxooooX)
I will make soon a more understandable rule about finishes.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

OnosakiHito wrote:

Mh, I said that a bit awkward, huh?
I have the same thought as you MMzz, that's why I said to hknoboru ,,So let's move to the question ,,what we are playing with"? Since this a keyboard based game which can be played with 4 keys this allegation is a bit wobbly.".
This should mean like ,,My opinion, or other people opinions, what is possible with drum or not is pretty invalid, so let's move to the question..."

Yes, I thought about this, tbh, too. BUt never testet it. Will do that soon. lol


About 1/4 finishes, there will be probably no big changes anymore since this has been really often dicussed before and most people seams fine with them when they are just on easy streams (xxxxxxxxO/xxxxooooX)
I will make soon a more understandable rule about finishes.
Well whenever I'm in the situation where oooooooO (or viseversa) appears I usually just cut the note before the finisher. ooooooo O
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
I agree with MMzz in the sense that this is a drum visualization.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Sure, I agree.
So or so at the moment finish streams like ooooooooO are not allowed.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
I talked yesterday to someone who had a really good opinion about those rules.
And one big importand topic was how they are written down. Too much informations and things which dosen't need to be mentioned in rules are written down as ziin said before, too. And I agreed with it, so I made a draft for now to show it to you guys.

Reason is pretty easy. Obviously things dosen't need to be mentioned, this would be more like an mapping guide then. Also the obviously things can be mentioned as mods in the maps itself. Tell me if something is still too long or you have an opinion about this, please.

Here you have the short version of he rules for now:

SPOILER
Taiko Rankability Rules and Guidelines (Short and clear version)

Rules - You may not break these ever

  1. Diff. Name
    Discourage diff. names are not allowed.
  1. Difficulty Settings and Song Setup
    Overall Difficulty and HP Drain Rate: 4~7
    OD and HP in marathon-kind maps: 1~4
    (Circle Size and Aproach Rate have no effect in Taiko)
  1. Countdown
    Don't use countdown on a taiko specific map. If the notes start too quickly, add a lead-in time.
  1. Finish Notes
    Not allowed to use at the beginning or in the middle of a stream.
    End of stream is allowed in following cases: xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX
  1. Kiai Time
    Use the kiai time just in the choruses of a song. Do not use short "flashes" of kiai like you might use in an osu! standard map.
  1. Rest Moments
    Every specific Taiko diff. need to include rest moments. This means to avoid the use of constantly 1/4 notes and add some 1/1 moments.
  1. Custom Hitbursts
    It is not allowed to assign custom hitbursts to a taiko map.

Guidelines - Under special circumstances these may be broken

  1. Slider Velocity
    The Slider Velocitys, 1.40 and 1.60 must be used.
  1. Note Streams
    For the majority of maps, only 1/1, 1/2 or 1/4 beat note streams should be used. 1/3 and 1/6 should be added only when there's a similiar beat in the musik while 1/8 is generaly forbidden.
    Information: Adding own 1/3 or 1/6 into the map is just recommended for experienced mappers.
    Below is a visual example of 4 notes in a 1/6 under 1.4 slider velocity:
  1. BPM Changes
    Unnecessary BPM changes are not allowed unless the song has a relatively low BPM.
    Overlapping notes are not allowed, too, unless the song has a suitable changing BPM part for this with no complex streams.
    When changing BPM it is advisable to use the method or fixing it with useing a series of slowing slider velocity sections:


    Note in the example above that multiple slider velocities are used to show a visual slowdown of notes, without the 0.5 section being "overlapped" by the final note preceding it.
  1. Drumrolls(Sliders)
    Use sparingly within a map and keep a 1/2 beat space between them and any other object.
    Try not to put sliders one after each other - 2 or 3 in a row may be acceptable in some cases.
    Don't use sliders for 125 BPM songs or lower since it gives 1/8 rills, and probably most songs dosen't contain 1/8 beats.
    Not suggested to use them in quite sections because slider = 1/4 streams
  1. Spinner
    Leave at least a 1/2 beat between a note and a spinner. Using them on 1/4, 1/6 or 1/8 streams may be okay.
    Short spinners are not recommended because it's loud and distracts players.
  1. Breaks
    Break sections are not allowed and should be artificially removed from .osu.
  1. Custom Hitsounds and Volume
    Don't use them in taiko specific maps. Keep volume at a consistent level (e.g. 80%) in keeping with the song throughout all timing sections, with the beat still somewhat audible.
    The generel audio use is be ,,Normal".

Recommendations - These are recommended but not fully necessary

  1. Custom combo colours
    Custom combo colours do not really matter to taiko as they will be overridden in actual gameplay. The case is the same with combo numbering, but you may wish to use the numbering to mark out red/blue notes visually within edit mode (assuming no custom colours have been set), this would make modding for other people easier and could make mapping easier:
  1. Reasonable hitobject-placement
    Hitobject placements dosen't really matter to taiko, too, since the hitcircles are automatically converted into the one and only x-axis, but you may wish to use it in an organized way:
Last edited by OnosakiHito , edited 1 time in total.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
I think the short version is clear and good enough to be handed in as 1.0 version.
From now on I suggest to let this rules live and develop on its own (like they do in standard mode)

If it turns out that there are apparent needs for adjustments, they can be assigned later on.
Anything else that could be disturbing in a song is song-specified in most cases and don't need to be generalized in a rule or guideline.

This rules shouldn't replace the modding process, so with THIS we have some compendium of what is a "no-go" EVERYWHERE. When something on a specific taiko map turns out to be 'eww' even if it's not forbidden, mod it out of it.
Same method gets used in standard mode. So we can do the same.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
^ Agree.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
OD/HP of marathon diffs: 1~4
=>

HP of marathon diffs: 1~5 depends on length and # of notes in the song.
You didn't add "Tick rate 3 for 1/3 songs only" as well.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
After revising the whole short edition with wmfchris once again, I've shortened and focused the rules once more. Also I moved some guidelines to recommendations, shortened stuff and moved rules within guidelines to rules and such stuff. Awaiting your everyone's approval

Taiko Mapping Rules and Guidelines

Rules - You may not break these ever

  1. Difficulty names
    Difficulty names must be taiko specific, but don't need to contain it's difficulty rating self (e.g. Taiko, Taiko Oni, Taiko Muzukashii). Guest difficulties may contain the mapper's name.
  1. Difficulty settings and song setup
    Overall difficulty and HP drain rate should be between 4~7.
    Exception: Maps exceeding usual draining time should have a life drain between 1~4 depending on length and numbers of notes
  1. Countdown
    Don't use countdown. If the notes start too quickly, add a lead-in time.
  1. Finish notes
    Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream.
    At the end, finish streams may allowed under following pattern constellations:
    xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX
  1. Kiai Time
    Only use the kiai time in the chorus of a song. Do not use short kiai "flashes".
  1. Rest moments
    Every difficulty needs to include rest moments. This means to avoid the use of constantly 1/4 notes and add some 1/1 moments.
  1. Overlapping notes
    Notes must not overlap due to slider velocity changes (green lines). BPM changes (red lines) are excluded from this rule.
  1. Custom hitbursts and hitsounds
    You must not use custom hitbursts and hitsounds.

Guidelines - Under special circumstances these may be broken
  1. Slider Velocity
    The Slider Velocity should be 1.40 or 1.60.
  1. Streams
    For the majority of maps, only 1/1, 1/2 or 1/4 beat note streams should be used. 1/3 and 1/6 should be added only when there's a similiar beat in the music.
    Avoid using 1/8 streams by any circumstance.
  1. Drumrolls(Sliders)
    Use sparingly within a map and keep a 1/2 beat space between them and any other object.
    Try not to put sliders one after each other.
    Avoid using sliders for 125 BPM songs or lower.
    Use a tick rate of 3 if the song self is snapped on 1/3.
  1. Spinner
    Leave at least a 1/2 beat between a note and a spinner. Using them on streams may be okay.
    Short spinners are not recommended.
  1. Breaks
    All break sections should be artificially removed from the .osu file.
  1. Custom Hitsound Volume
    Keep volume at a constant level (e.g. 80%) with the beat still somewhat audible.
    Use the "Normal" audio sample set.

Recommendations - These are recommended but not fully necessary

  1. Custom combo colours
    Custom combo colours do not really matter to taiko as they will be overwritten in actual gameplay. The case is the same with combo numbering, but you may wish to use the numbering to mark out red/blue notes visually within edit mode (assuming no custom colours have been set), this would make modding for other people easier and could make mapping easier:
  1. Reasonable hitobject-placement
    Hitobject placements dosen't really matter to taiko, too, since the hitcircles are automatically converted into the one and only x-axis, but you may wish to use it in an organized way:
    PICTURE
  1. Custom 1/3 and 1/6 streams Adding own 1/3 or 1/6 into the map is just recommended for experienced mappers.
    Below is a visual example of 4 notes in a 1/6 under 1.4 slider velocity:
Last edited by Loctav , edited 1 time in total.
Jikson[m9]
177 posts
Joined March 2012
Jikson[m9]
I still don't think xxxxxxxxO should be specially permitted
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
What makes it different from xxxxooooX ?
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
well, why not xxxxxxxxX ? (theoretically easier than the xO type)
you could permit Oxxx / Xooo (as long it play much much much good and direct, ) they could "have sense" but being difficult to play if not intuitive, you should pretty much say to try to use it if their using have sense )
The xoxoxoxoX could be allowed. But yeah, if people use them they should pretty much have sense.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
No it's not easier, because you'd have to press the same key twice in a row in a stream.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
We discussed the variations of finish streams at the end/beginning/inbetween several times and we came to the conclusion, that the finish streams should only be allowed at this kind of patterns.
We cleary deny same coloured finishes, because you have to play (for me as example) sdsdsd(sd) - (or for default settings: djdjdjdj(DJ))
Try to imagine that you stream on standard with two keys and then have to hit the last note with both keys.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
The thing with different colored finishes is that you have to hit them with different keys than you were streaming with, so they are easier to hit.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Loctav said everything.
This has been dicussed many times and ,,xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX" is the absolut final decision.
No ...xoxO or anything else.

Also who don't like them, don't need to map them. Everything is moding based.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
I think you should add into the Finish Note section that finishers should be used WHEN THERE IS A FINISHER SOUND IN THE SONG (Cymbols and stuff)

I've been seeing a lot of random finishers these days.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav

MMzz wrote:

I think you should add into the Finish Note section that finishers should be used WHEN THERE IS A FINISHER SOUND IN THE SONG (Cymbols and stuff)

I've been seeing a lot of random finishers these days.
We don't need to add to the rules that hitobjects need to fit the music. (which also means that finishers should only be placed where it fits)
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Different versions has been posted into the first post.
Taiko_BG case will be also added to Recommendation.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Just curious, what is the maximum draining time for a Taiko difficulty to be ranked, and not approved.
Does it follow the same time set in the rules for standard?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

NoHitter wrote:

Just curious, what is the maximum draining time for a Taiko difficulty to be ranked, and not approved.
Does it follow the same time set in the rules for standard?
Probably should, albeit authentic TnT rarely ever goes over 2 mins (if ever) but we have a lot of ranked long Taiko maps so i guess we could just put the same limit for Taiko maps.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
There are some cases though with 4:30+ minute songs.
They are mapped with breaks such that the standard difficulties are under 4:30 min draining time.

If there is a Taiko, then the mapset would have to be approved just for the Taiko diff due to Taiko not having breaks.
Perhaps some leeway should be allowed for cases like this?
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Since Taiko does not really affects whether the mapset is approved or ranked, Currently it depends on draining time of standard maps.
(But if we have to make the limitation for Taiko maps, limit of draining time should be longer than 4:30, I think. Yeah. We don't have many breaks in our maps.)

And I'd rather say avoid using breaks unless the song is really long or mood of the part of the song is suit well with no notes. I don't like disallowing something, usually.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Set it to 5 minutes or the same total length of the corresponding standard diffs.
Yes, we don't use breaks as far as possible, but they are not required, since we don't need to rearrange ourselves like in standard (where the pen starts to glide out of the hand or the desk starts to end while playing with mouse)
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris

NoHitter wrote:

Just curious, what is the maximum draining time for a Taiko difficulty to be ranked, and not approved.
Does it follow the same time set in the rules for standard?
I guess so. The only problem is like in solo diffs 4:30 of draining time + breaks may last like 5 minutes, while taiko diff may fill up those breaks making the draining time exceeds 4:30.

In this sense I'll suggest 5:00 as the max draining time (well, Taiko mode has no "draining" lol)
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
How about leaving it how it is? Since this wasn't never a problem or issue before.
Rei Hakurei
1,983 posts
Joined February 2011
Rei Hakurei
hmmm
Finish notes must not be in the middle or at the beginning in a 1/4 or above stream.
At the end, finish streams may allowed under following pattern constellations:
xxxxxxxxO, xxxxooooX, xxooxxooX
it means finish note allowed in short stream like oX or ooX as long the finish note alternates with the previous note ?

also how long the longest stream are allowed in taiko?

thanks ^^
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
I would not suggest using finishes in triplets.
Also there is no limit to stream length, but your map needs this resting moments - regardless of this, streams need to fit the song and only-stream maps are stupid in most cases and modders will request modifications like splitting it up.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Edit: One of the known bugs appeard in the diff.. All timelines are gone, this will be fix'd soon as possible.
I have some news for you guys:

I talked to mm201 for permission to upload and rank on the second osu server some maps which are related to the rule discussion to see how people react to some cases like for example "1/4 finish streams".
Here you can find the map: http://ha.ppy.sh/s/180
To have acess on the server, you need to open ,,osume.exe" and tick ,,use test build".
Note that just people with supporter tag are able to start it.

Test the maps and give us your opinion about the severel cases(if you have some).

Information about the maps and what they contain:
Taiko Oni: 1/4 stream finishes, ooX, spinners after stream, spinner/slider two times in a row, SV changes, overlapping by SV change
Taiko Inner Oni: 1/4 stream finishes, extrem SV changes, 1/6 notes, overlapping by SV change
Taiko Ura Oni: Extrem SV changes, 1/6 notes, high OD and HP

Note: Futsuu, Kantan and Muzukashii included to have a full Taiko no Tatsujin map-set.
matthewhln
247 posts
Joined March 2010
matthewhln
OK, Chris is too lazy, so I rather paste my opinion here myself

Taiko diff name
I think "Taiko" must included in the difficult name to identify...

Some name like "Jubiko" is kind of confusing, that some people may not know that it is a combined name (taiko and jubeat)
which may cause them selecting the wrong difficulty (most likely the solo players)

But something like "Taikosaki" or "Taiko extra" can state very clearly it is a taiko difficult.

However, to keep mapper creative on the map name, this should better be placed in Guidelines instead of Rules, and judge by the modder and the mapper of that map


Deleting StoryBoard?
I think it is not nessasary to add this rule/guideline

Since it will need the coorperation between the mapper and the taiko guest mapper

Also the rules/guidelines are specify on the behavior of taiko mapper, it should not give the limit to the original mapper.
(There is no this kind of rule/guideline yet)


1/4 streams' big circle placement
I think there should be none of exception because of pattern (I don't oppose exception on BPM)

As firce said (lazy chris have not put it here yet),
it may not be fair to some player in their style (between using 2 fingers and 4 fingers)
for 2 fingers player, they may be harder the hit the big circle at the last note in "xxxxxxxxO" than 4 fingers player

Also, as Chris said,
「Same side should not be continuously hit in 1/4 stream」(he state that in Chinese ver post)
if Same side have been continuously hit in 1/4 stream, then it will be 1/8 (1/4 with single hand = 1/8 with both hands)

so the exception of "xxxxxxxxO" is not reasonable enough.
However, I will not exclude the possibility of making it into the guideline although it may not be the best way
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Sorry but - I didn't understand what I just read.
My apologizes but I don't get your stuff in any single way.
I guess I have to ask Wmf on my own >_>
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,846 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
I understand your points matthe. @Loctav you can ask me. lol

diff names
Hey, the rules has been also changed in meaning, that's not good. I support what you said matthe since that was what I wrote down before and will also look through all rules to avoid such cases again.
(Yes, I didn't had a brief look through it after chris and loctav changed it for better understanding, sorry)

1/4 finishes
As I said before, ooooooooO is not allowed and I will also not change the rule anymore since this has been discussed now many years.
First reason not to take it was ,,it's not authentic", then the reason was ,,unplayable".
Both cases dosen't fit anymore nowadays, but the rules has been still made by considering this.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris
My explaination is like
Instead of "you hit with the same finger consecutively" we could consider the drums in which "the same side of the drum is hit consecutively": the case "hit with the same finger/hand but different side of instrument" is common in sth like drum set while "hitting the same side of the instrument consecutively" is a bit odd.
Cristian
1,945 posts
Joined November 2009
Cristian
oh, god so many information makes my mind blow out of it, im gona try to keep it on it <_<
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
235 / 452
/