1. Easy Easy - 4Key (1.33 stars, 346 notes)
2. Hard Hard - 4Key (3.52 stars, 1108 notes)
3. Koi Koi - 4Key (4.7 stars, 1488 notes)
4. Normal Normal - 4Key (2.21 stars, 716 notes)

1. 문제없음

1. 대부분의 공간을 차지하고 있는 5 0.5 1 변속은 사실 평균값이 1.0625이며 0.5 대신에 0.43을 넣는다면 평균값 1에 최대한 가깝게 넣을수 있습니다. 이것은 오직 참고용이며 꼭 이렇게 바꾸라는 말은 아닙니다
2. 00:26:483 - ~ 00:27:574 - 변속 추가 바랍니다. 변속의 느낌을 살리기 좋은 부분으로 보입니다. 혹시 어떻게 넣어야할지 모르시겠다면 도움 드릴수 있습니다.
3. 00:28:665 - ~ 00:29:211 - 역시 변속 넣기 좋은 부분입니다 5 0.5 1 변속을 4 0.71 1 형태로 바꾸어 넣으면 될듯하네요 넣으실때는 00:30:847 - 은 음이 작게 들리니 좀더 약한 변속을 넣는 등 고려해서 넣어주세요
4. 부분부분 변속으로 느낌을 살릴수 있을만한 부분이 많이들 보이는데, 중간 변속이 별로 없는 부분을 연속적으로 들어가며 변속을 넣을 부분을 찾아내고 이걸 어떻게 살릴지 상상하는 작업을 해주세요.
5. 00:57:029 (57029|1,57029|3,57029|0,57165|2,57302|3,57302|0,57438|2,57574|0,57574|3,57711|1,57847|3,57847|0,57915|2,57983|0,57983|1,58120|3,58120|2,58256|1,58392|3,58392|2,58529|1,58665|3,58665|0,58802|2,58938|3,58938|0,59006|1,59074|3,59074|2,59211|0,59211|1,59347|2,59483|1,59483|0,59620|2,59756|0,59756|3,59892|1,60029|2,60029|3,60097|0,60165|2,60165|1,60302|3,60302|0,60438|2,60574|0,60574|3,60711|2,60847|0,60847|1,60983|3,61120|0,61120|1,61188|2,61256|0,61256|3,61392|2,61392|1) - 급격히 어려워지는 난이도.. 구멍롱놋이 좀 갑작스러운 면이 있네요 좀 쉬웠다면 몰라도 어려워서 더욱이.

Mentholzzz wrote:

Halo Halo, random random mod mod because because LN LN + SV SV is is kool kool

Koi Koi
00:00:983 - I notice that the SV here isn't on 1/16 line, it should be at 00:01:000 - instead of 00:00:998 - It's not 1/16 snap of course,
My SV equation is here
a+b=1120-983=137
5a+0.5b=137
a=15.2222
b=121.7778so 5.0x is 983+15.2222=998.2222 actually
00:09:574 - you can add triple here but its up to you, but add at 00:09:847 - too if u add the first one It has not any sound except drum thing, so I wanna just double
00:14:347 (14347|0) - move to col.1 , same sound as 00:14:074 (14074|1) - nice suggestion, but I love current state :/
00:30:438 - maybe add triple here? , im kinda confused with here lol It's not that really heavy compared with 00:30:029 - so I just :V
01:19:938 - maybe hand here for a crash ? nice suggstion, added
01:27:711 - double here for drum I agree with you

Hard Hard
maybe add some light SV in this diff since the hardest diff is kinda sv hellish
00:18:847 - Maybe put a hand here for a crash yeah you r right
00:20:756 - Double changed a little bit
00:27:574 - this part is actually a big gap between this diff and Koi Koi, since this is rolly pattern + jump but Koi Koi is Chord with lot of stack. I suggest to make this part a bit harder by move some stream to make it a bit trill-y, like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9357641 your suggestion is reasonable,
but I don't think it has a lot gap so keep this, I'll consider it when another modder say about it
00:34:529 - add a note here and 00:34:597 - I wanna emphasis only heavy drum sound for this so skip some mini sound like 00:33:983 -
00:57:029 - this part is also another big gap, overlapped 1/2 stream and full inverse, maybe add jump like at 00:57:029 - , 00:57:302 - and 00:58:120 - and so on, that drum sound idk what it name >_> actually first and second dense(note quantity) are same, I just scale-up this LN at hard and koi also, yeah looks it has big gap but I think it's fine
01:04:392 (64392|2) - put this as LN for vocal ? checked when I look 00:20:756 -
01:05:347 (65347|1,65620|2) - ^ ^
01:36:233 - add a note here c h a n g e d

Normal Normal
00:31:665 - double here ? I don't make this drum sound double
00:48:302 - maybe add double at every 4/1 here concept for this part :3
00:57:029 - ^ I realized it is same with first part so changed a little bit, hey but not about double hehe
01:16:938 (76938|3) - move to 2 you r right
01:37:120 (97120|1) - maybe change to double at 1 and 4 ? good suggestion!

Easy Easy
00:33:029 (33029|3) - move to 2 for hand balance oki doki
00:49:392 (49392|0,49665|1,49938|0,50211|1,50483|3,50756|2,51029|3,51302|2) - I don't think this is fine for Easy, maybe vtrl-H 00:49:665 (49665|1,50211|1,50756|2,51302|2) - hey but it's just 1/1 LN
01:04:938 (64938|0,65211|0) - move the first note to col.2 , not necessary to put in the same column. intended spike at easy chart
01:37:120 - move to other column I love this ending

Good Good Luck Luck nice nice map map

Hydria wrote:

Koi Koi

00:57:029 - to 01:01:392 - is undermapped, there's 1/4 sounds here:
00:58:188 - 00:58:324 - 00:58:461 - 00:58:597 - 00:59:279 - 00:59:415 - 00:59:552 - 00:59:688 - 00:59:824 - 01:00:370 - 01:00:506 - 01:00:642 - 01:00:779 - 01:00:915 -
there are not 1/2 sounds here:
00:58:256 - 00:58:529 - 00:59:347 - 00:59:620 - 01:00:438 - 01:00:711 -
It's same density with 00:48:302 - 00:52:665 - , I just make this to stretch it up yeah so I wanna make inversed ln to express blended vocal chaos :/:/ I'll check about this

i'd view that entire point as just one big thing btw

also that's all i'll throw stars at ur face soon i wanna see this ranked

Lastopia wrote:

Lasopia's Lasopia's Speed Speed Changing Changing Noodles Noodles Mod Mod
NM NM from from Unknown Unknown Place Place

[General General]

1. 문제없음

[Koi Koi]

1. 대부분의 공간을 차지하고 있는 5 0.5 1 변속은 사실 평균값이 1.0625이며 0.5 대신에 0.43을 넣는다면 평균값 1에 최대한 가깝게 넣을수 있습니다. 이것은 오직 참고용이며 꼭 이렇게 바꾸라는 말은 아닙니다 예시로 한 부분을 보여드리자면, 00:00:983 - 00:01:120 -
   a+b=1120-983=137
   5a+0.5b=137
   a=15.2222
   b=121.7778소숫점 5자리에서 반올림했습니다. 실제 식에 넣을 경우 a+b=137, 5a+0.5b=136.9999 결국 0.99999927..배속으로 보이게 되는데, 이는 1배와 거의 같다고 볼 수 있으니 저는 문제 없다고 생각합니다.
2. 00:26:483 - ~ 00:27:574 - 변속 추가 바랍니다. 변속의 느낌을 살리기 좋은 부분으로 보입니다. 혹시 어떻게 넣어야할지 모르시겠다면 도움 드릴수 있습니다. 구조 상 스트림 부분에서는 일부러 변속을 넣지 않았습니다. 한 번 생각해 볼게용
3. 00:28:665 - ~ 00:29:211 - 역시 변속 넣기 좋은 부분입니다 5 0.5 1 변속을 4 0.71 1 형태로 바꾸어 넣으면 될듯하네요 넣으실때는 00:30:847 - 은 음이 작게 들리니 좀더 약한 변속을 넣는 등 고려해서 넣어주세요 마찬가지로 고려해 보고 작업하겠습니다
4. 부분부분 변속으로 느낌을 살릴수 있을만한 부분이 많이들 보이는데, 중간 변속이 별로 없는 부분을 연속적으로 들어가며 변속을 넣을 부분을 찾아내고 이걸 어떻게 살릴지 상상하는 작업을 해주세요. :ok_hand:
5. 00:57:029 (57029|1,57029|3,57029|0,57165|2,57302|3,57302|0,57438|2,57574|0,57574|3,57711|1,57847|3,57847|0,57915|2,57983|0,57983|1,58120|3,58120|2,58256|1,58392|3,58392|2,58529|1,58665|3,58665|0,58802|2,58938|3,58938|0,59006|1,59074|3,59074|2,59211|0,59211|1,59347|2,59483|1,59483|0,59620|2,59756|0,59756|3,59892|1,60029|2,60029|3,60097|0,60165|2,60165|1,60302|3,60302|0,60438|2,60574|0,60574|3,60711|2,60847|0,60847|1,60983|3,61120|0,61120|1,61188|2,61256|0,61256|3,61392|2,61392|1) - 급격히 어려워지는 난이도.. 구멍롱놋이 좀 갑작스러운 면이 있네요 좀 쉬웠다면 몰라도 어려워서 더욱이. 실제 구조를 보면, 00:45:029 - 00:53:756 - , 00:53:756 - 01:02:483 - 이 두 파트가 같은 밀도를 가지고 있습니다. 단순히 후반 파트에서 처음과 달리 멜로디와 보컬이 강하게 섞이는 느낌을 표현하기 위해 구멍롱놋으로 표현하였습니다. 치는 구조는 같으니 그렇게 어렵진 않다고 생각해요

아쉽게도 저는 롱놋을 다룰줄 몰라 패턴부분은 모딩을 못해드렸습니다..
롱놋을 컨셉으로 잡은 맵과 이런 변속맵이 적은 랭맵의 세계에서 이 맵이 랭크준비라면 저는 좋네요
행운을 빕니다

마음같아선 풀모딩을 해드리고 싶었지만 막상 열어보니 엄두가 안납니다. 이점 죄송ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ합니다

그래도 혹시 다른 난이도 모딩이 필요하시다면 불러주세요

Jungdongjin wrote:

안녕 모딩하러 왔오

HardHard

여기 빨간거 칠한부분 3성 난이도에 비해서 치기어려운 패턴임 곡 구조상 반복이니까 어울리게 찍은거같은데

bpm이 빨라서 초보자들이 처리하기 힘들거임 여러분들은 할 수 있습니다!!



빨간부분은 느낌을 뭘살린건지 알겠음 근데 오른쪽에 있는노트를 계단식으로 치기쉽게 한거같은데 파랗게 칠한부분 2번째 롱노트랑 저게 눈이 꼬이기가 쉬움 그래서 저거 형광칠한부분 Ctrl+H 해서 넣으면 단노트+롱노트 치는거라 보기 편함 Oki doki

koi koi는 전체적으로 치기 쉽도록 배치한게 보여서 풀롱놋치고 패턴이 쉬운편임 힘내

BrokenGale wrote:

I am not sure how to play LNs or properly map them so here goes nothing.

Lanes 1|2|3|4

Koi Koi

00:03:302 - Consider adding a 1/4th triplet here if you think the percussion needs to be mapped. already mapped percussion with ln
00:09:574 - Consider delaying one of the notes in the double by 1/8th or 1/16ths heavy drum sound, so I just make a rice. and wanna add some sv
00:09:847 - ^
00:10:120 - ^
00:10:802 - Consider changing the note one lane |3| into a 1/4 long note maybe you didn't check my sv thing. 1/4 ln is good idea but I emphasis the moment of silence between 00:10:802 - 00:10:938 -
00:11:074 - ^
00:12:983 - Consider changing the note one lane |2| into a 1/4 long note
00:13:256 - ^
00:17:347 - Consider shortening the notes on lanes |3|4| because they don't sound like 1/4th long notes. intended, I'll consider it
00:17:620 - ^
00:18:302 - Consider changing the notes on lanes |3| or |4| into 1/2 holds if you want to map the reverb I don't have an evidence that I should do this, so keep this
00:18:574 - ^
00:19:529 - Consider changing the note one lane |2| into a 1/4 long note actually same issue you told above
00:19:802 - ^
00:21:711 - Consider changing the note one lane |3| into a 1/4 long note this too
00:21:983 - ^
00:26:142 - Consider shortening the notes on lanes |1|2| because they don't sound like 1/4th long notes. also
00:26:347 - ^
00:27:233 - Unmapped sound actually I focus on heavy drum sound at this part
00:27:779 - ^
00:29:961 - ^
00:30:506 - ^
00:31:188 - ^
00:31:461 - ^
00:32:142 - ^
00:33:233 - ^
00:35:142 - ^
00:41:961 - ^
00:42:097 - ^
00:43:052 - ^
00:43:870 - ^ I know what you say, but I wanna keep this. only for heavy drum sound yeah
00:46:120 - Consider changing the notes on lanes |3| or |4| into 1/2 holds if you want to map the reverb
Insert unreadable LNs (for me) here readable :p and emphasis sv
01:05:483 - 01:05:892 - Why is there empty space when the lyrics stretch through here? I don't make this pattern to use vocal, it is just melody
01:10:665 - Consider changing the notes on lanes |3| or |4| into 1/2 holds if you want to map the reverb same thing
01:10:938 - ^
01:14:074 - 01:14:211 - Why is there empty space when the lyrics stretch through here? same thing
01:14:347 - 01:14:483 - ^
01:28:120 (88120|2,88120|3) - 01:28:120 (88120|2,88256|3)
01:28:392 - ^

FadillSan wrote:

Hello~
NM req from my queue~

Nor Nor mal mal

00:00:847 (847|1) - move to 1 cuz I follow the vocal, exactly same sound
00:02:892 - add note If I should add one note, not here cuz it's just semi drum but 00:02:688 - or 00:02:961 - that has main melody. but it's normal diff so I didn't put anything more
00:05:074 - add note same issue with above
01:21:574 (81574|0) - make it double I use only single note for this drum like 01:22:665 (82665|1) - , you can check it
01:23:756 (83756|3) - ^ same
01:30:165 - add note oh I missed this, thx
01:30:302 (90302|3) - make it doule same issue
01:32:483 (92483|0) - ^ ^
01:36:983 - add LN till next notenice suggestion!

Hope that's help :3
Good Luck~

SyShawn wrote:

from my Q

just think it's beyond my imagination
great SVs and the star symtem really underrate this so that i can't play 3*

General

It's noodles from an anime

just a boring problem

Normal Normal

00:45:847 (45847|3) - hitsound W is in easy but not in normal nice point!

Niks wrote:

괜찮으시면 오프셋 315로 설정해주세요

Litharrale wrote:

if you can prove to me that its possible to 99% the top diff, ill rank this

Wonki wrote:

수학이여~

Otakujanai wrote:

Hello Garalulu!

Although overall structure seems great but since SVs are bit questionable, I decided to put some random suggestions here.
I agree that everyone can get different feelings from same sound and can express with different SV styles, but your SVs don't match with music since it seem to be too strong. I think it fits what this music wanna express like chaos so not too strong I tho.

1. x = 5.00, y = 0.50 (Real length : 137ms)

Why are SVs at 00:00:983 - // 00:01:392 - // 00:02:483 - // 00:10:120 - are all the same?
SV at 00:00:983 - is for vocal, 00:01:392 - is for background piano sound which lasts longer than 00:02:483 - and new part (only instrumental) is starting at 00:10:120 - and you used all the same SVs (If I guessed right)

Also, in my opinion 5.0x is not a value we use for ordinary sounds (which is usually considered as teleportation SVs), and there does not exist strong sounds at the starting section of this map.

So what I recommend is,

Using smooth/weak effects for sounds like 00:01:392 -

00:01:392 - 2.7x / 00:01:409 - 1.6x / 00:01:427 - 1.0x / 00:01:444 - 0.7x / 00:01:461 - 0.5x / 00:01:529 - 1.0x

and use shorter (n bit stronger) effects for sounds like 00:02:483 -

00:02:483 - 3.0x / 00:02:500 - 1.4x / 00:02:517 - 0.6x / 00:02:620 - 1.0x

00:09:574 - to 00:10:103 - seems to be fine since drum sounds are short and strong, (fine to keep 5.0x / 0.5x SV for these sounds)
but I don't agree with 00:00:983 - those vocal sounds should be expressed with same intensity of SVs that are used for drum sounds.

Maybe 00:00:983 - 3.8x / 00:01:017 - 0.6x / 00:01:120 - 1.0x would feel better. (or you could just put same effect that is used 00:02:483 - here)

Or you could make average scroll speed to 0.9x for starting section since sounds are weaker than other parts.
Average SVs are regulated to be 0.9x
00:01:392 - 2.5x / 00:01:409 - 1.4x / 00:01:427 - 0.9x / 00:01:444 - 0.6x / 00:01:461 - 0.45x / 00:01:529 - 0.9x
00:02:483 - 2.5x / 00:02:500 - 1.1x / 00:02:517 - 0.6x / 00:02:620 - 0.9x
00:00:983 - 3.35x / 00:01:017 - 0.55x / 00:01:120 - 0.9x

Also I'm not sure about putting another SVs 00:05:415 - here or seperate LN cuz lyrics are ko ko r- ko ko r-o wa~
I won't make similar suggestions for 00:10:120 - and other parts since you have enough skills to handle it, but I hope you also make other parts smoother. (not for drum sounds they are fine)

What I want to show is repetitive sound structure like the broken old tapes, not the instrument or vocal's sence of dynamics. The music is composed of piece of sound(not just vocal or drum, the music 'renai circulation') and expressed like defective jukebox. so I use same sv at all of what I want to add, You maybe have feeling of sv in mind, but it's just my concept yeah I don't wanna use various sv for this.

2. x = 3.00, y = 0.33 (Real length : 137ms)

I don't agree with using SVs at timing where the sounds have no significant difference like 00:40:597 -
So for this SV, I recommend you to use,
00:40:392 - 2.5x / 00:40:427 - 1.3x / 00:40:461 - 0.7x / 00:40:495 - 0.5x / 00:40:648 - 2.5x / 00:40:665 - 1.0x
These values regulate both parts'(00:40:392 - to 00:40:597 - // 00:40:597 - to 00:40:665 - ) average scroll speed to 1.0x

Exactly it's fine, thx for suggestion but I want to keep this.

3. 0.40 ~ 1.60 speedups

Some players say that their PC is not good enough and if there are too much (or too dense) SV points in short section, their PC lags and made them to fail.
So in my opinion it would be better to pick 4 to 8 timing points (that time difference of each SVs are the same) and put values like
0.4x 0.8x 1.2x 1.6x or
0.4x 0.6x 0.8x .... 1.6x

Not a problem for my PC tho

I play osu without graphic card. Just old AMD CPU but I don't think that I have a problem because of amount of SVs, maybe someone have a problem, not just sv, but osu itself.

Again, patterns are fine but SV seems to be need moding at least 1 or 2 times by modders who are good at handling SVs.

No kudosu and hope this helps!

PS: 앞에 븐첵 이야기가 있어서 영어로 적었습니다

Lastopia wrote:

Hello OwO

I just want to hear your opinion.
In the most sections, the SV does not change its value to 5.0 0.5, which seems to be a concept.
I think this is not good. I think Otakujanai is think the same thing too.

Think about this after reading Otakujanai's post.

(저는 영어 모딩을 컨셉으로 잡았습니다 좋지 않으신거 같으면 답글달아주세요~)

I said about this issue at otakujanai's mod, thx for your opinion.

Litharrale wrote:

hi hi heres heres my my mod mod

1|2|3|4

softhitnormal has a really long empty tail, should definitely fix it Fixed

use this bg instead http://animewallpaperstock.com/wallpape ... ko0060.jpg backfire will give me something so bg will be replaced :p

juan would like this map methinks Hope so

koi koi

00:15:574 (15574|1,15574|3,15574|2,15574|0) - I dont think these quads are really necessary, they feel really strong when the sound isnt really that different. Oki
removing notes like 00:15:574 (15574|1) - also removes some of the shields which makes it play smoother I agree. Deleted one

00:28:938 (28938|2,28938|1,29483|1,29483|3,29483|0) - general note count inconsistencies. Same sound, different note amount I decrease one count when the LN is placed.
When the LN isn't placed 00:29:756 (29756|0,29756|3,29892|3,29892|1,30029|0,30029|1,30029|3) -
When the LN is placed 00:28:665 (28665|1,28665|0,28802|3,28802|0,28938|1,28938|2) -
while we're on it, these reds 00:29:347 (29347|1,29347|0) - shouldnt be doubles, they're even weaker than the blue ticks imo 00:29:347 (29347|0,29347|1,29415|2) - they are same sound tho, but I put double at red line only because I don't wanna make double - double - triple(it makes awkward jack), so only emphasis the red line.

00:49:392 (49392|3) - my god main drum for double, sub drum for single
00:58:802 (58802|2) - MY GOD it makes same effect

I get the intention of this section but a lot of notes feel mapped to nothing like 00:57:983 (57983|0). This should be a 1/2 LN but it keeps going to match the theme which idk if im ok with. This can be extended to other sections as well like the kiai and first part where the are LNs that are just too long like 01:22:392 (82392|3) - where the last part is clearly not mapped to anything. since the song goes silent except for the vocal in col 2 First, 00:57:983 (57983|0) and 01:22:392 (82392|3) - are pretty different concept.
1. 00:57:983 (57983|0)
I put double at main drum like 00:48:302 (48302|0,48302|3) - , single at sub drum like 00:48:438 (48438|2) - .
but they are intentionally stretched, because I wanna emphasis the vocal+drum's endless repeated chaos. First part 00:45:029 - 00:53:756 - and second part 00:53:756 - 01:02:483 - looks similar, second part LN is same with first part but more-stretched because background melody is added. I wanna make a blend of repeated medley to put stretched LN.

2. 01:22:392 (82392|3) -
it's same concept with 00:01:392 - 00:10:120 - , I put double for melody but for drum I divide one like 01:20:211 (80211|1,80483|1) -

hard

01:03:711 (63711|2) - having sounds like these as LNs is very questionable, gonna need a justification for these you're right. I changed this LN to just a single note

01:07:938 (67938|0,68211|0) - same sound (literally kappa), different LN length changed the length, thx!

LN lengths are definitely the biggest problem in this set, they're not even consistent across difficulties


But it's not same diff, just for space management. exactly you can't make three LN's ending 01:20:211 (80211|0,80483|1,80620|2) - and two LN's starting 01:20:756 (80756|1,80756|0) - to put same time (Koi Koi diff that you show)
norm

possible spread issues https://i.imgur.com/853dPof.png wow actually, I add one note at 01:18:438 -

Garalulu wrote:

But it's not same diff, just for space management. exactly you can't make three LN's ending

Litharrale wrote:

Garalulu wrote:

But it's not same diff, just for space management. exactly you can't make three LN's ending

Well that's the point. A lot of these LNs aren't really mapped to anything. The start is but then they just kind of end wherever rather than being mapped to a specific sound in the music. You can't have notes that aren't completely mapped to a sound, that borders on ghost notes/dump mapping.

Litharrale wrote:

I'm not talking about between diffs (although that is an issue)

I'm talking about most of the LNs in the set that don't make sense.

An illustrated example:

This highlighted LN here 00:55:392 (55392|3) -


(video for people reading this who dont want to open the map https://puu.sh/yhTPB/c1e22186bc.mp4)

It is 2.75 beats long and starts on a clap and vocal sound accompanied by two SNs to show the clap.

I'm assuming the LN is following the vocal because there isnt really much else for it to follow. Standard logic would say to end the LN when the vocal ends which is correct. The vocal ends at the start of the very next LN here 00:55:665 (55665|2) - but the LN keeps continuing. Is this a bad thing? not at all, having an LN continue as another syllable of the vocal is mapped is a technique that's used and that makes sense.

Problem is the second syllable ends here 00:55:802 (55802|1) . You could argue that it ends at the white tick if you really stretched it but both LNs then continue beyond that as well. At this point we're going into uncharted territory where these LNs only exist as patterns rather than something mapped to the music.

They don't even end at the same spot so using the argument of "mapping separate syllables of a word then ending at the same spot" doesn't work



So if they're not mapped to the music, why do they end at all? why don't they keep going forever? Because new LNs start and we need to make room for them.

This is not ok. More than 50% of this LN isn't mapped to anything and that might as well fall under the category of "ghost notes".

The LN used as an example 00:55:392 (55392|3) - should end after one beat, 2 beats if you want to stretch it. Any further is ghost noting.

The map is full of them as well. I get what you're going for but I wouldn't consider it rankable.

Garalulu wrote:

Maybe you don't take LN maps enough to understand this, will tell about LNs if you really want
I hope not

-       _   -

juankristal wrote:

I see LN discussions so I will give my opinion on them (my poor ears ;_;)

As for the consistency between diffs I don't think it is a problem at all. That's kinda the point of making something harder and its being different, structured in harder ways.

If I have to be concerned by something it would be how the SVs make up for the patterns which in general feel aggresive but playing them are actually not as complicated as they look. (for example 00:02:688 (2688|2,2688|0) - this one being a double instead of 00:02:756 (2756|1) - which in theory it breaks the consistency of the pattern a bit but again, it could be justified with proper SV usage)

As in general speaking for LN releases I want to sort them in two different types, intentionally hard or intentionally easier. The case of this map features mostly intentionally easier releases due to the way it is constructed. With so many SVs having wonki (pun not intended) releases would make it really complicated to follow so having the release timings attached to the next LN press for instances would make up for a more playable pattern (and in my eyes, it is completely rankable, you can check the kiais of FIRST as well).

Other cases of LN sort of simplification is doing stuff like this 00:11:892 (11892|2,11961|1) - forcing the LN releases to be both consistent at the same time but also representing the pitch / sound change. This way given the pitch or sound change is not as relevant as it could be for other instances using techniques like this one makes sense for me as well. Same applies here 00:45:029 (45029|0,45302|1) - but also with SV justification.

00:45:029 (45029|0,45302|1) - For this section what it matters is the LNs that represents similar instruments (or voice in this case) to keep up with a logical pattern (which is trill oriented shields) but also keeping up consistent lenghts within each other (all of them are 3/4s long). Could you explain to me what do you mean by trill oriented shields? anyway, I reduce the LN's length at 00:53:756 - 00:54:847 - for consistency because it doesn't have anything special meaning unlike 00:55:392 - 00:56:483 -

00:57:983 - Here it is basically full inverse, its intentional and its fine as well I would say. My only concern would be where the inverse actually starts which imo should be 00:58:120 - here with the main long sax going long (which also leads me to believe that 00:57:983 (57983|0,59074|3,60165|1) - this ones are unsnapped by 1/2) the big difference with 00:45:029 - 00:53:756 - and 00:53:756 - 01:02:483 - are additional background sound like sax you said, so I intentionally stretch the LN (00:53:756 (53756|0,54029|1,54302|3,54438|2) - 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2,55938|0,56074|1) - ) in advance. and yeah sax are still appeared at 00:55:938 - 00:57:029 - and 00:57:574 - , so I made this part inverse. It can be showed unsnapped by 1/2, but I put the notes same with 00:48:302 - 00:52:665 - so players can play this part well and don't be flustered when they meet this wall :p so it's not unsnap issue tho


01:04:665 (64665|2,64665|3,64802|2,64938|3,65074|2,65211|3,65279|2) - This pattern shape is not that bad but man making it right hand is a bit of a pain. I would split it between both hands. it's really satisfied pattern among all of them to myself, even though it makes a pain I wanna keep this.

01:19:938 - You are evil and I hope you know it. I love this. This plays susprisingly well with the SVs and I hope you dont change it. Even when it breaks a bit the consistency in terms of density the pattern transition makes up for the change in my opinion. Specially considering the SVs. For the Noodle, of course!


Anyways, I just wanted to point those things out to like hopefuly clarify a bit my opinion on this one and hopefully help the mapper in order to push this forward (this song is really annoying aaadfafasf) aaadfafasf

Feel free to call me if you are in doubt (Lith or Lulu whoever needs it) for anything here. I would gladly offer my help or at least provide my opinion in any particular part you feel its not right.

Litharrale wrote:

lith and lulu argue about 2 LN bois for 20th time but this time it ends in a bubble

2017-11-18 18:06 Garalulu: holaloh
2017-11-18 18:56 Litharrale: hola
2017-11-18 18:58 Garalulu: do you have a time about renai thing now?
2017-11-18 18:58 Litharrale: yep just give me a sec
2017-11-18 18:58 Litharrale: 2 mins
2017-11-18 19:04 Litharrale: ok
2017-11-18 19:04 Litharrale: lets do it
2017-11-18 19:05 Garalulu: nice
2017-11-18 19:05 Garalulu: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1447019 Sara - Ren Ren Ai Ai Cir Cir Cula Cula Tion Tion]
2017-11-18 19:05 Litharrale: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1446011 Sara - Ren Ren Ai Ai Cir Cir Cula Cula Tion Tion [Koi Koi]]
2017-11-18 19:07 Litharrale: so this 
2017-11-18 19:07 Litharrale: 00:46:665 (46665|3,46938|2,47211|0,47347|1,47483|3,47620|2) - 
2017-11-18 19:07 Litharrale: why is it different to this 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2,55938|0,56074|1,56211|3,56347|2) - 
2017-11-18 19:07 Litharrale: they're both the same
2017-11-18 19:08 Garalulu: first
2017-11-18 19:08 Garalulu: I catched the horn or sax sound
2017-11-18 19:08 Garalulu: at 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2,55938|0,56074|1,56211|3,56347|2) -
2017-11-18 19:08 Garalulu: 00:55:938 -
2017-11-18 19:09 Litharrale: 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) - these two though
2017-11-18 19:09 Litharrale: they're not on the sax/horn sound
2017-11-18 19:10 Garalulu: yeah they don't have the sax sound themself
2017-11-18 19:10 Garalulu: but I wanna make the wall to use them, and it's ln mapping style
2017-11-18 19:10 Litharrale: the whole map is ln mapping style tho
2017-11-18 19:11 Garalulu: because 00:55:938 - 00:56:483 - we can heard the sound, so I use them also
2017-11-18 19:11 Garalulu: to stretch them
2017-11-18 19:12 Litharrale: yeah ik about the horn but these two 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) -  aren't on the horn and here they dont extend 00:46:665 (46665|3,46938|2) - 
2017-11-18 19:12 Litharrale: also the horn goes past these notes 00:56:483 (56483|1,56483|0) - 
2017-11-18 19:12 Litharrale: so why dont the LNs keep going?
2017-11-18 19:12 Litharrale: 00:56:756 (56756|0,56756|1,56756|3) - these notes also have the horn
2017-11-18 19:12 Litharrale: so they should be LNs
2017-11-18 19:14 Garalulu: I focused the drum's going, and already make that structure like 00:54:847 - 00:55:392 -
2017-11-18 19:14 Garalulu: for that
2017-11-18 19:14 Garalulu: and SV
2017-11-18 19:14 Litharrale: my point 
2017-11-18 19:15 Litharrale: is you cant say "LNs are long because of horn
2017-11-18 19:15 Litharrale: when you dont map the horn anywhere else 
2017-11-18 19:16 Garalulu: the horn only appeared at 00:55:938 - 00:56:483 - 00:57:029 - 01:01:392 -
2017-11-18 19:16 Garalulu: and 00:56:756 - this sound isn't too long compared with other case
2017-11-18 19:17 Litharrale: so 50% of the time you map the horn
2017-11-18 19:17 Litharrale: with LNs
2017-11-18 19:17 Litharrale: and these are long 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) -  because of the horn?
2017-11-18 19:18 Garalulu: the horns and melody goings structure
2017-11-18 19:18 Garalulu: you can find it's intended inverse pattern
2017-11-18 19:18 Litharrale: I know
2017-11-18 19:18 Litharrale: but i think being consistent > inverse
2017-11-18 19:19 Litharrale: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9565969 
2017-11-18 19:19 Litharrale: this is what it should be imo
2017-11-18 19:21 Garalulu: hmm but I don't think it's not consistent cause that part has horns sound more, and it follows the rule with 00:57:029 - 01:01:392 - going
2017-11-18 19:21 Litharrale: 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) - theres no horn here
2017-11-18 19:22 Litharrale: 00:55:938 (55938|0,56074|1) - there's horn here
2017-11-18 19:22 Garalulu: not just 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) - , but 00:55:392 - 00:56:483 - the all
2017-11-18 19:23 Garalulu: you can not make the reason that the horn start at 00:55:938 -
2017-11-18 19:23 Litharrale: it does start there though
2017-11-18 19:23 Garalulu: it's progress
2017-11-18 19:23 Litharrale: ?
2017-11-18 19:25 Garalulu: your opinion is that 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) - no horn here so reduce the length?
2017-11-18 19:25 Litharrale: yah
2017-11-18 19:25 Litharrale: also 00:56:211 (56211|3,56347|2) - should be longer
2017-11-18 19:25 Litharrale: 00:56:756 (56756|1) - these too
2017-11-18 19:26 Garalulu: ?
2017-11-18 19:26 Litharrale: if you're mapping to the horn here 00:56:074 (56074|1) - 
2017-11-18 19:26 Litharrale: you cant just ignore it immediately after
2017-11-18 19:27 Garalulu: I really don't understand your mapping theory
2017-11-18 19:27 Litharrale: my mapping theory is this 
2017-11-18 19:27 Litharrale: "map to the music"
2017-11-18 19:27 Garalulu: I use the SV, and focusing drum only
2017-11-18 19:27 Garalulu: it's not inconsistency thing tho
2017-11-18 19:28 Litharrale: its definitely demonstrably inconsistent
2017-11-18 19:28 Garalulu: wow
2017-11-18 19:29 Garalulu: you know you can't express the music with all of thing
2017-11-18 19:29 Garalulu: I use the same structure with 00:46:120 - 00:46:665 - 00:47:756 - 00:48:302 - 00:54:847 - 00:55:392 -
2017-11-18 19:30 Garalulu: and only for the drum and vocal's repeating
2017-11-18 19:30 Garalulu: to use SV
2017-11-18 19:30 Litharrale: in all your examples the SVs are short and end at the same time
2017-11-18 19:30 Litharrale: that's why they're ok but the one we're talking about isnt 
2017-11-18 19:30 Litharrale: because it goes way past when it should finish 
2017-11-18 19:30 Litharrale: and ends at random spots
2017-11-18 19:30 Litharrale: lulu, we're going in circles
2017-11-18 19:30 Litharrale: if you cant make a small concession, we're not getting anywhere
2017-11-18 19:32 Garalulu: I understand 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) - issue what you think
2017-11-18 19:33 Garalulu: ofc I can fixed that
2017-11-18 19:33 Litharrale: there are a lot of other problems I have with your map but I can understand why you did them and im willing to let them slide 
2017-11-18 19:33 Garalulu: but I don't agree 00:56:483 - 00:57:029 - consistency thing
2017-11-18 19:33 Litharrale: but this LN is too much
2017-11-18 19:33 Litharrale: im ok with you not doing those ones
2017-11-18 19:34 Garalulu: alright
2017-11-18 19:34 Garalulu: 00:55:392 (55392|3,55665|2) - fixed
2017-11-18 19:34 Litharrale: kk update and ill bub

Sinnoh wrote:

Yes I am allowed to do this

The spread from Hard to Insane was well discussed in the thread, but the spread of Normal to Hard was left out.

tldr; Normal introduces a few concepts and reuses them a lot. Hard keeps introducing new concepts over and over, each building to be more technical than the previous, which creates an unreasonable spread.

The purpose of a spread is to allow the majority of the players to enjoy a set. At rank 30k, I am unable to pass more than 30% of the hard diff, and fail with 70-75% accuracy. On the other hand, I can S rank the normal with DT easily, and I never play DT.
With the current spread, you're excluding everyone from rank 60k to 30k, and that's a huge part of the community.

1. As a general point, there isn't a single 1/4 rhythm on normal. Hard requires the player to follow almost every 1/4 sound available in the music, most of them mapped with LNs which are even harder. A reasonable spread would have normal playing some of the important 1/4 sounds with normal notes, or a much higher density of 1/2 rhythm, neither of which are done here. I won't go much further on rhythm density, because it's present through the whole map, and is summarised by my point above.
   
2. 00:00:574 (574|0) - This part is fine, the rhythm of both diffs are fairly similar, Hard is essentially an LN version of normal
   00:02:483 (2483|3) - 00:04:665 (4665|0) - These are not fine, lets go over what is introduced on each diff. Fixed. same as under issue
   
   Normal: 1/1 jacks are used, then 1/1 jacks as 1/2 LNs are added after. No other rhythm occurs.
   Hard: 3/4 LNs are combined with LN bursts, 1/4 LNs are introduced at 00:03:029 (3029|3,3097|0) - , creating 5 note long patterns of 1/4 that are all LN, all on a part that is completely unmapped on Normal.
   
   seriously, this is not ok
   
3. 00:06:847 (6847|3) - Is essentially the same as above, but only with higher density. Fixed. add note at 00:07:256 -
   
4. 00:36:779 (36779|2) - This section highlights some of the parts where 1/4 rhythm is much harder than normal, unconventional 1/4 streams with doubles are very technical for someone that plays hard. Thing is normal doesn't even have any rhythm variation on it. I don't think it's an issue. not unconventional pattern and Normal has enough notes compared with Easy. Hard is enough also compared with Insane. It looks heavy yes but I wanna keep this
   
5. 00:43:392 (43392|0,43461|2) - You're combining streams and 1/2 jacks at the same time. Normal doesn't have any streams or 1/2 jacks in the whole diff. Requiring someone who has moved above normal to do one is acceptable, having them do both at the same time is not.
   Same applies for doubles and 1/2 jacks in other areas. same issue with above
   
6. 01:02:483 (62483|0) - Lets compare hard and normal again.
   
   Normal: Hold an LN, play three 1/2 notes, do it twice.
   Hard: Mash a 3/4 LN jack three times, play a burst with an LN, play four 1/4s in a row, three of which are LNs, play a burst, two of which this time are LNs
   
   The amount of concepts introduced is unreasonable compared to Normal, hard should serve as a bridge for plays who are unexperienced with Insane diffs, not as an insane diff. You can check it's easy if they're just rice, but My concept is LN. it can be showed too many gap but It's fine tho
   
7. 01:06:847 (66847|3) - The same concepts as above are used on Normal, very few new ideas are introduced. On hard, a whole new idea is added to the mix with 1/4 LN spam.
   Each diff should have a certain number of new concepts introduced. The amount of ideas introduced on hard is unreasonably high compared to other normal-hard spreads. actually I emphasis the melody flow at Hard and the drum at Normal and you can check it, it's not a problem
   
8. 01:09:574 (69574|3) - Same point as before. Tricky 1/2 patterns are used on normal for filler, but 01:04:665 (64665|2) - and 01:09:302 (69302|1) - are very fundamentally different on hard. add one note at 01:04:938 - drum sound.
   
9. 01:19:938 (79938|0) - This section on normal is mapped identical to 00:01:392 (1392|0) - , but hard introduces yet another completely new idea which is even more technical. I already concern about this issue, so add one note at 01:21:302 - and 01:21:438 -

In my opinion, the best solution to the issues I brought up would be to buff hard to become an insane, and add easier hard to fill the spread. It's a better option than nerfing the hard, since Lith mentioned that the top diff is borderline unplayable for him and hard was simple.

Even if you call the current diff a hard, it fundamentally plays as an Insane. I'll be placing a veto on this until there is a proper spread

qqqant wrote:

I agree with Sinnoh that Hard Hard really almost plays like an Insane Insane. I'd suggest doing a spread similar to Power Points (I bring this one up because it's also underrated in its Insane diff, comparable to the current Hard Hard) - due to the huge gaps between Normal Normal and Koi Koi, it would be a lot better for another diff to be added.

Garalulu wrote:

What is power point?

Sinnoh wrote:

Yes I am allowed to do this

The spread from Hard to Insane was well discussed in the thread, but the spread of Normal to Hard was left out.

tldr; Normal introduces a few concepts and reuses them a lot. Hard keeps introducing new concepts over and over, each building to be more technical than the previous, which creates an unreasonable spread.

The purpose of a spread is to allow the majority of the players to enjoy a set. At rank 30k, I am unable to pass more than 30% of the hard diff, and fail with 70-75% accuracy. On the other hand, I can S rank the normal with DT easily, and I never play DT.
With the current spread, you're excluding everyone from rank 60k to 30k, and that's a huge part of the community.


In my opinion, the best solution to the issues I brought up would be to buff hard to become an insane, and add easier hard to fill the spread. It's a better option than nerfing the hard, since Lith mentioned that the top diff is borderline unplayable for him and hard was simple.

ldr; Normal introduces a few concepts and reuses them a lot. Hard keeps introducing new concepts over and over, each building to be more technical than the previous, which creates an unreasonable spread.

The purpose of a spread is to allow the majority of the players to enjoy a set. At rank 30k, I am unable to pass more than 30% of the hard diff, and fail with 70-75% accuracy.

In my opinion, the best solution to the issues I brought up would be to buff hard to become an insane, and add easier hard to fill the spread. It's a better option than nerfing the hard, since Lith mentioned that the top diff is borderline unplayable for him and hard was simple.

Lith mentioned that the top diff is borderline unplayable for him