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Poll 12: How should we deal with cheaters?

posted
Total Posts
210

A cheater is found (100% certain). What do we do with them?

Permanent ban (no exceptions)
130
41.67%
Give a second chance (new account)
39
12.50%
Score reset, disable submission, but leave account access
143
45.83%
Total votes: 312
Polling ended
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
Every time I ban a cheater, I get stuck in an email conversation where they either

a) lie and say they didn't cheat.
b) acknowledge they cheated but want a second chance.

I used to give second chances, but the rate of re-offense was so high I have stopped doing so. For what it's worth, I already have ideas on how to handle this, but I'd like to get your opinions as well. Keep in mind that in the case of permanent ban, it is hard to enforce as people can make multis.

Vote and discuss.
hillaryzx
363 posts
Joined October 2010
hillaryzx
Permanent ban should be enough for real cheaters....
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
I voted for score reset, disable submission, but leave account access. Perhaps it would be wise to block account creation from their IP/MAC address in addition to that.
Bobo_old
492 posts
Joined February 2011
Bobo_old
Well I don't understand how they could say they didn't cheat, I mean how do you accidentally cheat??

-.-
Waryas
Waryas
lol last option is actually good
Osu Tatakae Ouendan
osu! Alumni
333 posts
Joined December 2010
Osu Tatakae Ouendan
here's the catch
if you do find a cheater in which case 100% sure he has cheated, it's usually nice to give a second chance, but it's a sure way to abuse such
if i say perma-ban, then multiaccounting would be their action. As for the third option I believe they'll just multi account again.
What's the use of cheating to get a high score if you can't show it to anyone?
I propose a 4th option of both Perma-ban and IP ban or something like that. Point is we have to find a way around the multiaccount loophole.



*EDIT: voted for permaban though, but we still need to find a way around the multiaccount problem
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250
I used to think if they admit they cheated and apologized they should be given a second chance, but I wont even say that these days.

Cheating isn't a gray area, the person doing it obviously knows they are breaking the rules. If they choose to cheat and ruin the fun of everyone else playing, I see no reason to give them another chance or let them stay in the community . So voting for permanent ban.

Multi-accounts do add a very big problem but hopefully a more advanced system can be put in place in the future to counter that...(not saying I have any good ideas for that though)
Mara
4,906 posts
Joined November 2009
Mara

Osu Tatakae Ouendan wrote:

both Perma-ban and IP ban or something like that
Won't work - proxy.

I voted perm ban, by the way. No mercy for sandrakers.
DeletedUser_910779
DeletedUser_910779
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Last edited by DeletedUser_910779 , edited 1 time in total.
dNextGen
4,689 posts
Joined May 2010
dNextGen

Soly wrote:

Permanent banana. No exceptions.
Jalatiphra
294 posts
Joined April 2009
Jalatiphra
permanent ban, we cant do anything against re-registering anyway
XK2238
2,066 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238
MAC ban is enough I think, people will have to buy a whole new PC to continue cheating, which is very fund-draining, and they won't be brave to cheat anymore. \o/

(Voted for permanent ban)
emonite
229 posts
Joined February 2012
emonite
IP ban is too harsh,I don't like it whenever it may affect the others just because of one's action.I voted for permanent ban.

Jalatiphra wrote:

permanent ban, we cant do anything against re-registering anyway
Those who kept re-registering will surely get tired of it and stop because it is not worth their time.Seriously unless that guy is a NEET and have too much free time...
Last edited by emonite , edited 1 time in total.
Bittersweet
2,031 posts
Joined February 2010
Bittersweet
I'd say permaban, but from what i saw, they -always- make a second acc (and keep doing the same thing). So it's better reset scores, imo.

But if you disable submission it will be the same as banning the acc - they'll make another.
Laharl
1,394 posts
Joined January 2011
Laharl

Bittersweet wrote:

I'd say permaban, but from what i saw, they -always- make a second acc (and keep doing the same thing). So it's better reset scores, imo.

But if you disable submission it will be the same as banning the acc - they'll make another.
Yeah. That was why I voted for resetting the score. I'm actually more for the permaban but I'm pretty sure it is useless.
Disease_old_1
Disease_old_1

Soly wrote:

Permanent banana. No exceptions.
Krzysiek
237 posts
Joined March 2010
Krzysiek
Voted "Score reset, disable submission, but leave account access".

While you can always multi-account, it looks different after permanent ban and disable account.
- after permaban it looks like cheater is so smart that he fooled protection system (e-pen gained, cheater be hatin' more)
- account disable can't be bypassed so new account looks like cheater can't beat developers he/she hates so much (no e-pen gained)

And disabled account data can be utilized in the future I guess (?).
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
When I am talking "account access", I mean letting the user login to chat/forums. We still keep access to the account and have all relevant data, so it wouldn't change how easy it is to track people.
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan
Permaban =).
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
Getting rid of the cheating account should be a given but then it is hard to track the user if you do give a 2nd chance.
I'd go with the 2nd choice but maybe instead wipe score and give them one more chance to play while submitting scores.
But for now I'd stick with giving a 2nd chance with a new account possibly link that there old account was such and such if possible?
Sinistro
osu! Alumni
1,412 posts
Joined January 2008
Sinistro
Wipe their score and disable their submission, but let them keep the account. I am aware they can still create a new account and start from scratch just as if we banned them altogether, but on principle I'd prefer to punish the offense itself, rather than the offender.

That message (it's not you we don't like, it's what you did) will probably be lost on most cheaters though. Oh well.
Xau_old
Xau_old
i think people who cheated on secundary accounts should also have second chances..
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
so allow all the multis and all the cheaters? :p
-Athena-
1,414 posts
Joined June 2011
-Athena-

peppy wrote:

so allow all the multis and all the cheaters? :p
Works for me :p
/runs

On a more serious note I think perma-ban is the best option, it may not be foolproof but it shows that we actually care
Xau_old
Xau_old
lunah also cheated and made a multi account linked to the old one, why isn't this option available to everyone?
Bittersweet
2,031 posts
Joined February 2010
Bittersweet
Second chance. Thats your 453th account, asdasdasd654456
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
I was always thinking that preventing cheating is more important and useful than ways to ban them
Well, anyway. I voted for permaban
Xau_old
Xau_old

Bittersweet wrote:

Second chance. Thats your 453th account, asdasdasd654456
im talking acount getting permanent banned for secundary account cheating. No second chances? second chances are only to main account cheaters right? that's so fair..
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
Option 3:
Also all of their forum posts, their complete profile and all of the cheaters beatmaps are deleted. They should also be marked in both the user online list in game and their profile as a cheater so everyone will see it, and it should be so noticeable that you can not miss it. Also they should be silenced forever in any chat room and private messages. That is a very good punishment for cheaters, just let them be online and enjoy their shamefull existance and let them at least play without taking part in the community ever again in any way. This should also be applied for any other account they had before they got banned and also every new one they will create. And they should never again be able to post on the forums! Or make a subforum where only cheaters are allowed to post and let them cry with each other for the rest of their life
Bittersweet
2,031 posts
Joined February 2010
Bittersweet

asdasdasd654456 wrote:

Bittersweet wrote:

Second chance. Thats your 453th account, asdasdasd654456
im talking acount getting permanent banned for secundary account cheating. No second chances? second chances are only to main account cheaters right? that's so fair..
Hm, i don't think so. I recall you getting banned and then getting back with your original account. That was your second chance. If you kept cheating after that you're just stupid and should get permabans in every acc.
Xau_old
Xau_old

Bittersweet wrote:

Hm, i don't think so. I recall you getting banned and then getting back with your original account. That was your second chance. If you kept cheating after that you're just stupid and should get permabans in every acc.
my first ban wasn't even fair.. some player called nautic started trolling around and then i got banned. i never got a second chance for cheating
Sinistro
osu! Alumni
1,412 posts
Joined January 2008
Sinistro
Guys, please keep this thread on topic.
VelperK
1,172 posts
Joined May 2010
VelperK
Ban them all. They destroy game's atmosphere so badly...
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Problem: cheaters submit scores that they do not deserve.
Solution: prevent them from submitting new scores.

This lets them keep their old account. If you have a good way of tracking multi accounts, you can use that information to then ban new accounts. Keep in mind that anyone who picks up the game and is immediately awesome at it is either a multi-accounter or cheating. You can lump multi-accounts into "cheating".

you can't stop someone smart from making a 2nd account and making no reference to their previous account. I'm also pretty sure nobody has ever done this before.
Disease_old_1
Disease_old_1

asdasdasd654456 wrote:

i never got a second chance for cheating
so you're gonna cheat again? wat
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Voted for option 1:

People who once cheated are highly likely to cheat again, giving a second chance as you said peppy, may lead to that user who wasted your time lying to you/insisting for a second chance making you waste your time again (or you could even say that guy is insulting you).

Then again, a permanent ban makes you lose your "public ID" and your friend list. To be honest if I ever got banned what I'd suffer the most isn't the lost of my stats/score, but the fact I got to start out again as a random user not being able to say publicly who I am. Not having a second chance to play even if some day I feel like getting some top scores and stuff, since I know the moment anyone from the staff ends up knowing who I really am I gonna lose them.

Option 2:

Lol, this is basically "you can go cheat do whatever you want, you gonna get 999 chances if you say you're sorry!". The worst out of those 3.

Option 3:

Sounds cool, but I still prefer 3 since it's kind of the same than this but harsher. On this idea you basically "ban him" from the game but the guy can still post and stuff, if he ever wanna play he can do a multi and that's all...
Xau_old
Xau_old
what? no. i want a second chance because i cheated on other accounts and my main account it's completely legit. cheating again is not my target
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Wishy22 wrote:

Option 3:

Sounds cool, but I still prefer 3 since it's kind of the same than this but harsher. On this idea you basically "ban him" from the game but the guy can still post and stuff, if he ever wanna play he can do a multi and that's all...
If I understand this correctly, they can still play the game as well. They just no longer play the game with any form of online recognition. When osu dies, everyone will be on option 3.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

asdasdasd654456 wrote:

what? no. i want a second chance because i cheated on other accounts and my main account it's completely legit. cheating again is not my target
The point is that you're not allowed to cheat on any account.
Bass
1,846 posts
Joined January 2009
Bass
He shouldn't even be allowed to have multiaccounts imo.
Xau_old
Xau_old
y but lunah can have a new one right?
Maraiga
383 posts
Joined December 2009
Maraiga

ztrot wrote:

I'd go with the 2nd choice but maybe instead wipe score and give them one more chance to play while submitting scores.
But for now I'd stick with giving a 2nd chance with a new account possibly link that there old account was such and such if possible?

My thoughts exactly o:
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
@ziin

It's kind of the same thing, if that guy ever wants to play online again all he has to do is make another account... and even if you can "pursue him" using his IP or anything, you still can't prove it's really him player, and then again if he changes his IP and then starts using another account you can prove nothing.

The main issue are MULTI ACCOUNTS, that problem comes from the fact that accounts are worth pretty much NOTHING. Even if you get yourself banned all you got to do is make another account and that's it, obviously cheaters don't really care about getting banned/losing their scores (since they cheated them lol). I think this would be solved with some cool ladder system/good ranking system where rank actually means something.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
voted perma-ban TAKE NO PRISONERS!

More importantly, is there really no way to prevent multis? :/
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Wishy22 wrote:

@ziin

It's kind of the same thing, if that guy ever wants to play online again all he has to do is make another account... and even if you can "pursue him" using his IP or anything, you still can't prove it's really him player, and then again if he changes his IP and then starts using another account you can prove nothing.

The main issue are MULTI ACCOUNTS, that problem comes from the fact that accounts are worth pretty much NOTHING. Even if you get yourself banned all you got to do is make another account and that's it, obviously cheaters don't really care about getting banned/losing their scores (since they cheated them lol). I think this would be solved with some cool ladder system/good ranking system where rank actually means something.
Player A's account 1 is banned.
Player A gets new IP.
Player A makes new account 2, never logs onto banned account 1.
No way to match account 2 with account 1.

Player A's account 1 gets suspended.
Player A gets new IP.
Player A makes new account 2, occasionally logs onto suspended account 1 with new IP.
We now have a link between new account 2 and suspended account 1, and can act appropriately. Furthermore, account 2 will likely be SSing insane songs on day 1, which is not humanly possible. Banning new accounts should not be a difficult process, so long as there is an explanation as to why the account was banned (in this case, the player is way too good to be new).

IP matching is used to find multi accounts on another forum I moderate, and is not foolproof (siblings on same IP, ISP re-uses old IP). By using such a system as well as comparing relative skill levels of the two accounts, it should be a simple (though tedious) process to determine multi-accounts.

The other problem is that a lot of the high profile cheaters didn't really cheat their way up to being that good, they did it in order to see if they could get away with it/get banned because they don't like the community anymore.

asdasdasd654456 wrote:

what? no. i want a second chance because i cheated on other accounts and my main account it's completely legit. cheating again is not my target
also, this person's account should just be straight up banned right now, no questions asked.
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane
Voted option 3 since scores and community are, to me, unrelated.
halo398
halo398
vote 1 cuz people can go to top of leaderboards not making osu a game anymore >:(
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
If nothing else, then a score reset would probably be the safest option. Even better, this should be undoable, in case it turns out that the player wasn't cheating. If a player cheats, then a simple score reset would enable them to stay in touch with the community.
halo398
halo398
well that defeats the point its for cheaters
and hackers can hack u via internet do u want that huh do u want them to steal ur info and all that?
Last edited by Sakura , edited 1 time in total.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
halo398: please use the edit button instead of posting again in a row, specially when you add something just like a minute after
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