Monstrata: Mapping a four dimensional map with a five dimensional perspective

Tbh on last diff, I don't think 01:47:606 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - is the best option.
1. At this speed it feels unecessary to force the difficulty more since that part is already quite intense.
2. Intensity of the music changes from that point 01:48:138 - , so if you want to keep a spacing difference for these kicksliders, you should cut them in two parts who 01:47:606 (1,2,1,2) - use a constant spacing and 01:48:138 (1,2,1,2) - a different one.
Oh also would be nice to adjust quickly spacing for 00:07:429 (14,1) - / 00:07:961 (6,1) - / 00:08:493 (6,1) - .


What a stream hell tho lol gl here~

Nozhomi wrote:

Tbh on last diff, I don't think 01:47:606 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - is the best option.
1. At this speed it feels unecessary to force the difficulty more since that part is already quite intense. It's not forcing more difficulty. If anything it's a break from the intense stream rhythm.
2. Intensity of the music changes from that point 01:48:138 - , so if you want to keep a spacing difference for these kicksliders, you should cut them in two parts who 01:47:606 (1,2,1,2) - use a constant spacing and 01:48:138 (1,2,1,2) - a different one. I disagree, I think only the last two notes are worth highlighting above the others.
Oh also would be nice to adjust quickly spacing for 00:07:429 (14,1) - / 00:07:961 (6,1) - / 00:08:493 (6,1) - . They are fine, I don't think spacing them any different will accomplish anything differently xP The heads are all emphasized.


What a stream hell tho lol gl here~

Thanks~

we fixed some things here and there on every diff

^We communicated telepathically

next stop is alien and we all know that
hobbes already posted this on reddit


we fixed 1 more thing, the hp on nino's extra is now 6 instead of 5,5

nothing else to be said,
congrats!!!!

Oh boy

i thought this was babymetal

oh hey gratz

Congratz! You finally ranked it

grats strata

Congrulation!

excuse me if i'm wrong but don't you have to have 12 star priority to qualify a map

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar

00:45:876 (1,2,3) - I think this rhythm would fit the drums and piano better, what you have right now kinda.. doesn't really fit imo http://i.imgur.com/KpXKhZk.png

00:44:812 (1,2,3,4) - all ignoring the 1/4, you could use 1/4 sliders here?

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking.

1. 00:51:198 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - sidenote the whistles here overlap each other so annoyingly when they're put on such high bpm 1/4, it actually takes away from the gameplay experience imo so what i would suggest is using a shorter whistle so that they don't overlap as noticeably

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream

00:56:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - this ncing seems to be inconsistent with 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - but again my point about rhythm here and other places

01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais

Minor stuff:

- 00:09:890 (3) - 00:10:821 (2) - missing whistle?
- 00:20:599 (5,7) - removing the hitsounds here would actually sound better imo since the song has no noticeable drum here
- 00:38:027 (2) - 1/6 here you could have taken advantage of

Overall the map in its current state I think does not represent the song in the best way it can and as it stands actually chooses to ignore it in both kiais and through lack of differentiation between instruments in various places. The streams have very little emphasis spacing-wise and the infrequent direction changes, while some are present and work, don't really do much to help the emphasis. The rhythm in the kiai ignores the song pretty obviously especially when the same rhythm as 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - was mapped like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - in a non-kiai section.

hi-mei wrote:

monstrata

right now

lmao

Mir wrote:

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar This is just visuals. The "slight spacing change" isn't being used to create emphasis. You won't feel any emphatic difference when hitting those specific notes because of their spacing.

00:45:876 (1,2,3) - I think this rhythm would fit the drums and piano better, what you have right now kinda.. doesn't really fit imo http://i.imgur.com/KpXKhZk.png What? No... this fits perfectly

00:44:812 (1,2,3,4) - all ignoring the 1/4, you could use 1/4 sliders here? I don't want to use 1/4's. 1/2 works better in building up the song.

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking. I want this to be a stream map. THey are definitely supported in the song and the rhythm being used is in no way confusing.

1. 00:51:198 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - sidenote the whistles here overlap each other so annoyingly when they're put on such high bpm 1/4, it actually takes away from the gameplay experience imo so what i would suggest is using a shorter whistle so that they don't overlap as noticeably

Uh.. I jsut disagree. THey're maybe annoying to you, but they fit very well for me.

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg What? They're following the drum. And it really helps to separate this rhythm from the rest of the streams.

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream It doesn't lower in intensity. Listen to the 1/4's they are still there. You are basing the "lack of intensity" on the fact that the high piano note is held which is subjective at best.

00:56:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - this ncing seems to be inconsistent with 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - but again my point about rhythm here and other places My bad. But i'm not dq'ing unless theres a valid reason. lets see...

01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds Theyre definitely kicksliders... just listen to the kick rhythm.

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow.

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well That's too bad.

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams.

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes It's the same as all the others. I think your idea of intensity just differs from mine. I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc...

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo ^

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais That's the idea. it's freedom dive esque in that aspect and i really like it. i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting.

Minor stuff:

- 00:09:890 (3) - 00:10:821 (2) - missing whistle? No theyre there on purpose. spamming all whistles sounds bad. 3 is consistent with 00:10:821 (2) - anyways.
- 00:20:599 (5,7) - removing the hitsounds here would actually sound better imo since the song has no noticeable drum here Uh no... disagree.
- 00:38:027 (2) - 1/6 here you could have taken advantage of Yea i don' want to xP.

Overall the map in its current state I think does not represent the song in the best way it can and as it stands actually chooses to ignore it in both kiais and through lack of differentiation between instruments in various places. The streams have very little emphasis spacing-wise and the infrequent direction changes, while some are present and work, don't really do much to help the emphasis. The rhythm in the kiai ignores the song pretty obviously especially when the same rhythm as 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - was mapped like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - in a non-kiai section.

[]

Sorry... I think we just have differing views on how intensity should function, and you should really consider the idea behind this map more. Look at Nakagawa kanon's freedom dive. you'll see a lot of aesthetics are borrowed there. as well, the map is a test of consistency and stamina. it's not trying to delegate different spacings to match the exact pitch and intensity of every section of music. It's looking more broadly at whole stanxas, and less narrowly at specific patterns and rhythms.

You're using a hell of a lot of words to say absolutely nothing, Monstrata.


Pretty much your entire post is "buh-buh-but freedom dive" and "i don't feel like it".

There's nothing much to say. I disagree with Mir completely. I'm just giving justification so he can at least see my perspective because I have no intention of fixing what's already great.

Let's take a look at some random quotes.

"i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting."
They're streams. The entire emphasis they have will be with the cursor movements, and if you're not following the melody or the patterning in the music, but instead making shit up, you're going to want to do so consistently.

"I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams. "
Then use your precious right hand rhythm to provide the player with a varied experience.

"I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow."
Then you lack creativity and capability as a mapper.

"I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc..."
You can have that without just throwing down generic 1-8, 1-16 gentle circular motions. Especially when those combinations don't actually fit the melody.



So as a whole, you're just putting out contradictory reasons so that you can rank an embarassingly generic stream map whose only defining features is being "like freedom dive guys!" and by Monstrata.

You want consistency, but refuse to follow the melody.
You want predictability, but don't use consistent motions or movement.
You want to challenge players, but bring them an unpredictable stream challenge.

This is a shitty song for various reasons (encode quality high among them), but really... you could do better. I know you can.

gratz monstratita!

thx natsusito

Congrats Señorito Monstrata! Are you considering mapping more xi in the future?

Monstrata wrote:

Mir wrote:

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar This is just visuals. The "slight spacing change" isn't being used to create emphasis. You won't feel any emphatic difference when hitting those specific notes because of their spacing. um.. you do feel the difference, this is quite noticeable and does have an impact on gameplay. even if you say it's only aesthetics it's inconsistent with 00:39:491 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - aesthetically too, and since this map's core concept is apparently consistency, that breaks the concept.

00:45:876 (1,2,3) - I think this rhythm would fit the drums and piano better, what you have right now kinda.. doesn't really fit imo http://i.imgur.com/KpXKhZk.png What? No... this fits perfectly

00:44:812 (1,2,3,4) - all ignoring the 1/4, you could use 1/4 sliders here? I don't want to use 1/4's. 1/2 works better in building up the song.

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking. I want this to be a stream map. THey are definitely supported in the song and the rhythm being used is in no way confusing. That's exactly the problem, the song is using complex rhythm but the map isn't representing it. They're supported in the song by background noises sure, but if you map only the background noises you end up ignoring what makes the song.. the song, which is the problem I have with your rhythm. You can have it be a stream map in all the other places, but this doesn't rhythm doesn't really fit here. This rhythm is also separating the stanzas - they're different phrases. This is also - if I didn't misread - a concept of your map, and it's breaking it

1. 00:51:198 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - sidenote the whistles here overlap each other so annoyingly when they're put on such high bpm 1/4, it actually takes away from the gameplay experience imo so what i would suggest is using a shorter whistle so that they don't overlap as noticeably

Uh.. I jsut disagree. THey're maybe annoying to you, but they fit very well for me.

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg What? They're following the drum. And it really helps to separate this rhythm from the rest of the streams. If it's separating the rhythm you want, you may as well make 00:53:061 (1,2,1,2) - circles instead of 1/4 sliders because what you're doing with these is blending different rhythm 00:53:593 (1,2,1,2) - with the same objects, which is exactly what you're telling me you want to avoid. you even said earlier that "1/2 works better in building up the song."

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream It doesn't lower in intensity. Listen to the 1/4's they are still there. You are basing the "lack of intensity" on the fact that the high piano note is held which is subjective at best. I'm having a hard time understanding how a held piano warrants a stream then, because blending the lower and upper layer of the music for this change is in essence ignoring the separation of these stanzas, which is also, as you said, a concept of your map

00:56:519 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - this ncing seems to be inconsistent with 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - but again my point about rhythm here and other places My bad. But i'm not dq'ing unless theres a valid reason. lets see...

01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds Theyre definitely kicksliders... just listen to the kick rhythm. okay, 01:02:240 (4,5,6) - aren't 1/4 drums in the song after all, your hitsound mislead me. this entire section is 1/2 drums, in which case why not make them all circles instead since, again, you said above "1/2 works better in building up the song."

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow. because the way you have it right now isn't expressing them to the fullest potential, that's why it would be hard to change

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well That's too bad. Uhm, excuse me? Can you at least give me a reason as to why you don't want to do this, instead of saying "That's too bad." and letting it drop?

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams. you have stream everywhere else it's just 3 notes that you'd be sacrificing, and it would improve the emphasis altogether. it's still a stream map

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes It's the same as all the others. I think your idea of intensity just differs from mine. I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc... okay that's a good aim and I respect that but you're sacrificing emphasizing the song itself for making the map challenging. you're misrepresenting the song because you want to just have one massive stream that players have to click that doesn't follow the intensity of the music. emphasizing this would give a challenge, and it would test the players endurance to adapt to this change as well

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo ^ ^

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais That's the idea. it's freedom dive esque in that aspect and i really like it. i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting. but what you're doing is making predictable and uninteresting rhythm that's ignoring the song - the song itself is unpredictable, just look at the places i pointed out where you ignore that unpredictable nature to put in your predictable streams. you're doing the exact thing you want to avoid doing, just without the emphasis part. your rhythm is predictable because it's all 1/4 deathstreams, and it's uninteresting because it's all 1/4 deathstreams.

Minor stuff:

- 00:09:890 (3) - 00:10:821 (2) - missing whistle? No theyre there on purpose. spamming all whistles sounds bad. 3 is consistent with 00:10:821 (2) - anyways.
- 00:20:599 (5,7) - removing the hitsounds here would actually sound better imo since the song has no noticeable drum here Uh no... disagree.
- 00:38:027 (2) - 1/6 here you could have taken advantage of Yea i don' want to xP.

Overall the map in its current state I think does not represent the song in the best way it can and as it stands actually chooses to ignore it in both kiais and through lack of differentiation between instruments in various places. The streams have very little emphasis spacing-wise and the infrequent direction changes, while some are present and work, don't really do much to help the emphasis. The rhythm in the kiai ignores the song pretty obviously especially when the same rhythm as 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - was mapped like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - in a non-kiai section.

[]

Sorry... I think we just have differing views on how intensity should function, and you should really consider the idea behind this map more. Look at Nakagawa kanon's freedom dive. you'll see a lot of aesthetics are borrowed there. as well, the map is a test of consistency and stamina. it's not trying to delegate different spacings to match the exact pitch and intensity of every section of music. It's looking more broadly at whole stanxas, and less narrowly at specific patterns and rhythms.

The stuff I didn't reply to I'm fine with the "explanations" for.

Monstrata, come on.

If you want to compare different maps (which is never a good idea, I think we both know using other maps for justifying things on a different map isn't very solid reasoning) Nakagawa Kanon mapped the melody of Freedom Dive, but you ignore this song's melody. How could you compare that? In Freedom Dive: 01:47:974 - look at this kiai, it follows the melody in the song to a T, it does it consistently and in a challenging way that emphasizes everything in a reasonable way. Your map really isn't doing that very much, and I think you know that.

I'm sorry Monstrata, but I'm inclined to disagree with a lot of what you replied to me with, and the way you replied came across quite condescending. I would appreciate if we could treat each other with a bit of respect here, we're both trying to make this the best map it can be, so let's try to come to a compromise where that's possible.

Making a map to be "like Freedom Dive" is... interesting. Freedom Dive was ranked in mid-2012, and in the 5 years since its ranking (a week ago today), it has garnered the attention of tens of thousands of players: being one of the first maps ever to hold a 700pp play, and the first map ever to have an 800pp score.

However, though this map has stayed one of osu!'s iconic maps throughout the ages (I got into this game after watching cooker's 700pp play on it), its age began to show years ago. Modelling a map after an extremely flawed map that could never make it through The Great Filter the ranking process today won't turn out well, no matter how you try to spin it. There's not much theming going on here at all - it's just making a generic stream map represent a song really well in the sense that both are intolerable.

Is that normal that the diffs got like a lot useless green timing lines? I don't think it's a problem tbh, but just pointing that.
Apart from that, gg to all the gders, and Monstrata for making this ranked

Mir wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

well

i genuinely do have some concerns about the topdiff of this mapset

[Four Dimensions]

00:39:757 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - you drop the emphasis through slight spacing change thing with 00:38:426 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - for some reason here and the song hasn't really changed all that much, the intensity of both instances are similar This is just visuals. The "slight spacing change" isn't being used to create emphasis. You won't feel any emphatic difference when hitting those specific notes because of their spacing. um.. you do feel the difference, this is quite noticeable and does have an impact on gameplay. even if you say it's only aesthetics it's inconsistent with 00:39:491 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - aesthetically too, and since this map's core concept is apparently consistency, that breaks the concept. You feel the difference not because of the spacing but because of the angle shift. The map uses a very consistent rhythm. I use aesthetic changes such as turns and dips in streams to create variety and difficulty in tracking the stream movement.

The kiai at 00:46:941 - ignores so much of the song imo. Especially 00:48:005 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this part as a lot of doubles in it that you could have mapped with 1/4 sliders or something like 00:12:883 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - which would not only represent the song way better but also provide respite from the constant 1/4 clicking. I want this to be a stream map. THey are definitely supported in the song and the rhythm being used is in no way confusing. That's exactly the problem, the song is using complex rhythm but the map isn't representing it. They're supported in the song by background noises sure, but if you map only the background noises you end up ignoring what makes the song.. the song, which is the problem I have with your rhythm. You can have it be a stream map in all the other places, but this doesn't rhythm doesn't really fit here. This rhythm is also separating the stanzas - they're different phrases. This is also - if I didn't misread - a concept of your map, and it's breaking it Just because i'm not following the layer you think is the dominant layer doesn't mean I'm not following the song... Also looking at the rhythms you "want" me to map instead,
there would be very few places where streams would actually fit because the layer you believe is the strongest does not allow for stream mapping, only triplet spam, and that's not something I consider reflective of the song at all.

00:53:061 (1,2) - is also cool as an emphasis tool but then using 1/4 sliders again for 00:54:125 (1,2) - is kind of undermapping it a bit imo, they're noticeable drums and you could have done something like http://i.imgur.com/RlPIw9N.jpg What? They're following the drum. And it really helps to separate this rhythm from the rest of the streams. If it's separating the rhythm you want, you may as well make 00:53:061 (1,2,1,2) - circles instead of 1/4 sliders because what you're doing with these is blending different rhythm 00:53:593 (1,2,1,2) - with the same objects, which is exactly what you're telling me you want to avoid. you even said earlier that "1/2 works better in building up the song." Those examples aren't even related... you're taking my words out of context now. These are fine as kicksliders. They function as 1/2 clicking breaks in between streams and map the drum rhythm here.1-2-3--- 1-2-3--- 1-2-stream...

00:54:923 - from here the song really lowers in intensity but the map doesn't at all, what would fit here is a couple of 1/4 reverses like http://i.imgur.com/bncrIlL.png or something to represent that change in intensity instead of keeping the same intensity stream It doesn't lower in intensity. Listen to the 1/4's they are still there. You are basing the "lack of intensity" on the fact that the high piano note is held which is subjective at best. I'm having a hard time understanding how a held piano warrants a stream then, because blending the lower and upper layer of the music for this change is in essence ignoring the separation of these stanzas, which is also, as you said, a concept of your map Because the piano layer you're following isn't the layer I consider dominant. It's exactly why I don't use triplet spam rhythms too because those rhythms would reflect the piano sound you envision no? Hopefully you see my perspective now. Also just because a sound is held doesn't mean you just map it. You can default to following other sounds, especially if those other sounds are what I consider more dominant to begin with. Slapping a 2/1 slider here is a mistake, i'm sure you can agree.


01:02:240 (4,5,6) - these call for circles imo, differentiation here would work wonders to represent this build up since they look the same as the rest of the 1/4 sliders but cover different sounds Theyre definitely kicksliders... just listen to the kick rhythm. okay, 01:02:240 (4,5,6) - aren't 1/4 drums in the song after all, your hitsound mislead me. this entire section is 1/2 drums, in which case why not make them all circles instead since, again, you said above "1/2 works better in building up the song." Why not make all 1/2 circles? What? Why not make them all kicksliders? It's the same argument... Think of their function rhythmically. It's the 1/2 clicks. The kicksliders are there to maintain intensity because using 1/2 circles feels far too light for this bpm and rhythm density.

01:16:209 - song changes here too, lots of drums introduced but the emphasis doesn't really change. the flow gets sharper sure but i think you could also use spacing emphasis when the drums change intensity as well like 01:17:806 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - compared to 01:18:338 (7,8,9) - and so on I want to keep the pattern consistent. expressing them differently is really awkward for mapping. sure, i can do them differently, but patterning would suffer, as would rhythm and flow. because the way you have it right now isn't expressing them to the fullest potential, that's why it would be hard to change I'm fine with it. I think ht expresses them adequately. Feel free to give me ideas if you think there is a better way to map them that doesn't interfere with my consistent spacing structure and flow. Otherwise I am keeping because all of these 1/3 streams are necessary in this sort of aesthetic because they are trying to constrict mapper's movement through tighter and tighter angles. Breaking structure here for the sake of mapping some drums "more properly" ends up detracting from the player experience here. I don't think theres a need to express these sounds differently because fundamentally,
that would suggest that I am trying to emphasize those sounds, or highlight them, and that's not my intention.

01:32:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you know blue zenith had a cool part at 02:57:434 - 03:02:234 - that pretty much fits what the song is doing here too, but the stream you mapped doesn't really show off the building (or dropping, however you interpret it) intensity very well That's too bad. Uhm, excuse me? Can you at least give me a reason as to why you don't want to do this, instead of saying "That's too bad." and letting it drop? It's just a consistent stream until near the end because only that section is where the song drops slightly in intensity.

01:49:069 (7,8,1) - isn't differentiated either in terms of rhythm, spacing, flow or anything, and there are different sounds here. doing it only with hitsounds is a bit lackluster imo I'm not trying to differentiate.... This is a map about consistency and streams. you have stream everywhere else it's just 3 notes that you'd be sacrificing, and it would improve the emphasis altogether. it's still a stream map Its unnecessary for the same reasons I mentioned earlier with regard to those 1/3 streams. It causes a lot more damage just to follow notes that I don't think are important and worth highlighting anyways. As well, highlighting them is counterintuitive to my rhythm choice to begin with...

01:49:735 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - this is way higher intensity but mapped the same intensity as the rest of the streams, it also has fluctuations on 01:50:200 (8,1) - that aren't emphasized at all synth-wise. 01:51:863 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - is really really underdone it's not shown off at all and the synth is going crazy and the drums are all over the place but.. the stream is the same spacing and has very few direction changes It's the same as all the others. I think your idea of intensity just differs from mine. I want a consistent map that test player's endurance, tests their ability to continue consistently getting 300's, follow the freedom-dive esque aesthetic streams etc... okay that's a good aim and I respect that but you're sacrificing emphasizing the song itself for making the map challenging. you're misrepresenting the song because you want to just have one massive stream that players have to click that doesn't follow the intensity of the music. emphasizing this would give a challenge, and it would test the players endurance to adapt to this change as well I think i'm interpretting it just fine. There is no correct way to interpret the song. I disagree strongly with how you think it should be interpreted. You are welcome to map your own version if you believe my interpretation won't express the song the best. But my interpretation has strong ideas and mapping techniques behind it too. Please don't discredit my map just because you disagree with it.

01:55:056 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - outro stream but it's the same spacing throughout, the piano even peaks at 01:56:120 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - but isn't shown off at all, it's the highest pitch the piano is ever going to get. also 01:55:854 - why does the hitsound volume decrease on such an intense part? it's not as major but yeah it sound be constant volume imo ^ ^ ^

A lot of the direction changes feel quite arbitrary or just don't exist. 00:52:794 (1) - would be grounds for a direction change. yet 00:59:712 (1,5) - 1 has a strong sound so direction change here is good, but 5 doesn't really and they change at the nearly the same angle. 00:54:391 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - changes slightly on what seems to be the 7 but the stronger note is on the 00:54:923 (9) - and so forth, this happens in a lot of places in both kiais That's the idea. it's freedom dive esque in that aspect and i really like it. i think streams nowadays respect emphasis way too much and it causes right hand rhythm to be really predictable and uninteresting. but what you're doing is making predictable and uninteresting rhythm that's ignoring the song - the song itself is unpredictable, just look at the places i pointed out where you ignore that unpredictable nature to put in your predictable streams. you're doing the exact thing you want to avoid doing, just without the emphasis part. your rhythm is predictable because it's all 1/4 deathstreams, and it's uninteresting because it's all 1/4 deathstreams. Similar to what I already stated earlier.


[]

Sorry... I think we just have differing views on how intensity should function, and you should really consider the idea behind this map more. Look at Nakagawa kanon's freedom dive. you'll see a lot of aesthetics are borrowed there. as well, the map is a test of consistency and stamina. it's not trying to delegate different spacings to match the exact pitch and intensity of every section of music. It's looking more broadly at whole stanxas, and less narrowly at specific patterns and rhythms.

The stuff I didn't reply to I'm fine with the "explanations" for.

Monstrata, come on.

If you want to compare different maps (which is never a good idea, I think we both know using other maps for justifying things on a different map isn't very solid reasoning) Nakagawa Kanon mapped the melody of Freedom Dive, but you ignore this song's melody. How could you compare that? In Freedom Dive: 01:47:974 - look at this kiai, it follows the melody in the song to a T, it does it consistently and in a challenging way that emphasizes everything in a reasonable way. Your map really isn't doing that very much, and I think you know that.

I'm sorry Monstrata, but I'm inclined to disagree with a lot of what you replied to me with, and the way you replied came across quite condescending. I would appreciate if we could treat each other with a bit of respect here, we're both trying to make this the best map it can be, so let's try to come to a compromise where that's possible.

[]

You really missed the point of my map, and are modding it with the idea that what you think is the dominant layer is the correct thing to follow. Your interpretation of the song just differs completely from mine. If i come across as condescending, it's because I'm replying to your view that you think what you are following is the correct method, and mine is incorrect. I really urge you to consider it from my perspective first. The concept is evidently not flawed. If you want to improve it, improve it from how I want it mapped, that's how you make a map better. If you simply disagree, then there's not much we can say because that's simply a disagreement in mapping philosophies. I'm taking the time to explain what my intentions are because you took the time to write out this mod, but you aren't considering it from my perspective .

Mun wrote:

Making a map to be "like Freedom Dive" is... interesting. Freedom Dive was ranked in mid-2012, and in the 5 years since its ranking (a week ago today), it has garnered the attention of tens of thousands of players: being one of the first maps ever to hold a 700pp play, and the first map ever to have an 800pp score.

However, though this map has stayed one of osu!'s iconic maps throughout the ages (I got into this game after watching cooker's 700pp play on it), its age began to show years ago. Modelling a map after an extremely flawed map that could never make it through The Great Filter the ranking process today won't turn out well, no matter how you try to spin it. There's not much theming going on here at all - it's just making a generic stream map represent a song really well in the sense that both are intolerable.

I'm not using Freedom dive as an excuse for why I think this map is also rankable. That's just wrong . Freedom dive was the inspiration, and this map was created with freedom dive's stream aesthetics in mind. everything else is me.

theres nothing super bad with this map, cmon guys
he mapped backgrounds cuz he wanted to, yes it doesnt really work but well, its his right to do w/e he wants if its inside the borders of rc

i dont see any significant problems here except hitsounding, but who cares, everyone uses their own skins with hitsounds

its just another mediocre map, let it go

hi-mei wrote:

theres nothing super bad with this map, cmon guys
he mapped backgrounds cuz he wanted to, yes it doesnt really work but well, its his right to do w/e he wants if its inside the borders of rc

i dont see any significant problems here except hitsounding, but who cares, everyone uses their own skins with hitsounds

its just another mediocre map, let it go

posts like this is why the ranked section is filled with maps that are only barely rankable and don't incite mappers to improve their work at all, gg

But Monstratita is right a mapper is free to follow any track that they want, so you need to take that in mind before modding something

BN Battle 2017
Mir vs Natsu & Monstrata

7:00 PM at Staples Center

Natsu wrote:

But Monstratita is right a mapper is free to follow any track that they want, so you need to take that in mind before modding something

A mapper reserves their right to make a map below their capabilities.

Everyone else reserves the right to point this out to said mapper.


You should really, really, really be familiar with these lines of thought, Natsu.

congrats meme mapper

Having a different perspective and interpretation doesn't mean they are equally ideal for the ranked section.

You feel the difference not because of the spacing but because of the angle shift. The map uses a very consistent rhythm. I use aesthetic changes such as turns and dips in streams to create variety and difficulty in tracking the stream movement.

These "dips" and "turns" do create variety and difficulty, but it barely follows the song in a consistent manner. As such, both the difficulty as well as the aesthetics become incoherent and unrepresentative of the song, which is the core of the problem.

Just because i'm not following the layer you think is the dominant layer doesn't mean I'm not following the song... Also looking at the rhythms you "want" me to map instead,
there would be very few places where streams would actually fit because the layer you believe is the strongest does not allow for stream mapping, only triplet spam, and that's not something I consider reflective of the song at all.

Generally the most prominent layer is what makes the song what it is. The problem isn't your rhythm choice, the problem is that a lot of the details in the song are ignored without the slightest indication that anything is different. You may argue that some angle changes or flow turns, but since these are already done incoherently, that connection is unlikely to be drawn. This in turn becomes detrimental to the map's overall quality.

Those examples aren't even related... you're taking my words out of context now. These are fine as kicksliders. They function as 1/2 clicking breaks in between streams and map the drum rhythm here.1-2-3--- 1-2-3--- 1-2-stream...

Mir is not taking your words out of context, the examples are actually related. The point of focus here is the comparison between the map and the song. the previous 1/2s reflect drums each 1/1. These, however, reflect drums on each 1/2. This is why circles were suggested to reflect that difference.

Because the piano layer you're following isn't the layer I consider dominant. It's exactly why I don't use triplet spam rhythms too because those rhythms would reflect the piano sound you envision no? Hopefully you see my perspective now. Also just because a sound is held doesn't mean you just map it. You can default to following other sounds, especially if those other sounds are what I consider more dominant to begin with. Slapping a 2/1 slider here is a mistake, i'm sure you can agree.

Slapping a 2/1 here isn't what was suggested, because that would completely ignore the background layer. Mir specifically suggested 1/4 reverse sliders in order to cover both layers while giving emphasis to the most dominant one in order to represent the song more accurately. You may argue that this wouldn't be consistent, but that's only because you mapped everything else with the same mindset as you did these, and doesn't retract from the initial argument.

I'm fine with it. I think ht expresses them adequately. Feel free to give me ideas if you think there is a better way to map them that doesn't interfere with my consistent spacing structure and flow. Otherwise I am keeping because all of these 1/3 streams are necessary in this sort of aesthetic because they are trying to constrict mapper's movement through tighter and tighter angles. Breaking structure here for the sake of mapping some drums "more properly" ends up detracting from the player experience here. I don't think theres a need to express these sounds differently because fundamentally, that would suggest that I am trying to emphasize those sounds, or highlight them, and that's not my intention.

There's really no need to break structure at all, you could potentially just lower the spacing between 01:13:548 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - and any other 1/3 stream until the point that the drums kick in. That way the map would actually imply that something is different from the previous streams. Not wanting to emphasize those sounds is essentially just ignoring that they're there in other words, which would be unrepresentative of the song.

It's just a consistent stream until near the end because only that section is where the song drops slightly in intensity.

The argument for the above point also applies here. By intentionally implying that nothing changes, the map is basically ignoring that the drums in the song are now completely gone. The same idea can be applied to the way the piano is completely ignored for the sake molding the map into what you imagined it would be, without respect for what the song itself is actually expressing.

Its unnecessary for the same reasons I mentioned earlier with regard to those 1/3 streams. It causes a lot more damage just to follow notes that I don't think are important and worth highlighting anyways. As well, highlighting them is counterintuitive to my rhythm choice to begin with...

You assume that the only way to reflect these is through rhythm and fear that any change made in this regard will no longer make your map worthy of the title "stream map", when in reality you can do so through the many other aspects given in the game. Just think of spacing, flow, angle changes, etc. The things you used to give visual charm and difficulty can also be used reflectively. There's no need to ignore the song to make these come alive. Problem with implementing it now, with the map in it's current state, is that it would lack contrast due to the way these concepts are previously incoherent. You may assume that implementing this, as you assume I am envisioning it, would be even more counter-intuitive, but this is where mapping skill shines most.

I think i'm interpretting it just fine. There is no correct way to interpret the song. I disagree strongly with how you think it should be interpreted. You are welcome to map your own version if you believe my interpretation won't express the song the best. But my interpretation has strong ideas and mapping techniques behind it too. Please don't discredit my map just because you disagree with it.

Mir's intent is not to discredit your map, it is to help you improve it before it's too late. There may be no correct way to interpret or map a song, but there are certainly ways that are better than others in many perspectives; otherwise there wouldn't be a need for a ranked section or ranking system. Encouraging Mir to map their own version is just irrelevant and irresponsible at best. How strongly you disagree does not matter in a discussion. What matters is how you argue for your cause. Solely disagreeing really only ends it with Mir's argument unanswered.


Seriously, just because something is rankable doesn't mean it should be ranked. Just because something is subjective doesn't mean it's invalid. Just because you disagree with a perspective doesn't mean you should ignore it's arguments. At least discuss it properly instead of saying that their standpoint is different from yours and leaving it at that.

I did? I think you're making a really big assumption that I'm just saying "we have different viewpoints, therefore there is no discussion". I clearly explained the concepts I utilized on the highest difficulty. Mir is operating on the idea that the kiais should follow the high piano rhythm as the dominant layer. Fundamentally, we disagree on that notion because I don't believe the high piano layer is the dominant layer. The track is incredibly rich in layers. If you look at Mir's suggestions, they all involve mapping the high piano layer which he believes is dominant. Because we fundamentally disagree on the correct layers, it's very difficult for me to discuss every point he brings up without at least referencing our fundamental disagreement.

Suggestions like "why didn't you map this / why didn't you highlight these specific notes / why didn't you emphasize this particular high piano note" all make the assumption that the high piano layer is the layer I should be following. Hopefully you can see why this won't work. It's making an incorrect assumption that the high piano layer is the layer that should be followed, and building a mod around fixing my map to reflect the high piano layer.

last diff, just a little question

1. 00:46:941 - until 00:58:315 - respecting the stronger song of the drums, making 1/4 slider jumps when necessary, like 00:50:666 (1,2,3,4) - and still ignoring piano songs like 00:53:526 - 00:54:058 - for gives more emphasis in the drums,
2. 00:58:382 - until the end of first kiai - certainly not following the drums, with clearly ignored in 01:00:644 - until 01:01:708 - with musically speaking are the same beat than 00:53:061 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - for example.

Can you explain, in your perspective, why this inconsistency? Because, in my opinion, the map must be at least consistent with moments that are musically the same, there's no why you add these notes for example 00:58:382 (1,2) - and being completely unstable with 00:49:868 (5,6,7,8) - that is the same song (you have added a normal sample clap in here 00:58:515 (2) - just because is a sliderjump? and in 00:50:000 (7) - that is the same song there aren't these hitsounds).

Tarrasky wrote:

last diff, just a little question

1. 00:46:941 - until 00:58:315 - respecting the stronger song of the drums, making 1/4 slider jumps when necessary, like 00:50:666 (1,2,3,4) - and still ignoring piano songs like 00:53:526 - 00:54:058 - for gives more emphasis in the drums,
2. 00:58:382 - until the end of first kiai - certainly not following the drums, with clearly ignored in 01:00:644 - until 01:01:708 - with musically speaking are the same beat than 00:53:061 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - for example.

Can you explain, in your perspective, why this inconsistency? Because, in my opinion, the map must be at least consistent with moments that are musically the same, there's no why you add these notes for example 00:58:382 (1,2) - and being completely unstable with 00:49:868 (5,6,7,8) - that is the same song (you have added a normal sample clap in here 00:58:515 (2) - just because is a sliderjump? and in 00:50:000 (7) - that is the same song there aren't these hitsounds).

I thought the first kiai was still easy enough to allow for some variable rhythm. The first kiai's track isn't as consistent as the second kiai too. For example 00:50:666 (1,2,3,4) - as you pointed out, is the only place where there's four kicks in a row. Second kiai is completely consistent though so it's mapped as such. Well, anyways, i appreciate that you are pointing out inconsistencies with my map's idea intact. I don't think it's necessary to change this since 98% of the map is consistent so its okay to variate a bit on the first kiai, but this is something I can fix if we find something worth dq'ing in the future. I feel changing this would just be "different" and not "better" basically, so I'd prefer to leave it, but thanks.

I thought in 2017 arguments like "its my style u dont understand" doesnt work?

i mean, yea these mods are the same like "ure style is shit i dont like it" but its not like one person said that, its a lot of people seeing a problem with it

and also it brings up a question, like

do you really know what youre doing?

its not a map you can play, or a map that people can play
its map for 5-10 guys in the entire community who can properly estimate it, or to be real, for 1 person


i still think this map is decent, not great, the mapper doesnt really understand the music hes mapping but its above "shit" threshold
so gz on rank i guess?