well i think this map is decent to be reanked.
but for real there will be no players to actually play this (or even pass)
but for real there will be no players to actually play this (or even pass)
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MAXIMUM THE HORMONE - A-L-I-E-N
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Pacemaker wrote:
Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to meEnkidu wrote:
Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.
Again, not really. The point of mapping is to map a song the way you /feel/ it should be mapped. If someone feels like a map should be ugly, they should map it to look ugly.
DiamondRain
Pacemaker wrote:
Wtf does that even mean. Collectively hating/liking something does not equal circlejerking. Even good mappers get shit ratings when they fuck upfieryrage wrote:
Hey, guys, user rating means literally nothing because half of the time it ends up in a circlejerk instead of showcasing the actual map quality.
just saying
What it means? It just means that this beatmap was specifically targeted by the osu reddit community to downvote it, if you dont see that, then you're a sad person with low intellect, which you are anyways when I look at your poor attempts to "burn" people. Idk this map, don't really care either but hating on something just because it gets qualified is just stupid. I don't go around and tell people to stop eating tomatoes just because I don't like them.
What's so damn hard in avoiding something you don't like? Your opinion isnt superior to anyone else's so don't act like you're some godsent messias.
Can we stay on topic and either speak about the map itself in a constructive way or leave the thread?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
I'll just leave my 2 cents here as someone who's seen a lot of shit in the past 4 years, has been an avid player, mapped about 100~ different mapsets (not including the maps where I just started the first few seconds only to drop it afterwards), and has modded all kinds of different maps to varying degrees of success.
Looking at this this map, there's one thing no one can deny: It's mapped entirely for the novelty of the speed, slider velocity and erratic movements, as well as ridiculous difficulty.
This is not an inherently bad thing. There have been many people who have done similar things, and there's generally always some kind of backlash, just like with this here.
I think that if this concept is explored and executed properly and with caution, it can result in high quality mapping just like any other.
However I feel that this is not the case here. The concept and idea is fine, but the execution is sloppy. The hitobject placement, the patterns and sliders are deliberately unappealing to make the map has as much of a disjointed feeling as the music. To me, this is rather lazy. Just because the music is fast paced and wild doesn't mean you have to make the mapping ugly to make it fitting. It's not like there's no continuity or consistency in the music, so having the quite literally jumpo around in patterns randomly doesn't seem approppriate to me. Finding the right balance between,clean fast paced jump patterns and literally just putting back and forth fullscreen jumps is something that would increase this maps quality I think.
Then there's the second half of the song, i.e. 02:57:257 - and onward. I feel like going with your idea of mapping you would want this to be much more clean than the previous half because of the contrast in tone and you kiiinda did that by not using those stupid (sorry) sliders anymore, but then you mess up easy blankets like 03:16:894 (5,1) - which feels really offputting, or rather, lazy. Overall it feels like the second half was lacking in concept and just rushed to finish the diff quickly.
Then there's the issue of overmapping. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Honestly I have absolutely no idea what you're even trying to do with these. As far as my ears are concerned, there's no 1/4 going on here, and even if you're just going for emphasis on the "vocals", this sounds REALLY awkward, especially since the hitsounds on the slidertails are of the same strength than those on the sliderheads. This literally screams "yeah for the lulz". It isn't supported by the music in any way and should frankly be completely trashed before this map is going for actual ranking. That would apply 02:26:362 - to this entire section of course.
Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
Looking at this this map, there's one thing no one can deny: It's mapped entirely for the novelty of the speed, slider velocity and erratic movements, as well as ridiculous difficulty.
This is not an inherently bad thing. There have been many people who have done similar things, and there's generally always some kind of backlash, just like with this here.
I think that if this concept is explored and executed properly and with caution, it can result in high quality mapping just like any other.
However I feel that this is not the case here. The concept and idea is fine, but the execution is sloppy. The hitobject placement, the patterns and sliders are deliberately unappealing to make the map has as much of a disjointed feeling as the music. To me, this is rather lazy. Just because the music is fast paced and wild doesn't mean you have to make the mapping ugly to make it fitting. It's not like there's no continuity or consistency in the music, so having the quite literally jumpo around in patterns randomly doesn't seem approppriate to me. Finding the right balance between,clean fast paced jump patterns and literally just putting back and forth fullscreen jumps is something that would increase this maps quality I think.
Then there's the second half of the song, i.e. 02:57:257 - and onward. I feel like going with your idea of mapping you would want this to be much more clean than the previous half because of the contrast in tone and you kiiinda did that by not using those stupid (sorry) sliders anymore, but then you mess up easy blankets like 03:16:894 (5,1) - which feels really offputting, or rather, lazy. Overall it feels like the second half was lacking in concept and just rushed to finish the diff quickly.
Then there's the issue of overmapping. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Honestly I have absolutely no idea what you're even trying to do with these. As far as my ears are concerned, there's no 1/4 going on here, and even if you're just going for emphasis on the "vocals", this sounds REALLY awkward, especially since the hitsounds on the slidertails are of the same strength than those on the sliderheads. This literally screams "yeah for the lulz". It isn't supported by the music in any way and should frankly be completely trashed before this map is going for actual ranking. That would apply 02:26:362 - to this entire section of course.
Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.UrnuryMegiken wrote:
Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
so is the "4:48 drain time" a glitch?Bakari wrote:
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.UrnuryMegiken wrote:
Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
No, osu! site just doesn't take into account final spinners in any map.Ora wrote:
so is the "4:48 drain time" a glitch?Bakari wrote:
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.
I'm gonna be frank here and say that this argument has no place in a beatmap-thread. This is an issue with the ranking system, so take this argument where it belongs and away from here. If the map is rankable, it deserves to be ranked. I feel like many people here are getting sidetracked. I don't care if this is monstrata's or anyone's map, and neither should you, if you want to retain any sense of objectivity. You should look at the map and criticize it as a map - not as "a message that you believe monstrata sends to other mappers and that can only be understood by looking at the bigger picture, aka a flawed ranking system that favors certain mappers more than others".Zare wrote:
Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
It's a map, and a good one at that. Not a pretty map, for most people also not a playable map, but hey. I hope it gets ranked and I hope I can be a good enough player to take it on some day.
Hence my point that this map could be much better if it had gotten the proper treament in development. I think it could be high quality and suitable for ranking, but isn't. I merely expanded on this and it's reason.Railey2 wrote:
I'm gonna be frank here and say that this argument has no place in a beatmap-thread. This is an issue with the ranking system, so take this argument where it belongs and away from here. If the map is rankable, it deserves to be ranked. I feel like many people here are getting sidetracked. I don't care if this is monstrata's or anyone's map, and neither should you, if you want to retain any sense of objectivity. You should look at the map and criticize it as a map - not as "a message that you believe monstrata sends to other mappers and that can only be understood by looking at the bigger picture, aka a flawed ranking system that favors certain mappers more than others".Zare wrote:
Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
It's a map, and a good one at that. Not a pretty map, for most people also not a playable map, but hey. I hope it gets ranked and I hope I can be a good enough player to take it on some day.
my opinion is barely worth anything, but i honestly feel like it's just a weird song to map
it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.
it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.
i love the song 
If you cut out the slow part, it'd sound really weird to have it end so abruptly.dreamless wrote:
my opinion is barely worth anything, but i honestly feel like it's just a weird song to map
it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?Bakari wrote:
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.UrnuryMegiken wrote:
Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
Looking through the map, I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.
Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.
EDIT:
Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.
EDIT:
I am curious about this.hoozimajiget wrote:
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
00:21:206 (1,2) - aww this nc setting didn't felt cool enough. Starting at (2) would've divided the 1/3 and the 1/2 better, and fit the new vocals better. Didn't spotted that b4.
Monstrata artificially added the applause at the end.IamKwaN wrote:
EDIT:I am curious about this.hoozimajiget wrote:
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
most people might gave this red vote because of how something like this can be qualified in a few months while there are many, i mean many good maps that is waiting on the pending section. even fort told me that every BN is afraid to qualify his map even though most people playing it gave positive feedbacksPacemaker wrote:
There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason
This is a very vague DQ reason "I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.", it gives the mapper very vague direction on how to make the map rankable again lol.IamKwaN wrote:
Looking through the map, I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.
Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.
EDIT:I am curious about this.hoozimajiget wrote:
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?the answer is in the question!
"artificially generated length"
how neat is that? (fucking hell...
)
Topic Starter
I'll give a reply to all mods tomorrow~ Thanks for the dq KwaN. It was going to happen anyways haha.
The song length is extended slightly, though the applause is actually part of the song, on the album version. I just did some tasteful editing.
The song length is extended slightly, though the applause is actually part of the song, on the album version. I just did some tasteful editing.
I would say it's not an issue of rankability. It is the community having opinions on the map. We, the QAT, going through the report and found it valid, so we disqualify. Mapper has to discuss with the community on previous (and some future) mods.Chippy wrote:
This is a very vague DQ reason "I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.", it gives the mapper very vague direction on how to make the map rankable again lol.
So, if you have something contribute to the map, please do not wait!
isn't that the same thing as what's uploaded on BSS with the hitsounds replaced? I think you're mistaken because your diff is in the same folder and those hitsounds got replaced for both
Topic Starter
deetz wrote:
that's the same thing as what's uploaded on BSS with the hitsounds replaced! I think you're mistaken because your diff is in the same folder and those hitsounds got replaced for both
Stuff like this is REALLY bugging me. Monstrata said he's gonna take a look at 2 of the posts in-depth because they can be issues. For every other post, he declined every point with concrete reasoning.Noah Alcubierre wrote:
I'd have personally preferred that current mods are not simply entirely rejected in sake of defending the qualification status of the map but instead noted and considered as a real suggestion in case this map gets dq'd so the map COULD be better in a way that the community won't spam a load of "fuck you"s at the map.
Just because someone modded your map doesn't mean their points are valid!!11!1
*screams*
Honestly this is the biggest reason this map shouldn't be ranked. Even if you can provide a compelling argument otherwise, it still remains the case that this style is indistinguishable from that of a beginning mapper for the vast majority of players.Natsu wrote:
I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.Monstrata wrote:
Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.
Skipping the wall of text and getting straight to the point, just because something is rankable, fun, and is somewhat playable doesn't mean it's a good idea to rank it. It takes a maturity level I honestly don't expect from you in order to own up to this. Have fun with your memes I guess.
Edit: For clarification by shouldn't be ranked I mean monstrata himself choosing not to rank his own map.
I'm just thinking that you can start mapping Tag4 and refer to this for the "the jumps are rankable" argument... Besides imo a song that's clearly below 5 minutes should not be boosted to longer duration just so you don't need to provide a full spread of difficulties.chainpullz wrote:
Honestly this is the biggest reason this map shouldn't be ranked. Even if you can provide a compelling argument otherwise, it still remains the case that this style is indistinguishable from that of a beginning mapper for the vast majority of players.Natsu wrote:
I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.
Skipping the wall of text and getting straight to the point, just because something is rankable, fun, and is somewhat playable doesn't mean it's a good idea to rank it. It takes a maturity level I honestly don't expect from you in order to own up to this. Have fun with your memes I guess.
I've played this on ht and hthr, and IMO the jumps don't feel like "tag4" jumps at all. they're fast, sure, but that's simply because of the sheer speed of the song. I think the map is overall pretty enjoyable even if it's incredibly hard
not sure if the community is ready for this type of difficulty. i mean, only a few people (perhaps) can play it
imo the map aethestically looks like someone experimented way too much and it ended up looking... kinda bad. but it looks like you tried giving the map personality or something
imo the map aethestically looks like someone experimented way too much and it ended up looking... kinda bad. but it looks like you tried giving the map personality or something
well, i'm ok with this map and its ugliness because i understand it somehow lol
but only one thing i want to argue about is an Approach Rate or AR. yeah, i've read your dialogue with broccoly about AR choice (which can be found here btw p/5253277) but you guys seemed to discuss about AR generally, not in the map's context. your map contains many overlaps and crossings and over type of stuff which is may be hard to read. for example, this pattern 02:46:793 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - . it looks like a FUCKING MESS with ar9.7. i tried it with both ARs and yeah, AR10 was the best. same thing applies to 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - and maybe a few other patterns.
you also said
and sorry for a few «strong» words, just couldn't find the other proper and emotional words
but only one thing i want to argue about is an Approach Rate or AR. yeah, i've read your dialogue with broccoly about AR choice (which can be found here btw p/5253277) but you guys seemed to discuss about AR generally, not in the map's context. your map contains many overlaps and crossings and over type of stuff which is may be hard to read. for example, this pattern 02:46:793 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - . it looks like a FUCKING MESS with ar9.7. i tried it with both ARs and yeah, AR10 was the best. same thing applies to 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - and maybe a few other patterns.
you also said
man, what fun you were talking about when a few patterns are so damn hard to read? and «i can't read it» argument is invalid as fuck because it's not about what you can read or not read, it's about what other players can read. btw there is no fun when there are some clearly unreadable moments in the map.Monstrata wrote:
like, i would play this map for fun, but the AR 10 would turn me off cuz i can't read it and neither can a lot of people
and sorry for a few «strong» words, just couldn't find the other proper and emotional words
Only a really small portion of the community can actually pass this, I can't really see how some players can enjoy these types of maps without even beeing able to play them properly, but that's not my main focus.
Putting no fail on and playing this just feels sloppy and most patterns / sliders feel off in terms of flow, I don't care if it's intended or not, I can't understand why someone would do a bad job on purpose?! Sorry to say it but estellia's joke remap felt a lot better to play simply because patterns made sense and it flowed a lot better, plus the normal sliders. I'm not saying this for the star difficulty of the map, I gave value to maps like Apparition and Time Freeze because they have perfectly sensical patterns, even though I can't pass them either, but this doesn't feel the same.
I love some of your maps Monstrata, and I rated some of them a 10 like Akaito and Hikouki Gumo or the EOS remix but based on my opinion I'd rate this map a clear 1 just like I did with the Delta triangles map, because they feel like a joke and nothing else. Just my 2 cents.
Putting no fail on and playing this just feels sloppy and most patterns / sliders feel off in terms of flow, I don't care if it's intended or not, I can't understand why someone would do a bad job on purpose?! Sorry to say it but estellia's joke remap felt a lot better to play simply because patterns made sense and it flowed a lot better, plus the normal sliders. I'm not saying this for the star difficulty of the map, I gave value to maps like Apparition and Time Freeze because they have perfectly sensical patterns, even though I can't pass them either, but this doesn't feel the same.
I love some of your maps Monstrata, and I rated some of them a 10 like Akaito and Hikouki Gumo or the EOS remix but based on my opinion I'd rate this map a clear 1 just like I did with the Delta triangles map, because they feel like a joke and nothing else. Just my 2 cents.
Let's summarize it:
- Editing the Mp3 file to reach the five minute mark is rankable and never have been a problem before. If you disagree with this, please participate here to discuss out this and refrain to post here about the lenght, this thread is to improve the beatmap and not argue about a potential unrankable point - which is a general thing and not related to the beatmap itself.
- Spinners aren't added into the Drain time on the website so you need to check the beatmap at in-game - which shows exactly 5:00.
- Original Song is 4:46 long but mapper extended it at the begin,
Reference to the extend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdwT5JlH8gM - Shitting on the mapper and his work won't bring you anywhere, don't try it and post if you have something important to say.
00:27:409 (1) - http://puu.sh/pPXOn/56248ba69f.jpg this slider looks like it plays terrible, and the slider ticks don't make up for what you removed from the song by having this slider here.
But it's mainly the second half of the slider that feels over extended, http://puu.sh/pPXRP/f890f0e857.jpg
You could make the slide a repeating slider and keep it "ugly"
I also feel like if you want to ignore them a little bit but making such a slider, could use a technique for staccato and make a gap in between the music
http://puu.sh/pPY2K/7c3d9f3108.jpg
Same as above applies to this slider 01:33:991 (1) -
I also think the sliders should be a bit more consistent to the music, it really does looks random, but the music is the same, its not like the slider should change shape every single time.. the music does repeat its self, actually so does the lyrics.. quite a bit actually, i think that itself calls for consistency (yeah the sliders being ugly is consistent) but it could be more consistent..
you could map 01:06:090 (1) - all the spinners similar to this, think it would be much more interesting to map the break down rather than provide a spinning feel when playing it.
I have to work now.. but i can look more in depth when i get home and try to help.. hope could help at all ;w;
(if you have already replied to any of this i am also sorry because i havn't been able to 100% keep up with the thread)
have a nice day/evening
But it's mainly the second half of the slider that feels over extended, http://puu.sh/pPXRP/f890f0e857.jpg
You could make the slide a repeating slider and keep it "ugly"
I also feel like if you want to ignore them a little bit but making such a slider, could use a technique for staccato and make a gap in between the music
http://puu.sh/pPY2K/7c3d9f3108.jpg
Same as above applies to this slider 01:33:991 (1) -
I also think the sliders should be a bit more consistent to the music, it really does looks random, but the music is the same, its not like the slider should change shape every single time.. the music does repeat its self, actually so does the lyrics.. quite a bit actually, i think that itself calls for consistency (yeah the sliders being ugly is consistent) but it could be more consistent..
you could map 01:06:090 (1) - all the spinners similar to this, think it would be much more interesting to map the break down rather than provide a spinning feel when playing it.
I have to work now.. but i can look more in depth when i get home and try to help.. hope could help at all ;w;
(if you have already replied to any of this i am also sorry because i havn't been able to 100% keep up with the thread)
have a nice day/evening
Okay
First, increase the OD to 9.6
It's currently OD 9.4, which allows Notelocking to happen for maps over BPM of 282,50 (refer to t/334458)
Some parts are 286 BPM. If you set OD to 9.5, BPM of 285 is fine, but 286 is barely out
9.6 would make much more sense (and playability, 9.6 isn't that much harder than 9.4)
[Diff]
00:17:766 (1,2,3,4) - You are aiming at ugly, so why is this perfectly symmetrical...
00:26:553 (1,2,3,4) - Why not make all of these sliders slightly increase in SV? The music gets much more intense, and deservse those changes
00:27:409 (1) - Keeping your mindset, this slider is way too pretty. A blanket? Oh hell no (talking about the end with the red node above it), try something as ugly as this (also gives better flow to the next slider, so yey)
00:32:760 (3,1) - This jump is absolutely nuts. (3) has a reverse at the red tick, so the earliest you can let go of this is after that point. This gives less than 1/2 (at 280 BPM) to hit the slider which moves at high speed, back to (3)
00:34:903 - I swear I can hear some sounds here...
00:39:852 (6) - Please, no offbeat sliders (applies to the next slider as well)
00:40:172 (1) - Fits the music much better if it's a 1/1 slider, due to it being offbeat (from red tick to red tick)
00:43:047 (4) - NC, for the DDEDEDEDE
00:44:770 (5) - 00:46:484 (3) - 00:48:192 (3) - ^^
00:48:192 (3) - Why on earth is this 1/4 while the other similar sounds are 1/2?
00:53:425 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - This looks... not ugly...
00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Wait... I thought only Fort would ever do something as this
01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Are you sure you are not Fort?
01:33:991 (1,2) - Seriously...
01:35:915 (4) - NC, refer to above
01:37:630 (5) - ^^
01:39:344 (5) - ^^
01:36:505 (2,6,2) - Is it just me, or are these the only triplets in the whole map? Don't you think 1/4 sldiers (with reverses please
) would work better?
01:41:847 (2) - Please have an NC, to distinguish between "oriental" and "deathmetal"
01:43:163 (2) - 01:44:275 (2) - 01:45:997 (2) - 01:46:857 (2) - 01:47:522 (2) - 01:50:303 (2) - 01:51:166 (2) - 01:51:830 (2) - ^^
01:43:716 (2) - 01:44:794 (2) - 01:48:020 (2,3) - 01:49:098 (2,3) - 01:52:363 (2) - Give them NC, for more emphasis on the metal part
01:47:749 (3) - Add a circle (close to the next slider)
01:59:570 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - I LOVE how you made this, since it's a "normal" part, so you also mapped it properly ^_^
02:04:045 (1,2) - Since this part is actually pretty, why not blanket this?
02:04:611 (3,1) - ^^
02:13:881 (2,3) - It might be only me, but these sounds shouldt imo all get an NC (though it might fuck up reading, so... up to you)
02:15:026 (1) - OMG WIGGLE
02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - Okay what the actual fuck
02:30:599 (9) - You NC slider #9 in the previous 2 patterns, but not here... NC this please
02:32:313 (9) - ^^
02:31:028 (1,1) - Please remember what I said about sliderjumps, when the slider has a reverse. Due to the reverse, the leniency goes away, so this is technically a 1/3-1/4 jump (which is like half screen)
02:33:171 (1) - This literally calls for an ugly slider, yet you make a boring one...
02:39:407 (9) - If you listen really carefully, you'll hear that the music is just a triplet, not a quintuplet, please remove this note
02:42:960 (9) - ^^
02:53:686 (1) - Can people even follow the slider? Since it's soo long, people are forced to move along with the slider...
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1) - Isn't this a bit overboard...
-----------------------------
03:05:329 (1) - You use a 1/1 slider + 1 circle at the red tick in the previous parts, yet the music is the same, but here you have a 3/2 slider. Why not make it consistent?
03:07:390 (1) - ^^
03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - It might be of the rotation, but something's a bit weird if you select them all. They are not properly aligned. (2) is a straight line with a few wiggles, and (4) is in a curve. Just something I found weird when I looked at it
04:06:081 (5) - You Always NC the first slider with "Stop", yet you didn't NC this (while you did NC 04:06:581 (1) -
04:25:863 (2) - Feels a bit forced, and not following the rhythm, please stick to regular 1/2 here, instead of a 1/4 stack
04:33:754 (1,1,1,1) - This is amazing
Honestly, the map isn't bad. It really fits with the song. The only issue I'd have are the 1/4 sliderspams (but hey, I can't play this, so who am I to say stuff?)
I'd advise you to get a lot of testplays from the top 100 (top 10 would be even better), since that'd be soooo much more valueable for high-tier difficulties than normal mods
Good luck!
First, increase the OD to 9.6
It's currently OD 9.4, which allows Notelocking to happen for maps over BPM of 282,50 (refer to t/334458)
Some parts are 286 BPM. If you set OD to 9.5, BPM of 285 is fine, but 286 is barely out
9.6 would make much more sense (and playability, 9.6 isn't that much harder than 9.4)
[Diff]
00:17:766 (1,2,3,4) - You are aiming at ugly, so why is this perfectly symmetrical...
00:26:553 (1,2,3,4) - Why not make all of these sliders slightly increase in SV? The music gets much more intense, and deservse those changes
00:27:409 (1) - Keeping your mindset, this slider is way too pretty. A blanket? Oh hell no (talking about the end with the red node above it), try something as ugly as this (also gives better flow to the next slider, so yey)
00:32:760 (3,1) - This jump is absolutely nuts. (3) has a reverse at the red tick, so the earliest you can let go of this is after that point. This gives less than 1/2 (at 280 BPM) to hit the slider which moves at high speed, back to (3)
00:34:903 - I swear I can hear some sounds here...
00:39:852 (6) - Please, no offbeat sliders (applies to the next slider as well)
00:40:172 (1) - Fits the music much better if it's a 1/1 slider, due to it being offbeat (from red tick to red tick)
00:43:047 (4) - NC, for the DDEDEDEDE
00:44:770 (5) - 00:46:484 (3) - 00:48:192 (3) - ^^
00:48:192 (3) - Why on earth is this 1/4 while the other similar sounds are 1/2?
00:53:425 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - This looks... not ugly...
00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Wait... I thought only Fort would ever do something as this
01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Are you sure you are not Fort?
01:33:991 (1,2) - Seriously...
01:35:915 (4) - NC, refer to above
01:37:630 (5) - ^^
01:39:344 (5) - ^^
01:36:505 (2,6,2) - Is it just me, or are these the only triplets in the whole map? Don't you think 1/4 sldiers (with reverses please
) would work better?01:41:847 (2) - Please have an NC, to distinguish between "oriental" and "deathmetal"
01:43:163 (2) - 01:44:275 (2) - 01:45:997 (2) - 01:46:857 (2) - 01:47:522 (2) - 01:50:303 (2) - 01:51:166 (2) - 01:51:830 (2) - ^^
01:43:716 (2) - 01:44:794 (2) - 01:48:020 (2,3) - 01:49:098 (2,3) - 01:52:363 (2) - Give them NC, for more emphasis on the metal part
01:47:749 (3) - Add a circle (close to the next slider)
01:59:570 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - I LOVE how you made this, since it's a "normal" part, so you also mapped it properly ^_^
02:04:045 (1,2) - Since this part is actually pretty, why not blanket this?
02:04:611 (3,1) - ^^
02:13:881 (2,3) - It might be only me, but these sounds shouldt imo all get an NC (though it might fuck up reading, so... up to you)
02:15:026 (1) - OMG WIGGLE
02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - Okay what the actual fuck
02:30:599 (9) - You NC slider #9 in the previous 2 patterns, but not here... NC this please
02:32:313 (9) - ^^
02:31:028 (1,1) - Please remember what I said about sliderjumps, when the slider has a reverse. Due to the reverse, the leniency goes away, so this is technically a 1/3-1/4 jump (which is like half screen)
02:33:171 (1) - This literally calls for an ugly slider, yet you make a boring one...
02:39:407 (9) - If you listen really carefully, you'll hear that the music is just a triplet, not a quintuplet, please remove this note
02:42:960 (9) - ^^
02:53:686 (1) - Can people even follow the slider? Since it's soo long, people are forced to move along with the slider...
02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1) - Isn't this a bit overboard...
-----------------------------
03:05:329 (1) - You use a 1/1 slider + 1 circle at the red tick in the previous parts, yet the music is the same, but here you have a 3/2 slider. Why not make it consistent?
03:07:390 (1) - ^^
03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - It might be of the rotation, but something's a bit weird if you select them all. They are not properly aligned. (2) is a straight line with a few wiggles, and (4) is in a curve. Just something I found weird when I looked at it
04:06:081 (5) - You Always NC the first slider with "Stop", yet you didn't NC this (while you did NC 04:06:581 (1) -
04:25:863 (2) - Feels a bit forced, and not following the rhythm, please stick to regular 1/2 here, instead of a 1/4 stack
04:33:754 (1,1,1,1) - This is amazing
Honestly, the map isn't bad. It really fits with the song. The only issue I'd have are the 1/4 sliderspams (but hey, I can't play this, so who am I to say stuff?)
I'd advise you to get a lot of testplays from the top 100 (top 10 would be even better), since that'd be soooo much more valueable for high-tier difficulties than normal mods
Good luck!
For those suggesting AR10, please think about that again. More than 50% of the song is really calm. That doesn't fit.
Also, .3 difference shouldn't be that much of a problem.
Also, .3 difference shouldn't be that much of a problem.
For reference:
Hi. I have posted some fluff in this thread a while ago for shits & giggles, but I believe that since there's a discussion growing on with pertinent subjects and arguments, I believe I should join in with what is my opinion on the whole matter. Spoiler alert: I don't like the map and I don't want to see this ranked without a complete remap (or at least a full spread without this difficulty).
First point: The map would disrespect the length rule if it didn't abuse a loophole in the ranking criteria. This is explained as something which is currently ok in the ranking criteria by Stefan, but it still is something immoral that is deliberately abused by Monstrata in order to get a map ranked with much lower effort. Apparently, the initial excuse given was that the song isn't "worthy" of a full spread or just not good enough to have easier difficulties mapped. Well, I've been told several times that these cases are just songs that shouldn't have been mapped in the first place. If you don't feel like you're capable of at least making easier difficulties for your map, then you shouldn't even bother making harder difficulties. On the top of all the other issues this beatmap has, this one just screams "I'm too lazy to even put effort into this joke of a beatmap, but I'm dedicated enough to get it ranked". It's one of the many insults that this does to the mapping community in general, being: If you're popular, you can just rely on your friends to get your lazily mapped beatmap ranked. Also, for the players: mappers are lazy and don't care if you can't play harder difficulties.
Second point: There is no proof of thorough playtesting and player input in the map. If the beatmap is truly directed to its target audience based on star rating, then it's extremely weird to not see any input from top 100 players, and the ones I've asked about, were feeling offended that such a beatmap was ranked in the first place - they didn't feel it was enjoyable to play or a needed map in the ranked section. If you can't even please the small target audience you're directing your map to, then there's something definitely wrong with the map. All of the "tasteful" aesthetic choices you went for, are just deliberately making the map play worse due to its bad patterning, awkward flow and just poor decision-making in placement and the ways you wanted to make the map follow the song. MAYBE that wasn't intentional, but the smug passive-aggressive responses from the mapper such as "Well, you guys are proving the point I wanted to make with the map, it was supposed to make you feel like that!" just prove that this was a deliberate "gimmick" that isn't even supposed to make the map more enjoyable in any way. You should want, as a mapper, to make the map as fun and enjoyable as possible. If you're avoiding that, even using gimmicks, you're just not mapping in a good way, and you're not mapping for the ranking criteria. This just throws another insult at the mapping/playing community: mappers don't care if you can't play their map properly; their aesthetic/gimmick choice is more important than your fun.
Third point: This beatmap is mocking bad beatmapping... and still manages to get ranked. Why? There is nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard. This beatmap was designed as a joke, and it was really funny until the mapper started to take it seriously. I'm all for maps that use gimmicks in way to make it play differently and still care about playability, such as HW maps (which people have been wrongly comparing this to), but this beatmap is, as explained earlier, using gimmicks to make the map play/feel worse. I'm not even talking about the difficulty abuse/spikes or the aesthetic itself, it's just that the map plays poorly. If you want to blame it in the song, then it goes back to the first point: Why even map this song in the first place, other than for a joke? And if it's a joke, why do you want it ranked? It's not a good thing for mappers, it's not a good thing for players, and it's just awful for your reputation since now apparently the world is out to hate on you and your maps from now on.
I don't want to go on the specifics as what patterns are bad or not; there seems to be enough modding, and, to be honest, it's not gonna help with anything. Since people love to misuse this quote in HW maps, I'll be using it properly here for the first time:
As a fellow mapper who has been around for some time, please listen to my advice. Don't make this worse for mappers, who are always getting shat on by the players because of bad mapping decisions like this one. I recommend you to simply remap this entire thing as a serious map, and if you can't make this song work out, then maybe the song shouldn't have been mapped to begin with, and you can put it in the graveyard, where it belongs.
Hi. I have posted some fluff in this thread a while ago for shits & giggles, but I believe that since there's a discussion growing on with pertinent subjects and arguments, I believe I should join in with what is my opinion on the whole matter. Spoiler alert: I don't like the map and I don't want to see this ranked without a complete remap (or at least a full spread without this difficulty).
First point: The map would disrespect the length rule if it didn't abuse a loophole in the ranking criteria. This is explained as something which is currently ok in the ranking criteria by Stefan, but it still is something immoral that is deliberately abused by Monstrata in order to get a map ranked with much lower effort. Apparently, the initial excuse given was that the song isn't "worthy" of a full spread or just not good enough to have easier difficulties mapped. Well, I've been told several times that these cases are just songs that shouldn't have been mapped in the first place. If you don't feel like you're capable of at least making easier difficulties for your map, then you shouldn't even bother making harder difficulties. On the top of all the other issues this beatmap has, this one just screams "I'm too lazy to even put effort into this joke of a beatmap, but I'm dedicated enough to get it ranked". It's one of the many insults that this does to the mapping community in general, being: If you're popular, you can just rely on your friends to get your lazily mapped beatmap ranked. Also, for the players: mappers are lazy and don't care if you can't play harder difficulties.
Second point: There is no proof of thorough playtesting and player input in the map. If the beatmap is truly directed to its target audience based on star rating, then it's extremely weird to not see any input from top 100 players, and the ones I've asked about, were feeling offended that such a beatmap was ranked in the first place - they didn't feel it was enjoyable to play or a needed map in the ranked section. If you can't even please the small target audience you're directing your map to, then there's something definitely wrong with the map. All of the "tasteful" aesthetic choices you went for, are just deliberately making the map play worse due to its bad patterning, awkward flow and just poor decision-making in placement and the ways you wanted to make the map follow the song. MAYBE that wasn't intentional, but the smug passive-aggressive responses from the mapper such as "Well, you guys are proving the point I wanted to make with the map, it was supposed to make you feel like that!" just prove that this was a deliberate "gimmick" that isn't even supposed to make the map more enjoyable in any way. You should want, as a mapper, to make the map as fun and enjoyable as possible. If you're avoiding that, even using gimmicks, you're just not mapping in a good way, and you're not mapping for the ranking criteria. This just throws another insult at the mapping/playing community: mappers don't care if you can't play their map properly; their aesthetic/gimmick choice is more important than your fun.
Third point: This beatmap is mocking bad beatmapping... and still manages to get ranked. Why? There is nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard. This beatmap was designed as a joke, and it was really funny until the mapper started to take it seriously. I'm all for maps that use gimmicks in way to make it play differently and still care about playability, such as HW maps (which people have been wrongly comparing this to), but this beatmap is, as explained earlier, using gimmicks to make the map play/feel worse. I'm not even talking about the difficulty abuse/spikes or the aesthetic itself, it's just that the map plays poorly. If you want to blame it in the song, then it goes back to the first point: Why even map this song in the first place, other than for a joke? And if it's a joke, why do you want it ranked? It's not a good thing for mappers, it's not a good thing for players, and it's just awful for your reputation since now apparently the world is out to hate on you and your maps from now on.
I don't want to go on the specifics as what patterns are bad or not; there seems to be enough modding, and, to be honest, it's not gonna help with anything. Since people love to misuse this quote in HW maps, I'll be using it properly here for the first time:
The concept behind the beatmap is fundamentally flawed from the start. You simply cannot get a map that mocks other beatmaps using bad playing elements ranked, especially using friends in the BNG to help you get through the rules and all moral issues that arise from getting the beatmap ranked.Code of Conduct wrote:
Unless the concept behind a beatmap is fundamentally flawed from the start, modding should aim to improve the map in it’s current design - not force your own style upon it. If you truly believe the map has too many significant issues to address individually, try to give a general statement of why this is the case and what direction you think the map should go in to get back on track.
As a fellow mapper who has been around for some time, please listen to my advice. Don't make this worse for mappers, who are always getting shat on by the players because of bad mapping decisions like this one. I recommend you to simply remap this entire thing as a serious map, and if you can't make this song work out, then maybe the song shouldn't have been mapped to begin with, and you can put it in the graveyard, where it belongs.