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4k Players can't gain PP. So here is my solution for this.

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Feerum
osu! Alumni
2,042 posts
Joined August 2014
Feerum

juankristal wrote:

The bully to 4k is so real...

Just dont play for rank man, rank doesnt mean anything. We dont really need a solution for that because noone cares about the rank in 4k.
I agree with Juan :3
What the Hell does Rank in Mania mean. Nothing in my Eyes just because all these Keymodes.
And i heard ppl who play just 4 Fun have.. more Fun, but thats a secret!

Also Apples solution wouldn't be that bad but it would be still have QQ and Haters overall

I don't really see a good solution for everone :/
But why don't learn other Keymodes? 5-9k can also be fun! And once you know how to play also the problem with the pp
Is solved!

So i say: Give the other Keymodes a try. And i don't mean play 3 songs and give up. You haven't learn 4K in just one Day so the other Keymodes need some time.
Try it, learn it! :3

But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs :D

Waaah thats such a problem.. xd
Elementaires
658 posts
Joined January 2013
Elementaires

Feerum wrote:

But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs :D
Funny to read this because most 4K players dont want to learn 7K because or the spacebar ;^)
I dont think its overrated but 4K underrated, just take the example of the Imperishable night

The thread is pointless anyway
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Elementaires wrote:

Feerum wrote:

But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs :D
Funny to read this because most 4K players dont want to learn 7K because or the spacebar ;^)
I dont think its overrated but 4K underrated, just take the example of the Imperishable night

The thread is pointless anyway
There IS a difference between 4k and 7k in star rating, for example, a 10 star 7k map is still playable for top tier 7k players, but a 10 star 4k map is outright unplayable.

But yes, this thread is pointless because not only is a new star rating system in development, complaining on the forum has done absolutely nothing to fix the problems in mania.

The real issue is that while pretty much everyone is aware of the problems, nobody can agree on exactly how to fix them, and the staff are mostly unwilling to even listen to the community anyway.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

Bobbias wrote:

Last 1.5 years? I'll have you know it's been bad since day 1. It was completely and utterly broken before, and all they did was tweak it so it gave reasonable numbers now, if still wildly inaccurate at times.
Rough estimate of ppv2 lifespan, cba anyway
Cuppp
113 posts
Joined February 2013
Cuppp
4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.
Last edited by Tidek , edited 2 times in total.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
That's accurate :v
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Tidek wrote:

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.
Except you won't be coddled by the ranking system where the majority of actually hard maps never get ranked.
Feerum
osu! Alumni
2,042 posts
Joined August 2014
Feerum
I don't know how O2Jam or LR2 is because i never play it.

But i have play for a while Stepmania and isn't Stepmania just like Osu!Mania with OD0? :/

Don't know but thats how it feels for me
akuma123
308 posts
Joined June 2011
akuma123
Osu!Mania (4k) is like Stepmania with judge 5.5 or maybe 6, and getting an AA on stepmania is like getting 900k (maybe a bit less) on Osu!Mania

Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

akuma123 wrote:

Osu!Mania (4k) is like Stepmania with judge 5.5 or maybe 6, and getting an AA on stepmania is like getting 900k (maybe a bit less) on Osu!Mania

Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
If you play for accuracy, sure.

But the judgement between the equivalents for 200, 100, 50 and a miss are MUCH MUCH tighter; the only thing that is easier is the Marvelous count. Getting a SDP in SM is MUCH easier than O!M, but an SDG on SM is much less forgiving than one on O!M, at least from the statistics I've seen.

Playing maps to clear them / get an A on them / Hard clear is much less forgiving on SM than O!M, and that is, I am willing to bet on, a fact. Get some statistical nut to confirm that or something please.
BilliumMoto
osu!mixer II
190 posts
Joined January 2014
BilliumMoto
i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
feesh-
feesh-
If only I wanted to get more pp by 4k, I would definitely say "let your dreams be dreams" because of the system, 7k is another way to gain more pp, and not to mention that 5 stars map usually gives 300+ pp which is already good enough for me. Well, I do admit I fight for ranking, nut after reaching top 1500, I felt it's meaningless to continue playing, but I chose to play for fun.

An advice, want to get higher rank? Go practice some 7k and get a fresh new start from 7k and it's like how you start on 4 key. :)
-Hanatan
8 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
-Hanatan
I totally agree with bad apple but i think the dev's are too busy to do a ranking system like that. I want to play for rank/pp, so i think starting to play 7k would be the best solution for now :?
bakadam
7 posts
Joined June 2013
bakadam

- Bad Apple - wrote:

It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.

Should be too much of an issue to code something like this either and would greatly enhance the ranking-experience for 4k only players like me

using that way, you would have a 4k #1 and a 7k #1 (and a combined one, obviously)
example, #1 in 4k would have a total of 7500pp, that way you know, that 7.5k is the maximum amount of pp you can get from 4k, as a result it feels better for 4k players with 6-6.5k pp.
:)
very nice idea i thnk
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.
bakadam
7 posts
Joined June 2013
bakadam

-Kamikaze- wrote:

To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.

rank 1 mania player is not best at 4k in the world .... he's best at just 7k. learning 7k is enough to reach rank 1 at mania ;)
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening

bakadam wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.

rank 1 mania player is not best at 4k in the world .... he's best at just 7k. learning 7k is enough to reach rank 1 at mania ;)
To be considered the best mania player in the world
best mania player in the world
in the world
the world
world
worl
wo
_underjoy
704 posts
Joined January 2013
_underjoy
The Star Rating system should look more at density per column as well as the length of the densest part, instead of just plain nps. Then 4k maps would be rated higher and give more pp.
Nuff said.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

_underjoy wrote:

The Star Rating system should look more at density per column as well as the length of the densest part, instead of just plain nps. Then 4k maps would be rated higher and give more pp.
Nuff said.
ty sir
Sewing Machine(??)

BilliumMoto wrote:

i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
I can't clear half of Fullerene Shift on HP 4....
: (((((((((
How to mash like pro?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

BilliumMoto wrote:

i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
I love when people think there's a right way to judge achievements.

If you cleared a song you couldn't in the past, that's an achievement, period. Just like beating a personal best is an achievement, or any other goal you might set for yourself.

The star rating system and PP system are never going to be perfect, ever. Even if 95% of the community agrees that it's good enough, someone out there will disagree.

If you play for PP, get used to having to farm songs that are worth more PP. when we finally have a large selection of extremely difficult maps, get used to farming whichever ones are easier to get PP on, because even if the system improves, there will always be maps that are easier for certain players to get good PP from compared to others of the same difficulty level.
[Crz]Player
228 posts
Joined September 2011
[Crz]Player
here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
puxtu
2,926 posts
Joined August 2013
puxtu

[-] wrote:

here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
goddamn nigga

btw if you want pp, help me rank this shit https://osu.ppy.sh/s/342245
[Crz]Player
228 posts
Joined September 2011
[Crz]Player
ppuxtu
Feerum
osu! Alumni
2,042 posts
Joined August 2014
Feerum

puxtu wrote:

[-] wrote:

here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
goddamn nigga

btw if you want pp, help me rank this shit https://osu.ppy.sh/s/342245
60
puxtu
2,926 posts
Joined August 2013
puxtu

Feerum wrote:

60
Lol modding queue is just for scrubs
-Hanatan
8 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
-Hanatan

[-] wrote:

here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
Best solution ever, i will try it later ty.
Feerum
osu! Alumni
2,042 posts
Joined August 2014
Feerum

puxtu wrote:

Feerum wrote:

60
Lol modding queue is just for scrubs
I don't think so
Chyo-Kun
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Chyo-Kun
I can't help but feel like this is only natural.

Four keys are naturally easier to keep track of rather than seven.. It requires more skill to begin with. Then you can argue that some 4k insanes are much faster and require more stamina than most 7k insanes that focus on more intricate patterns, but then it comes down to the song and how mappable it is. You can't just overmap a song in 4k and justify your mapping with "Welp, 4k needs harder mapz", that just doesn't work in most song cases.
I can map a beatmania song in both 4k and 7k and the 7k will be harder just for the fact that there are more keys to work with and more possibilites to create crazy patterns with a song that was MADE to be played on a rhythm game. If I try to make a 4k version that's even close to beeing as difficult, I would have many many problems doing so just because there are less keys to work with, leaving me only speed to rely on to higher the difficulty.

tl;dr: It's easier to map really hard 7k map without overmapping and hard to do so in 4k without a really good song, thus 7k giving more PP in general


P.S.: Good song = one that can be mapped in many different ways and has a lot of background melodies, to notice the difference compare a "standard" hip hop /rap hit song to a SDVX song and you'll get what I mean..
Soul Stealer
59 posts
Joined September 2015
Soul Stealer

akuma123 wrote:

Stop playing for PP, that works too :)
lol I've COMPLETELY given up on PP and leveling up. I just play for the fun and the competitive spirit (and the streams)
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
why pepole are still posting here
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Chyo-Kun, you can always create dump charts for hard 4k. It's a shame they're so looked down upon compared to technical charts.
Tifyron
53 posts
Joined June 2014
Tifyron
Isn't the entire key # discussion pointless with SR as fucked up as it is?

As long as you can just add bogus notes you can make whatever star diff you like, look through https://osu.ppy.sh/b/770127&m=3 if you need an example.

Best to just ignore ranked completely, 'till SR gets overhauled (sometime next century.. maybe).
Max Schradin
3 posts
Joined September 2013
Max Schradin
Just deal with the fact that o!m is not a 4K only game
JamesHappy
678 posts
Joined January 2014
JamesHappy

extase wrote:

Just deal with the fact that o!m is not a 4K only game
This
bakadam
7 posts
Joined June 2013
bakadam

-Kamikaze- wrote:

why pepole are still posting here
mr r3trd pls. stfu and gtf get the fooh
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

bakadam wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

why pepole are still posting here
mr r3trd pls. stfu and gtf get the fooh
dude I haven't laughed that hard since last week, thanks
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

bakadam wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

why pepole are still posting here
mr r3trd pls. stfu and gtf get the fooh
Teach me your language please qAq
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
>me irl
spoonguy
261 posts
Joined June 2011
spoonguy
i love this thread
_underjoy
704 posts
Joined January 2013
_underjoy
get dunked lmao
nebbii
35 posts
Joined December 2013
nebbii
4k and 7k are both for bad players play 14k you fucking scrubs

buy a piano
PouletFurtif
260 posts
Joined December 2011
PouletFurtif

Tidek wrote:

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.
LR2's 7k = osu's 8k
There's no 8k in osu
LR2 > osu confirmed

I want official Dan Courses.
_Kemo
22 posts
Joined May 2013
_Kemo
Ranking hard 4k maps won't help much because most 7k players can do an OK job in 4k, whereas 4k players are usually able to play very few, if not none, of the 7k hard maps. Then you add the PP up and 4k players are still disadvantaged.

Not to mention that speaking of quantity, there are far more ranked 4k maps than 7k maps. I remember that there's a time point that out of the 20 or something qualified maps only 3 of them are 7k.

Seriously, learn different key modes and enjoy the game. I sometimes wonder that what does "7k player" even mean. To me there are only players who "only play 4k" and who "play 4k as well as other key modes."

lol
Valedict
242 posts
Joined April 2013
Valedict
jesus christ who cares let this piece of shit thread die
Frustration
57 posts
Joined September 2013
Frustration
what are you talking about this is the best thread of my life
Hestia-
271 posts
Joined June 2010
Hestia-

[Crz]Kemo wrote:

Not to mention that speaking of quantity, there are far more ranked 4k maps than 7k maps. I remember that there's a time point that out of the 20 or something qualified maps only 3 of them are 7k.
This isn't true-- There are more ranked 7K maps than 4K. It may be true that recently most of the maps that are getting ranked are 4K though.

And it's rare to have a 7K player who can play 4K at the same level as people who actually specialize in it...
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

-Hanatan wrote:

I think QAT's should rank more 4k maps with higher stars
Meanwhile, 5 months ago:
t/342178

Are we going to go back and forth on which keymode is lacking maps every half year or so?
OpenSource
4 posts
Joined October 2012
OpenSource
except the fact that 4k pp is ridiculously overvalued at this current state
only reason why 4k players dont really shine is due to the fact that most 7k players can play decently at 4k and farm dat pp while most 4k players cant play 7k at all
juankristal
osu! Alumni
1,408 posts
Joined August 2010
juankristal
With some disscusion allready made here I think this is enought. There is a thread in this section of the forum to post feedback and suggestions for the pp system in osu!mania.
If you want to discuss, be sure to do it in the Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania) thread next time.

I am locking this.
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