ztrot wrote:

why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?

Because people sometimes feel useful, but they don't want to have to charge with some responsabilities on their back.

Ex: I can be the best modder out there and be nominated to be a Nominator or even a QAT, but I would decline that because I want to mod freely, without chains or holds.

Also, note that literally every other team allows you to leave if you dont wish to contribute.

The reason I was told that leaving wasnt allowed is that "BN is a simulation of modding v2, and you cant leave in modding v2 either", although i honestly havent heard ANYTHING about moddingv2 other than as a reason to NOT fix problems.

Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.

Mercurial wrote:

Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.

And the MAT with their purple name was unique for the time, maybe bring that back sometime in the future?

Mercurial wrote:

Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.

If you're a BN - or want to become one - for a different name colour and title at the forums then you're probably wrong in the team imo.


I guess it's somewhere discussable to say "I don't want to be a BN anymore, I want to leave it". You just to be inactive at all if you don't wish to be part of it, that's how it always worked since the newBAT addition.

Leaving the group due to inactivity is one thing, but to force the members to be inactive so they can leave the group another. Not everyone might want to stop modding maps just 'cause they don't longer want to be a BN for whatever reasons. It should be a normal thing when you have to make an application to join the group that you can leave the group by making an application as well. Just 'cause that's how it was since the beginning doesn't mean it has to stay at it is forever.

Be more flexible.

I dont quite get why there has to be a "you wont leave, eff you" mentality in the first place. What do you get out of that? The modder has to stop modding/doing what they like just to leave the group, like that'll help...

There have been some points made in previous posts, I dont think that it'd change anything if I were re-post them.

And more people are out
How many (in numbers) are removed and how many are still in it?
I'm quite curious to see how much people (percentually) got removed

Around 13 more got removed which leaves BN to the number of 76 if I'm not mistaken out of 10X. Around 25-30% of the BNG removed

Huge, really huge purge I must admit lol

Raiden wrote:

Around 13 more got removed which leaves BN to the number of 76 if I'm not mistaken out of 10X. Around 25-30% of the BNG removed

Huge, really huge purge I must admit lol

30% to be exact out of the 106

Stefan wrote:

I guess it's somewhere discussable to say "I don't want to be a BN anymore, I want to leave it". You just to be inactive at all if you don't wish to be part of it, that's how it always worked since the newBAT addition.

Not actually true. Some BATs in the past actually requested for some downtime or when they feel they have to leave. If we played that "waiting game" back then, you would see maybe 100 or so Alumni. There's also some members who completely quit which has to be considered.

That's quite a lot O,o
Still quite some left, I though we had +- 70, good to see that's what's left

Another thing I've noticed that I forgot to say. When there was a lot of BNs active, it also put a lot of stress with the bubble / qualify limit that created this "rank race" problem. Even with the purge, will this limit be the same or re-balanced to the new activity count?

whymeman wrote:

Another thing I've noticed that I forgot to say. When there was a lot of BNs active, it also put a lot of stress with the bubble / qualify limit that created this "rank race" problem. Even with the purge, will this limit be the same or re-balanced to the new activity count?

We've already requested this multiple times and nobody (staff) wanted to change this. There were multiple reasons given (such as QAT limitations) while we had tons of BNs, I dont see them changing anything with less BNs now.

I think it'll be the same, as the inactive ones are removed, bit the actives' activity is still the same
I for example found out I was insanely active is August
And in July too actually

Hmmm...... as long as the team don't get worked up over the limit issue and worry more about the maps themselves, then mappers can relax easier with less DQ fears. As I would see it, that "room" given from the limit is wasted on every DQ that is made from carelessness caused by modding too fast on demand while under pressure trying to provide results. Because of the excess of mistakes in the past, the limit got tighter but also increased that stress of trying to get more maps up and ready before being bared down by the limit. If maps can be qualified and clear through the trial period without faults and onward for lets say.... 3 months, then maybe the limit can be set a bit higher. But, the opposite can be true if the work is sloppy for those 3 months, the limit can be tighter and more strict.

So that we'll eventually reach 1 qualify/day? There will always be disqualifications, no matter what you do - There will always be something that the BNs think is okay, but the QATs dont.

You can to consider the membership as some attribute you unlock and eventually lose or keep.
On a system that is based on automation and score, you can neither retire or quit. It's like you want to quit being Top20 in Catch the Beat. There is no "Contact the staff and we delete you out of that".
The logic behind "you can not resign" was, that you join upon your score and leave upon your score. No more, no less. And in any future and automated system, you will neither be able to simply quit, unless you just stop doing things.

You unlocked an ability. You either keep it by keeping score or lose it by losing score. This is not a club you can join and leave as you wish, because that's not how future automated systems will work anyways.

And better get used to it now, before it changes and you start finding it troublesome again :U

Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.

I find it extraordinarily upsetting that apparently, peppy and Loctav do not communicate with each other that much (vague assumption, I know, but how would you think of seeing these comments?) . It's not the first time I've seen comments like this, and well, I don't know what I should think about that, even less what the whole community thinks about it. It's all these things which make the community unsure what is going to happen next, speaking of upcoming changes. Also the BN thing. It was a matter for such a long time, and not even now we know what is going to happen.

I personally stopped following that whole stuff, because as announced 300 times, it's going to change anyway again. It's sad to see how these things are handled and how much confusion the community gets through that.

Irreversible wrote:

I find it extraordinarily upsetting that apparently, peppy and Loctav do not communicate with each other that much (vague assumption, I know, but how would you think of seeing these comments?) . It's not the first time I've seen comments like this, and well, I don't know what I should think about that, even less what the whole community thinks about it. It's all these things which make the community unsure what is going to happen next, speaking of upcoming changes. Also the BN thing. It was a matter for such a long time, and not even now we know what is going to happen.

I personally stopped following that whole stuff, because as announced 300 times, it's going to change anyway again. It's sad to see how these things are handled and how much confusion the community gets through that.

I couldn't have said it better...

I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again

Yauxo wrote:

So that we'll eventually reach 1 qualify/day? There will always be disqualifications, no matter what you do - There will always be something that the BNs think is okay, but the QATs dont.

I'm not saying it will be eventually 1 a day, but what i'm pointing out is that if the system suffers, the people in it suffers as well. DQs are not avoidable 100% but it can be reduced depending on the methods needed to do so. If the DQ : Qualified ratio isn't extreme like it is now, then maybe the limits could be better and less restricting vs. a high DQ raito that requires much less bubbles and qualifying going on.

I would be more interested in how many users would be BNs when the system were fully automated. Right now, we have 78 76 BNs.

I still don't get why they have to be BNs based on some numbers, why they can't join or retire as they like. Problem of this is that modder who don't want to be BNs are forced to be one and are attracting automatically more intention due to the banner and the yellow bar. The only choice you give them is to stop modding. I also got asked to mod someone's map few times, as a non-modder/mapper, no idea how often a BN gets asked. Yeah, many BNs in the past cried when they lost their beloved redname, their reward, their status, but those wanted to be BNs, they wanted to be something special, being noticed as someone who can bubble/rank a map.

I personally would prefer an invitation rather than a "Good job, you are now a BN. You don't want to be one? Stop modding or you will never be removed, forever." Maybe I am just exaggerating.

DQs should not be avoided.

they are GOOD.

fuck

stop hypothesising and watch and wait. rome wasn't wanged in a day.

whymeman wrote:

DQs are not avoidable 100% but it can be reduced depending on the methods needed to do so.

Better spending time to make things safe and well, than rushing and get surprised later.
There are 3 pages of bubbled maps, good luck.

Yauxo wrote:

crap

xxdeathx wrote:

Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.

Imagine you're shopping and see that sweet looking apple, almost as if it's special. You like apples, so you buy one and go home. You put the special apple down to your other apples and dont eat it for a few days, it spoils and stinks around the other ones. You want to throw it away, but you cant. You've already paid money for that - You have to eat it, no matter what.

Oh, but you really really dont want to eat that spoiled apple? Well, too bad, I dont care. You'll eat it.

If you play around a bit, you can translate that into getting into the BNG, changing the BN ranking and qualifiying system and trying to get out.

I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.

peppy wrote:

DQs should not be avoided.

they are GOOD.

fuck

Yes, DQs are good to fix an existing pre-approval problem before it is left as a permanent mark that is hard to remove. It is also good when the problems are caught early. But the problem was the excess amounts back to back that made it seem like a curse to many mappers. Especially for the "legit reasons" that seemed far-fetched with little explanation and commutation between the mapper ones that actually did the DQ. On top of that, when the DQs were happening, some maps seemed as if they were left to die, or those that contribute to the map end up dropping out feeling it was their fault for the DQ as if they are powerless and have no where to turn on how to handle the matter.

As much as DQ is a "good" thing in terms of preventing serious errors from existing in a finished product, preventing them from happening with more time and effort into the maps before qualifying helps much more. Like, treating a map that wasn't DQed yet as if it was DQed in the aim to find serious problems before they actually cause the DQ to happen in the first place.

peppy wrote:

stop hypothesising and watch and wait. rome wasn't wanged in a day.

Its not that easy to tell people to stop guessing and wait when a lot of questions still exist though. Addressing a few questions could bring the tension down a bit and maybe give answers to more questions and things that have to be fixed. Being too aggressive about asking questions won't bring much good at this time...

I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again

they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.

ztrot wrote:

I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

Intentionally broken link....? Or do we add in the Xk/pubhtml part?

whymeman wrote:

ztrot wrote:

I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

Intentionally broken link....? Or do we add in the Xk/pubhtml part?

ztrot means this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

I guess he copied the short link in the postinstead of copying the full link.

peppy wrote:

DQs should not be avoided.

they are GOOD.

fuck

Eh. Wouldn't avoiding DQs be good? Not in a "I'll stretch the rules as far as possible before I DQ" way, but as in striving for the best quality before actually being qualified, and thus not actually needing a DQ?


Also, maybe this is a stupid idea and there's some dumb flaw in it, but would it be possible to create a queue system for maps to be qualified?
So, after a BN clicks the qualify button, the map is put into a queue:

1. When a map is put into the queue, it's put in some position in relation to the maps age/star priority (so older maps have higher priority).
2. For every day a map is in the queue, their priority increases, and they move up the list.
3. BNs can check maps in the queue, and if they think a map is particularily good (or if a mapper wants another BN to check their map), they can approve of the map, which will increase the map's priority.
4. The priority extra BNs checking your map gives should decrease, while the priority time gives should increase, so that a map never gets stuck in the queue, never getting out because other maps gets higher priority from BN checks.
5. A DQ'd map, or a map deemed not ready from BNs, other modders or whatever, while in the queue, will have a higher priority when they go back into the queue (so if your map gets taken out of the queue at the 10th spot, you don't start all over in the queue, but gets added back in at let's say 15th or 18th or something), so this action doesn't feel as damaging as going back to the start with the current qualified system (you have to wait another 7 days if your map gets DQd on the 6th day etc)

This way the maps that get qualified each day aren't the ones that have the fastest button-clicking BNs, but the ones that have been ready in a long time or had more quality control. It's no longer a race against time, and if your map gets into the queue you're guaranteed that your map will eventually get qualified, as long as nothing happens during the queue.

It's kind of like the current qualified system, but it allows for more than 6 maps a day to be added to the queue, as long as we assume maps gets checked and removed from the queue by BNs and other modders. There'll still be a limit of how many maps that can be in a queue, but if there are more maps in the queue, more maps can be taken out as well. It should also be more fair this way, as it's based more on map quality and time spent. And there's still a minimum of 2 BN checks.

sheela901 wrote:

ztrot means this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

I guess he copied the short link in the postinstead of copying the full link.

Ah, thanks. I do like how thoroughly detailed it is compared to the MAT/BAT ranking chart that was previously used a while back.

I'm personally quite surprised I'm THAT active
103 mods/icons in 3 months O.o

Baraatje123 wrote:

I'm personally quite surprised I'm THAT active
103 mods/icons in 3 months O.o

Damn Bara. If only the majority was as active as you are. I guess it requires a lot of dedication which not many people can afford to have due to rl.

ztrot wrote:

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again

they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.

So soon as they will still be opened this month? If so, I feel like there would not really be fair to the new BN's since the month is half over and they have such little time to icon things since the applications are open for a week or so and then it takes roughly a week to go through the apps (so if it does take two weeks, that will be them joining on the 25th of this month, only giving them until the 30th to place icons and that seems like way to little time honestly). I just do not want them to be opened later on in the day, people apply, become a BN and they rush and place icons/rank maps in the few days they have until the month ends and just have the maps DQ out of the rush (which leads back to mappers feeling like crap because their maps got DQ'ed and also the BN's involved in the ranking process).

I honestly do not know if you guys are still purging the BNG a bit more or not right now or if you guys plan on removing inactive members monthly so it doesn't come to this anymore (which the new system seemed like it would do). I know I am nowhere near the most active modder on the game. Can I join this group? Yea. Have I tried? Yea. Will try to apply to become a BN when it opens up again and keep on applying if I get turned down? Yea. Will I make it this time? I have no idea because there are a lot of other people who are also excellent modders who will also apply and I might not pick my best mods to get judged.

But - in the end of the day - this is just one person's view on it. I just do not want the few people who would make it if they open up for this month to feel pressured to do what everyone else had 6 times as many days do to and do very hasty icons/qualifies. I know that some bubbles/qualifies can take days on end talking back and forth with the mapper to make sure that everything the BN feels is correct on the mapset.

DragonSlayer96 wrote:

am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.

So soon as they will still be opened this month? If so, I feel like there would not really be fair to the new BN's since the month is half over and they have such little time to icon things since the applications are open for a week or so and then it takes roughly a week to go through the apps (so if it does take two weeks, that will be them joining on the 25th of this month, only giving them until the 30th to place icons and that seems like way to little time honestly). I just do not want them to be opened later on in the day, people apply, become a BN and they rush and place icons/rank maps in the few days they have until the month ends and just have the maps DQ out of the rush (which leads back to mappers feeling like crap because their maps got DQ'ed and also the BN's involved in the ranking process).

If they begin applications now they'd be ahead of schedule actually. They didn't finish July BN applications until the 21st of July. Might as well just call them early August BN's xD.

Anyways, I see a lot of inactive BN's have been removed which is definitely a step in the right direction. But what about the problem about too many bubbles in pending and the ever-present qualification cap? Are you guys planning on addressing this problem of "too many active BN's"? Because right now, adding more BN's will just result in even more activity, and there are already so many maps being bubbled every day that additional BN's doesn't seem necessary or even beneficial for the system. At the same time though, we shouldn't turn a blind eye from all those modders who want to become BN's (for whatever reason) on the basis of "we don't need you".

Are there plans to increasing the QAT so that the qualification slot can return to 9 slots per day as it was a few months ago? Also, when can we be expecting the upcoming ranking/scoring system changes to be implemented? Something besides soon(tm) would be nice xD. I appreciate the solid dates we were given for the purge. I hope we can see that for other BN/ranking related dates like monthly BN Applications/system changes. Back when there was a BN ranking, the scores were updated on the 1st of every month which was quite professional.