More like this system was implemented poorly and seems rushed tbh.Baraatje123 wrote:
As long as the BN ranking doesn't exist, this can't really go automatically
hey, what's done is done. After the new major release of web and game, better fix and rebuild everything, even the progress is quite slow, but sure. (Suggestion :3/)Mercurial wrote:
More like this system was implemented poorly and seems rushed tbh.Baraatje123 wrote:
As long as the BN ranking doesn't exist, this can't really go automatically
I haven't been here for a long time while all the changes happened, but I can tell that not much changed since 2012 and onwards. People get a status of priviledge, then right after that some of them get cocky and don't dojackshitstating that they are "busy" for whatever reason, only modding maps at their own accord. The same happened with MATs and BATs.
I really hope whoever works in this project that makes it better for anyone...
Things that have been done wrong need to be fixed before moving forward. Keeping things moving forward and let wrong things left behind will cause more problemssorry for my bad english if you notice ;w;
As long as it doesn't turn into another "speed over quality" incident again, then that's fine. But one thing which has to be considered still is that usually around 3 months, a good amount of BNs and QATs don't have the free time to keep up with the workload and would either be on hiatus or forced to quit due to personal life stuff. Usually when that happens, there would be "we need more BNs and QATs!" complaints as people would look at 4 or so pages of bubbles. When those times happen, consideration needs to be there on how to handle it.PyaKura wrote:
I heard from certain sources that BNs are now meticulously selected by the higher ups by judging the quality of their mods and stuff. Also heard they've rejected quite a few applications due to them not meeting the required standards (and accepted none so far, over the span of a few months). I assume the same was done even earlier with QATs, so this in theory shouldn't be an issue anymore as they wouldn't accept mediocre modders who put quantity over quality in the BN/QAT ranks.
Yes I realize that is vague as f*ck but I have reasons to believe this is not far from what's really happening.
How is it Thursday in our time zone CDFAReditum wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4495311
Happy Thursday!
Sure, when are you gonna unveil the new system in its entirety? Ever since the BNG ranking was abolished it's been all talk and no solid numbers or names of anything until these kicks today. But we all want to see the numbers.ztrot wrote:
Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
Glad you asked as you can see the post in the beatmap management forum that post will be updated and all the hard numbers will be there! Now mind you we are using this as a base for activity the automated system is not in place we have tired other formats but remember what we have been saying from the start all of these systems have been more or less tests, as we get ever closer to FINALIZED format we will keep you updated.xxdeathx wrote:
How is it Thursday in our time zone CDFAReditum wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4495311
Happy Thursday!Sure, when are you gonna unveil the new system in its entirety? Ever since the BNG ranking was abolished it's been all talk and no solid numbers or names of anything until these kicks today. But we all want to see the numbers.ztrot wrote:
Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
We are not done yetRaiden wrote:
My, my. I expected a good clean but not THIS BIG O_o
Happy Thursday and good job people!
Don't eat me please D:Stefan wrote:
Finally.
why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?Yauxo wrote:
Finally². Only took me 3 month to get out of that group, thats like no time at all \:D/ /s.
Seriously though, I kinda want to see if this system ever gets to the point where it's actually balanced. Would be a shame if it wouldnt ever reach that. Also, why exactly isnt there a way to opt out of the group yet? I dont quite get why people are forced to stay in there whenever they first enter.
Because people sometimes feel useful, but they don't want to have to charge with some responsabilities on their back.ztrot wrote:
why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?
And the MAT with their purple name was unique for the time, maybe bring that back sometime in the future?Mercurial wrote:
Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
If you're a BN - or want to become one - for a different name colour and title at the forums then you're probably wrong in the team imo.Mercurial wrote:
Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
30% to be exact out of the 106Raiden wrote:
Around 13 more got removed which leaves BN to the number of 76 if I'm not mistaken out of 10X. Around 25-30% of the BNG removed
Huge, really huge purge I must admit lol
Not actually true. Some BATs in the past actually requested for some downtime or when they feel they have to leave. If we played that "waiting game" back then, you would see maybe 100 or so Alumni. There's also some members who completely quit which has to be considered.Stefan wrote:
I guess it's somewhere discussable to say "I don't want to be a BN anymore, I want to leave it". You just to be inactive at all if you don't wish to be part of it, that's how it always worked since the newBAT addition.
We've already requested this multiple times and nobody (staff) wanted to change this. There were multiple reasons given (such as QAT limitations) while we had tons of BNs, I dont see them changing anything with less BNs now.whymeman wrote:
Another thing I've noticed that I forgot to say. When there was a lot of BNs active, it also put a lot of stress with the bubble / qualify limit that created this "rank race" problem. Even with the purge, will this limit be the same or re-balanced to the new activity count?
Imagine you're shopping and see that sweet looking apple, almost as if it's special. You like apples, so you buy one and go home. You put the special apple down to your other apples and dont eat it for a few days, it spoils and stinks around the other ones. You want to throw it away, but you cant. You've already paid money for that - You have to eat it, no matter what.xxdeathx wrote:
Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.
I couldn't have said it better...Irreversible wrote:
I find it extraordinarily upsetting that apparently, peppy and Loctav do not communicate with each other that much (vague assumption, I know, but how would you think of seeing these comments?) . It's not the first time I've seen comments like this, and well, I don't know what I should think about that, even less what the whole community thinks about it. It's all these things which make the community unsure what is going to happen next, speaking of upcoming changes. Also the BN thing. It was a matter for such a long time, and not even now we know what is going to happen.
I personally stopped following that whole stuff, because as announced 300 times, it's going to change anyway again. It's sad to see how these things are handled and how much confusion the community gets through that.
I'm not saying it will be eventually 1 a day, but what i'm pointing out is that if the system suffers, the people in it suffers as well. DQs are not avoidable 100% but it can be reduced depending on the methods needed to do so. If the DQ : Qualified ratio isn't extreme like it is now, then maybe the limits could be better and less restricting vs. a high DQ raito that requires much less bubbles and qualifying going on.Yauxo wrote:
So that we'll eventually reach 1 qualify/day? There will always be disqualifications, no matter what you do - There will always be something that the BNs think is okay, but the QATs dont.
Better spending time to make things safe and well, than rushing and get surprised later.whymeman wrote:
DQs are not avoidable 100% but it can be reduced depending on the methods needed to do so.
I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.Yauxo wrote:
crapImagine you're shopping and see that sweet looking apple, almost as if it's special. You like apples, so you buy one and go home. You put the special apple down to your other apples and dont eat it for a few days, it spoils and stinks around the other ones. You want to throw it away, but you cant. You've already paid money for that - You have to eat it, no matter what.xxdeathx wrote:
Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.
Oh, but you really really dont want to eat that spoiled apple? Well, too bad, I dont care. You'll eat it.
If you play around a bit, you can translate that into getting into the BNG, changing the BN ranking and qualifiying system and trying to get out.
Yes, DQs are good to fix an existing pre-approval problem before it is left as a permanent mark that is hard to remove. It is also good when the problems are caught early. But the problem was the excess amounts back to back that made it seem like a curse to many mappers. Especially for the "legit reasons" that seemed far-fetched with little explanation and commutation between the mapper ones that actually did the DQ. On top of that, when the DQs were happening, some maps seemed as if they were left to die, or those that contribute to the map end up dropping out feeling it was their fault for the DQ as if they are powerless and have no where to turn on how to handle the matter.peppy wrote:
DQs should not be avoided.
they are GOOD.
fuck
Its not that easy to tell people to stop guessing and wait when a lot of questions still exist though. Addressing a few questions could bring the tension down a bit and maybe give answers to more questions and things that have to be fixed. Being too aggressive about asking questions won't bring much good at this time...peppy wrote:
stop hypothesising and watch and wait. rome wasn't wanged in a day.
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.[ S a k u r a ] wrote:
I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
ztrot wrote:
I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml
ztrot means this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtmlwhymeman wrote:
ztrot wrote:
I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml
Intentionally broken link....? Or do we add in the Xk/pubhtml part?
Eh. Wouldn't avoiding DQs be good? Not in a "I'll stretch the rules as far as possible before I DQ" way, but as in striving for the best quality before actually being qualified, and thus not actually needing a DQ?peppy wrote:
DQs should not be avoided.
they are GOOD.
fuck
Ah, thanks. I do like how thoroughly detailed it is compared to the MAT/BAT ranking chart that was previously used a while back.sheela901 wrote:
ztrot means this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml
I guess he copied the short link in the postinstead of copying the full link.
Damn Bara. If only the majority was as active as you are. I guess it requires a lot of dedication which not many people can afford to have due to rl.Baraatje123 wrote:
I'm personally quite surprised I'm THAT active
103 mods/icons in 3 months O.o
So soon as they will still be opened this month? If so, I feel like there would not really be fair to the new BN's since the month is half over and they have such little time to icon things since the applications are open for a week or so and then it takes roughly a week to go through the apps (so if it does take two weeks, that will be them joining on the 25th of this month, only giving them until the 30th to place icons and that seems like way to little time honestly). I just do not want them to be opened later on in the day, people apply, become a BN and they rush and place icons/rank maps in the few days they have until the month ends and just have the maps DQ out of the rush (which leads back to mappers feeling like crap because their maps got DQ'ed and also the BN's involved in the ranking process).ztrot wrote:
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.[ S a k u r a ] wrote:
I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
If they begin applications now they'd be ahead of schedule actually. They didn't finish July BN applications until the 21st of July. Might as well just call them early August BN's xD.DragonSlayer96 wrote:
am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.
So soon as they will still be opened this month? If so, I feel like there would not really be fair to the new BN's since the month is half over and they have such little time to icon things since the applications are open for a week or so and then it takes roughly a week to go through the apps (so if it does take two weeks, that will be them joining on the 25th of this month, only giving them until the 30th to place icons and that seems like way to little time honestly). I just do not want them to be opened later on in the day, people apply, become a BN and they rush and place icons/rank maps in the few days they have until the month ends and just have the maps DQ out of the rush (which leads back to mappers feeling like crap because their maps got DQ'ed and also the BN's involved in the ranking process).
This might not be a problem in Standard or o!m, but CtB and Taiko are looking pretty light on nomination capability right now - Taiko 4 BNs + 4 QATs, CtB 5 BNs and 3 QATs - and this doesn't take into account the fact that some people (myself included) mod another mode or modes as well. More QATs might "lighten the load" and allow the qualification limit to be raised again, but I get the feeling this probably isn't going to happen.monstrata wrote:
Anyways, I see a lot of inactive BN's have been removed which is definitely a step in the right direction. But what about the problem about too many bubbles in pending and the ever-present qualification cap? Are you guys planning on addressing this problem of "too many active BN's"? Because right now, adding more BN's will just result in even more activity, and there are already so many maps being bubbled every day that additional BN's doesn't seem necessary or even beneficial for the system. At the same time though, we shouldn't turn a blind eye from all those modders who want to become BN's (for whatever reason) on the basis of "we don't need you".
Are there plans to increasing the QAT so that the qualification slot can return to 9 slots per day as it was a few months ago? Also, when can we be expecting the upcoming ranking/scoring system changes to be implemented? Something besides soon(tm) would be nice xD. I appreciate the solid dates we were given for the purge. I hope we can see that for other BN/ranking related dates like monthly BN Applications/system changes. Back when there was a BN ranking, the scores were updated on the 1st of every month which was quite professional.
xxdeathx wrote:
I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.
So you cannot mod other beatmaps because you're a BN? huh?Yauxo wrote:
You like modding/helping other people, but you cant do that anymore (since you have to wait to get kicked)
You can always tell people you're not nominating maps anymore and keep modding as usual, no one will be yelling at you for that.Baraatje123 wrote:
He is right
If you want to quit being BN, but still want to mod some maps, There is no possibility, as the mod score goes up, making it seem as if you are active
As a mapper it is actually quite annonying when you ask several BNs to check your map and every single one of them tell you that they are not willing to do BN work anymore. So yeah, it's true that it's not their fault, being unable to leave on their own and we cannot blame them for it, but it is very unpractical to find 'real' active BNs.DakeDekaane wrote:
You can always tell people you're not nominating maps anymore and keep modding as usual, no one will be yelling at you for that.
The thing with "stop giving bubbles that easy" is that every BN has a different subjective opinion. If you dont like it, dont bubble it - Im pretty sure that someone else will though, maybe even just for the pointsDakeDekaane wrote:
The "too many bubbles" can be easily fixed by focusing more on checking the already bubbled maps. In the old times there were problems like this, and were fixed easily like this. Qualify cap is an issue? Stop giving bubbles that easily while this number reduces, pop the bubble if necessary (like if the map is still poor to get ranked).
Why do you want to leave the BNG? does staying in it affect you somehow?Yauxo wrote:
xxdeathx wrote:
I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.explained crapYou buy the apple/You join the BNG (you commit to something)
The apple is good, you can eat it | The overall ranking system/BN ranking is good, things work together (you like the thing you're committing to)
You put it down to the other apples (alot of apples) | You get into the BN group, more and more people join
The apple spoils, it stinks | The ranking system changes into something different, gets bad
You dont like spoiled apples | You dont like the "new" ranking system/BN ranking (What you've liked has become bad)
You want to throw the apple away | You want to leave the BNG - but you cant.
You have to eat the apple, even if you dont want to | You have to stay in the BNG, even if you dont want to
The apple stinks, but you have to "endure" the smell | You like modding/helping other people, but you cant do that anymore (since you have to wait to get kicked)
I dont want to be in a system that has changed after my initial entry. I took an apple to give a simplified example of what I think about the system. It was good at first, but with all the changes and a way-too-big BNG things have gotten bad and I dont want to work with that anymore.
You're right, it doesn't matter either way, but loctav and ztrot already decided on the existing system for whatever reasons to simulate automation.monstrata wrote:
Why don't you want them to leave the BNG? does keeping them in affect you somehow?
You could flip that question around too. I don't see any tangible distress in having a BNG membership, but I also don't see any tangible distress in simply removing them.
