Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Development

BN Cleaning: Ending the Standstill.

posted
Total Posts
160
show more
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
About critics that the system was implemented in a rush. Actually, no, it was not. But I believe that people forgot over time that we were and are performing a beta test. The concept was clear and drafted out behind the scenes and we knew that it will be broken at times. We never claimed the system to be done, we were adjusting on the run to what we were doing. While we were patching loopholes, we were working and got headlessly delayed on essential fixes that made us decide to screw things over and rethink it from scratch again, trying to reapproach the initial idea. This is natural under the environment of testing new systems.

I have the feeling that it got forgotten that we always declared and will always declare the current and past approach as a test. Please don't forget that.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
Yeah sorry that we have been a bit on the silent front but that ends today! HAPPY THURSDAY everyone tho it is actually wednesday my time :P
Mercurial
Mercurial
At least, I'm happy that some pieces are being moved. Although more communication about the current situation would be appreciated...
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx

Reditum wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4495311

Happy Thursday!
How is it Thursday in our time zone CDFA

ztrot wrote:

Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
Sure, when are you gonna unveil the new system in its entirety? Ever since the BNG ranking was abolished it's been all talk and no solid numbers or names of anything until these kicks today. But we all want to see the numbers.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

xxdeathx wrote:

Reditum wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4495311

Happy Thursday!
How is it Thursday in our time zone CDFA

ztrot wrote:

Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
Sure, when are you gonna unveil the new system in its entirety? Ever since the BNG ranking was abolished it's been all talk and no solid numbers or names of anything until these kicks today. But we all want to see the numbers.
Glad you asked as you can see the post in the beatmap management forum that post will be updated and all the hard numbers will be there! Now mind you we are using this as a base for activity the automated system is not in place we have tired other formats but remember what we have been saying from the start all of these systems have been more or less tests, as we get ever closer to FINALIZED format we will keep you updated.

Edit: our main goal is to keep the ranking process moving while testing new things
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
if you mean this thread t/334994, it hasn't been updated since it was posted. People have been waiting quite some time for the finalized system.
Zero__wind
osu! Alumni
3,314 posts
Joined August 2012
Zero__wind
oh this is a good thing and should've been done much earlier and more frequently imo
people should know that they have to work hard to deserve their BN membership and rights, of course I mean, people who still want to stay in
and wow I'm still not out yet, I'm so surprised
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

xxdeathx wrote:

if you mean this thread t/334994, it hasn't been updated since it was posted. People have been waiting quite some time for the finalized system.
no not that thread keep an eye on the beatmap management forum
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Good to see it happened
Happy thursday guys!
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
My, my. I expected a big clean but not THIS BIG O_o

Happy Thursday and good job people!
Last edited by Raiden , edited 1 time in total.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav

Raiden wrote:

My, my. I expected a good clean but not THIS BIG O_o

Happy Thursday and good job people!
We are not done yet
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Not yet? O.o
How many BN will go away / are already removed?
Zhu Yuan
2,441 posts
Joined July 2012
Zhu Yuan
BN who are inactive for months have been removed, that was kinda obvious I think.

I just hope people read my post and took care of that ;_;
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
That's still to be cleared up. If I remember correctly, they are calculating numbers and scores and getting exact values /refer to this post/

If the value is not even close to the required activity, I guess they'll be kicked without further ado. In case they are close, discuss it with the BN in question.

/by the way when I said I expected a "good clean" I didn't imply that it was bad, sorry if I made you guys think that. I guess my wording is not the best. I think y'all doing great work moving this forward/
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Finally.

Also, whatever. I still have BNs left
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom

Stefan wrote:

Finally.

Also, whatever. I still have BNs left
Don't eat me please D:

_______________________________________


After looking at my recent activity, People could think i'm not really active as BN, concerning mods and icons. But I'm always here to help people, and if i were posting chatlogs with mappers i helped, i could get more kds, but i was too lazy for that or not really interested in earning a kd, maybe ? :o

For those who doubt about my activity, i will be always active as BN and and i'm willing to help anyone, help doesn't mean mod & icon. But i think i should give more icons now, in order to show I still do my BN job...
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
Finally². Only took me 3 month to get out of that group, thats like no time at all \:D/ /s.

Seriously though, I kinda want to see if this system ever gets to the point where it's actually balanced. Would be a shame if it wouldnt ever reach that. Also, why exactly isnt there a way to opt out of the group yet? I dont quite get why people are forced to stay in there whenever they first enter.
BeatofIke
Beatmap Nominator
4,245 posts
Joined September 2011
BeatofIke
I'm actually a bit inactive atm, but I still mod and nominate from time to time.
My recent mods are just my leftovers (old mod requests, old timing requests, old M4M requests, etc.)
Mercurial
Mercurial
You guys (recent non-nominators and nominators as well) should say this to the administration, I really don't think this is the place to say such things.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

Yauxo wrote:

Finally². Only took me 3 month to get out of that group, thats like no time at all \:D/ /s.

Seriously though, I kinda want to see if this system ever gets to the point where it's actually balanced. Would be a shame if it wouldnt ever reach that. Also, why exactly isnt there a way to opt out of the group yet? I dont quite get why people are forced to stay in there whenever they first enter.
why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
Because then you get shit like this where the team completely overflows with people who arent actively contributing ; )
Mercurial
Mercurial

ztrot wrote:

why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?
Because people sometimes feel useful, but they don't want to have to charge with some responsabilities on their back.

Ex: I can be the best modder out there and be nominated to be a Nominator or even a QAT, but I would decline that because I want to mod freely, without chains or holds.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
Also, note that literally every other team allows you to leave if you dont wish to contribute.

The reason I was told that leaving wasnt allowed is that "BN is a simulation of modding v2, and you cant leave in modding v2 either", although i honestly havent heard ANYTHING about moddingv2 other than as a reason to NOT fix problems.
Mercurial
Mercurial
Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
Crimmi
1,947 posts
Joined June 2009
Crimmi

Mercurial wrote:

Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
And the MAT with their purple name was unique for the time, maybe bring that back sometime in the future?
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Mercurial wrote:

Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
If you're a BN - or want to become one - for a different name colour and title at the forums then you're probably wrong in the team imo.


I guess it's somewhere discussable to say "I don't want to be a BN anymore, I want to leave it". You just to be inactive at all if you don't wish to be part of it, that's how it always worked since the newBAT addition.
Deimos
802 posts
Joined April 2012
Deimos
Leaving the group due to inactivity is one thing, but to force the members to be inactive so they can leave the group another. Not everyone might want to stop modding maps just 'cause they don't longer want to be a BN for whatever reasons. It should be a normal thing when you have to make an application to join the group that you can leave the group by making an application as well. Just 'cause that's how it was since the beginning doesn't mean it has to stay at it is forever.

Be more flexible.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
I dont quite get why there has to be a "you wont leave, eff you" mentality in the first place. What do you get out of that? The modder has to stop modding/doing what they like just to leave the group, like that'll help...

There have been some points made in previous posts, I dont think that it'd change anything if I were re-post them.
Last edited by Yauxo , edited 1 time in total.
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
And more people are out
How many (in numbers) are removed and how many are still in it?
I'm quite curious to see how much people (percentually) got removed
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
Around 13 more got removed which leaves BN to the number of 76 if I'm not mistaken out of 10X. Around 25-30% of the BNG removed

Huge, really huge purge I must admit lol
Crimmi
1,947 posts
Joined June 2009
Crimmi

Raiden wrote:

Around 13 more got removed which leaves BN to the number of 76 if I'm not mistaken out of 10X. Around 25-30% of the BNG removed

Huge, really huge purge I must admit lol
30% to be exact out of the 106
Last edited by Crimmi , edited 1 time in total.
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman

Stefan wrote:

I guess it's somewhere discussable to say "I don't want to be a BN anymore, I want to leave it". You just to be inactive at all if you don't wish to be part of it, that's how it always worked since the newBAT addition.
Not actually true. Some BATs in the past actually requested for some downtime or when they feel they have to leave. If we played that "waiting game" back then, you would see maybe 100 or so Alumni. There's also some members who completely quit which has to be considered.
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
That's quite a lot O,o
Still quite some left, I though we had +- 70, good to see that's what's left
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman
Another thing I've noticed that I forgot to say. When there was a lot of BNs active, it also put a lot of stress with the bubble / qualify limit that created this "rank race" problem. Even with the purge, will this limit be the same or re-balanced to the new activity count?
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo

whymeman wrote:

Another thing I've noticed that I forgot to say. When there was a lot of BNs active, it also put a lot of stress with the bubble / qualify limit that created this "rank race" problem. Even with the purge, will this limit be the same or re-balanced to the new activity count?
We've already requested this multiple times and nobody (staff) wanted to change this. There were multiple reasons given (such as QAT limitations) while we had tons of BNs, I dont see them changing anything with less BNs now.
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I think it'll be the same, as the inactive ones are removed, bit the actives' activity is still the same
I for example found out I was insanely active is August
And in July too actually
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman
Hmmm...... as long as the team don't get worked up over the limit issue and worry more about the maps themselves, then mappers can relax easier with less DQ fears. As I would see it, that "room" given from the limit is wasted on every DQ that is made from carelessness caused by modding too fast on demand while under pressure trying to provide results. Because of the excess of mistakes in the past, the limit got tighter but also increased that stress of trying to get more maps up and ready before being bared down by the limit. If maps can be qualified and clear through the trial period without faults and onward for lets say.... 3 months, then maybe the limit can be set a bit higher. But, the opposite can be true if the work is sloppy for those 3 months, the limit can be tighter and more strict.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
So that we'll eventually reach 1 qualify/day? There will always be disqualifications, no matter what you do - There will always be something that the BNs think is okay, but the QATs dont.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,498 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
You can to consider the membership as some attribute you unlock and eventually lose or keep.
On a system that is based on automation and score, you can neither retire or quit. It's like you want to quit being Top20 in Catch the Beat. There is no "Contact the staff and we delete you out of that".
The logic behind "you can not resign" was, that you join upon your score and leave upon your score. No more, no less. And in any future and automated system, you will neither be able to simply quit, unless you just stop doing things.

You unlocked an ability. You either keep it by keeping score or lose it by losing score. This is not a club you can join and leave as you wish, because that's not how future automated systems will work anyways.

And better get used to it now, before it changes and you start finding it troublesome again :U
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,317 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
I find it extraordinarily upsetting that apparently, peppy and Loctav do not communicate with each other that much (vague assumption, I know, but how would you think of seeing these comments?) . It's not the first time I've seen comments like this, and well, I don't know what I should think about that, even less what the whole community thinks about it. It's all these things which make the community unsure what is going to happen next, speaking of upcoming changes. Also the BN thing. It was a matter for such a long time, and not even now we know what is going to happen.

I personally stopped following that whole stuff, because as announced 300 times, it's going to change anyway again. It's sad to see how these things are handled and how much confusion the community gets through that.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
crap

xxdeathx wrote:

Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.
Imagine you're shopping and see that sweet looking apple, almost as if it's special. You like apples, so you buy one and go home. You put the special apple down to your other apples and dont eat it for a few days, it spoils and stinks around the other ones. You want to throw it away, but you cant. You've already paid money for that - You have to eat it, no matter what.

Oh, but you really really dont want to eat that spoiled apple? Well, too bad, I dont care. You'll eat it.

If you play around a bit, you can translate that into getting into the BNG, changing the BN ranking and qualifiying system and trying to get out.
Last edited by Yauxo , edited 1 time in total.
Mercurial
Mercurial

Irreversible wrote:

I find it extraordinarily upsetting that apparently, peppy and Loctav do not communicate with each other that much (vague assumption, I know, but how would you think of seeing these comments?) . It's not the first time I've seen comments like this, and well, I don't know what I should think about that, even less what the whole community thinks about it. It's all these things which make the community unsure what is going to happen next, speaking of upcoming changes. Also the BN thing. It was a matter for such a long time, and not even now we know what is going to happen.

I personally stopped following that whole stuff, because as announced 300 times, it's going to change anyway again. It's sad to see how these things are handled and how much confusion the community gets through that.
I couldn't have said it better...
Ayachi-
2,261 posts
Joined November 2013
Ayachi-
I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman

Yauxo wrote:

So that we'll eventually reach 1 qualify/day? There will always be disqualifications, no matter what you do - There will always be something that the BNs think is okay, but the QATs dont.
I'm not saying it will be eventually 1 a day, but what i'm pointing out is that if the system suffers, the people in it suffers as well. DQs are not avoidable 100% but it can be reduced depending on the methods needed to do so. If the DQ : Qualified ratio isn't extreme like it is now, then maybe the limits could be better and less restricting vs. a high DQ raito that requires much less bubbles and qualifying going on.
Deimos
802 posts
Joined April 2012
Deimos
I would be more interested in how many users would be BNs when the system were fully automated. Right now, we have 78 76 BNs.

I still don't get why they have to be BNs based on some numbers, why they can't join or retire as they like. Problem of this is that modder who don't want to be BNs are forced to be one and are attracting automatically more intention due to the banner and the yellow bar. The only choice you give them is to stop modding. I also got asked to mod someone's map few times, as a non-modder/mapper, no idea how often a BN gets asked. Yeah, many BNs in the past cried when they lost their beloved redname, their reward, their status, but those wanted to be BNs, they wanted to be something special, being noticed as someone who can bubble/rank a map.

I personally would prefer an invitation rather than a "Good job, you are now a BN. You don't want to be one? Stop modding or you will never be removed, forever." Maybe I am just exaggerating.
Last edited by Deimos , edited 1 time in total.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
DQs should not be avoided.

they are GOOD.

fuck
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
stop hypothesising and watch and wait. rome wasn't wanged in a day.
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom

whymeman wrote:

DQs are not avoidable 100% but it can be reduced depending on the methods needed to do so.
Better spending time to make things safe and well, than rushing and get surprised later.
There are 3 pages of bubbled maps, good luck.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx

Yauxo wrote:

crap

xxdeathx wrote:

Honestly I don't get why it's a big deal to some people that they can't ask to be removed. As others have said, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't mod if you don't want to. If you want to be able to mod on your own accord, don't give icons then. Too simple.
Imagine you're shopping and see that sweet looking apple, almost as if it's special. You like apples, so you buy one and go home. You put the special apple down to your other apples and dont eat it for a few days, it spoils and stinks around the other ones. You want to throw it away, but you cant. You've already paid money for that - You have to eat it, no matter what.

Oh, but you really really dont want to eat that spoiled apple? Well, too bad, I dont care. You'll eat it.

If you play around a bit, you can translate that into getting into the BNG, changing the BN ranking and qualifiying system and trying to get out.
I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman

peppy wrote:

DQs should not be avoided.

they are GOOD.

fuck
Yes, DQs are good to fix an existing pre-approval problem before it is left as a permanent mark that is hard to remove. It is also good when the problems are caught early. But the problem was the excess amounts back to back that made it seem like a curse to many mappers. Especially for the "legit reasons" that seemed far-fetched with little explanation and commutation between the mapper ones that actually did the DQ. On top of that, when the DQs were happening, some maps seemed as if they were left to die, or those that contribute to the map end up dropping out feeling it was their fault for the DQ as if they are powerless and have no where to turn on how to handle the matter.

As much as DQ is a "good" thing in terms of preventing serious errors from existing in a finished product, preventing them from happening with more time and effort into the maps before qualifying helps much more. Like, treating a map that wasn't DQed yet as if it was DQed in the aim to find serious problems before they actually cause the DQ to happen in the first place.

peppy wrote:

stop hypothesising and watch and wait. rome wasn't wanged in a day.
Its not that easy to tell people to stop guessing and wait when a lot of questions still exist though. Addressing a few questions could bring the tension down a bit and maybe give answers to more questions and things that have to be fixed. Being too aggressive about asking questions won't bring much good at this time...
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman

ztrot wrote:

I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml


Intentionally broken link....? Or do we add in the Xk/pubhtml part?
sheela
2,651 posts
Joined October 2011
sheela

whymeman wrote:

ztrot wrote:

I have yet to see anyone ask a question that couldn't be looked up on said thread i guess no one wants to read https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml


Intentionally broken link....? Or do we add in the Xk/pubhtml part?
ztrot means this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

I guess he copied the short link in the postinstead of copying the full link.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu

peppy wrote:

DQs should not be avoided.

they are GOOD.

fuck
Eh. Wouldn't avoiding DQs be good? Not in a "I'll stretch the rules as far as possible before I DQ" way, but as in striving for the best quality before actually being qualified, and thus not actually needing a DQ?


Also, maybe this is a stupid idea and there's some dumb flaw in it, but would it be possible to create a queue system for maps to be qualified?
So, after a BN clicks the qualify button, the map is put into a queue:

  1. When a map is put into the queue, it's put in some position in relation to the maps age/star priority (so older maps have higher priority).
  2. For every day a map is in the queue, their priority increases, and they move up the list.
  3. BNs can check maps in the queue, and if they think a map is particularily good (or if a mapper wants another BN to check their map), they can approve of the map, which will increase the map's priority.
  4. The priority extra BNs checking your map gives should decrease, while the priority time gives should increase, so that a map never gets stuck in the queue, never getting out because other maps gets higher priority from BN checks.
  5. A DQ'd map, or a map deemed not ready from BNs, other modders or whatever, while in the queue, will have a higher priority when they go back into the queue (so if your map gets taken out of the queue at the 10th spot, you don't start all over in the queue, but gets added back in at let's say 15th or 18th or something), so this action doesn't feel as damaging as going back to the start with the current qualified system (you have to wait another 7 days if your map gets DQd on the 6th day etc)
This way the maps that get qualified each day aren't the ones that have the fastest button-clicking BNs, but the ones that have been ready in a long time or had more quality control. It's no longer a race against time, and if your map gets into the queue you're guaranteed that your map will eventually get qualified, as long as nothing happens during the queue.

It's kind of like the current qualified system, but it allows for more than 6 maps a day to be added to the queue, as long as we assume maps gets checked and removed from the queue by BNs and other modders. There'll still be a limit of how many maps that can be in a queue, but if there are more maps in the queue, more maps can be taken out as well. It should also be more fair this way, as it's based more on map quality and time spent. And there's still a minimum of 2 BN checks.
whymeman
osu! Alumni
3,432 posts
Joined November 2008
whymeman

sheela901 wrote:

ztrot means this one: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Xk/pubhtml

I guess he copied the short link in the postinstead of copying the full link.
Ah, thanks. I do like how thoroughly detailed it is compared to the MAT/BAT ranking chart that was previously used a while back.
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I'm personally quite surprised I'm THAT active
103 mods/icons in 3 months O.o
Exa
446 posts
Joined January 2015
Exa

Baraatje123 wrote:

I'm personally quite surprised I'm THAT active
103 mods/icons in 3 months O.o
Damn Bara. If only the majority was as active as you are. I guess it requires a lot of dedication which not many people can afford to have due to rl.
DragonSlayer96
418 posts
Joined July 2012
DragonSlayer96

ztrot wrote:

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

I am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.
So soon as they will still be opened this month? If so, I feel like there would not really be fair to the new BN's since the month is half over and they have such little time to icon things since the applications are open for a week or so and then it takes roughly a week to go through the apps (so if it does take two weeks, that will be them joining on the 25th of this month, only giving them until the 30th to place icons and that seems like way to little time honestly). I just do not want them to be opened later on in the day, people apply, become a BN and they rush and place icons/rank maps in the few days they have until the month ends and just have the maps DQ out of the rush (which leads back to mappers feeling like crap because their maps got DQ'ed and also the BN's involved in the ranking process).

I honestly do not know if you guys are still purging the BNG a bit more or not right now or if you guys plan on removing inactive members monthly so it doesn't come to this anymore (which the new system seemed like it would do). I know I am nowhere near the most active modder on the game. Can I join this group? Yea. Have I tried? Yea. Will try to apply to become a BN when it opens up again and keep on applying if I get turned down? Yea. Will I make it this time? I have no idea because there are a lot of other people who are also excellent modders who will also apply and I might not pick my best mods to get judged.

But - in the end of the day - this is just one person's view on it. I just do not want the few people who would make it if they open up for this month to feel pressured to do what everyone else had 6 times as many days do to and do very hasty icons/qualifies. I know that some bubbles/qualifies can take days on end talking back and forth with the mapper to make sure that everything the BN feels is correct on the mapset.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata

DragonSlayer96 wrote:

am just wondering when will the BN applications be opened again
they will be open soon we are just getting things cleaned.

So soon as they will still be opened this month? If so, I feel like there would not really be fair to the new BN's since the month is half over and they have such little time to icon things since the applications are open for a week or so and then it takes roughly a week to go through the apps (so if it does take two weeks, that will be them joining on the 25th of this month, only giving them until the 30th to place icons and that seems like way to little time honestly). I just do not want them to be opened later on in the day, people apply, become a BN and they rush and place icons/rank maps in the few days they have until the month ends and just have the maps DQ out of the rush (which leads back to mappers feeling like crap because their maps got DQ'ed and also the BN's involved in the ranking process).
If they begin applications now they'd be ahead of schedule actually. They didn't finish July BN applications until the 21st of July. Might as well just call them early August BN's xD.

Anyways, I see a lot of inactive BN's have been removed which is definitely a step in the right direction. But what about the problem about too many bubbles in pending and the ever-present qualification cap? Are you guys planning on addressing this problem of "too many active BN's"? Because right now, adding more BN's will just result in even more activity, and there are already so many maps being bubbled every day that additional BN's doesn't seem necessary or even beneficial for the system. At the same time though, we shouldn't turn a blind eye from all those modders who want to become BN's (for whatever reason) on the basis of "we don't need you".

Are there plans to increasing the QAT so that the qualification slot can return to 9 slots per day as it was a few months ago? Also, when can we be expecting the upcoming ranking/scoring system changes to be implemented? Something besides soon(tm) would be nice xD. I appreciate the solid dates we were given for the purge. I hope we can see that for other BN/ranking related dates like monthly BN Applications/system changes. Back when there was a BN ranking, the scores were updated on the 1st of every month which was quite professional.
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,885 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion

monstrata wrote:

Anyways, I see a lot of inactive BN's have been removed which is definitely a step in the right direction. But what about the problem about too many bubbles in pending and the ever-present qualification cap? Are you guys planning on addressing this problem of "too many active BN's"? Because right now, adding more BN's will just result in even more activity, and there are already so many maps being bubbled every day that additional BN's doesn't seem necessary or even beneficial for the system. At the same time though, we shouldn't turn a blind eye from all those modders who want to become BN's (for whatever reason) on the basis of "we don't need you".

Are there plans to increasing the QAT so that the qualification slot can return to 9 slots per day as it was a few months ago? Also, when can we be expecting the upcoming ranking/scoring system changes to be implemented? Something besides soon(tm) would be nice xD. I appreciate the solid dates we were given for the purge. I hope we can see that for other BN/ranking related dates like monthly BN Applications/system changes. Back when there was a BN ranking, the scores were updated on the 1st of every month which was quite professional.
This might not be a problem in Standard or o!m, but CtB and Taiko are looking pretty light on nomination capability right now - Taiko 4 BNs + 4 QATs, CtB 5 BNs and 3 QATs - and this doesn't take into account the fact that some people (myself included) mod another mode or modes as well. More QATs might "lighten the load" and allow the qualification limit to be raised again, but I get the feeling this probably isn't going to happen.

Looking forward to seeing the new ranking system implemented however - the recent google doc was the first time I've been able to gauge my performance relative to other team members since I joined 4 months ago lol.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,864 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
@Cxu: It could be done in a manual way for now, like this and that. The idea itself isn't new in general, but does have a bit of a difference in regulation. Other game modes showed interest to this as well, but for now we are still testing it. This also referes to JBHyperion post: Even though it's kind of a bummer that Taiko lost some of his BNs(ctb, too), we might be able to compensate it by continuing working together in this queue.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo

xxdeathx wrote:

I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.
explained crap
You buy the apple/You join the BNG (you commit to something)
The apple is good, you can eat it | The overall ranking system/BN ranking is good, things work together (you like the thing you're committing to)
You put it down to the other apples (alot of apples) | You get into the BN group, more and more people join
The apple spoils, it stinks | The ranking system changes into something different, gets bad
You dont like spoiled apples | You dont like the "new" ranking system/BN ranking (What you've liked has become bad)
You want to throw the apple away | You want to leave the BNG - but you cant.
You have to eat the apple, even if you dont want to | You have to stay in the BNG, even if you dont want to
The apple stinks, but you have to "endure" the smell | You like modding/helping other people, but you cant do that anymore (since you have to wait to get kicked)

I dont want to be in a system that has changed after my initial entry. I took an apple to give a simplified example of what I think about the system. It was good at first, but with all the changes and a way-too-big BNG things have gotten bad and I dont want to work with that anymore.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Yauxo wrote:

You like modding/helping other people, but you cant do that anymore (since you have to wait to get kicked)
So you cannot mod other beatmaps because you're a BN? huh?
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
He is right
If you want to quit being BN, but still want to mod some maps, There is no possibility, as the mod score goes up, making it seem as if you are active
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,885 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion
You could still mod via IRC/PM and just not post the logs or receive kudosu, and it would "appear" as if you were inactive/not contributing, but of course this isn't ideal :/
Bara-
11,980 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Just as harby did some time ago
Mod and iconed still, but rejected ALL kudosu he got
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
So uh what is the point in rejecting legit kds ?
Mercurial
Mercurial

PyaKura wrote:

So uh what is the point in rejecting legit kds ?
Wanted to get out of BN group.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,560 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
It's probably the fact taht they have a label of "bug me if you want your map qualified!" on them when they're BNs, which is probably pretty annoying to get a bunch of mod requests in-game and whatnot when you're trying to enjoy the game without having any obligations. I guess the possibility to "hide" your nominator status would be possible during modding v2? Where even if you have enough score, you can decide to not show that publicly or smth. dno.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane

Baraatje123 wrote:

He is right
If you want to quit being BN, but still want to mod some maps, There is no possibility, as the mod score goes up, making it seem as if you are active
You can always tell people you're not nominating maps anymore and keep modding as usual, no one will be yelling at you for that.

Activity won't drop that much after the purge, we all agree on this. The "too many bubbles" can be easily fixed by focusing more on checking the already bubbled maps. In the old times there were problems like this, and were fixed easily like this. Qualify cap is an issue? Stop giving bubbles that easily while this number reduces, pop the bubble if necessary (like if the map is still poor to get ranked).
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

DakeDekaane wrote:

You can always tell people you're not nominating maps anymore and keep modding as usual, no one will be yelling at you for that.
As a mapper it is actually quite annonying when you ask several BNs to check your map and every single one of them tell you that they are not willing to do BN work anymore. So yeah, it's true that it's not their fault, being unable to leave on their own and we cannot blame them for it, but it is very unpractical to find 'real' active BNs.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo

DakeDekaane wrote:

The "too many bubbles" can be easily fixed by focusing more on checking the already bubbled maps. In the old times there were problems like this, and were fixed easily like this. Qualify cap is an issue? Stop giving bubbles that easily while this number reduces, pop the bubble if necessary (like if the map is still poor to get ranked).
The thing with "stop giving bubbles that easy" is that every BN has a different subjective opinion. If you dont like it, dont bubble it - Im pretty sure that someone else will though, maybe even just for the points
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx

Yauxo wrote:

xxdeathx wrote:

I don't see the connection, so you're gonna have to spell it out for me. BNG membership is nothing like eating a spoiled apple. It affects you minimally.
explained crap
You buy the apple/You join the BNG (you commit to something)
The apple is good, you can eat it | The overall ranking system/BN ranking is good, things work together (you like the thing you're committing to)
You put it down to the other apples (alot of apples) | You get into the BN group, more and more people join
The apple spoils, it stinks | The ranking system changes into something different, gets bad
You dont like spoiled apples | You dont like the "new" ranking system/BN ranking (What you've liked has become bad)
You want to throw the apple away | You want to leave the BNG - but you cant.
You have to eat the apple, even if you dont want to | You have to stay in the BNG, even if you dont want to
The apple stinks, but you have to "endure" the smell | You like modding/helping other people, but you cant do that anymore (since you have to wait to get kicked)

I dont want to be in a system that has changed after my initial entry. I took an apple to give a simplified example of what I think about the system. It was good at first, but with all the changes and a way-too-big BNG things have gotten bad and I dont want to work with that anymore.
Why do you want to leave the BNG? does staying in it affect you somehow?
Who says you have to stay in the BNG? You can avoid giving icons or modding. Why do you care if you have to stay?
Why can't you keep on modding/helping others? Why do you care how modding activity affects your BN status?

Ultimately, these three points are contingent on the assertion that membership in the BNG causes you tangible distress (like eating a spoiled apple), which I can't see it doing.
BN's are normal users with the ability to bubble/rank. I thought it's rather easy to understand that you don't have to care about this if you aren't interested in it; dont icon anything. There, you're just like a normal user. Who cares what your score is or whether you're technically in the BNG?
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,656 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Why don't you want them to leave the BNG? does keeping them in affect you somehow?

You could flip that question around too. I don't see any tangible distress in having a BNG membership, but I also don't see any tangible distress in simply removing them.
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom
I just have the feeling that, a lot of people or BNs think that being part of BNG is a kind of recognition for being good at modding or active in this community. Also, some people could think BNG is the inner circle of the best modders on this game. For those who think that, you're wrong.

BNG is not part of staff members, don't feel like someone that could be intimidating just because you have a poor BN title. That's disgusting.
And don't consider yourself as someone important that could change the current system, don't yell "i want to quit because xxxx reasons, firetruck this system, the staff members etc". Just don't say anything and make yourself forgotten, just fade away like a little flower on the river.
I'm just disgusted by these kind of "drama".
You were welcomed by the staff members to join the BNG, and now that's how you say "thanks" to them ?
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx

monstrata wrote:

Why don't you want them to leave the BNG? does keeping them in affect you somehow?

You could flip that question around too. I don't see any tangible distress in having a BNG membership, but I also don't see any tangible distress in simply removing them.
You're right, it doesn't matter either way, but loctav and ztrot already decided on the existing system for whatever reasons to simulate automation.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,864 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Okay guys, let's cut it here for a moment. I can understand that many of you have still questions or want to talk about certain things this system brings with it, but things are becoming heated up even though the main point of this thread has been reached already and announced. I will lock the thread for now so everyone can think a bit about this for themself.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
81 / 160