It is. But that is ridiculously stupid, even as Collab.baraatje123 wrote:
Nope
That's a bit excessive
Unless you loop it to approval size and make ir special
Not sure if that's possible though
But like Snaggletooth writes, there are songs that are over 1:00 but may not have 1:00 of drain time due to breaks and/or intro's. I don't think this should be a hard rule. A guideline? Definitely, but an absolute rule? No.Loctav wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Wording it like this would disallow TV-Sizes and "short ver." songs completely.Granger wrote:
I disgree, even with the new proposal of limiting to 1 minute if the song is 1 minute or longer.
If you want to stop people from excessively cutting songs out of lazyness simply forbid that or, better, limit how much of a song you're allowed to cut. Something like that:The final drain time of a song must be at least 85% of the full version song.
The wording says "full version song" so technically it does disallow TV Sizes, since those aren't the "full version". Changing it to "official release" would solve the issue, more or less.Mercurial wrote:
Anime songs (TVSize) are official so there's nothing against them.Yauxo wrote:
Wording it like this would disallow TV-Sizes and "short ver." songs completely.
Unless you don't map 15/20 seconds of your selected song, then there's nothing against it.UndeadCapulet wrote:
The wording says "full version song" so technically it does disallow TV Sizes, since those aren't the "full version". Changing it to "official release" would solve the issue, more or less.
thismonstrata wrote:
Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.
But, why do we need to make 2 things, just make a rule that is providing an exception, potential also is not the right word imo, that would cause people asking whether they can have song less than minute or not. Potential could mean remix, lowered BPM or loop.monstrata wrote:
Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.
but then we'd still have the issue of actual full length songs that are just above one minute but cant achive 1 minute full drain time. Thats why I'm saying, this should only apply to cuts made by the mapper.Wafu wrote:
But, why do we need to make 2 things, just make a rule that is providing an exception, potential also is not the right word imo, that would cause people asking whether they can have song less than minute or not. Potential could mean remix, lowered BPM or loop.monstrata wrote:
Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Official cuts = i.e. TV Size. Short Ver. provided by artist
I am not talking about official cuts. And if you want to include short songs, that I brought up (example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/301072),Wafu wrote:
It applies only to cuts made by mapper. "with an exception of official cuts"
Yes and no.Snaggletooth wrote:
How about:The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
"Hur dur, I hate short maps because they bring nothing to the game because Muh opinions > your opinions".tuddster wrote:
I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked.
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.Snaggletooth wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
I'm not sure where you found that 85% mapped proposal but I have mapped and seen several maps with long intros that are quite unmappable or really doesn't need that much of it mapped. Further restrictions like that are bound to decrease quality of some songs. I might have misunderstood you but yehMercurial wrote:
Yes and no.Snaggletooth wrote:
How about:The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
Yes for what you said.
No for "Yeah, I've got this sweet song I do want to map but I don't to spend much time on it. Uhm, great idea! What about cutting off this 2:15 song to 1 minute or so? It's perfect!"
I'm okay with the "85% of the song mapped" option."Hur dur, I hate short maps because they bring nothing to the game because Muh opinions > your opinions".tuddster wrote:
I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked.
That kind of people.
Then I really think the word 'cut' is what strikes me odd here. I don't disagree with you, I think I misunderstood orWafu wrote:
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.
If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.
Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
Oh yeah, the 'with exceptions' means that all other cuts can be done, but must be 1 minute and aboveSnaggletooth wrote:
Then I really think the word 'cut' is what strikes me odd here. I don't disagree with you, I think I misunderstood orWafu wrote:
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.
If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.
Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
perhaps we misunderstood eachother.
When you say 'officially cut' songs, I think about TV sizes. I think about intros, I wanted to adress
short songs that have an intro, a vers, chourse and an outro in just above one minute. I thought that these
exceptionally short and full songs would be banned with this rule.
Just because something doesn't get abused right now is not a an argument against preventing that abuse in the future (regardless whether cutting a song is an abuse or not, just logically speaking).Lanturn wrote:
Maps don't even get abused enough to need this "1 minute cut" rule thing. It's pretty pointless. Just let mappers map what they want. A guideline at best, but still pointless.
Also, back on topic. No to the 1 minute rule that was originally proposed, and definitely no to this new one that you guys kinda took over the thread with.
Sorry if I'm mistaken, but your wording still doesn't cover songs that haven't been cut at all, meaning a song that is originally (= not cut in any way) 1:02 long but has an unmappable intro, outro etc. won't be rankable. At least for me, "official cuts" excludes official non-cuts. Snaggletooth's wording covered this.Wafu wrote:
This is almost the same thing I said, ...Snaggletooth wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.
How about this:Wafu wrote:
... it allows another exception.
If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".
So what about my example, a song that is one minute and two seconds long?Wafu wrote:
Official non-cuts are covered in my wording. There is said that the 1-minute applies only if official version is longer than 1 minute. That means if opening is 40 second long as a full version, it is excluded from 1 minute rule, ...
I see. But if you have to cut an already short song because of the 80%-rule, wouldn't that possibly be a case of not giving "sufficiently long gameplay experience" then? If not, what about excluding short songs from the 80%-rule? : \Wafu wrote:
Your wording actually conflicts with other rule. That is if less than 80% of mp3 is unused, you have to cut it. If original was shorter than one minute, you couldn't fulfill both rules. ...
As it is, not add, right?DakeDekaane wrote:
I'd say we better keep the rule add it is, and let modders, Nominators and QAT to encourage mapping songs with a proper length, in case of the ridiculous cuts.
Against the Sun has been qualified with such a RIDICULOUS CUT (About 2 friggin' minutes, with 46 seconds of draining time). Things like that one shouldn't be allowed.DakeDekaane wrote:
You guys are overthinking a lot about this with ambiguous wordings.
I'd say we better keep the rule add it is, and let modders, Nominators and QAT to encourage mapping songs with a proper length, in case of the ridiculous cuts.
With a recently ranked map at an disappointing length of :45 seconds, and the excuse of "being to tired to map the whole thing" I think this should be a rule to avoid the flood, next thing you know, there might be a cut version of Dopamine to 0:40 seconds for shits and giggles (I will commit hara-kiri if I see that) because "Hurr durr, BN'z don't check long maps because BN "x" doesn't check 4 min, 8 diff mapsets." But if you can't can't map a long 4 minute song, at least cut to a game wise length like what I did with SOUND HOLIC feat. Mayumi Morinaga - Yukihana -SEKKA- for example (which an incredible 5:18 cut to 1:55). Sorry if I get anything wrong, it's my first time speaking out seriously on the forums and I don't want to see the shit fly with drama with people using This as an excuse. Case in point: "If you're going to make a cut, make it a reasonable cut"Regraz wrote:
Avoiding ridiculous cuts is really a great idea. It shows the respect of the composer and the responsibility as a mapper or a member of the community.
There're maps I saw in my playing osu! that, some mappers simply cut the chorus part of a song and map it. This is not good imo. It's showing you are too lazy (maybe). At least you should map the first verse and chorus together ;w;
Crimmi wrote:
With a recently ranked map at an disappointing length of :45 seconds, and the excuse of "being to tired to map the whole thing" I think this should be a rule to avoid the flood, next thing you know, there might be a cut version of Dopamine to 0:40 seconds for shits and giggles (I will commit hara-kiri if I see that) because "Hurr durr, BN'z don't check long maps because BN "x" doesn't check 4 min, 8 diff mapsets." But if you can't can't map a long 4 minute song, at least cut to a game wise length like what I did with SOUND HOLIC feat. Mayumi Morinaga - Yukihana -SEKKA- for example (which an incredible 5:18 cut to 1:55). Sorry if I get anything wrong, it's my first time speaking out seriously on the forums and I don't want to see the shit fly with drama with people using This as an excuse. Case in point: "If you're going to make a cut, make it a reasonable cut"
But to me, this is between the lines of a guideline and a rule (But I might be wrong, just rethinking on what I said in my earlier post.), I mean if there is a song that is repeating itself like a BGM, I could see it be either looped or cut to what ever length the mapper desires as long it's credible and punishment is a bit too extreme for that.Mercurial wrote:
You're totally right, people do cut songs because they're lazy as fuck and they just don't care about the song, they just want a ranked map going for them.
As I said before, such practices should be avoided and punished if needed.
I thought it was agreed that songs such as Granat which are shorter than 1 minute are fine.XinCrin wrote:
I agree with this but if the full song is around 40 seconds?.
Then it's no problem, (to me ofc, as long it's just an intro or a BGM or w/e.) but cutting a song from ex. 6:10 to a pathetic 0:50 just to get a quick speedrank is a spit in the face to those who might have mapped the full version to the song and awaiting a few months for their map to be ranked.XinCrin wrote:
I agree with this but if the full song is around 40 seconds?.
Because songs like that are composed to be that short, look at Nekomata Master - Welcome to tricoro system for example, which is a very low 0:26 secs, but dumbing down a good song for example 3:10 seconds to a mere 0:35 seems a bit lazy, but meh.PyaKura wrote:
I thought it was agreed that songs such as Granat which are shorter than 1 minute are fine.
I'd like to point out that the proposal has been changed many posts ago, and the exact wording of this new proposal has already been discussed on the last page too (without any response from staff's side yet?), so I'd advise to read through all of that before reposting opinions here that have already been posted many times.XinCrin wrote:
I agree with this but if the full song is around 40 seconds?.
Well I read through the other posts before doing so, I just wanted to get my two cents in and prevent map shields. (people who use recently ranked maps with the same problems to prove their points.) most people won't care about my opinions any ways.Bonsai wrote:
I'd like to point out that the proposal has been changed many posts ago, and the exact wording of this new proposal has already been discussed on the last page too (without any response from staff's side yet?), so I'd advise to read through all of that before reposting opinions here that have already been posted many times.XinCrin wrote:
I agree with this but if the full song is around 40 seconds?.
As a side note, I wonder why this thread hasn't been locked yet, since there is no real discussion going on anymore
I'm really not sure about that. Well I know I'd hate it if a song was cut exclusively because a certain part of the song is cool and the rest is not.B1rd wrote:
There shouldn't be a rule that disallows cuts as it would prevent some good maps from being ranked
PyaKura wrote:
I'm really not sure about that. Well I know I'd hate it if a song was cut exclusively because a certain part of the song is cool and the rest is not.B1rd wrote:
There shouldn't be a rule that disallows cuts as it would prevent some good maps from being ranked
i personally dont have any problems with <1 min maps as long as it isnt an extreme cut. maps like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/192763 are just nice but it wouldnt be allowed to rank maps like this anymore.ZiRoX wrote:
Agree with this. If the song is <1 min, let it be, that's the way it is. But if the song is longer, then cut versions should be 1 min or longer. I've seen cases where mappers cut the kiai time from a song and make an entire mapset out of it and it's sickening.Nwolf wrote:
Maybe add a rule that disallows cutting songs too much, like cutting a song should not result it being shorter than 90 seconds. I think that's a bigger problem than 30-60 sec maps in general
I was about to write my opinion, but looking around a bit showed that my thoughts have already been exposedDakeDekaane wrote:
As much as I hate ridiculously short maps, if that's how the song is, then yes, they're free to go ahead. If it's a blatant lazy ass cut, please don't even try, you're consuming time that could be used on maps that truly deserve it.
PS: If you're going to map short songs, please map stuff worth of it.
Euny wrote:
yeah i know short maps arent fun. because we are expert players. but lets think of it.. sometimes short maps gives a chance easy to get full combo for newest players in my opinion. i think, 30secs map still need to this game. we should offer to chance for newest players. lets remember that nice moments when we got fced short maps♥
was really surprised more people didn't understand this