your suggestion seems like too much effort for maps that short
This is way too better from the actual rule, it makes justice for true short maps lolLoctav wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
You do realize that not all beatmaps are "perfect" from the get-go, right? You'll also have maps that take huge amounts of effort from all sides to balance out the ones that slip through with ease. On a personal level, it feels like a waste of time looking through a 30 second beatmap set when there are sets out there that actually have a lot more thought and effort behind them. I would much rather promote a map set like that rather than some throwaway map that people will play once and toss aside. From the more practical end, I'm coming in from the time investment angle - time may be a nearly infinite source for you, but for others it is worth much more and I would prefer to spend time on a mapset that carries more impact than what effectively adds up to a quick jingle.Wafu wrote:
@Garven, I think that's not really thing to consider. Whether it is more work for others is firstly subjective (there might be instantly rankable beatmaps, but absolutely terrible ones and that's what determines whether the job of modders, BNs, QATs is going to be worth it). But why would we even consider that? Respectively, everyone is free to mod, bubble or qualify whatever he likes. For QATs it is more complicated, but that is limited by count and it is not that terrible to check 1 or 2 shorter maps than the others per whole page of qualified maps.
CptSqany, you did not say why would new group of short maps be needed, that's what Lach wanted to hear.Lach wrote:
?????CptSqBany wrote:
People still want to conquer, who is better in Global, Country, Mods, Friends ranking. So if somebody would map Full PUPA opening, that is 30 seconds long, then it would be thrown to trash?
But why?! Is there even a reason to enforce rules like these because of an unrelated poll?neonat wrote:
Am fine with the limit of minimum 1 minute
Now we're talking, this sounds so much better.Loctav wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Because there are mappers (like Loctav) who doesn't like <1 minute short maps, because most of them are vague and give next to no gameplay at all (There are a few exceptions to this, though).Snaggletooth wrote:
Why is there a need to change this rule anyways? I really dont see the point behind this. Even the new wording dosnt change the limit of 30 second, it only adds a paragraph that opens more questions and conflicts. You can't even go with a set percentage of drain as Granger proposed, considering how every song is diffrent.
Because there are mappers (like Loctav) who doesn't like <1 minute short maps, because most of them are vague and give next to no gameplay at all (There are a few exceptions to this, though).Snaggletooth wrote:
Why is there a need to change this rule anyways? I really dont see the point behind this. Even the new wording dosnt change the limit of 30 second, it only adds a paragraph that opens more questions and conflicts. You can't even go with a set percentage of drain as Granger proposed, considering how every song is diffrent.
I have to disagree with thisMercurial wrote:
Sometimes is pointless to map songs that are pure loops, though.Cloudchaser wrote:
People shouldn't cut original songs unless it's an official cut like from videogames.
I think Mercurial is reffering to cases where you have unnecessary many loops, taking your map which would be two minutes long for example. You wouldn't map a 7 second loop as many times to have two minutes in the end, do you?baraatje123 wrote:
I have to disagree with this
This requires the need to be creative, and do something different, as that'll make the map more fun to play
For example, my ranked map *CLICK*
The Original song is 7 seconds
There are 4-5 loops (5th being a fade out) but by usage of SV changes and overall changes all parts feel really different (perhaps not for easy though, but you get what I mean right?)
It is. But that is ridiculously stupid, even as Collab.baraatje123 wrote:
Nope
That's a bit excessive
Unless you loop it to approval size and make ir special
Not sure if that's possible though
But like Snaggletooth writes, there are songs that are over 1:00 but may not have 1:00 of drain time due to breaks and/or intro's. I don't think this should be a hard rule. A guideline? Definitely, but an absolute rule? No.Loctav wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Wording it like this would disallow TV-Sizes and "short ver." songs completely.Granger wrote:
I disgree, even with the new proposal of limiting to 1 minute if the song is 1 minute or longer.
If you want to stop people from excessively cutting songs out of lazyness simply forbid that or, better, limit how much of a song you're allowed to cut. Something like that:The final drain time of a song must be at least 85% of the full version song.
The wording says "full version song" so technically it does disallow TV Sizes, since those aren't the "full version". Changing it to "official release" would solve the issue, more or less.Mercurial wrote:
Anime songs (TVSize) are official so there's nothing against them.Yauxo wrote:
Wording it like this would disallow TV-Sizes and "short ver." songs completely.
Unless you don't map 15/20 seconds of your selected song, then there's nothing against it.UndeadCapulet wrote:
The wording says "full version song" so technically it does disallow TV Sizes, since those aren't the "full version". Changing it to "official release" would solve the issue, more or less.
thismonstrata wrote:
Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.
But, why do we need to make 2 things, just make a rule that is providing an exception, potential also is not the right word imo, that would cause people asking whether they can have song less than minute or not. Potential could mean remix, lowered BPM or loop.monstrata wrote:
Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.
but then we'd still have the issue of actual full length songs that are just above one minute but cant achive 1 minute full drain time. Thats why I'm saying, this should only apply to cuts made by the mapper.Wafu wrote:
But, why do we need to make 2 things, just make a rule that is providing an exception, potential also is not the right word imo, that would cause people asking whether they can have song less than minute or not. Potential could mean remix, lowered BPM or loop.monstrata wrote:
Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Official cuts = i.e. TV Size. Short Ver. provided by artist
I am not talking about official cuts. And if you want to include short songs, that I brought up (example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/301072),Wafu wrote:
It applies only to cuts made by mapper. "with an exception of official cuts"
Yes and no.Snaggletooth wrote:
How about:The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
"Hur dur, I hate short maps because they bring nothing to the game because Muh opinions > your opinions".tuddster wrote:
I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked.
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.Snaggletooth wrote:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
I'm not sure where you found that 85% mapped proposal but I have mapped and seen several maps with long intros that are quite unmappable or really doesn't need that much of it mapped. Further restrictions like that are bound to decrease quality of some songs. I might have misunderstood you but yehMercurial wrote:
Yes and no.Snaggletooth wrote:
How about:The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
Yes for what you said.
No for "Yeah, I've got this sweet song I do want to map but I don't to spend much time on it. Uhm, great idea! What about cutting off this 2:15 song to 1 minute or so? It's perfect!"
I'm okay with the "85% of the song mapped" option."Hur dur, I hate short maps because they bring nothing to the game because Muh opinions > your opinions".tuddster wrote:
I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked.
That kind of people.
Then I really think the word 'cut' is what strikes me odd here. I don't disagree with you, I think I misunderstood orWafu wrote:
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.
If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.
Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
Oh yeah, the 'with exceptions' means that all other cuts can be done, but must be 1 minute and aboveSnaggletooth wrote:
Then I really think the word 'cut' is what strikes me odd here. I don't disagree with you, I think I misunderstood orWafu wrote:
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.
If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.
Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
perhaps we misunderstood eachother.
When you say 'officially cut' songs, I think about TV sizes. I think about intros, I wanted to adress
short songs that have an intro, a vers, chourse and an outro in just above one minute. I thought that these
exceptionally short and full songs would be banned with this rule.