Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Other
  3. Off-Topic
  4. Forum Games
  5. Mafia

Mafia in Hoenn Region - Game Over

posted
Total Posts
1,151
show more
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki

Drezi wrote:

And the way Amianki resisted massclaim was so suspicious the first thing I thought was godfather when I saw the cop-inno, but I was like no way, I just gotta deal with it and accept I was wrong..
Did we play the same game?

I never mentioned massclaim at all until you asked me why I wasn't specifically suggesting we do so. Then when we actually did a mass claim, my first post of that day was my claim.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Oh yeah, i actually forgot about the fact that Navizel said that roles were made before alignments, that meant that godfather gave scum an auto win button.
Please dont ever do that, that'd be grounds for voiding wins on MS.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
I'm actually still confused as to why you thought I'd have suggested massclaim by that point anyway.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

Amianki wrote:

Drezi wrote:

And the way Amianki resisted massclaim was so suspicious the first thing I thought was godfather when I saw the cop-inno, but I was like no way, I just gotta deal with it and accept I was wrong..
Did we play the same game?

I never mentioned massclaim at all until you asked me why I wasn't specifically suggesting we do so. Then when we actually did a mass claim, my first post of that day was my claim.
I meant the way you brushed me off, when I asked you about it.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
That's weird; that conversation should've been the least scummy thing I did since I'm pretty sure I'd have said something at least very similar as town since those are my actual views on massclaiming.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

Amianki wrote:

I'm actually still confused as to why you thought I'd have suggested massclaim by that point anyway.
Because I quoted you saying you need to balance around it happening D1, which suggests it's something town should do ideally.

I have nearly no experience with massclaims myself, it looked like a good idea to me at that point, and I expected proper explanations as to why or why wouldn't it be a good idea.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
You also kind of brought it up out of nowhere and I couldn't understand why, so >_>
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Maybe it was a bad read on my part, but that's the impression the convo gave me.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Im not going to be harsh on navi tho, since it was his first time modding. I'm pretty sure he probably learned from all of this.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Also re: massclaim, if all scum can be caught with a massclaim on D1 then your setup's not good, that's why mods usually work around it, hence making a massclaim happening D1 pointless. Suggesting a massclaim D1 is assuming the mod fucked something up.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Yeah, even without having all the info I already did, I still would've came to the same conclusion just from the GIF stamp.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So basically amianki was caught for the wrong reasons ;)
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
No, I understand the D1 thing, but I'm asking about the massclaim at the time I suggested it, with already so many claimed roles and possibly confirmed towns, that would be the NK targets if true etc.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Completely null reasons, yes. Not like it went anywhere, but eh.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki
Actually, with how often I get scumread for reasons that make no sense to me, I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Maybe it has to do with you not realizing you're looking scummy, otherwise you'd be avoiding said things, zzz
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
The only fatal mod error i saw here was the "roles before alignments" statement with a godfather that gave scum an auto win button should the godfather be scanned by a cop, which is what happened. Really be more careful next time.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
As I said the way you refused to explain to me why my idea wouldn't be good and even used it as a reason to softpush me was what I had a problem with.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
And I'm actually still waiting for that since I honestly was not sure about it, and haven't really recieved a proper explanation. Sakura you can answer that too now.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Drezi wrote:

And I'm actually still waiting for that since I honestly was not sure about it, and haven't really recieved a proper explanation. Sakura you can answer that too now.
?
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Navizel

Sakura wrote:

Im not going to be harsh on navi tho, since it was his first time modding. I'm pretty sure he probably learned from all of this.
not even going to use my modding experience as an excuse but yes, I definitely learned from all of this.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Are we even talking about the same thing here?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
A massclaim should usually happen sometime along the line yes, usually by the time you'd be 1 day short of LyLo if all lynches land on town if not earlier, or when town assumes 1 scum remaining, since usually claiming roles and targets helps catch scum in a lie, as to why before LyLo? because that'll give town enough to make informed decissions on a single night based on the actual roles, or in case of CCs or whatever.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Of course a possibility of 6 deaths in a single night makes the setup way too swingy to be able to predict when will the best momment for a massclaim be.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
So what was wrong with me suspecting Amiaki over half assedly brushing off my idea without explaining why he thinks it's shit and he'd rather not, and going on to push me for trying to ask him all this?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Unless you're asking me for my reasons for scumreading amianki which was entirely meta related, and not related to your mass claim suggestion nor his reactions to it.
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki

Drezi wrote:

Maybe it has to do with you not realizing you're looking scummy, otherwise you'd be avoiding said things, zzz
That specific comment was regarding my town game, actually.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
He did explain why from what i remember, but your reasons for suspecting it was because of out of game related reasons of his statement about mods working around massclaims happening D1, from what i remember anyway.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
I just explained it for the third time, I think that it was not. That was only the reason I brought up the topic, and asked him about massclaim, and thought it might not be a bad idea at that time for us.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
huh, wasn't massclaim happening D3 anyway? D2 is usually not a good idea for a massclaim.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Oh btw Navi, if you need any help with your upick let me know.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Amianki: Design around massclaims D1.
Drezi: Whynot here D1?
Amianki: GIF setup cannot be broken.
Drezi: Oh ok.

Drezi: Whynot now, though considering we have farto eating NK prolly anyway, and a fair share of claims/softs having been outed already? Please explain if I'm wrong.
Amianki: I don't feel comfortable, don't ask me, you're scum.
Drezi: I think you are...
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Drezi wrote:

Amianki: Design around massclaims D1.
Drezi: Whynot here D1?
Amianki: GIF setup cannot be broken.
Drezi: Oh ok.

Drezi: Whynot now, though considering we have farto eating NK prolly anyway, and a fair share of claims/softs having been outed already? Please explain if I'm wrong.
Amianki: I don't feel comfortable, don't ask me, you're scum.
Drezi: I think you are...
Did the bolded really happen i don't remember it.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Along the course of several posts.

I condensed it in an exaggerated way to get my point and thought process across.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
could you link me to the post where it happened? I think you might be misinterpreting something but i could be wrong.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
p/4363129 starts from here until halfway through next page.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
p/4364057 + p/4364557 this two and three pages ahead.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Yeah i read up until the vote.

re: fartownik shouldn't claim - fartownik as confirmed town should be the only person that shouldn't claim at all unless he has info on scum, if he doesn't then there's no need to claim, for all scum knows he could've been a VT and wasted a kill on him because he was town, or have a powerful role and scum let him live because conf town with wrong reads, conf town doesnt always mean they'll die next night, but usually at some point along the line, in this case fartownik being 1-shot BP AND having wrong reads would ensured him living for a while if he had claimed unless scum wasted their strongman on him which i doubt they'd resort to if he had wrong reads.

There's never any real interest for town to know what roles the town has unless it can catch scum, the info at hand wasn't enough to require a massclaim at that point in time because all 3 scum were still living, and there was potential deadly roles for scum like Frostings.

Speaking of... Frostings, never claim being roleblocked if you're town unless your role is already outed, it doesnt help town catch scum because you have no info and you get a big Target mark on your back.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Tbf, the way you were asking for the massclaim did look more like scum trying to get information than town figuring out amianki's alignment.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Also a mistake i see people make all the time is assume that confirmed town are going to die next night. This isn't always the case, and also depends on the way they are confirmed. A confirmed town with wrong reads isn't an immediate threat to scum, although it obviously means they'll never get lynched so scum will eventually have to kill them.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
On another note, the cop role is OP as fuck, and you should always expect scum to have a counter to it in balanced setups, not necessarily a god father, but there could've been a redirector that caused a scan to target the wrong person. In a normal circumstance a cop says you're guilty and you're done for, there's no arguing nor claiming miller out of it.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
I thought scum not killing confirmed town because of claims wouldn't be too bad, and claims would've allowed safer hider checks + doctor was already dead anyway. I was also under the assumption that we all have roles on the weaker side (my own, tess being roleblocker) to avoid problems with scum vs town getting them.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Also I hate godfather and i'll always hate it, i always consider it a bastard role.

Related Story
I was once in a touhou upick game and i was a JOAT and one of my abilities was a cop, i used the cop ability on a scum godfather and that costed town the win to some extent, its not like town did too well in scumhunting anyway but still there could've been a scum lynch, after that game, the mod never used godfather again with the wise words "Godfather punishes good Town PR play"
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

fartownik wrote:

Couldn't you have motivated me knowing I had a used-up Bulletproof (it wasn't used-up, but it was implied from the lack of the nightkill n2) to bring it back and possibly save a confirmed Town's life?
My role said the target gets an extra ACTION the following night, I didn't think it works on passive BP?
Navizel
2,982 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Navizel
afaik it doesn't work on BP

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Motivator it also says here unless I misunderstood something again
Amianki
85 posts
Joined January 2011
Amianki

Drezi wrote:

Amianki: Design around massclaims D1.
Drezi: Whynot here D1?
Amianki: GIF setup cannot be broken.
Drezi: Oh ok.

Drezi: Whynot now, though considering we have farto eating NK prolly anyway, and a fair share of claims/softs having been outed already? Please explain if I'm wrong.
Amianki: I don't feel comfortable, don't ask me, you're scum.
Drezi: I think you are...
Just FYI, I don't think I've ever been the one to suggest a massclaim as either alignment before. If I did, it was only one or two games out of the dozens I've played.

Also, just because massclaim D1 can potentially break the game doesn't mean that it will break the game. I know GIF has enough experience modding to avoid the major traps of how it could break the game, so the chances of it being beneficial to town is virtually nil.
GuyInFreezer
0 posts
Joined June 2013
GuyInFreezer

Sakura wrote:

Oh yeah, i actually forgot about the fact that Navizel said that roles were made before alignments, that meant that godfather gave scum an auto win button.
Please dont ever do that, that'd be grounds for voiding wins on MS.
????

Since when?

Also I allowed godfather because town was too OP in the first place and I didn't wanted to totally destroy navi's setup goal.
And you should know by now that I don't consider godfather as bastard :P
GuyInFreezer
0 posts
Joined June 2013
GuyInFreezer

fartownik wrote:

Navizel wrote:

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/nVyx8FcaGrH
I'm pretty GiF actually THOUGHT you mean '1-shot Strongman' as in a factional kill-modifier, not a Vigilante. I think you misunderstood that role completely.
^
GuyInFreezer
0 posts
Joined June 2013
GuyInFreezer
Fwiw I tried really hard to get rid of poisoner/vig without ruining the setup
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

Navizel wrote:

Drezi wrote:

@mod: can we know if roles were assigned after alignments or not?
Roles were assigned before alignments. Roles cannot be used to determine alignment.
GuyInFreezer
0 posts
Joined June 2013
GuyInFreezer
Oh also navizel
next time give your reviewers access to mod PT.
it's a good practice in general and stuff like the strongman issue would've been averted easily.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1101 / 1,151