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Seriously why do we have to time the release of each hold note?

posted
Total Posts
52
41236
236 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
41236
Could someone explain the point doing that or is it just a thing from o2jam? It's REALLY weird and I believe many people do not like that way of judgement in o!m either.
Can't we just keep holding the note till the end(or even A LOT longer) and still get a MAX? We can do that with those sliders in Std and in other Bemani games, right? It'd be more fun and logical to only time the presses and NOT the releases, that way maybe osu! could also get even more players.
I've just decided to switch from Std to o!m and still have never played any Bemani game before so please forgive me if I'm wrong.
Tornspirit
251 posts
Joined January 2012
Tornspirit
Hold notes in this game count as two notes, a press and a release. That's sort of just how it is. I'm pretty sure beatmania also requires you to time releases, and with beatmania, o2jam, ez2dj, etc. all having that feature, that's just how it works.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Not like it could be changed now anyway
41236
236 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
41236

Tornspirit wrote:

Hold notes in this game count as two notes, a press and a release. That's sort of just how it is. I'm pretty sure beatmania also requires you to time releases, and with beatmania, o2jam, ez2dj, etc. all having that feature, that's just how it works.
apparently it's not required in Stepmania and FlashFlashRevolution and for sure it's not in osu! Standard.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Not like it could be changed now anyway
Why not? Making the game easier won't break the scoreboards, right?
Pinecone
151 posts
Joined February 2014
Pinecone
Actually you will break the scoreboards because people will have an unfair advantage in getting a high score then before.
So all we can say is deal with it I guess.
Tornspirit
251 posts
Joined January 2012
Tornspirit

41236 wrote:

Tornspirit wrote:

Hold notes in this game count as two notes, a press and a release. That's sort of just how it is. I'm pretty sure beatmania also requires you to time releases, and with beatmania, o2jam, ez2dj, etc. all having that feature, that's just how it works.
apparently it's not required in Stepmania and FlashFlashRevolution and for sure it's not in osu! Standard.
Stepmania and FFR are based on DDR. Having hold notes requiring a release on DDR is stupid because of how feet work, and that got carried over into the 4 arrow variants.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger

41236 wrote:

It'd be more fun and logical to only time the presses and NOT the releases
Uhm... how is that more logical? When you play... say a song on a real piano you cant just hold the note either can you?
41236
236 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
41236

-Hazelnut wrote:

Actually you will break the scoreboards because people will have an unfair advantage in getting a high score then before.
So all we can say is deal with it I guess.
So whenever a new better keyboard is made, the game is ruined?
People who are playing and will be playing ALL have that advantage so it's not unfair.

Tornspirit wrote:

Stepmania and FFR are based on DDR. Having hold notes requiring a release on DDR is stupid because of how feet work, and that got carried over into the 4 arrow variants.
Sorry I don't get your point.
akebono
615 posts
Joined August 2012
akebono
hurr, that's make the game more boring, hold note is fun because like piano, you release when it's time to release,
no release time ? boring note, go die

it's just like you ask "Seriously why do we have to time the release of each hold breath" loljk
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
It makes more rhythmical sense that way due to holding/releasing mattering on instruments, as previously stated. This has the side-effect of making certain slider patterns in autoconvert maps absolute garbage to play (since said maps are based around being able to hold sliders/spinners as long as you want) but that's what mania specific maps are for.
Kaeru
302 posts
Joined February 2013
Kaeru
In my eyes, it's only the primitive rhythm games that don't have this. I can agree that it does feel odd for DDR though, and there was really no need to add it to Stepmania because not everyone plays with the keyboard. It would have been pointless to put it in FFR because Stepmania already lacked it and everyone was used to not having to time releases already.
41236
236 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
41236
Why is there no one on my side? It'd be ABSOLUTELY illogical to keep the game like that. Let's think of each individual note as a hold note. We can because they're basically the same with different amounts of time holding the key down. No matter how fast we are, once we press a key, we actually hold it down a little before releasing it. With each individual note, you can just press the according key when the note crosses the judgement row without releasing the key and get a MAX, right? And my question is that why we can't do the same with a hold note.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
quite a lot of rhythm games have this implemented as well, and it's one of those things that prevents you from spamming, though obviously much less so in this case. Point is that the map was created in such a way that you aren't supposed to be holding that note for days (since it's generally following something). So if there aren't any notes in that column and the hold note notes, you can theoretically hold that note for the whole song, which imo is technically not meant to be that way (obviuosly there won't be 1 note in a column for a whole song but you know what I mean).

there are similar things that you can do in osu like holding z down the whole time and pressing x to hit notes to prevent certain types of slider breaks from happening, which is technically not how it's supposed to be played, but there's nothing to prevent that. But here, there is a sort of prevention barrier.

And I don't think that many people dislike this feature as much as you think. It's just how the game is meant to be played as designed by the creator.
Last edited by winber1 , edited 1 time in total.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

winber1 wrote:

there are similar things that you can do in osu like holding z down the hole time and pressing x to hit notes to prevent certain types of slider breaks from happening
holy shit
thank you for this trick i just tried it on a map with a lot of asshole overlap sliders/repeats.

i hate sliders so much. if the game was nothing but streams and jumps with circles i would lose no sleep
41236
236 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
41236

winber1 wrote:

quite a lot of rhythm games have this implemented as well, and it's one of those things that prevents you from spamming, though obviously much less so in this case. Point is that the map was created in such a way that you aren't supposed to be holding that note for days (since it's generally following something). So if there aren't any notes in that column and the hold note notes, you can theoretically hold that note for the whole song, which imo is technically not meant to be that way (obviuosly there won't be 1 note in a column for a whole song but you know what I mean).

there are similar things that you can do in osu like holding z down the hole time and pressing x to hit notes to prevent certain types of slider breaks from happening, which is technically not how it's supposed to be played, but there's nothing to prevent that. But here, there is a sort of prevention barrier.
Anyone can hold the notes however they want, that kind of spamming doesn't help them score better either.
That trick can only apply to osu! because z and x are the same.

winber1 wrote:

And I don't think that many people dislike this feature as much as you think. It's just how the game is meant to be played as designed by the creator.
Because I like this game, want it to be a better game so that I can enjoy it more or maybe I'm an extreme case of OCD and autism.
Individual notes and hold notes all have pressing, holding and releasing. Why do ONLY the releasing parts of individual notes play no part in judgement?
Last edited by 41236 , edited 2 times in total.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
whoops, im dumb
but so is this idea. seems like a poor substitute for learning how to play.

this is also the wrong forum if you want it to change, 4

"autistics"? lolenglish
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 70 times in total.
41236
236 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
41236

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

osu doesnt have hold notes and you havent even played osu in the past 3 months. are you sure you didnt wander in from the Hexis forums by accident?

Unless you're still talking about Mania [which you seem to have zero plays of], in which case, disregard this post.
So what is it called, slider spinner LN whatever it's JUST A NAME, people who have posted here (including youself) all know what I'm talking about.
Autistics should stop taking things too literally like that.
Chipmunk42
13 posts
Joined March 2014
Chipmunk42

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

osu doesnt have hold notes and you havent even played osu in the past 3 months. are you sure you didnt wander in from the Hexis forums by accident?

Unless you're still talking about Mania [which you seem to have zero plays of], in which case, disregard this post.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
i was confused by the talk of standard and the thread creator bitching about a mode he's never even played. I probably should have looked up there sooner before my second post.

It's fixed now.
Pinecone
151 posts
Joined February 2014
Pinecone

41236 wrote:

-Hazelnut wrote:

Actually you will break the scoreboards because people will have an unfair advantage in getting a high score then before.
So all we can say is deal with it I guess.
So whenever a new better keyboard is made, the game is ruined?
People who are playing and will be playing ALL have that advantage so it's not unfair.
First of all, you completely misunderstood my post. If you're going to argue with people, at least understand what they're saying first.

Secondly, "So whenever a new better keyboard is made, the game is ruined?" I don't even know what you mean here. What does keyboard have anything to do with the scoring system?

Lastly, yeah of course everyone has the same advantage after you implement that system. Don't try to reply with a blatant answer. What I meant to say was people who already played the song before implementing the new hold system will have a disadvantage to people who play the same song after it gets implemented. Of course, there could be a way around this, I'm going to ask how.
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