I started reading The Origin of Conciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind and I'm looking for other good reads on philosophy. I'm looking for reads that have their basis in Epistemology and Metaphysics (relating to consciousness).

Thanks!

idk, most philosophers crossreference each other, you can look at the influences or references of that book you just read and read it

assuming this was posted in good faith and isn't a thinly veiled humble brag about the fact that you can actually read a book, I doubt you're going to get any personalized recommendations on the subject of metaphysics from an anime rhythm game message board
I'll be at a public library today tho so I'll make sure to ask one of the librarians there and I'll let you know

would it be sufficiently ironic to tell you to ask chatgpt lol

Read Das Kapital! Overthrow those filthy capitalists! For Bread🍞 Land🏡 and Peace☮️!

Tractactus logico-philosophicus is pretty good
Only one ive read and it was years ago so no more recommendations here lul

xch00F wrote:

assuming this was posted in good faith and isn't a thinly veiled humble brag about the fact that you can actually read a book, I doubt you're going to get any personalized recommendations on the subject of metaphysics from an anime rhythm game message board
I'll be at a public library today tho so I'll make sure to ask one of the librarians there and I'll let you know

would it be sufficiently ironic to tell you to ask chatgpt lol

Funny you should mention ChatGPT because I reference it all the time when reading. It has allowed me to reading beyond my level by making it very easy to understand complex vocabulary. So it's a really good resource. But when it comes to recommendations and advice... I find it's responses to be very, very bland. It's certainly a much better database to break down information than an archive of lived experience it can draw from for recommendations.

Dementedduck wrote:

Tractactus logico-philosophicus is pretty good
Only one ive read and it was years ago so no more recommendations here lul

I'll have to check this out! This has some overlap with the current chapter I'm reading. Consciousness and how it facilitates learning but can hinder certain aspects of learning such as conditioning and flow state. Which closely related to consciously learning a language, written or spoken, and actually performing the writing and speaking.

Patatitta wrote:

idk, most philosophers crossreference each other, you can look at the influences or references of that book you just read and read it

Most, if not all of the references are from studies/results of experiments they are using to try and provide evidence for their claims. But I will definitely be on the lookout for similar authors.

NissingMo wrote:

xch00F wrote:

assuming this was posted in good faith and isn't a thinly veiled humble brag about the fact that you can actually read a book, I doubt you're going to get any personalized recommendations on the subject of metaphysics from an anime rhythm game message board
I'll be at a public library today tho so I'll make sure to ask one of the librarians there and I'll let you know

would it be sufficiently ironic to tell you to ask chatgpt lol

Funny you should mention ChatGPT because I reference it all the time when reading. It has allowed me to reading beyond my level by making it very easy to understand complex vocabulary. So it's a really good resource. But when it comes to recommendations and advice... I find it's responses to be very, very bland. It's certainly a much better database to break down information than an archive of lived experience it can draw from for recommendations.

So basically you let ChatGPT digest some parts of the text for you. Is ChatGPT unbiased enough to summarise stuff for you? Or how can you know whether it skip some bits here and there when it summarises to you.

Jangsoodlor wrote:

NissingMo wrote:

xch00F wrote:

assuming this was posted in good faith and isn't a thinly veiled humble brag about the fact that you can actually read a book, I doubt you're going to get any personalized recommendations on the subject of metaphysics from an anime rhythm game message board
I'll be at a public library today tho so I'll make sure to ask one of the librarians there and I'll let you know

would it be sufficiently ironic to tell you to ask chatgpt lol

Funny you should mention ChatGPT because I reference it all the time when reading. It has allowed me to reading beyond my level by making it very easy to understand complex vocabulary. So it's a really good resource. But when it comes to recommendations and advice... I find it's responses to be very, very bland. It's certainly a much better database to break down information than an archive of lived experience it can draw from for recommendations.

So basically you let ChatGPT digest some parts of the text for you. Is ChatGPT unbiased enough to summarise stuff for you? Or how can you know whether it skip some bits here and there when it summarises to you.

No, it's more like when they use a word like phylogenetics, monism, protoplasm... you get the idea. I don't really have a background in biology or psychology. So a lot of the fundamental concepts and terminology are beyond me. So something like chatGPT helps give me a low-res idea I can grasp to help me understand some of the passages that are more jargon heavy.

So understanding the literature is completely up to my experience with it and ChatGPT is just a reference to help me understand the jargon.

why not use a regular dictionary?, just google x definition

Patatitta wrote:

why not use a regular dictionary?, just google x definition

I mean the differences are pretty negligible, but ChatGPT can also provide a higher-res explaination if I need it and it is all in one place. Google may give me a dictionary definition that may actually use more field-related jargon that can still confuse me and at that point I'm in the rabbit hole of vocabulary that ChatGPT helps me sift through quicker.

Dictionaries are a good reference, but I would rather use ChatGPT because it's more concise in it's delivery and I don't have to go too far out of my way when i'm really just trying to sit and read.

idk, it's just that reading books that are WAY out of your level, without the base needed to really understand it, and relying on AI in order to actually understand them seems strange

Patatitta wrote:

idk, it's just that reading books that are WAY out of your level, without the base needed to really understand it, and relying on AI in order to actually understand them seems strange

I wouldn't say this is beyond my comprehension. Most philosophy books are a slow burn, they start with a thesis and then start layering their argument with a lot of examples and experiments to prove their claim. It takes some patience, but it's fairly reasonable for your average person to grasp the concepts, the only roadblock is the technical jargon, but as I said, a low-res understanding of the jargon itself is usually enough to grasp the concept that is being presented.

At the same time, I'm picking up a lot of tidbits from ChatGPT about the etymology of some of these words. So it really enhances my reading experience. As long as you stick to basic definitions and don't ask ChatGPT andything too complicated, I think it's something I would highly recommend trying. There's nothing more daunting than reading the first paragraph of a book and it has 3 - 4 words you don't recognize.

I think it's really cool that modern technology can enhance my experience with something that I already enjoy.

Patatitta wrote:

why not use a regular dictionary?, just google x definition

a dictionary does not spit out human looking output when you ask it for a more robust definition of a term. it doesn't spit out anything, actually, it just gives you a base level definition and then you have to spend time looking up other resources that explain the subject further
chatgpt is trained on shitloads of academic and scientific literature, if you know how to ask for information (prompt engineering) you get far more verbosity than a simple dictionary is capable of and you get it immediately in real time. a lot of ppl complain about the "sanitary" responses that chatgpt gives you but in cases like this, sanitized output is helpful. it doesn't call you an idiot like redditors would for asking questions either

xch00F wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

why not use a regular dictionary?, just google x definition

a dictionary does not spit out human looking output when you ask it for a more robust definition of a term. it doesn't spit out anything, actually, it just gives you a base level definition and then you have to spend time looking up other resources that explain the subject further
chatgpt is trained on shitloads of academic and scientific literature, if you know how to ask for information (prompt engineering) you get far more verbosity than a simple dictionary is capable of and you get it immediately in real time. a lot of ppl complain about the "sanitary" responses that chatgpt gives you but in cases like this, sanitized output is helpful

I think you guys are making dictionaries look WAY WORSE than they are, I've read book, and i've had to google words, and I have never really faced any problem, I don't fucking need prompt engineering to find what some technical words mean

sorry for making you mad bub lol

xch00F wrote:

sorry for making you mad bub lol

nah i'm not angry, I just usually type like that over the internet

Patatitta wrote:

xch00F wrote:

sorry for making you mad bub lol

nah i'm not angry, I just usually type like that over the internet

thanks for making that post anyway because it's rly good example of the kinda shit I mean when I say "it doesn't call you an idiot like redditors would for asking questions either"
you should drop your gimmick when you're responding to ppl expressing a genuine interest in learning about the world around them

xch00F wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

xch00F wrote:

sorry for making you mad bub lol

nah i'm not angry, I just usually type like that over the internet

thanks for making that post anyway because it's rly good example of the kinda shit I mean when I say "it doesn't call you an idiot like redditors would for asking questions either"
you should drop your gimmick when you're responding to ppl expressing a genuine interest in learning about the world around them

it's not a gimmick?, I unironically just hold that opinion and I wanted to talk about it, it's just that over the internet I usually word things strongly, it just comes out natural

grace is just as important as strength

xch00F wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

why not use a regular dictionary?, just google x definition

a dictionary does not spit out human looking output when you ask it for a more robust definition of a term. it doesn't spit out anything, actually, it just gives you a base level definition and then you have to spend time looking up other resources that explain the subject further
chatgpt is trained on shitloads of academic and scientific literature, if you know how to ask for information (prompt engineering) you get far more verbosity than a simple dictionary is capable of and you get it immediately in real time. a lot of ppl complain about the "sanitary" responses that chatgpt gives you but in cases like this, sanitized output is helpful. it doesn't call you an idiot like redditors would for asking questions either

I do enjoy the “organic” feel the delivery of the information has. But most importantly, I think it’s the fastest way that I facilitate my understanding of the material. And I think that fluidity and flow of knowledge (or at least the perception of it) really helps me enjoy learning more.

NissingMo wrote:

xch00F wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

why not use a regular dictionary?, just google x definition

a dictionary does not spit out human looking output when you ask it for a more robust definition of a term. it doesn't spit out anything, actually, it just gives you a base level definition and then you have to spend time looking up other resources that explain the subject further
chatgpt is trained on shitloads of academic and scientific literature, if you know how to ask for information (prompt engineering) you get far more verbosity than a simple dictionary is capable of and you get it immediately in real time. a lot of ppl complain about the "sanitary" responses that chatgpt gives you but in cases like this, sanitized output is helpful. it doesn't call you an idiot like redditors would for asking questions either

I do enjoy the “organic” feel the delivery of the information has. But most importantly, I think it’s the fastest way that I facilitate my understanding of the material. And I think that fluidity and flow of knowledge (or at least the perception of it) really helps me enjoy learning more.

I think ppl also severely underestimate how immensely helpful a tool capable of synchronous communication is
if you're in the moment the last thing you wanna do is post a question on a forum and wait

Each to their own I guess. I personally prefer having a paper dictionary beside me when reading, because I tend to get very distracted, very easily.

Ymir wrote:

Each to their own I guess. I personally prefer having a paper dictionary beside me when reading, because I tend to get very distracted, very easily.

Your optimal experience is personal to you, same goes for everyone. What’s important is that you feel that you are in an environment that facilitates your learning.

you're not smart.

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

The hope is to become a little wiser at the end of the day.

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

I AM VERY SMART

kinda off-topic but what do you think about marxist-leninist-stalinist-maoist philosophers?

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

I AM VERY SMART

kinda off-topic but what do you think about marxist-leninist-stalinist-maoist philosophers?

I don’t know if I have a qualified opinion outside of what I’ve been told by other people. And what I’ve been told is that the philosophies of Marx and post-modern iterations address very real and very terrible problems but don’t scale well as an overarching structure for society.

This is an uninformed opinion. And hopefully someday, I can familiarize myself with many different philosophies so I can form my own opinion on these loaded topics.

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

le funny projection meme

xch00F wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

le funny projection meme

yeah when I was 14 I also tried to sound smart by using fancy words, was cringe af

Polyspora wrote:

xch00F wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

le funny projection meme

yeah when I was 14 I also tried to sound smart by using fancy words, was cringe af

For the fancy words I’m not smart enough to understand… I have ChatGPT

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

I AM VERY SMART

kinda off-topic but what do you think about marxist-leninist-stalinist-maoist philosophers?

I am literally chairman mao irl

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

I didn’t know that these forums were even moderated. I’m new-ish to the community and forum.

NissingMo wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

I didn’t know that these forums were even moderated. I’m new-ish to the community and forum.

dw sometimes they feel like they aren't, don't check OT rn in fact

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

you're not smart.

I AM VERY SMART

kinda off-topic but what do you think about marxist-leninist-stalinist-maoist philosophers?

young people bait

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

xch00F wrote:

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

well, in this case that's still the best case scenario for you guys (no actual punishment).

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

xch00F wrote:

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

well, in this case that's still the best case scenario for you guys (no actual punishment).

so uh what rule did we break? and sorry I prefer to actually understand what is happening and being punished than having my posts deleted without a notice like its 1984

Polyspora wrote:

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

xch00F wrote:

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

well, in this case that's still the best case scenario for you guys (no actual punishment).

so uh what rule did we break? and sorry I prefer to actually understand what is happening and being punished than having my posts deleted without a notice like its 1984

...
wiki/en/Rules#forum-wide-rules
it's really not that hard, and pretty questionable you're trying to create trouble out of basically nothing, so feel free to stop that.

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

xch00F wrote:

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

well, in this case that's still the best case scenario for you guys (no actual punishment).

so uh what rule did we break? and sorry I prefer to actually understand what is happening and being punished than having my posts deleted without a notice like its 1984

...
wiki/en/Rules#forum-wide-rules
it's really not that hard, and pretty questionable you're trying to create trouble out of basically nothing, so feel free to stop that.

uuh create trouble? what is your problem? what does that even mean? I was having a discussion with the guy who has been acting like quite the asshole lately, and its not even the first time this type of shit happens lmao. back 6 or 8 months ago a user told me to kill myself and other shit like that, and I was the only one who got muted in that mess, even though I was no saint I would hope if a mute was necessary it would fall for both.
being sincere its quite frustrating

you can mute me now for "causing trouble" I guess, bet your hand is itchy already.
I have nothing to add to this anymore

Polyspora wrote:

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

xch00F wrote:

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

well, in this case that's still the best case scenario for you guys (no actual punishment).

so uh what rule did we break? and sorry I prefer to actually understand what is happening and being punished than having my posts deleted without a notice like its 1984

...
wiki/en/Rules#forum-wide-rules
it's really not that hard, and pretty questionable you're trying to create trouble out of basically nothing, so feel free to stop that.

uuh create trouble? what is your problem? what does that even mean? I was having a discussion with the guy who has been acting like quite the asshole lately, and its not even the first time this type of shit happens lmao. back 6 or 8 months ago a user told me to kill myself and other shit like that, and I was the only one who got muted in that mess, even though I was no saint I would hope if a mute was necessary it would fall for both.
being sincere its quite frustrating

you can mute me now for "causing trouble" I guess, bet your hand is itchy already.
I have nothing to add to this anymore

He is literally chairman mao irl
Edit: also so many of those rules are broken daily and consistently lol
Just depends on the moderator who sees it and if they decide to care

hello my dudes and dudettes, special kudos to the OP for bringing up such a topic

i have a wonderful recommendation for you, albeit not exactly what was originally requested.

meet VLADIMIR SOROKIN, a contemporary russian post-modernist writer. in his earlier books he explores and deconstructs idols and cliches, be it literary or cultural. his most iconic composition choice involves starting a text normally, maybe too normally, and then contaminating it with physicalities and pure absurd. his texts often morph into chains of obscenities, vulgarities or literal random chains of letter. some (if not most) of his works contain gruesome and disgusting scenes, so only read him if you're old enough and prepared for that.

this recommendation comes not from my strong urge to perform a little hooliganry (although it played some role in it), but by strong association with him while reading this thread

in particular, this thread reminds me of his work THE NORM, and its 8th chapter in particular. it starts with a usual work meet-up at your casual ussr newspaper, where the journalists discuss their next issue, and the text quickly devolves into absurd and nonsensical chains of letters, with occasional meaningful words here and there.

so, dear xch00F, Polyspora and who had joined them Dementedduck, please don't be like sorokin's characters.

have a good rest of your day!

even duck got hit by the GMT's bullshit lmao, ngl this thread is starting to stink

anyway uh, Kudou Chitose thats cool and all but it really doesnt answer anything I asked, can any of the gmts stop acting so pretentiously and give direct answers (or any answers at all)?

here, I'll make them more clear if it went unnoticed:

1. why were the messages deleted/ what rule did we break
2. why werent we notified about our silly mistakes? to not repeat them or whatever
3. what happened here (shit its wastelanded) forget about this one
4. is there communication at all inside the GMT discord server besides the gossip of players you dislike?

community rule 3&4 and forum rule 3

- Felix wrote:

community rule 3&4 and forum rule 3

thanks

you can go now complain once more that "OT is leaking" to your buds idk

Polyspora wrote:

anyway uh, Kudou Chitose thats cool and all but it really doesnt answer anything I asked, can any of the gmts stop acting so pretentiously and give direct answers (or any answers at all)?

i didn't mean to answer to any of that, i meant to point at you starting a shitshow out of nowhere and acting clueless when this shitshow gets deleted. you can pretend that you don't understand anything all you want, it doesn't really matter.

i don't care if you guys are having beef or being flirtatious or whatever, it's not relevant to anything that had happened in the thread before, and nobody really cares about you two's relationship. and your past irrelevant conversations of similar nature might've not been deleted because people who read that didn't care enough to even report that, and the mods lurking in the shadows missed the delete button due to rolling their eyes. that's just a theory, though

and your tone in all of this doesn't do you a favour either. acting all smug and arrogant usually makes others avoid you like a plague of annoyance, or respond to you in a similar fashion

since felix responded to the first question, i'll answer the three other ones

-> 2. why werent we notified about our silly mistakes? to not repeat them or whatever

you were in the second lyawi's message. and again, you clearly know why it happened, but just decided to be scandalous for the sake of it

-> 3. what happened here (shit its wastelanded) forget about this one

it's not? genuinely don't know what it refers to

-> 4. is there communication at all inside the GMT discord server besides the gossip of players you dislike?
-> you can go now complain once more that "OT is leaking" to your buds idk

passive aggressive self-contradictory bingo! if you really enjoy yourself acting like this, don't expect anyone to tolerate your bullshit. next time you get slapped for doing stuff, don't wait
to continue the thread with your complaints and proceed straight to community rule number 4, because you're probably not really a good-will actor in all of that

uh that was a really confusing and low reply, this is getting weird and to be honest it has been some hours by now, I'm not really interested in this anymore since its going nowhere

so I guess you're the winner chicken dinner nice

Lyawi wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

jesus the mods here dont even give you a warning lmao

xch00F wrote:

lmao did you get a post deleted too
I thought I was going crazy

well, in this case that's still the best case scenario for you guys (no actual punishment).

yeah that's fine but if you feel the need to delete a post of mine for whatever reason, could I at least get a notification about it? you don't have to worry about me getting mad and making some trite 1984 reference. it's especially annoying to have no record of what the post was when the people involved start responding like this

Polyspora wrote:

uuh create trouble? what is your problem? what does that even mean? I was having a discussion with the guy who has been acting like quite the asshole lately, and its not even the first time this type of shit happens lmao. back 6 or 8 months ago a user told me to kill myself and other shit like that

the implication that whatever I posted was even remotely as mean as telling some random user to kill themself is a really bad look lol

Kudou Chitose wrote:

hello my dudes and dudettes, special kudos to the OP for bringing up such a topic

i have a wonderful recommendation for you, albeit not exactly what was originally requested.

meet VLADIMIR SOROKIN, a contemporary russian post-modernist writer. in his earlier books he explores and deconstructs idols and cliches, be it literary or cultural. his most iconic composition choice involves starting a text normally, maybe too normally, and then contaminating it with physicalities and pure absurd. his texts often morph into chains of obscenities, vulgarities or literal random chains of letter. some (if not most) of his works contain gruesome and disgusting scenes, so only read him if you're old enough and prepared for that.

this recommendation comes not from my strong urge to perform a little hooliganry (although it played some role in it), but by strong association with him while reading this thread

in particular, this thread reminds me of his work THE NORM, and its 8th chapter in particular. it starts with a usual work meet-up at your casual ussr newspaper, where the journalists discuss their next issue, and the text quickly devolves into absurd and nonsensical chains of letters, with occasional meaningful words here and there.

so, dear xch00F, Polyspora and who had joined them Dementedduck, please don't be like sorokin's characters.

have a good rest of your day!

I'll have to check it out. I actually just finished reading a screen write by Albert Camus, a notable absurdist. I think that the dramatizations of philosophical literature is a really cool way to anthropomorphize the concepts. So I really enjoy this style of communication! It also helps me feel less like i'm reading a proof paper as well.

Nausea by Jean Paul Sartre might be up your alley